Spanish anti-austerity Protests.

Stavros Murphy

So, Our Spanish cousins have taken to the streets to protest against austerity, poverty and cut-backs (and possibly unemployment..) The protest ended in scuffles and a bit of a ruckus. Will there be more? Do they have it worse than us? Are they durty hippy slackers with a sinister agenda? Or is it reflecting the grinding unemployment and straitened circumstances many currently are having to endure?

Personally, I'm wondering what took them so long, but there you go. So, Hippies or Heroes?

orangesoda

Kinsale 1603 comes to mind, a wild bunch those Spaniards

Stavros Murphy

I do a bit of work in Spain and have been struck that things are far bleaker there unemployment and poverty wise than here. It always struck me as a bit of a simmering pot these last few years..

tomwaterford

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

So, Our Spanish cousins have taken to the streets to protest against austerity, poverty and cut-backs (and possibly unemployment..) The protest ended in scuffles and a bit of a ruckus. Will there be more? Do they have it worse than us? Are they durty hippy slackers with a sinister agenda? Or is it reflecting the grinding unemployment and straitened circumstances many currently are having to endure?

Personally, I'm wondering what took them so long, but there you go. So, Hippies or Heroes?

nearly certain they had a few massive protests in relation to this last year!!

IrishHomer

Funny the way Irish and UK news media ignoring the story all day

dxhound2005

IrishHomer wrote: »

Funny the way Irish and UK news media ignoring the story all day

I saw it on the BBC news.

comongethappy

IrishHomer wrote: »

Funny the way Irish and UK news media ignoring the story all day

Its not really.

"Protest held in country".

Its not going to get news editors pulses racing.
There are protests everywhere every day.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Instead of spending 80 million on Gareth Bale they could have bought every single one of them a Twix and had some change left over for jellies. You won't be having anyone rioting when they have a Twix and some jellies I'll have you know.

I should be in the UN.

strobe

And now with a minute by minute update, we'll hand over to our Spanish issues correspondent - Legs Eleven.

What are the latest developments Legs?

comongethappy

comongethappy wrote: »

Its not really.

"Protest held in country".

Its not going to get news editors pulses racing.
There are protests everywhere every day.

"Police shoot protesters" would grab headlines though!

dxhound2005

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

80 million for Gareth Bale and they could have bought every one of them a Twix and had some change left over for jellies. You won't be have anyone rioting when they have a Twix and some jellies I'll have you know.

I should be in the UN.

You are the Marie Antoinette of the modern age. Let them eat Twix.

Kristopherus

Always puzzled me how Spain is not one of the wealthiest nations in Europe with the billions they take in annually from tourism.

dxhound2005

Kristopherus wrote: »

Always puzzled me how Spain is not one of the wealthiest nations in Europe with the billions they take in annually from tourism.

Spain is way behind France in the number of visitors.

Ruu

strobe wrote: »

And now with a minute by minute update, we'll hand over to our Spanish issues correspondent - Legs Eleven.

What are the latest developments Legs?

Seem to have lost her there, some technical difficulties.

Sir Arthur Daley

Ruubot2 wrote: »

Seem to have lost her there, some technical difficulties.

Back to the studio.

Stavros Murphy

Kristopherus wrote: »

Always puzzled me how Spain is not one of the wealthiest nations in Europe with the billions they take in annually from tourism.

By that logic, the Aran Islands should be carpeted with gold at this stage though.

Kristopherus

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Spain is way behind France in the number of visitors.

Maybe so now, but Spain has been a haven for the Brits since the 1960s.

20Cent

Irish media don't cover protests in Dublin nevermind Spain.

Stavros Murphy

Kristopherus wrote: »

Maybe so now, but Spain has been a haven for thetight old pensioner Brits since the 1960s.

Red Nissan

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Do they have it worse than us?

You're not a fan of Top Gear then, we were treated to an episode where they were able to race around a Spanish Town in the city centre.

