multi calibre pistol

Gatling

OK chaps settle an argument for me ,
Was having a discussion with a few friends who wanted to take up pistol shooting ,despite repeatedly telling them CF pistols are gone for new shooters ,
Any how the discussion centered around a rock river 1911 chambered in .22 but is shipped with a 9mm conversation kit so 2 in 1 apparently ,
So if CF pistols were still legal would you need to licences for two different caliber's or would one licence cover both calibers ,

Would the same apply to a multiple caliber rifle ? Multiple licences for one system or one licence but limited to a single caliber

dimcoin

What about going to a range and renting out different pistols to find out the one you like? Have you ever shot a pistol before?

juice1304

You would nee a licence for each caliber.

And you can't rent pistols.

Cass

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

In a nutshell.

dimcoin

Wait...you NEED A LICENSE to rent guns?! WTF, is that the entire country or just your locality?

What about going to your local range and asking if you can try out different guns that they might have behind the counter? Do you require a permit or something to fire each type of gun?

Also, 22 caliber is cheaper than 9mm, but 9mm is an absolute blast to shoot, so maybe fire the 1911 as a 22 then convert it to a 9mm later on? You might have to get your license modified when you change the caliber though. This would be a good idea as if you get spot checked by the cops and your supposed to have a 22 but you are rocking a 9mm.

Cass

dimcoin wrote: »

Wait...you NEED A LICENSE to rent guns?! WTF, is that the entire country or just your locality?

People can use range firearms if a range holds firearms under section 2(4)(d) if memory serves. As for pistols. No range i know off allows the rental of pistols. None i know of even hold pistols for rental. It is always owner users and they are not about to hand over their valued firearm to someone for a bit of fun. I know i wouldn't.

What about going to your local range and asking if you can try out different guns that they might have behind the counter? Do you require a permit or something to fire each type of gun?

As above in relation to the permits/licensing.

Secondly the laws surreounding firearms and their use is long and contrived. No day membership may be used. IOW you cannot join for a day. In 99% of cases it's people with their own insurance firing their own guns on a range. Or range guns under their own insurance. Also individual ranges may impose rules regardless of the law. Not to break it, but to make it stricter. IOW if you are allowed to shoot another person's gun on a range (and technically you are under SI 622/2011) the range is under no obligation to allow it.

Also, 22 caliber is cheaper than 9mm, but 9mm is an absolute blast to shoot, so maybe fire the 1911 as a 22 then convert it to a 9mm later on? You might have to get your license modified when you change the caliber though. This would be a good idea as if you get spot checked by the cops and your supposed to have a 22 but you are rocking a 9mm.

Without getting into the specifics of trying to pass one gun off as another, for every caliber you own, no matter the amount of actual firearms you must have a separate license per barrel. So whether a pistol or rifle if there are more than one caliber then you need more than one license.

Lastly, and this is the very important bit, you cannot and will not be able to fire anything other than a .22lr pistol. All other calibers are classed as restricted. This means two things:

• No range carries them for rental
• You will never get a license for one as it's effectively banned since November of 2008. Meaning unless you already had a license for a pistol(other than .22lr) before Nov. 2008 you will not get one and are not even allowed to apply for one.

Witcher

Ranges here are nothing like in the US, most don't take walk ins at all unless you're with a member. Those that do, only allow you to use certain firearms, you will be able to use a 12G and .22 rifle..that's your lot.

Can't have any centrefire pistol here unless you had it before Nov. 2008. 5 shot .22lr pistols only.

Edit: Cassssssss! :pac:

Cass

Blay wrote: »

Edit: Cassssssss! :pac:

Beat ya this time.

dimcoin

Hmm. Thanks for the information guys. Especially you Cass. It looks like if I ever hop the pond I will have to leave my firearms at home. I spent 3 years overseas in Japan and had to make do with indoor airsoft ranges!

Cass

The firearm laws in this country are out of date, harshly strict, unevenly applied, unfairly enforced, not enforced, ignored when unsuitable and exploited when necessary.

That being said other than centrefire pistols (not counting fully auto firearms, mortars, explosives, and other prohibited weaponry) if you meet the criteria necessary for a license you can own pretty much any caliber gun and type of gun you want. Such as:

• Rifles from .17 air rifle up to .50 cal centrefire
• Rifles of bolt action, lever, break open, and semi auto
• Shotgun from .410 up to, and exceeding, 12g
• Shotguns from single barrel, double, Side by Side up to semi auto
• Pistols of .22lr (restricted to 5 round mags)
• Above pistols in revolver or semi auto

The reason for each gun are different, but "Good Reason" is a necessity. So once you provide this good reason in the form of membership of a range or for hunting then you're good.

