Nissan Leaf: potential buyer questions...

jayjay2010

Hi guys

I will try to keep this short. Basically I'm on the market for a new car and one that I've been considering is a Nissan Leaf. The idea of a car that is cheap to run and that is very high tec seems very interesting to me. Also these cars are much, much cheaper to buy in the UK and VRT is free.

My most important question is obviously about the range but also the ease of charging and length of time that it takes from a standard house socket. I don't drive long distances but I do drive every day. An overnight charge wouldn't be a problem but is there anything that I should be made aware of in terms of charging it at home? I don't think I'd ever use a public charging station as I would prefer to charge it from my home.

Is charging an issue for any current owners? I can barely keep my iPhone charged so I do have a few concerns...

Thanks a mil

mickdw

jayjay2010 wrote: »

Hi guys

I will try to keep this short. Basically I'm on the market for a new car and one that I've been considering is a Nissan Leaf. The idea of a car that is cheap to run and that is very high tec seems very interesting to me. Also these cars are much, much cheaper to buy in the UK and VRT is free.

My most important question is obviously about the range but also the ease of charging and length of time that it takes from a standard house socket. I don't drive long distances but I do drive every day. An overnight charge wouldn't be a problem but is there anything that I should be made aware of in terms of charging it at home? I don't think I'd ever use a public charging station as I would prefer to charge it from my home.

Is charging an issue for any current owners? I can barely keep my iPhone charged so I do have a few concerns...

Thanks a mil

few big threads here already on the leaf. If you think the range it offers will do your daily commute and you don't need the car for any other type of use such as trips across the country at weekend or driving the family to France in the summer, it is a no brainer.
There will be a crazy fella along shortly to tell you all about it and how good it is.

Stavros Murphy

I'd leaf it till they get the recipe sorted. Early adopters are sort of road-testing the first prototypes at their own expense. Ten, maybe fifteen years, they'll be well sorted.

mickdw

mickdw wrote: »

There will be a crazy fella along shortly to tell you all about it and how good it is.

Mad, not crazy !

Op you'll forget to charge only once !

It's good to create new threads as old ones can run their course and useful information get hurried in piles of anti ev bashing comments.

Anyway I called into Nissan Windsor on Belgrad and I found their PCP to be expensive, 550 pm with 2500 down for 30,000 Kms a year and 1600 penalty for going over mileage by 30,000 Kms.

Interest 7.9% is a bit high.

If you do small miles then PCP might be a much better option for you as I pay a lot of depreciation because of the miles.

But I could easily do 20-25 k Kms a year, not small mileage by any means.

You could get a MK I from the U.k for 14-16k euros excluding home evse ( that's the box you plug into to charge, often wrongly called the charger) and excluding the transport costs, some dealers can have it shipped for you.

If you do small mileage then there isn't much of a benefit in buying new and the MK I is very highly equipped.

Range can be low as 60 miles in awful weather when it's cold, wet and windy to 85 or more in summer for the MK I.5

The Mkv 1 will be a bit lower or possibly not depending on your driving style.

Battery cars need a little more care and while the leaf battery control electronics are set to not allow a true full charge or discharge it's still best to use the middle part of the battery as much as possible, I.e charge to 80% and not run down below 20-30%, then when you need the range, use. All 100 % if you need it.

The worst thing you can do is leave it charge at 100% for long periods, ideally you set the timer so it stops charging just before you drive off! but never let it sit at 100% for a few days or below 10%.

If you go on holidays leave it charged at about 60% and charge at fast charger at the topaz at the airport.

If you do 20-50 miles a day the leaf battery should last many years.

jayjay2010

Thanks for your replies guys.

Another concern I have is the battery's lifetime. I've read online that Nissan are offering a battery lease even for people who bought the car outright. This seem to defeat the purpose of actually buying the car in my eyes....

I don't want to be forced to lease a battery and pay a monthly fee.....what if I ever go travelling for half a year would I still have to pay the rental on the battery each month?

ironclaw

Deleted User wrote: »

If you do 20-50 miles a day the leaf battery should last many years.

