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Pulling short putts

13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,695 ✭✭✭ForeRight


    All I said was I spiced a putt just as a figure of speech and it's turned into a science class in here


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,138 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    ForeRight wrote: »
    All I said was I spiced a putt just as a figure of speech and it's turned into a science class in here

    You definitely can't spice a putt ForeRight....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,695 ✭✭✭ForeRight


    Haha bloody iPhone typos are a curse


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,133 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    Look we had a paper there that hook spin is on a putt.

    that was my only argument.

    If this hook spin force is removed, a force has to be applied to remove that spin. It has to be an opposing force.

    Today i imparted side spin on 4 putts and every single one had a draw.
    Not good science , but Liverpool won , who cares.

    I loved an old masse in pool.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,349 ✭✭✭Wombatman


    True Roll: Our definition of true roll is the point were all skid had been eliminated from the golf ball's roll (the ball will rotate 360 degrees in the circumference of the golf ball approx. 5.25 inches). Even a 7 iron 'bump and run shot' will eventually achieve 100% true roll. Research undertaken at Quintic Consultancy Ltd, has shown that the sooner a ball achieves true roll, the more consistent the ball is at holding its intended path. For example, compare two putts of the same distance:

    Putt 1, 190 degrees forward rotation at 12 inches, 35 RPM of Cut spin:
    Putt 2, 165 degrees forward rotation at 12 inches, 2 RPM of hook spin:

    Which putt achieves True Roll the earliest?
    The answer, Putt 2. Side spin is detrimental when trying to maximize the point of 100% True Roll (no skid!). True roll is ultimately what the design of the putter and your stroke mechanics should be trying to achieve. The ideal true roll number is approximately 10% to 20% of the distance of the putt, depending on green speed. For example a 20ft putt should be able to achieve True Roll by 2ft (24 inches) on a fast, smooth surface...

    From: http://www.quinticballroll.com/Quintic_Ball_Roll_Applications.html


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,133 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    So we all agree now a putt can spin a ball . With hook or cut.

    Black is white. ?????


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,133 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    GreeBo wrote: »
    The argument is that DUE to friction you cant have spin. The friction causes the ball to grip the grass and thus the spin is lost. You get spin when you dont have friction, not when you do.

    Put another way, where is there more friction, between ball and putter face or ball and grass?
    To get spin you would need the friction between ball and putter face to impart so much spin that it survives the friction between the ball and the grass. I put it to you that this is impossible.

    So welcome back GreeBo


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,505 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Wombatman wrote: »

    That's the link I posted.

    What does 35rpm work out as on a 3 foot putt?
    Unless you are chipping the ball into the hole it's rolling in.
    For longer, harder hit putts the ball might have tiny spin coming off the ckubface but this is quickly lost a the ball stops hopping and rolls. Spin might account for less than 1 degree of movement of the ball on a putt. It's insignificant compared to face angle.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭Milkers


    Greebo you started off definitively stating "You cant physically slice or hook a putt". Then you later post a link to a machine that actually measures Cut and Hook spin on putts. Sometimes a simple admission you are wrong is better than the slow drawn-out, defensive, goalpost-shifting backdown.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 802 ✭✭✭m r c


    So welcome back GreeBo

    This, sighs


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,505 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Milkers wrote: »
    Greebo you started off definitively stating "You cant physically slice or hook a putt". Then you later post a link to a machine that actually measures Cut and Hook spin on putts. Sometimes a simple admission you are wrong is better than the slow drawn-out, defensive, goalpost-shifting backdown.

    Its a technical difference I'll agree, but once the ball is rolling on a putt its not spinning. If we include the time the ball is airborne during a putt then sure "you can spin the ball during a putt" albeit a tiny amount. But thats not slicing or hooking a putt. If the ball is spinning on a "hook axis" but the ball is travelling dead straight, did you hook it or not? I'd say no.

    Look at the maths, 20 foot putt takes how long, 5 seconds?
    Even at 50rpm, if we take that the ball is spinning for the full 5 seconds (which is impossible) it completes one whole revolution 4 times, on top of the normal "rolling" revolutions.

    In reality the ball spins for at most 1 second, so thats less than one revolution.
    Sure, extrapolating the numbers the ball is spinning. The reality is that its doing nothing to the result of the putt.

    Unless I've made a glaring mistake in my maths above?