There are also a few things in our favour. Such as multiple barrels for the same caliber with only one license. There are more but this is a bigger one IMO. So it's not all bad.

dimcoin

This sounds grand. I skipped on buying an AK/47 or AK/74 this year so all I have is a bolt action rifle(Mosin Nagant) atm. I am sad to hear that the laws are so outdated, but at least it seems you guys are free of the police coming to your house to "inspect" your firearms and ammo lockers. This was a problem for New Zealand gun enthusiasts.

Is there any real gun rights organization in Ireland, like what we have for the NRA here? Also, what gave away that I am an American?!

Cass

dimcoin wrote: »

I am sad to hear that the laws are so outdated, but at least it seems you guys are free of the police coming to your house to "inspect" your firearms and ammo lockers. This was a problem for New Zealand gun enthusiasts.

Nope. Afraid not.

To apply for a license takes a minimum of 3 months, we must license every gun individually, we must sign an 8 page form giving away our rights to medical privacy (among other things), sign a security section, be available for/and allow home inspections, and if we fail this home inspection or sign the security section when our security is not up to scratch we face charges for a fraudulent application which carries a fine and possible jail. Also the level of home security rises depending on the amount and type of firearms (restricted or non restricted)

Is there any real gun rights organization in Ireland, like what we have for the NRA here?

There is a pletora of gun organisations, groups, and associations. Problem is they are too busy trying to be in control, in fighting, fighting with the Department that issue our firearms license/laws, and then with anyone else they can fight that nothing gets done other than a lot of shouting. Then the only thing that suffers is the sport itself.

The big factor is we have no right to firearms. None. They can all be done away with in the morning if the Minister decides to do it. So our firearms are in essence a privilege.

Also, what gave away that I am an American?!

They freedom with which you discuss certain items/topics as though it's as easy as buying a cake. The incredulous tone of your posts. Might not nail you down as being in the states, but definitely not "native". Otherwise you'd be as sick as the rest of us.

German pointer

Also, what gave away that I am an American?![/QUOTE]

Maybe your first post but certainly your second one in this thread

dimcoin

Hmm. It seems a bit crazy to give up your right to privacy in order to get a firearm.

Thanks guys(especially user Cass) for the 411 on gun rights in The Republic, I will keep this in mind with future plans.

sfakiaman

Gatling wrote: »

Would the same apply to a multiple caliber rifle ? Multiple licences for one system or one licence but limited to a single caliber

I know someone who has an over/under rifle/shotgun combination and requires two licences.

Eo1n8wrd

dimcoin wrote: »

Also, what gave away that I am an American?!

dimcoin wrote: »

rocking a 9mm.

Those three little words did it for me

Sparks

dimcoin wrote: »

Hmm. It seems a bit crazy to give up your right to privacy in order to get a firearm.

It's not so much the right to privacy, which arguably has been lost pretty much everywhere, as the medical confidentiality that has to be given up, and that was as a rather stupidly thought out amendment to the law that's supposed to see medically unqualified Gardai reading our medical files (which do not exist in a single document format because the healthcare system in Ireland and elsewhere can't yet keep such files unless they're physical paper files) and making determinations as to mental health from them. Oddly, no doctor or Garda actually wants to stick their head in that bear trap.

However, the rest of the public don't think of it as crazy, so we're stuck with it...

Grizzly 45

dimcoin wrote: »

,

but at least it seems you guys are free of the police coming to your house to "inspect" your firearms and ammo lockers

.
NOPE! The Gaurds also have that "right" to inspect your security firearms and ammo at any "reasonable time" under statue powers under the various firearms acts. This is however done with both parties present,and not a no knock ATFE style visit.

Is there any real gun rights organization in Ireland, like what we have for the NRA here? Also, what gave away that I am an American?

!

Many cheifs,plenty of injuns.' Cept the cheifs perfer to war amongst themselves as to who has um heap biggest tribe.:(

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

NOPE! The Gaurds also have that "right" to inspect your security firearms and ammo at any "reasonable time" under statue powers under the various firearms acts. This is however done with both parties present,and not a no knock ATFE style visit.

Yeah, but if you've ever tried to keep a TV licence inspector out, you've learned that this isn't exactly what you could reasonably call a loss of privacy. There were quite a few people empowered to search your home without a specific warrant before this point. And the firearms inspections are probably the politest of the lot.