In my opinion thats criminally low mileage to be on the road at all. My commute to work plus a short detour to the shops would be minimum 50 miles. And live and work around Dublin. I'd easily do 70 miles per day without even trying. Sometimes I'm actually surprised when I look down at the trip computer for the day.

Until they could do 200 miles at night, heater full blast and in the driving rain, I won't be buying one and I don't think you can readily expect the average Irish commuter to either. The range just isn't there. Perfect for cities (No arguing there) but forget even a weekend break to anywhere else! Why bother going EV if you need a petrol guzzler for anything remotely long distance? And I love the tech myself and I would buy a Telsa, but only as a second car at present. Its a gadget, not a tool.

I think Stavros Murphy hit it on the head, give it 5 to 10 years.

Jonnykitedude

Bought mine from the UK before Christmas and have done 10k on it since.

My commute is 65km each way which I charge over night (when I'm asleep) at home which starts at 11pm and is pretty much done by 5am, this is using the granny cable that came with the car but you can have ESB install a home charger which shortens that time.

I'm currently sorting out charging in work but at the moment I'm charging at a quick charge point in Glasnevin each evening for 15mins so I can get home or sometimes I park on the street and use one of the public charge points.

They say 160km range but you'll NEVER get that, more like 120km if you stick to 80kmh and it's not too windy.

Just to note I drove to Newry on 3 occasions last week and used the CP on M1 and then in Newry while going about my business.

Don't mind all the BS about battery failures, Early adopters etc.

Oh I received my ESB bill and it cost me less than €60 to cover 8000km!

Stavros Murphy

Jonnykitedude wrote: »

Bought mine from the UK before Christmas and have done 10k on it since.

My commute is 65km each way which I charge over night (when I'm asleep) at home which starts at 11pm and is pretty much done by 5am, this is using the granny cable that came with the car but you can have ESB install a home charger which shortens that time.

I'm currently sorting out charging in work but at the moment I'm charging at a quick charge point in Glasnevin each evening for 15mins so I can get home or sometimes I park on the street and use one of the public charge points.

They say 160km range but you'll NEVER get that, more like 120km if you stick to 80kmh and it's not too windy.

Just to note I drove to Newry on 3 occasions last week and used the CP on M1 and then in Newry while going about my business.

Don't mind all the BS about battery failures, Early adopters etc.

Oh I received my ESB bill and it cost me less than €60 to cover 8000km!

Sounds like you put a huge amount of thought and effort into getting from a-b. I'd rather not plan my day around my cars range limitations and where there is a charger. I'll stand by my early adopters, enthusiasts view.

Jonnykitedude

How is it huge amount of thought and effort?!?!

It's simple......I arrive home....plug in and leave the car (the timers I have set 3 months ago look after when to start and stop)
When stopping off on route home.....simple again...I plug in and grab a coffee....when I'm done I unplug and drive home.

Show me the huge time and effort?!?!

CiniO

ironclaw wrote: »

In my opinion thats criminally low mileage to be on the road at all. My commute to work plus a short detour to the shops would be minimum 50 miles. And live and work around Dublin. I'd easily do 70 miles per day without even trying. Sometimes I'm actually surprised when I look down at the trip computer for the day.

Until they could do 200 miles at night, heater full blast and in the driving rain, I won't be buying one and I don't think you can readily expect the average Irish commuter to either. The range just isn't there. Perfect for cities (No arguing there) but forget even a weekend break to anywhere else! Why bother going EV if you need a petrol guzzler for anything remotely long distance? And I love the tech myself and I would buy a Telsa, but only as a second car at present. Its a gadget, not a tool.

I think Stavros Murphy hit it on the head, give it 5 to 10 years.

It all depends.
At the moment there are 2 vehicles in my family, and one is never used for more than 80km - 100km (on most days 40km to 60km) a day, and always parks at our home.
EV would be perfect for such use.

We have other vehicle for longer journeys.

CiniO

Deleted User wrote: »

You could get a MK I from the U.k for 14-16k euros excluding home evse ( that's the box you plug into to charge, often wrongly called the charger) and excluding the transport costs, some dealers can have it shipped for you.

What is exactly this EVSE?
Can you charge your Leaf out of any socket or do you need some modiciation of your electrical system at home? If so - what kind of modification?