Mad stuff, the town was as big as Cork City and has an International Airport as well that would put Cork's Airport in the farthing place, an entire city development idle, as bad as Chernobyl, except it was not a nuclear reactor wasteland, but an economic wasteland that laid devastation to a vast city that ALL our ghost estates in Ireland could fit in just ONE block.

We have been at war, ladies and gentlemen, we have been at war and the Irish are very, very slow to understand this. Developers across Europe have laid waste to more land than Hitler, Stalin, Mao all put together, yet we outfought those.

dxhound2005

20Cent wrote: »

Irish media don't cover protests in Dublin nevermind Spain.

Check out RTE the next time there is a riot in Dublin. Or Madrid.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0322/603988-madrid-protest/

Aongus Von Bismarck

People here give out and handwring about our politicians being corrupt, but the levels of corruption amongst the Spanish political class is incredible.

The Diabolical Monocle

Who are they protesting against ... themselves ??

Like many other protests against 'the man' nothing actually gets done. Just pots banged and joints smoked.

Davarus Walrus

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

I do a bit of work in Spain and have been struck that things are far bleaker there unemployment and poverty wise than here. It always struck me as a bit of a simmering pot these last few years..

Yourself and your squad of daycent hard-working hardshaws are a pan-European movement at this stage. Raw from the university of life they slog and toil all day doing proper graft, before propping up the bars of Iberia in the evening. Back up at the crack of dawn though to put in a long day.

Stavros Murphy

Davarus Walrus wrote: »

Yourself and your squad of daycent hard-working hardshaws are a pan-European movement at this stage. Raw from the university of life they slog and toil all day doing proper graft, before propping up the bars of Iberia in the evening. Back up at the crack of dawn though to put in a long day.

Naah, I do a bit of consultancy work there, pretty dossy as it happens.
I did notice, from speaking to Spanish colleagues, that a wage of €1000 take-home a month was seen as being a very good goal for most people - kinda "the going rate". Which struck me as worrying, for us. Maybe we've a bit more "adjusting" to do yet, Fulton, me old flower.

KyussBishop

Red Nissan wrote: »

You're not a fan of Top Gear then, we were treated to an episode where they were able to race around a Spanish Town in the city centre.

Mad stuff, the town was as big as Cork City and has an International Airport as well that would put Cork's Airport in the farthing place, an entire city development idle, as bad as Chernobyl, except it was not a nuclear reactor wasteland, but an economic wasteland that laid devastation to a vast city that ALL our ghost estates in Ireland could fit in just ONE block.

We have been at war, ladies and gentlemen, we have been at war and the Irish are very, very slow to understand this. Developers across Europe have laid waste to more land than Hitler, Stalin, Mao all put together, yet we outfought those.

That's how the fraud works: Acquire land on the cheap, build something - regardless of whether or not it's socially useful or whether anyone is going to live there or not (don't have to care about that) - taking out loans from a complicit bank, to fund it - and develop on it, then sell it at an increased value (because of the development), even if the increased value is just 'on paper' since nobody is going to end up living there.

Many people working in the bank, and in the construction industry, will be earning a generous salary + bonuses + perks while the boom is building up - money they can pocket and benefit from immediately - then when the boom turns to bust, they can walk away from the economic and actual wastelands they leave behind, more wealthy than before and without being held accountable for their actions.


It's all just an excuse for funnelling large amounts of money into something (money that is created from nothing by banks, yet we're still all in debt now to repay it...) - into anything, even if it's totally useless/destructive - and just being there to siphon off as much as you can for yourself; that's how 'wealth' is generated for a lot of peoples these days.

Nonoperational

Red Nissan wrote: »

You're not a fan of Top Gear then, we were treated to an episode where they were able to race around a Spanish Town in the city centre.

Mad stuff, the town was as big as Cork City and has an International Airport as well that would put Cork's Airport in the farthing place, an entire city development idle, as bad as Chernobyl, except it was not a nuclear reactor wasteland, but an economic wasteland that laid devastation to a vast city that ALL our ghost estates in Ireland could fit in just ONE block.

We have been at war, ladies and gentlemen, we have been at war and the Irish are very, very slow to understand this. Developers across Europe have laid waste to more land than Hitler, Stalin, Mao all put together, yet we outfought those.

