17 year old trying to get insurance

darlynch1

Hey, just got my full license in the post there this week and i want to start driving a car my father has at home, its a VW Polo 2001 1.litre. On my own policy the cheapest quote i can get is €2800 euro so i am trying to go as a named driver under his policy to get something cheaper. We rang a few companies about this but they just say that it looks like i will be the main driver and that the insurance policy will be over 2 grand. However i know some lads (17 years of age) driving 1.9 TDi golfs, under their parents insurance for about a thousand euros and i want to know why am i getting quoted for €2500 for a car with nearly half the power?

guil

This isn't going to end well.

corktina

ask them who they are insured with. (well done on passing test!)

djimi

darlynch1 wrote: »

i know some lads (17 years of age) driving 1.9 TDi golfs, under their parents insurance for about a thousand euros and i want to know why am i getting quoted for €2500 for a car with nearly half the power?

They are most likely telling you porkies. They are not insured for a grand on a 1.9 Golf at 17, even as a named driver.

Your best bet is to ring around some brokers and see if they can get you a better deal; they usually have more leverage when negotiating with insurers. And make sure you are looking at third party fire and theft; that car is not worth insuring fully comp considering its worth.

Also take a look around at things like Aviva Ignition scheme, or the black box thing that some of the insurers (Axa I think are one) are allowing people put in their car in order to get a discount.

Ultimately the only thing that is going to significantly bring your premium down is experience and a NCB.

bazz26

Simple answer is they are not being fully truthful with their insurance company and maybe you. They are most probably down as named drivers on a parent's policy and the parent is down as the main driver. More and more insurance companies are wising up to this practice though as you are finding out.

corktina

That's what he is looking for.
Thing is , you probably have already asked for a quote in your own name OP, and "blown the gaff" so to speak on your intentions. Bear in mind if your Da has his own car insured as well, they will look sideways at him trying to take out a second policy on a second car

yawhat!

Everyone is the same at your age, think I was 22 driving on the provisional and my insurance was around 1200. Once your past the 21 age it goes down significantly.

MugMugs

Does your father already have an active insurance policy on a car OP?

Noccy_Mondy

I know that my dad is insured on two cars, a jeep and a tractor (but only the main driver on one car, a jeep and the tractor) They wouldn't let him be the main driver on the second car though. So look into that claw!

Satanta

My nephew got insured in a Pathfinder for 1200 as a named driver under his mum. I think it took a bit of doing. He went through a broker who originally got quoted 1800.

CiniO

What does "main driver" actually mean?
Is this term defined anywhere?

Is the the person who use the car most often, or maybe one doing most mileage?

Noccy_Mondy

CiniO wrote: »

What does "main driver" actually mean?
Is this term defined anywhere?

Is the the person who use the car most often, or maybe one doing most mileage?

It's supposed to be the person, as you said, that drives the car most frequently and who clocks up the most mileage. Can't see what difference it makes really?

djimi

CiniO wrote: »

What does "main driver" actually mean?
Is this term defined anywhere?

Is the the person who use the car most often, or maybe one doing most mileage?

It means exactly what is says; the main driver of the vehicle. Its a loose term and not exactly defined (ie they cant and wont check if one driver did 5k miles and the other did 4.5k miles).

It doenst matter much now anyway as insurers seems to be pricing policies on the assumtpion that the highest risk driver is the main driver, so it probably wont matter which driver is named as the main driver.

CiniO

Noccy_Mondy wrote: »

It's supposed to be the person, as you said, that drives the car most frequently and who clocks up the most mileage. Can't see what difference it makes really?

Yeap, that's all clear like that.
But what if person who uses car most frequently is not the same person who clocks up the most mileage?
Who is the "main driver" then?

djimi

CiniO wrote: »

Yeap, that's all clear like that.
But what if person who uses car most frequently is not the same person who clocks up the most mileage?
Who is the "main driver" then?

Assuming the person who uses the car most frequently actually uses it regularly then Id say its fairly likely that they clock up the most mileage. I take the point that a secondary driver could be taking trips across the country once a fortnight, but Id say its unlikely.

The opposite of the main driver is usually taken to be an occasional driver.

Like I said, its a loose definition. Its basically to cover them against mammy insuring an Impreza and handing the keys over to little Johnny who drives it 24/7 while pretending to be an occasional driver.

CiniO

djimi wrote: »

Assuming the person who uses the car most frequently actually uses it regularly then Id say its fairly likely that they clock up the most mileage. I take the point that a secondary driver could be taking trips across the country once a fortnight, but Id say its unlikely.