Assuming I might change house few times in next few years, what are the options?

And the most important - how much electricity does charging use (how many KWh for empty to full charge)?
Is there any general ratio of KWh used during charging to kilometres driven?

DeepBlue

Jonnykitedude wrote: »

Bought mine from the UK before Christmas and have done 10k on it since.

May I ask roughly how much they cost when bought from the UK? Also how much range does a 10 -15 minute quick charge provide?

Jonnykitedude

12,000stg with zero VRT but you can get models for 10-11k.

Depends on the temp, how much is left in battery etc but approx. 60-70km

Stavros Murphy

Jonnykitedude wrote: »

How is it huge amount of thought and effort?!?!

It's simple......I arrive home....plug in and leave the car (the timers I have set 3 months ago look after when to start and stop)
When stopping off on route home.....simple again...I plug in and grab a coffee....when I'm done I unplug and drive home.

Show me the huge time and effort?!?!

Well, seeing as these are as popular as the clap, there isn't a queue for the charging point(how many are there at the filling stations again?). Lets see how it works when there are twenty lined up waiting to get a charge. You'll need bigger coffee and donuts. Last post on this as I know there is an evangelical zeal to those running EVs and they have a fixed opinion, so I'd rather go read the papers.

Gumbo

CiniO wrote: »

What is exactly this EVSE?
Can you charge your Leaf out of any socket or do you need some modiciation of your electrical system at home? If so - what kind of modification?

You simply plug in and charge, like charging your mobile phone.

Assuming I might change house few times in next few years, what are the options?

The fixed point charger fitted by ESB can be removed by a qualified electrician and reinstalled again. Once its fitted its yours to do at your please. Just beware its an offence to carry out electrical work in your home without a qualified electrician since October 2013, so thats your only limitation.

And the most important - how much electricity does charging use (how many KWh for empty to full charge)?
Is there any general ratio of KWh used during charging to kilometres driven?

0-100% charge will cost roughly €1.70

From my understanding

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Well, seeing as these are as popular as the clap, there isn't a queue for the charging point(how many are there at the filling stations again?). Lets see how it works when there are twenty lined up waiting to get a charge. You'll need bigger coffee and donuts. Last post on this as I know there is an evangelical zeal to those running EVs and they have a fixed opinion, so I'd rather go read the papers.

I dont have an EV but i can see the appeal of them. To simply slate them and try put them down at every junction because they dont suit your personal needs is simply ignorance in my opinion. Maybe old fashioned papers is your thing.

Jonnykitedude

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Well, seeing as these are as popular as the clap, there isn't a queue for the charging point(how many are there at the filling stations again?). Lets see how it works when there are twenty lined up waiting to get a charge. You'll need bigger coffee and donuts. Last post on this as I know there is an evangelical zeal to those running EVs and they have a fixed opinion, so I'd rather go read the papers.

Ah ignorance is bliss.......enjoy your Sunday World rag!

CiniO

kceire wrote: »

From my understanding

Thanks...
So just one more question.
If you can charge it from any socket, then what is this "fixed point charger" fitted by ESB needed for?

numorouno

What is the maintenance like for the leaf?

What service intervals and could a "normal"mechanic (not main dealer) service them?

Lads please not turn this thread into the usual anti ev dribble, let's try keep it informative and factual for those interested in buying an ev.

All those who don't want one, who cares ? Don't buy one, simple. You want 200 miles range, you know it's not going to happen any time soon. There are many whom 70-80 miles range is good enough for. I know I could do my daily mileage with a 5-10 min charge over lunch. I don't do much over lunch and I'm tired of the square in tallaght, I'd rather eat a sambo and listen to a few tunes than spend more time there or be bugged in work.

CiniO

CiniO wrote: »

Thanks...
So just one more question.
If you can charge it from any socket, then what is this "fixed point charger" fitted by ESB needed for?

The fixed wall box is called the evse and allows for faster charging, the granny cable provides about 10-12 amps and can be used in a normal socket via extension cable fully extended V 16 amps with the fixed evse or 32 amps for the MK 1.5 with optional 6.6 kw charger.

jayjay2010

jayjay2010 wrote: »

Thanks for your replies guys.

