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Pulling short putts

24

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,695 ✭✭✭ForeRight


    GreeBo wrote: »
    You cant physically slice or hook a putt. The ball is rolling so there is no spin to cause it to veer off. You either push or pull it based on the clubface angle. (see the new ball flight rules)

    That said, it can certainly be pathetic when you miss a short putt :o


    No way greebo. I sliced the arse off it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,664 ✭✭✭✭Rikand


    GreeBo wrote: »
    You cant physically slice or hook a putt. The ball is rolling so there is no spin to cause it to veer off. You either push or pull it based on the clubface angle. (see the new ball flight rules)

    That said, it can certainly be pathetic when you miss a short putt :o

    I carry my putts a good 10 inches in the air, there's definitely enough time to impart slice or hook spin on the ball in that time its in the air ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,472 ✭✭✭stockdam


    Note to self.

    Unless you have the yips then there's no hope for you.

    For short putts make sure you follow your routine and don't just amble up. Don't aim outside the hole unless there's a huge break. Align yourself and the club face. Take a practice stroke, step up, relax and repeat your practice stroke. If you make a good stroke then the ball will drop. Don't steer it in but stroke it in smoothly.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 934 ✭✭✭moycullen14


    Slice, fade, draw, hook, chip, sh**k. There's nothing I can't do to with a putt. Except maybe roll it into the hole.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 913 ✭✭✭Redzah


    GreeBo wrote: »
    You cant physically slice or hook a putt. The ball is rolling so there is no spin to cause it to veer off. You either push or pull it based on the clubface angle. (see the new ball flight rules)

    That said, it can certainly be pathetic when you miss a short putt :o

    Not sure i agree with this Greebo, if you cannot impart spin on the ball then why do so many pro's and golf columnists advocate hitting a putt on the upward strike to put topspin on the ball. Also. a slow motion of a putted ball shows that it moves in tiny bounces on a green so it is my opinion that a sliced strike can do enough to effect and cause a putt to miss. Aside from the above, I agree that the clubface angle is the dominant factor.

    In relation to tips to help alleviate pulling putts i.e the yips, grip pressure often can be a cause, golfers tend to grip the putter tighter when pressure is felt over a short putt. Make a concentrated effort to grip the putter lighter than you believe you normally would as the lighter you grip the club the less chance that tension can effect the stroke.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 230 ✭✭rollotomasi


    Putting while looking at the hole and not the ball can take all the mechanics out the stroke and good to do in practice. Good for judging long putts too....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,000 ✭✭✭Russman


    Redzah wrote: »
    Not sure i agree with this Greebo, if you cannot impart spin on the ball then why do so many pro's and golf columnists advocate hitting a putt on the upward strike to put topspin on the ball. Also. a slow motion of a putted ball shows that it moves in tiny bounces on a green so it is my opinion that a sliced strike can do enough to effect and cause a putt to miss. Aside from the above, I agree that the clubface angle is the dominant factor.

    I think any slice/hook "spin" is effectively gone though after the first couple of feet when the ball starts to actually roll. The clubface angle at impact obviously has sent it off on a slightly incorrect path, but once it starts rolling, I think the momentum of it is dominant over any other factor. The ball, unless it has outrageous spin, always rolls "end over end", although it might not be on the line intended............I think :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭agusta


    Putting while looking at the hole and not the ball can take all the mechanics out the stroke and good to do in practice. Good for judging long putts too....
    This is excellent.I have done this many times when i felt i was getting mechanical.I bet you dont miss many short putts


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,505 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Redzah wrote: »
    Not sure i agree with this Greebo, if you cannot impart spin on the ball then why do so many pro's and golf columnists advocate hitting a putt on the upward strike to put topspin on the ball. Also. a slow motion of a putted ball shows that it moves in tiny bounces on a green so it is my opinion that a sliced strike can do enough to effect and cause a putt to miss. Aside from the above, I agree that the clubface angle is the dominant factor.

    Putts arent hit hard enough to generate any spin that can survive the contact with the ground. Any tiny bit of spin will be gone after the first bounce, on a 3 foot putt there is zero spin.

    The whole topspin thing is a myth, again you dont hit the ball hard enough with a putt to spin it and even if you did the spin fades quickly due to the contact with the grass.

    Try to spin a golf ball on a green with your hand the same way you would spin a snooker/pool ball on the table. It just doesnt work on the rough grassy surface due to the amount of friction. It grabs and the spin is gone.