    So going back to the original post, no, you didnt slice your 3 foot putt Foreright. You pushed it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,493 ✭✭✭Miley Byrne


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Its a technical difference I'll agree, but once the ball is rolling on a putt its not spinning. If we include the time the ball is airborne during a putt then sure "you can spin the ball during a putt" albeit a tiny amount. But thats not slicing or hooking a putt. If the ball is spinning on a "hook axis" but the ball is travelling dead straight, did you hook it or not? I'd say no.

    Look at the maths, 20 foot putt takes how long, 5 seconds?
    Even at 50rpm, if we take that the ball is spinning for the full 5 seconds (which is impossible) it completes one whole revolution 4 times, on top of the normal "rolling" revolutions.

    In reality the ball spins for at most 1 second, so thats less than one revolution.
    Sure, extrapolating the numbers the ball is spinning. The reality is that its doing nothing to the result of the putt.

    Unless I've made a glaring mistake in my maths above?

    So going back to the original post, no, you didnt slice your 3 foot putt Foreright. You pushed it.

    Dear God save me


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,505 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    denisoc16 wrote: »
    Dear God save me

    denisoc16, if you have nothing to add to the conversation then please feel free to add nothing.
    Otherwise you will be "saved" from this forum, this is not AH, thanks whoring is not appreciated.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 589 ✭✭✭Dealerz


    Wowwww!!
    Denis
    You never told me that was your profession down in esker hills, but good on ye and I hope business is keeping up 😜!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭Milkers


    GreeBo wrote: »
    You cant physically slice or hook a putt.

    Wrong.
    GreeBo wrote: »
    Putts arent hit hard enough to generate any spin that can survive the contact with the ground.

    Wrong.
    GreeBo wrote: »
    The whole topspin thing is a myth.

    Wrong.
    GreeBo wrote: »
    On a 3 foot putt, there is no spin.

    Wrong.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,505 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Milkers wrote: »
    Wrong.



    Wrong.



    Wrong.



    Wrong.

    I cant argue with any of the points you have used in your post to backup your assertions.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,133 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    Here is a quote from a study

    "Greater than 20 rpm of Cut or Hook spin is enough side spin to cause the golf ball to change its intended path (i.e. miss the hole) when putting over a distance of 10ft!Start of Forward Rotation: will tell you whether the golf ball has positive RPM rotation or negative rotation at the point of impact. In certain instances during impact, the golf ball is imparted with backspin and hence has a negative rotation. In this instance the ‘Start of Forward Rotation’ is the point the ball stops spinning backwards"


    So I think we all know now that cut spin and hook spin can change direction of a putt.

    But in fairness GreeBo is making a different point that - this spin is then removed in the true roll phase - he is right there - friction is much higher on grass and cut spin will be removed quickly -
    In air - football
    A pool table

    Substances with less friction, the spin will stay on the ball longer - we will not bring drag into an already heated debate :)

    So a ball can draw or fade prior to the true roll phase - it will then roll straight. So everybody is right in a way.

    It is one of those grey ones lads - it is not a draw in a traditional sense.

    But if side spin is removed from anything it requires a force. My original point is that this force could cause the ball to change direction. It does. But not for long. But enough to miss.

    Miss debates like this - GreeBo is very good at them and rarely wrong. :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,493 ✭✭✭Miley Byrne


    GreeBo wrote: »
    denisoc16, if you have nothing to add to the conversation then please feel free to add nothing.
    Otherwise you will be "saved" from this forum, this is not AH, thanks whoring is not appreciated.

    PM sent. "thanks whoring" is not a passtime of mine


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,695 ✭✭✭ForeRight


    Greebo you're relentless!!!

    As I've stated my original comment was just figure of speech for such a short putt.

    I feel like going 100 lines after it now


    I cannot slice 3 foot putts. It's a push
    I cannot slice 3 foot putts. It's a push
    I cannot slice 3 foot putts. It's a push


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,133 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    ForeRight wrote: »
    Greebo you're relentless!!!

    As I've stated my original comment was just figure of speech for such a short putt.

    I feel like going 100 lines after it now


    I cannot slice 3 foot putts. It's a push
    I cannot slice 3 foot putts. It's a push
    I cannot slice 3 foot putts. It's a push

    You mean

    I can (sort of) slice a 3 foot putt.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,664 ✭✭✭✭Rikand


    Back to the original post if I may for a moment. I was struggling on short ones recently and this is what I did to fix it.