Another concern I have is the battery's lifetime. I've read online that Nissan are offering a battery lease even for people who bought the car outright. This seem to defeat the purpose of actually buying the car in my eyes....

I don't want to be forced to lease a battery and pay a monthly fee.....what if I ever go travelling for half a year would I still have to pay the rental on the battery each month?

Battery life is not fully known yet, there is a guy called Steve Marsh from Seattle and he lost 20% capacity after 2 years and 100,000 miles he needed daily full fast charges.

It's not known yet though how long the battery will last in Ireland, 130 miles a day is extreme by most standards anyway, considering my commute is about 84 miles a day to think of doing 50 more would just kill me, life's too short for spending so much time commuting.

There is no battery rental option in Ireland but maybe you can rent it if you ask ?

IMO battery rental isn't necessary as they will only replace it when it reaches 70% capacity which IMO is too low! it should be replaced at 80 %

You can not currently replace the battery in any leaf that has not the battery leased , you can repair it but only back to 70%.

Rumour has it that VW will allow the battery to be replaced, but it may last longer than that in the leaf anyway, who knows too early yet to tell about either.

Stavros Murphy

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

I'd leaf it till they get the recipe sorted. Early adopters are sort of road-testing the first prototypes at their own expense. Ten, maybe fifteen years, they'll be well sorted.

Wasn't knocking the concept, at all, as it happens. I deal with EVs daily, the industrial versions - my company is the largest installer of EV guidance equipment and one of the largest installers of charging areas, in Ireland. And we're at it years. If there is an EV guidance system in a factory or warehouse in Ireland, chances are we installed it. Our charging areas are smaller, better and more efficient than others.:)


My point was simply this, it is early days. The technology is evolving so rapidly, there is just no knowing where the advances will take us in the next five years - for example, within a year, the roll-out of new-generation commercial EV Lithium ion batteries will be well under way. These offer absolutely radical advantages in weight, charging time, regenerative energy recovery and power delivery. They are a game changer and that technology will cross-over to road vehicles.

So, basically, the technology is new, evolving and constantly improving in leaps and bounds. Early adopters are driving the EV Model Ts, there's better on the way. That was my point, in a nutshell.

Daithi_2014

Is there a dedicated forum here for the EVs.
Something that could tell me what fast chargers are operational or even or even twitter feeds to follow so that I dont get stuck after a trip to Gorey if their fast charger isnt working.
There is a huge gap in fast chargers between Dublin and Gorey. Ive hear they are planning one in Arklow for the last two years but it still isnt confirmed.

Is there anywhere I can get rate of charge info for the Nissan leaf.

I would like to know how many kilometers each charger puts into the car for an hours charging, for the 3 pin evse, Type 2 on street chargers and fast chargers but i seem to only get us sites which are no good to me as they put much less into the car than uk, ire system

loinnsigh

Look for 'IrishEVOwners' on Facebook, you'll find a lot of good info there.

Also check out www.leaftalk.co.uk

The U.S info will be accurate if they are on a ( 3 phase) 240 volt circuit which many e.v owners are.

There's cracking deals in the U.K atm, lots of ex 2011 leases and dealer demo's.

12 K Euro's for a 2011-12 with 9-40K miles, that's excluding transport and home charge point installation.

deandean

The uk cars, do they come with an evse cable as standard?

I know that many of the uk cars come with a granny cable, but would a buyer need to budget 600 euro or whatever for an evse cable so he can use fast charge points here?

deandean

deandean wrote: »

The uk cars, do they come with an evse cable as standard?

I know that many of the uk cars come with a granny cable, but would a buyer need to budget 600 euro or whatever for an evse cable so he can use fast charge points here?

The U.K cars come with the portable 10 amp evse or Granny cable, they do NOT come with a type 1 (the car end) to type 2 (the charger end) cable to connect to public charge points or home evse.

The MK 1.5 with 6.6 kw optional charger does not come with the granny cable as standard, but it can still be used.

You could probably request it thrown in with the deal, they will be able to get you one anyway.

The fast chargers have a cable attached.