    Think of a full pitch into a green, loaded with backspin, as soon as the ball lands the spin grabs the green and the ball rolls back, its not spinning back, you never see a ball spinning on the spot. Thats with a full wedge, impossible with a putter hitting the ball along the ground.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 802 ✭✭✭m r c


    I have seen a ball spin on the spot greebo.
    It was a shot Phil Mickelson played in the last 6 months. I'll link of I can find it on you tube.

    I also think there was a golfer from years gone by. I'm open to correction on his name whom was known for hooking his putts, Bobby Grace afaik he was famous for his ability on the greens and apparently hooked his putts as I said.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 802 ✭✭✭m r c


    It's not Bobby Grace I'm thinking of he makes putters. I'll post his name when it comes back to me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 802 ✭✭✭m r c


    Bobby Locke.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭alxmorgan


    m r c wrote: »
    It's not Bobby Grace I'm thinking of he makes putters. I'll post his name when it comes back to me.

    Bobby Locke is who you are thinking about


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,133 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    I think it is crazy to suggest that you can not impart side spin on a putt.
    In fact, it is not crazy - it just defies basic Newtonian laws.

    If no friction existed - and it was a perfect collision in a vacuum the argument being made would be valid. But a golf ball is not a perfect sphere - it is designed to have friction. In fact , in his maddest moment - a certain Peltz was suggesting that people need to place a ball in such a way that a dimple would not impact on putter head.

    When an open face meets a golf ball - a force will be exerted on the ball along the face angle resulting in spin if friction exists. Any force applied by the grass has a directional influence on the ball. The suggestion that one force overwhelms another is just bad science - sorry, but X-x is not equal to X.

    If people are trying to prioritise forces, that is fair enough. I'd rather see Force values. But there is no doubt that friction has resulted in a change in direction.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,664 ✭✭✭✭Rikand


    I think it is crazy to suggest that you can not impart side spin on a putt.
    In fact, it is not crazy - it just defies basic Newtonian laws.

    If no friction existed - and it was a perfect collision in a vacuum the argument being made would be valid. But a golf ball is not a perfect sphere - it is designed to have friction. In fact , in his maddest moment - a certain Peltz was suggesting that people need to place a ball in such a way that a dimple would not impact on putter head.

    When an open face meets a golf ball - a force will be exerted on the ball along the face angle resulting in spin if friction exists. Any force applied by the grass has a directional influence on the ball. The suggestion that one force overwhelms another is just bad science - sorry, but X-x is not equal to X.

    If people are trying to prioritise forces, that is fair enough. I'd rather see Force values. But there is no doubt that friction has resulted in a change in direction.

    so all that copy from Wikipedia is saying, yes you can impart spin ? :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,133 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    Rikand wrote: »
    so all that copy from Wikipedia is saying, yes you can impart spin ? :)

    ;)

    I wish - too many years in a lab.

    There is no need in this life to understand the coefficient of restitution -


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,000 ✭✭✭Russman


    I think it is crazy to suggest that you can not impart side spin on a putt.
    In fact, it is not crazy - it just defies basic Newtonian laws.

    If no friction existed - and it was a perfect collision in a vacuum the argument being made would be valid. But a golf ball is not a perfect sphere - it is designed to have friction. In fact , in his maddest moment - a certain Peltz was suggesting that people need to place a ball in such a way that a dimple would not impact on putter head.

    When an open face meets a golf ball - a force will be exerted on the ball along the face angle resulting in spin if friction exists. Any force applied by the grass has a directional influence on the ball. The suggestion that one force overwhelms another is just bad science - sorry, but X-x is not equal to X.

    If people are trying to prioritise forces, that is fair enough. I'd rather see Force values. But there is no doubt that friction has resulted in a change in direction.

    Absolutely agree there's a change in direction, but once the ball is rolling rather than skidding/bouncing, IMO there's no "spin" on it at that point, it continues to roll in a straight line on the line that the open or closed clubface has sent it.

    Anyway, people are waaay overthinking putting, there's the ball, there's the hole, hit the ball into the hole. Topspin, overspin, underspin, sidespin, backspin, doesn't matter a damn once the ball goes in.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 279 ✭✭shaneon77


    I think it is crazy to suggest that you can not impart side spin on a putt.
    In fact, it is not crazy - it just defies basic Newtonian laws.