    Even taking a short putt, I take the time to remark the putt and make sure that the name of the ball is lined up towards the hole or the intended line I intend to take. Then, when taking my stroke, I make sure to stare intently at the name of the ball until I have hit the ball.

    This has been helping me to hit the ball on the line that i want and resulting in making more putts, particularly shorter ones. Sure it takes a bit more time, but its better than missing one through lack of care :)

    Hope this helps you :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,138 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    ForeRight wrote: »
    I sliced a 3 foot putt on Saturday. A proper slice that slid across the hole and ended up 2 foot to the right of the hole.

    It was a dead straight putt too.
    All I could do was laugh it was so pathetic
    ForeRight wrote: »
    Greebo you're relentless!!!

    As I've stated my original comment was just figure of speech for such a short putt.

    I feel like going 100 lines after it now


    I cannot slice 3 foot putts. It's a push
    I cannot slice 3 foot putts. It's a push
    I cannot slice 3 foot putts. It's a push

    It's ok ForeRight, you didn't actually say anything about creating slice spin on the ball.

    The term "slicing a putt" is out there and commonly used, it concerns the putting stroke rather than the spin or lack thereof imparted on the golf ball.

    http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-instruction/golf-fix-release-toe-stop-slicing-putts/

    I for one, didn't imagine a scenario any shouts of "Fore Right" from you on the green.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,349 ✭✭✭Wombatman


    Rikand wrote: »
    Back to the original post if I may for a moment. I was struggling on short ones recently and this is what I did to fix it.

    Even taking a short putt, I take the time to remark the putt and make sure that the name of the ball is lined up towards the hole or the intended line I intend to take. Then, when taking my stroke, I make sure to stare intently at the name of the ball until I have hit the ball.

    This has been helping me to hit the ball on the line that i want and resulting in making more putts, particularly shorter ones. Sure it takes a bit more time, but its better than missing one through lack of care :)

    Hope this helps you :)

    This sounds like pure gold. Thanks bro. Can't wait to try it out.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,505 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    denisoc16 wrote: »
    PM sent. "thanks whoring" is not a passtime of mine

    Then why did you feel the need to post to tell me you have PM'd me?

    Again, per the charter, do not respond to mod decision on thread please.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    I've seen some pointless discussions in my time but some of the stuff on this thread really takes the biscuit. Incredible stuff.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,505 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    I've seen some pointless discussions in my time but some of the stuff on this thread really takes the biscuit. Incredible stuff.

    Equally,
    I've seen some pointless posts in my time... (and this is another one of them)

    Why bother posting if you have nothing to contribute other than to say you think its pointless?
    Isnt that just adding to the pointlessness of it all?

    Also, exactly why you think a conversation/debate about a golf topic on a golf forum is pointless eludes me?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,133 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Equally,
    I've seen some pointless posts in my time... (and this is another one of them)

    Why bother posting if you have nothing to contribute other than to say you think its pointless?
    Isnt that just adding to the pointlessness of it all?

    Also, exactly why you think a conversation/debate about a golf topic on a golf forum is pointless eludes me?

    I enjoyed it.

    But I think we are finished.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 878 ✭✭✭Montgolfier


    This should on the Harrington thread.
    Your an amateur in contention you will miss sometimes. Theres no real point to getting too technical, nobody knows the exact conditions during your putt.

    The ball could have hit a stone a tiny one, you missed accept it and move on.
    Its better to blame it on the conditions it will sit with you better next time you have the same putt.
    I bought a ball balancer in the usa, it spins the ball at 10k revs a min so the ball can find its own balance point. Then its marked while its spinning. I didn't notice much difference maybe a little more confidence.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,133 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    This should on the Harrington thread.
    Your an amateur in contention you will miss sometimes. Theres no real point to getting too technical, nobody knows the exact conditions during your putt.

    The ball could have hit a stone a tiny one, you missed accept it and move on.
    Its better to blame it on the conditions it will sit with you better next time you have the same putt.
    I bought a ball balancer in the usa, it spins the ball at 10k revs a min so the ball can find its own balance point. Then its marked while its spinning. I didn't notice much difference maybe a little more confidence.

    Your joking.

    Not getting too technical then getting a ball balancer :)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 878 ✭✭✭Montgolfier


    Your joking.

    Not getting too technical then getting a ball balancer :)

    Maybe the order is confusing.
    I was getting too technical but I realised thats a slippery slope. Now I just try to roll a nice putt, if it goes in great if not move on.


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