The opposite of the main driver is usually taken to be an occasional driver.

Like I said, its a loose definition. Its basically to cover them against mammy insuring an Impreza and handing the keys over to little Johnny who drives it 24/7 while pretending to be an occasional driver.

But does it really cover them against mammy insuring Impreza and handing the key over to little Johnny?

You could always do that (insure Impreza on mother's name and add son as named driver). And let mother do most mileage on the car (f.e. she would do longer business trips in it every Monday and Tuesday) while son would use it Wed-Sun only for local spins over the town.
This should pretty much cover any doubts, why mother is as main driver.

Unless it's now really like Noccy_Mondy said, that insurers always tent to nominate the biggest risk driver as the main driver... Which is not fair btw.

There's lots of young lads who could be really safe drivers and drive accident-less, yet insurer penalise them with crazy premiums. Unfairly IMO.

ironclaw

Answering the OPs question, if you really want cheap insurance (And cheap for a reason) check out Liberty (Ring them, don't use the online system. In 9 out of 10 cases when ringing it will be cheaper) and put one of your parents on the policy. Surprisingly, and I was skeptical myself, the premium went down by €100 with my Mum (Who will never drive the car and I told them that) on the policy as a named driver with myself as the main driver. It also went down by €200 simply because I rang them.

Although Liberty was €200 cheaper than FBD, the cover was no where near as good. So in all cases, compare like with like. I know plenty of people quoted, for example, €600 with Liberty and €900 with FBD, but that €300 'saving' would have been smoked very quickly if they made certain types of claims. (Thats just an example, not knocking either company. They both have pro's and con's)

Fair play on the passing the test btw and I urge you, if at all possible, get the policy in your name. Your mates might be being clever by having themselves as named drivers but they are earning far less of a discount as named driver. Main driver NCB is worth far more. By my calculations, 5 years of named experience equals 1 year of main driver experience.

CiniO

ironclaw wrote: »

I know plenty of people quoted, for example, €600 with Liberty and €900 with FBD, but that €300 'saving' would have been smoked very quickly if they made certain types of claims. (Thats just an example, not knocking either company. They both have pro's and con's)

Would you have any more details?
I was recently thinking about my renewal, and Liberty offers quite reasonable premium. Where's the catch then?

I'm currently with Allianz, and they come the cheapest for me, but they offer only 60 days cover abroad, which is not enough for me.

Sobanek

No kidding, but try a 1.6 petrol S40. They were dirt cheap to insure back when I was 17 - actually cheaper than the 1.0 brigade.

ironclaw

CiniO wrote: »

Would you have any more details?
I was recently thinking about my renewal, and Liberty offers quite reasonable premium. Where's the catch then?

I'm currently with Allianz, and they come the cheapest for me, but they offer only 60 days cover abroad, which is not enough for me.

I have it written somewhere but FBD have far better cover for fire brigade charges (Which can be massive) and medical cover for injured parties. A quick breakdown (And its swings and roundabouts anyway)

FBD:

Cover for personal property in your car up to €400.
Fire brigade attendance charges up to €2,000.
Passenger medical expenses up to €1,000 per passenger.
Personal accident benefits.
Replacement locks cover if your keys are stolen up to €750.

Liberty:

Medical expenses – up to €135 per person
Personal accident cover as standard - €6500 (Only if you are serious disabled or killed basically)
Loss of keys up to €435
Fire Brigade Charges - €750

etc etc The biggest one for me was the Fire Brigade and Medical. As stupid as it sounds, if someone sets your car on fire, even if you watch it burn, its your policy that has to cover it.

Noccy_Mondy

CiniO wrote: »

But does it really cover them against mammy insuring Impreza and handing the key over to little Johnny?

Aha that was me when I was 17/18. Insured as a named driver on one of the family cars at the time, and I had it every day for school! (spoiled, i know :P) I was the driver for at least 90% of the time. But like, I asked this before, as you said, if I crashed, how are they to know I drove 90% of the time, and was the main driver essentially. Anyway, I don't want to derail the thread anymore!

Sobanek

Noccy_Mondy wrote: »

Aha that was me when I was 17/18. Insured as a named driver on one of the family cars at the time, and I had it every day for school! (spoiled, i know :P) I was the driver for at least 90% of the time. But like, I asked this before, as you said, if I crashed, how are they to know I drove 90% of the time, and was the main driver essentially. Anyway, I don't want to derail the thread anymore!

