Does this make sense? [discs/pads]

gerdalt

I get the car serviced about 9 months ago and they tell me the front discs need new pads. I agree and they do the work.

I bring it back today for another service. They tell me the front discs are 'lipped' and should be replaced. And if they do the work they must also replace the pads!!

Sound genuine or a con? Lipped?

Gerry

CJhaughey

All discs have a wear limit, it will be stamped on the disc, they don't have to be worn very much to be outside the limits.
Maybe 9 months ago they were OK, now the are worn out.
Brakes do wear in use.
They should be reasonably priced, discs are not expensive usually depending on make and model.

cruizer101

I think OP was more questioning about having to replace the pads again since they were only changed last year.
I wouldn't have thought they necessarily need to be replaced I think it might be good practice,, but I could be wrong someone more knowledgeable will be along I'm sure.

gerdalt

Thanks for those comments.
But if I get new discs must I also replace the pads - even tho' they are only 9 months in use?

Gerry

zinzan

It's best (and safest) practice to change pads also when changing discs - the old pads will have been shaped by the lip on the disc so you won't get full surface contact using old pads on new discs. It will also increase the speed at which the new discs are lipped if you start off with previously worn pads.

Out of interest, what car is it, what's the mileage and how old is it?

gerdalt

Thanks for that. It's a 2006 Corolla Verso with 75K miles.

What exactly is 'lipped' ??

G.

mobfromcork

Have a quick google image of 'lipped brake disc'. It's normally best practice to replace both discs and pads, especially if the discs are badly worn. If you are doing the job yourself it doesn't work out too expensive. 9 months is a relatively short space of time to have to change pads again alright.

cletus

the lip at the inner and outer edge is what they are referring to.

gerdalt

AH, yes, Google - good thinking
All is now clear - a picture is worth a thousand words!!
G.

P.S. Quote from fast Fit is €260. Sound reasonable?

nc19

gerdalt wrote: »

Thanks for that. It's a 2006 Corolla Verso with 75K miles.

What exactly is 'lipped' ??

G.

The vast majority of pads are not the exact same size as the face of the discs

in other words, if the face of the disc is 60mm then the pad may only be 55mm which means the remaining 2.5mm on either side of the pad will never wear creating the lip.

most discs have a lifespan of 2/3mm and you would generally get 3 sets of pads out of 1 set of discs (in general - im sure some of you find differently)

nc19

gerdalt wrote: »

AH, yes, Google - good thinking
All is now clear - a picture is worth a thousand words!!
G.

P.S. Quote from fast Fit is €260. Sound reasonable?

That would work out to 80 for each disc supply and fit and 80 for the pads supply and fit with the warranty they provide

mobfromcork

Without tarring them all with one brush and no disrespect to the competent people who work in them, my personal experience of FastFit garages wouldn't be great. I have been advised that I needed to change pads when I was changing my tyres in one branch in Dublin and I had only changed the pads myself a few months previous to that. There was at least 60-70% life left in them. Maybe get another opinion from an indy garage.

I'm not sure about the price quoted as I've always done the discs and pads myself. Parts can vary in price but I don't drive a performance car so I usually don't need high end parts like Galfer or EBC brake discs. I think I paid around 80 euro for a pair of front discs and maybe 30-35 for pads. Pretty sure yours would be in and around the same.

CJhaughey

You could buy a set of pads and discs for around 100E online and pay an independent to fit them.
Its not rocket science and 160 for labour seems a tad excessive.

Interslice

edit: Sorry read OP wrong .

They should probably have changed the discs with the pads last time though.

toyotaavensis

OP, I would suggest you get a second opinion as the garage could be chancers.
Where abouts are you based?
Definitely change pads when doing discs.