If going to the U.K you'll need to get a card to activate the fast chargers and they'll help you out with that over at irishevowners on facebook.

Scottie99

Deleted User wrote: »

The U.K cars come with the portable 10 amp evse or Granny cable, they do NOT come with a type 1 (the car end) to type 2 (the charger end) cable to connect to public charge points or home evse.

The MK 1.5 with 6.6 kw optional charger does not come with the granny cable as standard, but it can still be used.

You could probably request it thrown in with the deal, they will be able to get you one anyway.

The fast chargers have a cable attached.

If going to the U.K you'll need to get a card to activate the fast chargers and they'll help you out with that over at irishevowners on facebook.

Anyone heading to the Uk should sign up for a card from "charge your car". You can use Parcel Motel for delivery

The problem with the U.K seems to be the fact there are different cards for different companies, where as here there is one card for all chargers.

There seems to be 0 companies other than the ESB interested in installing charge points and fast chargers, when the current batch of chargers are installed and afaik 0 Government funding.

Scottie99

Deleted User wrote: »

The problem with the U.K seems to be the fact there are different cards for different companies, where as here there is one card for all chargers.

There seems to be 0 companies other than the ESB interested in installing charge points and fast chargers, when the current batch of chargers are installed and afaik 0 Government funding.

CYC seems to be very good and covers most

http://chargeyourcar.org.uk

I didn't finish my sentence above because I got distracted.

What I meant to say is that when the ESB complete the charger roll out this year there will be no more chargers installed until there is much greater demand.

The Irish Government afaik do not fund charger installation ? and we need much much more fast chargers installed.

I know there'll be pretty good coverage at the end of 2014 after the E.U funding is gone, but it's not enough.

I wonder what happens when Electrics can charge faster ? will they then install or upgrade existing chargers to 100 kw for example ?

Scottie99

Scottie99 wrote: »

CYC seems to be very good and covers most

http://chargeyourcar.org.uk

They've got very poor 50 kw QC coverage ?

Scottie99

Deleted User wrote: »

They've got very poor 50 kw QC coverage ?

For me CYC and Ecotricity are the ones that'll get me "home".

reboot

jayjay2010 wrote: »

Hi guys

I will try to keep this short. Basically I'm on the market for a new car and one that I've been considering is a Nissan Leaf. The idea of a car that is cheap to run and that is very high tec seems very interesting to me. Also these cars are much, much cheaper to buy in the UK and VRT is free.

My most important question is obviously about the range but also the ease of charging and length of time that it takes from a standard house socket. I don't drive long distances but I do drive every day. An overnight charge wouldn't be a problem but is there anything that I should be made aware of in terms of charging it at home? I don't think I'd ever use a public charging station as I would prefer to charge it from my home.

Is charging an issue for any current owners? I can barely keep my iPhone charged so I do have a few concerns...

Thanks a mil

If you are thinking UK ,think Zoe. I find that because the Leaf has been available in the South,some say these various Forums may look like the" Leafy Valley Country Club" Sure at one time every one bought the Model T (In Black)!There is a lot more to chose from out there don't be rushed into the wrong decision.

reboot

Deleted User wrote: »

The fixed wall box is called the evse and allows for faster charging, the granny cable provides about 10-12 amps and can be used in a normal socket via extension cable fully extended V 16 amps with the fixed evse or 32 amps for the MK 1.5 with optional 6.6 kw charger.

Beware extension cables!

reboot

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Wasn't knocking the concept, at all, as it happens. I deal with EVs daily, the industrial versions - my company is the largest installer of EV guidance equipment and one of the largest installers of charging areas, in Ireland. And we're at it years. If there is an EV guidance system in a factory or warehouse in Ireland, chances are we installed it. Our charging areas are smaller, better and more efficient than others.:)


My point was simply this, it is early days. The technology is evolving so rapidly, there is just no knowing where the advances will take us in the next five years - for example, within a year, the roll-out of new-generation commercial EV Lithium ion batteries will be well under way. These offer absolutely radical advantages in weight, charging time, regenerative energy recovery and power delivery. They are a game changer and that technology will cross-over to road vehicles.

So, basically, the technology is new, evolving and constantly improving in leaps and bounds. Early adopters are driving the EV Model Ts, there's better on the way. That was my point, in a nutshell.