    If no friction existed - and it was a perfect collision in a vacuum the argument being made would be valid. But a golf ball is not a perfect sphere - it is designed to have friction. In fact , in his maddest moment - a certain Peltz was suggesting that people need to place a ball in such a way that a dimple would not impact on putter head.

    When an open face meets a golf ball - a force will be exerted on the ball along the face angle resulting in spin if friction exists. Any force applied by the grass has a directional influence on the ball. The suggestion that one force overwhelms another is just bad science - sorry, but X-x is not equal to X.

    If people are trying to prioritise forces, that is fair enough. I'd rather see Force values. But there is no doubt that friction has resulted in a change in direction.

    I'm with GREEBO on this one.
    there is no such thing as actual "side spin" ,
    A curved ball on a full shot is casused by backspin with axis tilt.
    This is not possible on putts. at least not with a conventional putting stroke.
    The "spin" imparted by a mis-hit can be enough to send the ball on the wrong initial path- couple this with a natural gradient on the green and it is very easy to percive this as side spin...... but its just a crap putt.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 279 ✭✭shaneon77




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,505 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    I think it is crazy to suggest that you can not impart side spin on a putt.
    In fact, it is not crazy - it just defies basic Newtonian laws.

    If no friction existed - and it was a perfect collision in a vacuum the argument being made would be valid. But a golf ball is not a perfect sphere - it is designed to have friction. In fact , in his maddest moment - a certain Peltz was suggesting that people need to place a ball in such a way that a dimple would not impact on putter head.

    When an open face meets a golf ball - a force will be exerted on the ball along the face angle resulting in spin if friction exists. Any force applied by the grass has a directional influence on the ball. The suggestion that one force overwhelms another is just bad science - sorry, but X-x is not equal to X.

    If people are trying to prioritise forces, that is fair enough. I'd rather see Force values. But there is no doubt that friction has resulted in a change in direction.

    The argument is that DUE to friction you cant have spin. The friction causes the ball to grip the grass and thus the spin is lost. You get spin when you dont have friction, not when you do.

    Put another way, where is there more friction, between ball and putter face or ball and grass?
    To get spin you would need the friction between ball and putter face to impart so much spin that it survives the friction between the ball and the grass. I put it to you that this is impossible.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭BigChap1759


    Space.

    Seen you in action on 18 the other day.

    Very good up and down. Great composure over putt - little head rise.

    For comparison - from the same spot I had a 5. Not even a bad chip - just pure lack of confidence.


    Lads - has anybody tried a fat putter grip for this and how did they find it ?

    Put on a Superstroke grip last season and it's transformed my putting - would highly recommend trying one. It allows you to hold the putter much more lightly and having almost open hands takes all the muscle tension out of your fore arms

    EDIT - I will caveat this in case the lads who played with me at Esker Hills read this!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,036 ✭✭✭Loire


    I'm thinking of getting a putting lesson as my short putts are very poor. Went to the range yesterday evening though and just concentrated on putting by rocking my shoulders (to take my hands out of play) and it seemed to make a big difference...de-acceleration almost impossible.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭Milkers


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Putts arent hit hard enough to generate any spin that can survive the contact with the ground. Any tiny bit of spin will be gone after the first bounce, on a 3 foot putt there is zero spin.

    The whole topspin thing is a myth, again you dont hit the ball hard enough with a putt to spin it and even if you did the spin fades quickly due to the contact with the grass.

    Try to spin a golf ball on a green with your hand the same way you would spin a snooker/pool ball on the table. It just doesnt work on the rough grassy surface due to the amount of friction. It grabs and the spin is gone.

    Think of a full pitch into a green, loaded with backspin, as soon as the ball lands the spin grabs the green and the ball rolls back, its not spinning back, you never see a ball spinning on the spot. Thats with a full wedge, impossible with a putter hitting the ball along the ground.

    I guess the guys at the TaylorMade lab have also bought into this "myth".

    "A few years ago he was at the Taylor Made factory in carlsbad and they had a few of the senior tour players on a launch monitor checking their spin rates on their putts. He was telling me how you want to have about 120 rpms of overspin on the ball when it comes off the putter face. Dave Stockton had the best at 150 rpms. Surprisingly Hale Irwin had the worst at 40 rpms of backspin.

    They start talking to Hale and they are like, Hale you are imparting back spin on the ball we want that thing to be spinning the other way when it comes off your face. Hale looks confused at first, then says "oh... you want a quiet putt" The taylormade guys are a little confused themselves now and ask Hale what he means. He explains to them how he hits a quiet putt when hes putting up hill and into the grain and then proceeds to hit a putt with 160 rpms of overspin."