Many cheifs,plenty of injuns.' Cept the cheifs perfer to war amongst themselves as to who has um heap biggest tribe.:(

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The US has 114 seperate lobbying groups before you ever get to the groups who govern sports, and they're just as bad. I really wish people would stop thinking that just because they never pay enough attention to the news from the US that the situation there is somehow better than it is here. They have problems as bad as we have here, they're just different problems.

EWQuinn

Rock River Arms used to make 1911's, started out by making them in 1996. Then they went to ARs, now as introduced in the 2014 SHOT show they make a "polymer frame" 1911 in .45 ACP. I believe when first starting out they made 1911s in 9mm as well as .45. I guess they could have made a conversion gun for 2 calibers, but I have never seen one.

http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/rockisland1911micromag22tcm9mm.aspx

Rock Island Armory makes a 1911 in .22 TCM and 9mm Luger. Look there but none other than good old SARCO with a pretty low price for one.

dimcoin

A little off topic so I apologize.

I see people referring to the police as Guarda here but when speaking of individual policeman they say "guard". Is this correct? A member of The Garda is called a guard, and the federal police for Ireland is refereed to as The Garda?

Many Thanks.

German pointer

dimcoin wrote: »

A little off topic so I apologize.

I see people referring to the police as Guarda here but when speaking of individual policeman they say "guard". Is this correct? A member of The Garda is called a guard, and the federal police for Ireland is refereed to as The Garda?

Many Thanks.

That's close enough but we have a few other choice names for them as well

patsat

dimcoin wrote: »

A little off topic so I apologize.

I see people referring to the police as Guarda here but when speaking of individual policeman they say "guard". Is this correct? A member of The Garda is called a guard, and the federal police for Ireland is refereed to as The Garda?

Many Thanks.

http://www.garda.ie/ That site will tell you pretty much everything about our police.

And here is some light reading on our licensing guidelines the Gardai use to issue firearms! You can have a good laugh at our misfortune! http://www.garda.ie/Documents/User/Commissioners%20Guidelines%20(as%20amended%2022nd%20Oct)%20in%20relation%20to%20Firearms%20Licensing%5B1%5D.pdf

dimcoin

patsat wrote: »

And here is some light reading on our licensing guidelines the Gardai use to issue firearms! You can have a good laugh at our misfortune!

This could be my misfortune if I end up in Ireland next year. I will just have to leave my firearms here with my family. I am thinking of getting into archery. Some of my freinds are into it, and it looks like alot of fun and mayhaps easier to carry around with you between countries(I spend alot of time in Canada and bringing firearms into Canada can get expensive).

German pointer

dimcoin wrote: »

This could be my misfortune if I end up in Ireland next year. I will just have to leave my firearms here with my family. I am thinking of getting into archery. Some of my freinds are into it, and it looks like alot of fun and mayhaps easier to carry around with you between countries(I spend alot of time in Canada and bringing firearms into Canada can get expensive).

If your thinking of bow hunting in Ireland forget it its illegal

dimcoin

German pointer wrote: »

If your thinking of bow hunting in Ireland forget it its illegal

Damn, what is the justification? Hunting with a bow is just as safe as hunting with a rifle or pistol. It is all about the skill of the hunter.

I myself don't hunt, but this seems like an unusual and arbitrary rule.

Grizzly 45

dimcoin wrote: »

Damn, what is the justification? Hunting with a bow is just as safe as hunting with a rifle or pistol. It is all about the skill of the hunter.

I myself don't hunt, but this seems like an unusual and arbitrary rule.

Outdated thinking on what a sport could be,and proably too many gob****es going out and abusing it as well.:( We have a tendency to have too many idiots go out and abuse what few priviliges we are allowed here,so the State reacts and bans or liscenses the Hell out of it.We dont have "rights" per se here,everything is a privilige here.Crossbows for example were an off ticket item once.But because some mentally retarded or just plain stupid people decided to shoot at each other and at the Gaurds with them,they are now liscensable as a firearm.And worse a restricted firearm,so you might as well go and apply for a fully tricked out evil black semi auto rifle as a crossbow ,you will have the same procedures and hassle.:rolleyes:

Want a BB gun here?Liscensed like a normal powder burning gun.So why not just get a .22 then?
Black powder?? Forget it! Major can of worms...Paranoia about the powder being used for illegal purposes like pipe bombs,etc.