Sounds reasonable?

reboot

loinnsigh wrote: »

Look for 'IrishEVOwners' on Facebook, you'll find a lot of good info there.

Thats the Country Club?

reboot

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Well, seeing as these are as popular as the clap, there isn't a queue for the charging point(how many are there at the filling stations again?). Lets see how it works when there are twenty lined up waiting to get a charge. You'll need bigger coffee and donuts. Last post on this as I know there is an evangelical zeal to those running EVs and they have a fixed opinion, so I'd rather go read the papers.

Off Thread?

reboot

Deleted User wrote: »

Battery life is not fully known yet, there is a guy called Steve Marsh from Seattle and he lost 20% capacity after 2 years and 100,000 miles he needed daily full fast charges.

It's not known yet though how long the battery will last in Ireland, 130 miles a day is extreme by most standards anyway, considering my commute is about 84 miles a day to think of doing 50 more would just kill me, life's too short for spending so much time commuting.

There is no battery rental option in Ireland but maybe you can rent it if you ask ?

IMO battery rental isn't necessary as they will only replace it when it reaches 70% capacity which IMO is too low! it should be replaced at 80 %

You can not currently replace the battery in any leaf that has not the battery leased , you can repair it but only back to 70%.

Rumour has it that VW will allow the battery to be replaced, but it may last longer than that in the leaf anyway, who knows too early yet to tell about either.

No battery rental,even in N.Ireland? Are the 3 phase SC points not 415Volts?

reboot

deandean wrote: »

The uk cars, do they come with an evse cable as standard?

I know that many of the uk cars come with a granny cable, but would a buyer need to budget 600 euro or whatever for an evse cable so he can use fast charge points here?

Renault supplied me with a free home charge point,the cable is teathered and you specify the length,mine reaches outside the garage in Summer, (In N.Ireland)

reboot

Scottie99 wrote: »

Anyone heading to the Uk should sign up for a card from "charge your car". You can use Parcel Motel for delivery

Same Ecar card works North and South,Afaik.

Dexter1979

reboot wrote: »

Are the 3 phase SC points not 415Volts?

No, 3 phase charge points just provide more power at the same amount of amps than single phase points but all still have the same charge (230 Volts).

The 3 phase charge points in Ireland are 22kW but not all SCP's are 3 phase. Currently hard to tell the difference since ESB don't show the kW on their map.

The Leaf can only handle single phase charging. The older model Leaf or the newer Leaf XE can only handle single phase at a lower current (16A). Newer Leaf or the Leaf XE with 6.6 kW charger extra can handle single phase at a higher current (32A).

Leaf has the Quick Charge DC option standard on most models except the XE. Which I think is 50A at 400V. A lot anyway.

Zoe can handle single and 3 phase charging at currents from 16A to 63A but all still at 230V.

Confused yet?

Currently Zoe is the best car to use the existing charging infrastructure,

It will charge in 1 hr from the scp 3 phase chargers and 30 mins from the qc 3 phase chargers.

It's not a bad car to drive, it's just like another Renault with a lot of extra kit and a hell of a lot better drive train.

It's a lot better to drive than the usual crappy 1.2-1.4 engines you'd typically find in such a car.

The battery rental means you'll never have to worry about it.

reboot

Dexter1979 wrote: »

No, 3 phase charge points just provide more power at the same amount of amps than single phase points but all still have the same charge (230 Volts).

The 3 phase charge points in Ireland are 22kW but not all SCP's are 3 phase. Currently hard to tell the difference since ESB don't show the kW on their map.

The Leaf can only handle single phase charging. The older model Leaf or the newer Leaf XE can only handle single phase at a lower current (16A). Newer Leaf or the Leaf XE with 6.6 kW charger extra can handle single phase at a higher current (32A).

Leaf has the Quick Charge DC option standard on most models except the XE. Which I think is 50A at 400V. A lot anyway.

Zoe can handle single and 3 phase charging at currents from 16A to 63A but all still at 230V.

Confused yet?

Not at all,the SC chargers installed by EBG in my area all have written on their base,415 Volts.Confused?