Just to end OT: I know a fella who had an Integra under mammy's name.
How did they know he was the main driver? Logic - Mammy doesn't drive a car with coilovers, HIDs, huge subwoofers in the boot, racing steering wheel and son's stuff.
He got done for driving with no insurance and banned for 12 months or something like that.

CiniO

Sobanek wrote: »

Just to end OT: I know a fella who had an Integra under mammy's name.
How did they know he was the main driver? Logic - Mammy doesn't drive a car with coilovers, HIDs, huge subwoofers in the boot, racing steering wheel and son's stuff.
He got done for driving with no insurance and banned for 12 months or something like that.

Was he not named on the policy?
If he was, I can't see how could he be done for driving with no insurance?

CiniO

ironclaw wrote: »

I have it written somewhere but FBD have far better cover for fire brigade charges (Which can be massive) and medical cover for injured parties. A quick breakdown (And its swings and roundabouts anyway)

FBD:

Cover for personal property in your car up to €400.
Fire brigade attendance charges up to €2,000.
Passenger medical expenses up to €1,000 per passenger.
Personal accident benefits.
Replacement locks cover if your keys are stolen up to €750.

Liberty:

Medical expenses – up to €135 per person
Personal accident cover as standard - €6500 (Only if you are serious disabled or killed basically)
Loss of keys up to €435
Fire Brigade Charges - €750

etc etc The biggest one for me was the Fire Brigade and Medical. As stupid as it sounds, if someone sets your car on fire, even if you watch it burn, its your policy that has to cover it.

Ahh allright. I see what kind of differences you mean.

Fire Brigade Charges - what would normally be the bill like?
Are you saying that €750 might just not be enough to cover it?

CiniO

Noccy_Mondy wrote: »

Aha that was me when I was 17/18. Insured as a named driver on one of the family cars at the time, and I had it every day for school! (spoiled, i know :P) I was the driver for at least 90% of the time. But like, I asked this before, as you said, if I crashed, how are they to know I drove 90% of the time, and was the main driver essentially. Anyway, I don't want to derail the thread anymore!

Hmm. IMO that's really pita that in Ireland young drivers need to pay such crazy premiums, even if they never crash.
No wonder anyone is trying to cheat somehow on the system.

When I got my first car (in Poland) at the age of 19, I could add my father to my policy and use his NCB (60% discount). This made my premium very cheap.
My dad used his NCB both on his car and mine.
If any of us crashed, NCB would be gone on both cars, so my dad was taking the risk. But at least I had an option to buy policy cheap. And it was 100% legal.

Sobanek

CiniO wrote: »

Was he not named on the policy?
If he was, I can't see how could he be done for driving with no insurance?

Something with not complying with the terms and conditions and the insurance was basically void.

carzony

No matter what it will be expensive..

when I was 19 I paid 3 grand in cash to axa for a 1.2 opel corsa.. On my own policy btw...

Now i'm 21 and my policy this year was 800 on a 1.6 focus so things arent to bad now..

V.W.L 11

carzony wrote: »

No matter what it will be expensive..

when I was 19 I paid 3 grand in cash to axa for a 1.2 opel corsa.. On my own policy btw...

Now i'm 21 and my policy this year was 800 on a 1.6 focus so things arent to bad now..

€800 on a 1.6 focus at 21???where the f**k am i going wrong.

carzony

V.W.L 11 wrote: »

€800 on a 1.6 focus at 21???where the f**k am i going wrong.

well i'v had my NCB's and been with First Ireland now for 2 years and I have to say they really look after me on price.


This year every other company wanted 1500 on the focus.. First Ireland quoted me the 800 right away I also have open drive aswell

V.W.L 11

carzony wrote: »

well i'v had my NCB's and been with First Ireland now for 2 years and I have to say they really look after me on price.


This year every other company wanted 1500 on the focus.. First Ireland quoted me the 800 right away

I'm 28 with 6 years ncb,full licence,on a 1.6 laguna,cost................................ €600

carzony

V.W.L 11 wrote: »

I'm 28 with 6 years ncb,full licence,on a 1.6 laguna,cost................................ €600

I have my license 4 years so that helps me aswell I suppose.

I'v always been lucky with my quotes over the years.. My polciy expires in may and i'm 22 next week so we'll see what happens this year :eek: I might try off load the focus though. killing me on tax.. i'm only a student like :P:P:P

V.W.L 11

carzony wrote: »

I have my license 4 years so that helps me aswell I suppose.