Reloading Sure if you have about 4 thousand euros to set up an industrial style fire and security alarms,live in a bunker 12 miles from the nearest house they might consider it,or you can join one club in Ireland that went thru the 12 tasks of Hercules to get it approved for F class shooting,and ONLY Fclass is allowed reload on the range in if you saw it you would swear were ICBM storage bunkers.
All in all if life can be made difficult for a gun owner here in Ireland,you can be sure it will be made so.:(

Sparks

dimcoin wrote: »

Damn, what is the justification? Hunting with a bow is just as safe as hunting with a rifle or pistol. It is all about the skill of the hunter.

Exactly. And there is no mandatory, state system for determining the skill of a hunter (and there would be immense resistance to same, as the non-mandatory HCAP and other non-state hunting proficiency courses and tests have shown in Ireland in the last decade, even on this forum).

So any idiot who can't hit the broad side of a barn from the inside would be able to wander into the hills with a 70lb compound bow and carbon fibre arrows if it was legal to use them to hunt and inside of a month, we'd be finding deer in the road shot through a leg or a stomach with an arrow and who took a week to die from blood poisoning. And the resulting crackdown would do more damage than you'd care to imagine.

Are there people in Ireland who could hit the size of target needed to ensure a humane kill at the ranges we're talking about in bow hunting? Yes, I've met some of them, but they had no interest in hunting, they do olympic archery in Ireland or field archery. The few we've seen being vocal about hunting with bows in Ireland... well, a few of them I'd feel uncomfortable giving a butter knife to, let alone anything with an edge or a point, and frankly giving them something like a 70lb compound bow would strike me as enabling a nasty accident.

If you could bring in mandatory proficiency testing, you might have more luck bringing in bow hunting; but frankly I can't see it happening even then. Hunters with rifles and shotguns have enough trouble from certain Joe Publics who don't know that beef doesn't grow in Tesco. Try to introduce bow hunting and you're looking at - at best - a years long process that will sap every ounce of mental strength you have, only to be resolved by random chance in the end, and you're thanks will be crucifixion at the hands of someone who never lent a hand during the process when it would have been helpful but who is absolutely sure you cut a nefarious backroom deal with a TD somewhere to get in bow hunting for compound bows by throwing those who want to hunt with recurve bows under the bus.

Heckler

juice1304 wrote: »

You would nee a licence for each caliber.

And you can't rent pistols.

www.irishshootingsports.ie

You can rent .22 pistols here. They have an indoor range with 7 or 8 lanes.Did it myself some months back along with the clay shooting. Can't remember the make of pistol or prices but you can do it. Actually think it was about 70euros for 25 clays and 3x10 round mags of .22

Sparks

Only for .22lr and air pistols though: see here and here. You're in an awkward place legally though - lots of restrictions and rules apply.

Dian Cecht

Heckler wrote: »

Actually think it was about 70euros for 25 clays and 3x10 round mags of .22

:eek:

That's robbery !

Thought only 5 round magazines were allowed?

Heckler

Dian Cecht wrote: »

:eek:

That's robbery !

Thought only 5 round magazines were allowed?

Thinking back and checking out the website seems it might have been €55. Still saucy I know. There were 2 of us there so I might be confusing prices. They have different priced packages depending on what you want to do.

A friend wanted to give it a go and as I couldn't bring him to my own club we went there.

And they were definitely 10 round magazines. Well run place, plenty of instruction and emphasis on safety so I guess they have all the legalities sorted out.

Sparks

Heckler wrote: »

And they were definitely 10 round magazines. Well run place, plenty of instruction and emphasis on safety so I guess they have all the legalities sorted out.

Not if they were 10 round magazines with 10 rounds in them. Are you sure they weren't 10 round magazines that had been plugged and only had five rounds in them?

sfakiaman

Sparks wrote: »

Not if they were 10 round magazines with 10 rounds in them. Are you sure they weren't 10 round magazines that had been plugged and only had five rounds in them?

If they were licensed as restricted firearms then the 10 round magazines would be legal. The whole magazine capacity thing is a bit daft really.

Witcher

sfakiaman wrote: »

If they were licensed as restricted firearms then the 10 round magazines would be legal. The whole magazine capacity thing is a bit daft really.

Ranges can't provide restricted firearms for a person to use unless that person has a licence for it.

Sparks

sfakiaman wrote: »

If they were licensed as restricted firearms then the 10 round magazines would be legal.

Yes, but letting someone rent them wouldn't be because of the restricted status (you can't have restricted firearms as club firearms).

The whole magazine capacity thing is a bit daft really.