KyussBishop wrote: »

That's how the fraud works: Acquire land on the cheap, build something - regardless of whether or not it's socially useful or whether anyone is going to live there or not (don't have to care about that) - taking out loans from a complicit bank, to fund it - and develop on it, then sell it at an increased value (because of the development), even if the increased value is just 'on paper' since nobody is going to end up living there.

Many people working in the bank, and in the construction industry, will be earning a generous salary + bonuses + perks while the boom is building up - money they can pocket and benefit from immediately - then when the boom turns to bust, they can walk away from the economic and actual wastelands they leave behind, more wealthy than before and without being held accountable for their actions.


It's all just an excuse for funnelling large amounts of money into something (money that is created from nothing by banks, yet we're still all in debt now to repay it...) - into anything, even if it's totally useless/destructive - and just being there to siphon off as much as you can for yourself; that's how 'wealth' is generated for a lot of peoples these days.

Forget to take the pills today lads? Very important, the pills...

Stavros Murphy

Nonoperational wrote: »

Forget to take the pills today lads? Very important, the pills...

Really? Have you considered starting them?

tomwaterford

Nonoperational wrote: »

Forget to take the pills today lads? Very important, the pills...

that's right rubbish opinions different to your own

at least the second isn't sensationlist

KyussBishop

Nonoperational wrote: »

Forget to take the pills today lads? Very important, the pills...

Forgot to put forward a counterargument, or just can't be arsed with anything more than a rhetorical attack?

renegademaster

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

So, Our Spanish cousins have taken to the streets to protest against austerity, poverty and cut-backs (and possibly unemployment..) The protest ended in scuffles and a bit of a ruckus. Will there be more? Do they have it worse than us? Are they durty hippy slackers with a sinister agenda? Or is it reflecting the grinding unemployment and straitened circumstances many currently are having to endure?

Personally, I'm wondering what took them so long, but there you go. So, Hippies or Heroes?

you do realise the spanish and portugese have been protesting so much the last few years it was suggested recently that the people of western europe were being afforded too much democracy and that the right to protest should be removed from them.

it is us that need to wake up and get busy

Iwasfrozen

renegademaster wrote: »

you do realise the spanish and portugese have been protesting so much the last few years it was suggested recently that the people of western europe were being afforded too much democracy and that the right to protest should be removed from them.

it is us that need to wake up and get busy

Tell you what, you go out and I'll be right behind you.

renegademaster

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Tell you what, you go out and I'll be right behind you.

i've attended and even organised many protests myself, since 2007, helped to build occupy galway camp and helped start the jail the bankers protests in Dublin, where were ya?

sillyoulfool

renegademaster wrote: »

i've attended and even organised many protests myself, since 2007, helped to build occupy galway camp and helped start the jail the bankers protests in Dublin, where were ya?

And that got us where?
Me, I was working ( an alien concept to the occupy/jail everyone else crusties) and paying tax.

Iwasfrozen

renegademaster wrote: »

i've attended and even organised many protests myself, since 2007, helped to build occupy galway camp and helped start the jail the bankers protests in Dublin, where were ya?

I wasn't there because I hadn't made the pledge at that stage.

renegademaster

sillyoulfool wrote: »

And that got us where?
Me, I was working ( an alien concept to the occupy/jail everyone else crusties) and paying tax.

that old chestnut, it got us nowhere cos the majority failed to show up, why would the corrupt listen to handfuls of people?? also, how fcuking dare you try say paying tax, work and keeping clean was an alien concept of the occupy movement, it blows my mind how some people can remain this ignorant even after years of hindsight has proven lots of occupies worries true and factual at this stage

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I wasn't there because I hadn't made the pledge at that stage.

what are you on about?

Legs.Eleven

strobe wrote: »

And now with a minute by minute update, we'll hand over to our Spanish issues correspondent - Legs Eleven.

What are the latest developments Legs?

Sorry I'm late guys! Was just having tapas, shouting my head off, blocking up footpaths and dancing the Flamenco with Juan and Maria and the gang.