By the way my 03 avensis with 120000 miles on the clock is still on the original discs so unless you drive hard I am surprised they need to be changed this soon.

gerdalt

HHHmmmmmm now I am wondering if this really is a DIY job.
As has been said, it looks like €120 will more than cover cost of parts.
Does the quality of the parts matter much - I mean is there much quality variation in what is being sold?
The prices seem to vary a lot. Should I stick to well known brand names? Recommendations for reliable brands?
I am handy at DIY but have never tackled the pads or discs on a car.
Youtube videos make it look easy.
Will have to think about it.
G.

mickdw

No way should you end up in the situation where discs are f*cked and pads only mid life.
When you needed pads last time, they should have checked if there was enough life left in disc to safely see out that set of pads. So you should either have got discs and pads last time or they should be good enough to see out this set of pads. They are wasting your money by fitting pads for you and then when the pads are only slightly worn telling you that you need discs. If this is the same garage all the time, I would tell them straight that they are messing you around.

Interslice

gerdalt wrote: »

HHHmmmmmm now I am wondering if this really is a DIY job.
As has been said, it looks like €120 will more than cover cost of parts.
Does the quality of the parts matter much - I mean is there much quality variation in what is being sold?
The prices seem to vary a lot. Should I stick to well known brand names? Recommendations for reliable brands?
I am handy at DIY but have never tackled the pads or discs on a car.
Youtube videos make it look easy.
Will have to think about it.
G.

DIY it sure. Get high quality parts instead of the crap they're gonna fit and be better off all round . 2hours a side tops if you have all the tools and every thing you need. A battery drill with a brass wire wheel on it to clean up all the surfaces will speed things up.

I normally use ATE pads and discs.

gerdalt

Thank you to all who replied.

Gerry.

nc19

toyotaavensis wrote: »

By the way my 03 avensis with 120000 miles on the clock is still on the original discs so unless you drive hard I am surprised they need to be changed this soon.

What is the min thickness of your discs and what are they at now?

toyotaavensis

It is 23mm on the front and 9mm on the back. It was at 26 on the front last time i checked (a few months ago) on the front. I didnt measure the back at the time as they looked safely more than 9.

I am very light on brakes. I have the same pads for the last 30000 miles on the front and they are about half way gone. I drive a lot on national roads where i am not hard on the brakes.

nc19

toyotaavensis wrote: »

It is 23mm on the front and 9mm on the back. It was at 26 on the front last time i checked (a few months ago) on the front. I didnt measure the back at the time as they looked safely more than 9.

I am very light on brakes. I have the same pads for the last 30000 miles on the front and they are about half way gone. I drive a lot on national roads where i am not hard on the brakes.

if they have worn 3mm i can promise you they are beyond the min thickness

min thickness for a toyota avensis with a start off thickness of 26mm is 24mm

mickdw

nc19 wrote: »

if they have worn 3mm i can promise you they are beyond the min thickness

min thickness for a toyota avensis with a start off thickness of 26mm is 24mm

Audi quote similar wear limits. I thought it quite interesting though when looking into Changing my discs that the oe disc supplier quoted twice as much wear as audi as the allowable amount. This was for the specific disc as fitted by audi from factory. Now I realise that this disc type might well be factory fit on other cars and as such it is possible that the audi specified wear limit relates to that specific application but to me specifying half the wear that the disc manufacturer states il amounts to a bit of a rip off. I believe bmw now fit new discs with all pad changes on all models above 3 series.

CJhaughey

mickdw wrote: »

I believe bmw now fit new discs with all pad changes on all models above 3 series.

Typical manufacturer rip. Unless the pads are made of stone and the discs are cheese the discs should last much longer than that.

creedp

CJhaughey wrote: »

Typical manufacturer rip. Unless the pads are made of stone and the discs are cheese the discs should last much longer than that.

Interesting reading this. I am getting the car serviced today. Full service including fuel and air filters. I got a call at lunchtime saying I needed front brakes done - pads and discs. The car has 86k miles done as it on original pads and discs. The rear ones were done almost 2 year ago which I didn't understand at the time as I would have thought front would go first. Anyway I am now surprised that the discs need changing - I would have thought the discs should last for 2 sets of pads but I've been told that there is a significant lip in the inner side of the discs and they must be changed - €280 all in. Is this unusual?