If it's an argument you're looking for there, you're pushing on an open door...

Dian Cecht

So is it possible to have a 22lr pistol with a 10 round magazine licenced? I thought it was only with 5 round magazines.

sfakiaman

Sparks wrote: »

Yes, but letting someone rent them wouldn't be because of the restricted status (you can't have restricted firearms as club firearms).

Didn't know that as my range do not rent out anything.

If it's an argument you're looking for there, you're pushing on an open door...

If I was looking for a argument about mag capacities I wouldn't be looking here:D

Sparks

Dian Cecht wrote: »

So is it possible to have a 22lr pistol with a 10 round magazine licenced? I thought it was only with 5 round magazines.

Yes, you can have one (on a restricted licence), but the club can't (club firearms held on authorisations can't be restricted firearms).

Sparks

sfakiaman wrote: »

If I was looking for a argument about mag capacities I wouldn't be looking here:D

Oddly, I don't think you'd find much argument in justice.ie either, you'd have to go a bit further afield!

sfakiaman

Sparks wrote: »

Oddly, I don't think you'd find much argument in justice.ie either, you'd have to go a bit further afield!

Denver, Colorado maybe, but who wants to argue with a bunch of pot heads.

Sparks

sfakiaman wrote: »

Denver, Colorado maybe, but who wants to argue with a bunch of pot heads.

Not sure you'd have to go quite that far, some members of the Gardai would happily argue the point with you...

Cass

Dian Cecht wrote: »

So is it possible to have a 22lr pistol with a 10 round magazine licenced? I thought it was only with 5 round magazines.

Only if it was licensed pre Nov. 2008. As no new applications for restricted short arms are being accepted. This includes .22lr pistols with anything over 5 round capacity as well as all other calibers.

Zxthinger

sfakiaman wrote: »

I know someone who has an over/under rifle/shotgun combination and requires two licences.

It might be the case for your mate but it's wrong wrong wrong! One firearm should mean one licence!! Pure bull.
It's not as if they're changing over the barrels! It's a static setup !!! ****ing Garda rules again IMO.

Sparks

Zxthinger wrote: »

It might be the case for your mate but it's wrong wrong wrong! One firearm should mean one licence!! Pure bull.

No, it's right.
It shouldn't be right, but the law's messed up.

It's not as if they're changing over the barrels! It's a static setup !!! ****ing Garda rules again IMO.

The starring gardai can't draft the law. You should be getting annoyed at the starring Minister for Justice (specifically McDowell and Aherne).

Grizzly 45

sfakiaman wrote: »

Denver, Colorado maybe, but who wants to argue with a bunch of pot heads.

And they have already got a" Denver mag" of higher capacity than the banned 20 rounder .Its a 50 rounder and totally legal. Basically 5 10 rounders slotted into a piece of star shaped plastic:D Legal because they are all seperate 10 round mags. Fancy ,but were one of such a mind here electrical tape and two five rounders taped end to end would give you the same capacity ...Go figure..:rolleyes:

Gatling

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

And they have already got a" Denver mag" of higher capacity than the banned 20 rounder .Its a 50 rounder and totally legal. Basically 5 10 rounders slotted into a piece of star shaped plastic:D Legal because they are all seperate 10 round mags. Fancy ,but were one of such a mind here electrical tape and two five rounders taped end to end would give you the same capacity ...Go figure..:rolleyes:

Not very tactical ,

It won't sell if it ain't tacticool they yanks won't buy ,

On as side note its monstrous,


I'd take a surefire hicap magazine all 60 rounds at a time

Lmklad

It looks like if I ever hop the pond I will have to leave my firearms at home.

Not necessarily. If the firearm you want to bring over is legal here and the reason you want to use it applies as here you may be able to use an International License. If you are planning on popping over just contact the local Garda station of where you're flying into ie: Shannon or Dublin Airport and ask to speak to the Firearms Officer. They will fill you in.

FYI

Police = An Garda Siochana
Officer = Garda or Guard (English slang of Irish word)
OfficerS = Gardai or Guards

There is one national police force in Ireland, we don't have Feds.

Cass

Lmklad wrote: »

......... you may be able to use an International License..............

There is no such thing, at least not here. You must have either a valid Irish firearms certificate or a visitor's permit (actually called a Non Resident) if you do not intend to stay/live here. If visiting this might be the way to go if you "must have" your own guns. If intending to move here you need to be a resident for a minimum of 6 months before you can apply. This includes Irish citizens returning.