Was at the protest last night (obviously :cool: ) and it was insanely peaceful and civilised (I think I commented on that a good 20 times while I was there). Normal people of all ages from all backgrounds simply walking from one point in the city to another with no trouble whatsoever. No one drinking or causing trouble. You always have a small handful of extremists at these things but even they were fine while I was there. If they reported problems, then they were focusing in on the tiny bit of trouble there might've been out of the hundreds of thousands of people that marched last night. I have no idea why they do that but I suppose that marches that pass off peacefully for the most part is not newsworthy and doesn't sell newspapers/up TV ratings etc.


There's protests here monthly by the way and have been since I got here over 4 and a half years ago.



Over and out from your Spanish correspondent, Legs Eleven. :cool::cool::cool::cool:


.....

WakeUp

sillyoulfool wrote: »

And that got us where?
Me, I was working ( an alien concept to the occupy/jail everyone else crusties) and paying tax.

:rolleyes: damn

Guy:Incognito

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Sorry I'm late guys! Was just having tapas, shouting my head off, blocking up footpaths and dancing the Flamenco with Juan and Maria and the gang.


Was at the protest last night (obviously :cool: ) and it was insanely peaceful and civilised (I think I commented on that a good 20 times while I was there). Normal people of all ages from all backgrounds simply walking from one point in the city to another with no trouble whatsoever. No one drinking or causing trouble. You always have a small handful of extremists at these things but even they were fine while I was there. If they reported problems, then they were focusing in on the tiny bit of trouble there might've been out of the hundreds of thousands of people that marched last night. I have no idea why they do that but I suppose that marches that pass off peacefully for the most part is not newsworthy and doesn't sell newspapers/up TV ratings etc.


There's protests here monthly by the way and have been since I got here over 4 and a half years ago.



Over and out from your Spanish correspondent, Legs Eleven. :cool::cool::cool::cool:


.....

Protests to what end?

The government are taking in X amount . Do the people want them to spend X+ Y amount to make things easier? Give them more dole? Cut their tax? Where does the Y amount come from and when would they like to pay it back?

COYW

I work with a Spanish lad and he is amazed by how good things are over here compared to Spain. He couldn't find work for love nor money in Spain and found work very quickly, in IT, over here.

Legs.Eleven

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Protests to what end?

The government are taking in X amount . Do the people want them to spend X+ Y amount to make things easier? Give them more dole? Cut their tax? Where does the Y amount come from and when would they like to pay it back?

You can have a read of the manifesto in English if you like...

http://marchasdeladignidad.org/objetivos/manifiesto/manifesto/

Legs.Eleven

COYW wrote: »

I work with a Spanish lad and he is amazed by how good things are over here compared to Spain. He couldn't find work for love nor money in Spain and found work very quickly, in IT, over here.

Things are desperate here. Really, really bad. Perhaps these protests won't change a thing but at least they will raise the spirits among the millions of people in awful circumstances and show them that they're not alone. There was a great atmosphere last night and nothing like the media portrays it. My situation is not desperate but my boyfriend is unemployed and has no source of income whatsoever (you can claim dole for a max of 2 years here irrespective of how long you've worked). He's spending most of his day applying for jobs like the 4.7 million other people doing the same thing. There's is nothing here.

COYW

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Things are desperate here. Really, really bad. Perhaps these protests won't change a thing but at least they will raise the spirits among the millions of people in awful circumstances and show them that they're not alone. There was a great atmosphere last night and nothing like the media portrays it. My situation is not desperate but my boyfriend is unemployed and has no source of income whatsoever (you can claim dole for a max of 2 years here irrespective of how long you've worked). He's spending most of his day applying for jobs like the 4.7 million other people doing the same thing. There's is nothing here.

Pretty much echoes what he says alright and it is countrywide.

mayotom

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Personally, I'm wondering what took them so long, but there you go. So, Hippies or Heroes?

5 officially registered Protests per day in Madrid in 2013, its just kept under wraps

Legs.Eleven

mayotom wrote: »

5 officially registered Protests per day in Madrid in 2013, its just kept under wraps

There was another one today and there'll be another one again tomorrow. They're never-ending.