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,138 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    PARlance wrote: »
    This thread is being ignored.

    I am a good putter.
    I am a good putter.
    I am a good putter.

    (Had an 18inch putt today and I nearly crapped myself as I waited on others to putt out)

    I am a good putter.
    I am a good putter.
    I am a good putter.

    (It went in... Just about)

    Best day on the greens today in what seems like an eternity!
    Made an effort to get "positive" about it and it made a difference.

    I am a good putter. :)
    (That doesn't seem as far away now)

    Have been on the putting mat for 30-40mins each night these last few days. Holing them 2 footers, 100's of them, has helped the confidence.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,505 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Milkers wrote: »
    I guess the guys at the TaylorMade lab have also bought into this "myth".

    "A few years ago he was at the Taylor Made factory in carlsbad and they had a few of the senior tour players on a launch monitor checking their spin rates on their putts. He was telling me how you want to have about 120 rpms of overspin on the ball when it comes off the putter face. Dave Stockton had the best at 150 rpms. Surprisingly Hale Irwin had the worst at 40 rpms of backspin.

    They start talking to Hale and they are like, Hale you are imparting back spin on the ball we want that thing to be spinning the other way when it comes off your face. Hale looks confused at first, then says "oh... you want a quiet putt" The taylormade guys are a little confused themselves now and ask Hale what he means. He explains to them how he hits a quiet putt when hes putting up hill and into the grain and then proceeds to hit a putt with 160 rpms of overspin."


    A launch monitor will show the spin at launch, when the ball is in the air, I never disputed that. Once the ball rolls it has no spin. I disagree that there will be enough spin on the ball to curve it, to any degree that would be significant compared to the putter face angle.

    On a 3 foot putt, there is no spin.

    btw, how was irwin putting on backspin if he had an rpm of 40? did he putt he ball backwards? If the ball is rolling, whatever speed its rolling at is its RPM. if he was putting backspin on it would roll backwards.

    Interesting Link in this area


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 727 ✭✭✭C.O.Y.B.I.B


    Put on a Superstroke grip last season and it's transformed my putting - would highly recommend trying one. It allows you to hold the putter much more lightly and having almost open hands takes all the muscle tension out of your fore arms

    EDIT - I will caveat this in case the lads who played with me at Esker Hills read this!!

    Interesting , my putter grip is getting fairly worn . new grip = confidence


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,000 ✭✭✭Russman


    Milkers wrote: »
    I guess the guys at the TaylorMade lab have also bought into this "myth".

    These would be the TaylorMade boys that gave us 17 yards with RBZ and then another 10 yards with RBZ Stage 2 ? :D:D

    Overspin-ier !!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 802 ✭✭✭m r c


    GreeBo wrote: »
    The argument is that DUE to friction you cant have spin. The friction causes the ball to grip the grass and thus the spin is lost. You get spin when you dont have friction, not when you do.

    Put another way, where is there more friction, between ball and putter face or ball and grass?
    To get spin you would need the friction between ball and putter face to impart so much spin that it survives the friction between the ball and the grass. I put it to you that this is impossible.



    I'm certain you are wrong this time Mr G, it'd be impossible to bend the cue ball in snooker if your logic holds up. Btw I can't imagine why or how it'd be practically useful to a golfer but I'm sure you can hook or cut a ball while putting.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,505 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    m r c wrote: »
    I'm certain you are wrong this time Mr G, it'd be impossible to bend the cue ball in snooker if your logic holds up. Btw I can't imagine why or how it'd be practically useful to a golfer but I'm sure you can hook or cut a ball while putting.

    Like I said, you can do it in snooker due to the vastly reduced levels of friction. The ball is able to hold its spin far longer, as it loses it, due to grip, it moves because of that grip.

    Golf balls are not smooth and grass is grippy.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 914 ✭✭✭shane 007


    Put on a Superstroke grip last season and it's transformed my putting - would highly recommend trying one. It allows you to hold the putter much more lightly and having almost open hands takes all the muscle tension out of your fore arms

    EDIT - I will caveat this in case the lads who played with me at Esker Hills read this!!
    I fitted one a couple of weeks after seeing yours. I have to say I am really liking it. At first, holing puts from all angles but then the honeymoon period ends & the getting used to begins.
    Absolutely agree the lighter hold makes it work much better.


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