I've also been told that my timing belt require replacing - 08 2l TDCi Ford s-max. I always thought the timing belt lasted longer on the 2l - I knew they were problematic on the 1.8l. Does anyone know what the safe mileage/time frame is for the time belt on this car? I could do without the €400 plus cost on top of the €480 service plus brake replacement especially as the insurance renewal is around the corner. Thanks

toyotaavensis

Is the garage a large chain by any chance?

creedp

toyotaavensis wrote: »

Is the garage a large chain by any chance?

Yes its has a number of branches or maybe more accurately franchises around Dublin. However, I'm not automatically questioning what is being said .. its just that I have never had to replace brake discs on a car before and have had several with over 100k miles .. I've had to change pads on a number of occassion but not discs. It of course might be something to do with fact the car is heavy, e.g. it eats through front tyres. Thanks

toyotaavensis

I would get a second opinion if in doubt.
Take a pic and post here if you want

mickdw

I get 25k miles from front pads and changed the discs at 75k miles so impossible to know what wear is like at that kind of mileage as its driver dependent really. It would be odd that discs would need changing with first set of pads but at that kind of mileage, its certainly worth having a good look at the brakes anyway.

creedp

mickdw wrote: »

I get 25k miles from front pads and changed the discs at 75k miles so impossible to know what wear is like at that kind of mileage as its driver dependent really. It would be odd that discs would need changing with first set of pads but at that kind of mileage, its certainly worth having a good look at the brakes anyway.

I had a look at the discs/pads yestereday evening and while the pads were well worn no doubt .. with 86k mile on them that hardly a surprise .. there was a fair lip on the discs so I suppose it was better all round to replace them. Having said that I did a quick check on the 'lip' on the rear disc and it wasn't much different. I'm still surprised that I got 86k miles from a front set of pads. Given that I have the car from 12k miles I can be pretty sure they haven't been changed unless they were changed during a service and the garage neglected to charge .. what are the chances!

Still not clear on the timing belt. I did a bit of googling and it seems the std for the 2L TCDi is 125k miles or 10 years. If this is the case is there any benefit to changing it so much sooner?

visual

Phone ford and get the recommended TB change interval from them.

It sometimes changes from what was stated from new.

I had a renault with service intervals of 18,000 miles but renault revised that over the years to 10,000 still didn't save the turbos but it was the new recommend interval.

Do the discs and pads yourself or get an indy to do them for you.

There has to be wear on brakes so if disc last a long time then the pads wear quickly if pads are lasting a long time then the disc is getting the wear. The heat and friction has to go somewhere.

creedp

visual wrote: »

Phone ford and get the recommended TB change interval from them.

It sometimes changes from what was stated from new.

I had a renault with service intervals of 18,000 miles but renault revised that over the years to 10,000 still didn't save the turbos but it was the new recommend interval.

Do the discs and pads yourself or get an indy to do them for you.

There has to be wear on brakes so if disc last a long time then the pads wear quickly if pads are lasting a long time then the disc is getting the wear. The heat and friction has to go somewhere.

It may well be that the pads were especially hard wearing and one set wore out the discs. Anyway its done now. It was an Indy that did the work. I know I could do it myself but I'm a bit nervous about messing with the brakes! Anything else will result in the car not going but fcuk up the brakes and trouble big time!! Maybe next time - and presumably I won't get 86k out of this set - I'll give it a go. My problem with doing random DIY jobs is that I rarely have all the correct tools and its a pain having to buy more tools that may only be used once every couple of years. Having said that €130 or so labour to change the discs/pads should more that cover the outlay meaning. other than parts, free changes from there on.

Will ring Ford about TB. Must also follow up on a known problem which involves brake pedal going hard resulting in little or no braking performance that seems to manifest itself first thing on cold mornings. It seems to relate to a faulty release valve in the servo. Its happenned to me on a couple of occasions and is quite unerving .. only solution at present is to stamp with all one strenght on pedal to get it stopped and switch off/on car which seems to solve the problem but there's always the possibility that it might occur when emergency braking is required. Ford dealers or at least the ones I have asked apparently know nothing about it but it has been fixed by Ford UK when brought the their attention.