Rightwing

COYW wrote: »

I work with a Spanish lad and he is amazed by how good things are over here compared to Spain. He couldn't find work for love nor money in Spain and found work very quickly, in IT, over here.

We are lucky we speak English. Our austerity consisted of small cutbacks to the dole and we think we are in a crisis.

The Spanish need to sort themselves out. Then there will be no need for austerity. That's how things work in the real world.

flutered

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You are the Marie Antoinette of the modern age. Let them eat Twix.

naw he just wants to give them the two fingers.

mayotom

Red Nissan wrote: »

You're not a fan of Top Gear then, we were treated to an episode where they were able to race around a Spanish Town in the city centre.

Mad stuff, the town was as big as Cork City and has an International Airport as well that would put Cork's Airport in the farthing place, an entire city development idle, as bad as Chernobyl, except it was not a nuclear reactor wasteland, but an economic wasteland that laid devastation to a vast city that ALL our ghost estates in Ireland could fit in just ONE block.

.

Ha ha, but of a Rubbish episode, Typical Clarkson tripe, to make everywhere but his beloved England look Bad.

That unfinished is a Suburb of Madrid, nothing like the size of Cork. Maybe when the entire 30 year program is(never will be) finished it would reach one tenth of the population of Cork.

The Airport is located in Ciudad Real over 200km from Madrid. But implied in the program to be otherwise.

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

There was another one today and there'll be another one again tomorrow. They're never-ending.

Don´t envy you, we only get the odd one here on the coast


That said, Economically things are quiet bad over here, although there are signs of recovery here in the south, Tourism is on the up, Scandinavian, Dutch, German, Russian, Arab and Asian Markets are flocking here at the moment. Now Central Government just need to get the finger out and build on this and not mess it up again with Political greed and corruption

SpaceTime

Spain's situation is worse for a whole variety of reasons.

Their property bubble was more dramatic and had been building for much longer. The result of that was a huge over dependence on that sector.

Then, they'd a huge dependence on tourism and the UK, German and other northern EU countries cut their spending on holidays.
That had a very deep impact.

The North of Spain, Basque Country, Navarra, Catalonia and Madrid aren't as badly impacted because they've diverse economies and other industries.

The south of Spain is an economic mess at the moment with staggering levels of unemployment.

It's a far, far worse mess than Ireland.

Also, I think Irish government policies are very pragmatic. We are pulling in every favour we can pull and have gone into hyperdrive in terms od marketing the country abroad and it is paying off.

I'm not going to get political about it but given the circumstances we were in, they've really managed to avoid total disaster!

A small, relatively dynamic country, speaks English and is globally deeply globally connected is far easier to turn around than a huge economy like Spain that's largely governed on a classic left vs right dichotomy.

Red Nissan

mayotom wrote: »

That unfinished is a Suburb of Madrid, nothing like the size of Cork. Maybe when the entire 30 year program is(never will be) finished it would reach one tenth of the population of Cork.

I don't have the episode to hand but I made it Cork size because of the population expectation, be mentioned a British City as well in comparison.

Hea, he made Spain look gorgeous, I never got the impression that he was running down Spain, more highlighting a Worldwide Problem.

SpaceTime

Red Nissan wrote: »

I don't have the episode to hand but I made it Cork size because of the population expectation, be mentioned a British City as well in comparison.

Hea, he made Spain look gorgeous, I never got the impression that he was running down Spain, more highlighting a Worldwide Problem.

Bear in mind Spain tends to have high density building. You can have a population the size of Dublin in 1/4 the space.

Quite a few cities of Cork's size, say Pamplona, are very compact in comparison because most people live in 4-5 story blocks.

You'd easily have 200,000+ in a city that looks smaller than Galway.

Irish, British and some Nordic cities are very very low density in the suburbs. Spain is the other extreme. Much higher rise than most of northern Europe and the polar opposite to Ireland, Scotland, Norway etc where hardly anyone lives in an apartment.

What looks like a small development can actually be enormous due to the design.