I'v always been lucky with my quotes over the years.. My polciy expires in may and i'm 22 next week so we'll see what happens this year :eek: I might try off load the focus though. killing me on tax.. i'm only a student like :P:P:P

Must try first ireland!if mine aint less than €500 on renewal(next month) i'll switch,if its that costly why not opt for a micra or something of similar engine size?the tax is a killer i agree,€514 a year to drive into potholes feck sake

djimi

CiniO wrote: »

Was he not named on the policy?
If he was, I can't see how could he be done for driving with no insurance?

He was done for his own stupidity really. We all abused the named driver thing at one point (there was a time where it was nigh on impossible to get on the road as a teenager if you had to afford your own policy), but if you were sensible about it then there was no issue. Driving around in a done up car that is in your ma's name is just asking for trouble; as Sobanek said there are very few mothers in Ireland that drive modified Integras!

goz83

My first insurance at 19 was in a 1.4 astra and cost €4700 tpft. I wasn't a named driver.

CiniO

djimi wrote: »

He was done for his own stupidity really. We all abused the named driver thing at one point (there was a time where it was nigh on impossible to get on the road as a teenager if you had to afford your own policy), but if you were sensible about it then there was no issue. Driving around in a done up car that is in your ma's name is just asking for trouble; as Sobanek said there are very few mothers in Ireland that drive modified Integras!

I sounds bit unbelievable to me.
Once there was policy in place, legal obligation of insurance was fulfilled.
So could have not been done for no insurance if he was a named driver.

If he lied to insurer about some facts, the insurer after discovering it was lies, could cancel the policy.
Alternatively, if they discovered about the lies only after claim arose, they could recoup amount paid to third party from him.

But I can't see how could he have been done for driving without insurance, assuming policy was valid and he was named driver.

ironclaw

CiniO wrote: »

But I can't see how could he have been done for driving without insurance, assuming policy was valid and he was named driver.

I'm guessing but I would imagine he was advised he policy was null and void. Didn't return the disk and got pulled one day. Check done and no insurance present.

I just had a flick through my policy booklet, and it actually doesn't specify a named versus main driver. So at least for me, it doesn't seem to matter if you are a named or primary driver (The only difference being NCB accrual) That said, when I took ownership of the car from a family member I had to inform my insurer and they advised me that upon renewal I would have to be the 'main' driver as the car was now in my name. So perhaps that is the difference, the 'main' driver is the owner of the car. Which would make sense. I suppose common sense would imply that 45 year old Mary isn't going to own and insure a WRX in Donegal.

omicron

ironclaw wrote: »

Answering the OPs question, if you really want cheap insurance (And cheap for a reason) check out Liberty (Ring them, don't use the online system. In 9 out of 10 cases when ringing it will be cheaper) and put one of your parents on the policy. Surprisingly, and I was skeptical myself, the premium went down by €100 with my Mum (Who will never drive the car and I told them that) on the policy as a named driver with myself as the main driver. It also went down by €200 simply because I rang them.

Although Liberty was €200 cheaper than FBD, the cover was no where near as good. So in all cases, compare like with like. I know plenty of people quoted, for example, €600 with Liberty and €900 with FBD, but that €300 'saving' would have been smoked very quickly if they made certain types of claims. (Thats just an example, not knocking either company. They both have pro's and con's)

Fair play on the passing the test btw and I urge you, if at all possible, get the policy in your name. Your mates might be being clever by having themselves as named drivers but they are earning far less of a discount as named driver. Main driver NCB is worth far more. By my calculations, 5 years of named experience equals 1 year of main driver experience.

My case was actually the opposite, aged 20, driving a 1.2 no NCB but 2yrs named driving experience. FBD quoted me 730, Liberty 1150, everyone else >1300. Rang liberty and pleaded for a bit but wouldn't budge. Only difference in cover that I can see is that with FBD you have no 3rd party extension unless you're 25 whereas with Liberty you have ( I think).

CiniO

ironclaw wrote: »

I'm guessing but I would imagine he was advised he policy was null and void. Didn't return the disk and got pulled one day. Check done and no insurance present.

It makes sense, but that's driving without insurance. Not like someone insinuated - driving with insurance where main driver was falsely declared.

I just had a flick through my policy booklet, and it actually doesn't specify a named versus main driver. So at least for me, it doesn't seem to matter if you are a named or primary driver (The only difference being NCB accrual) That said, when I took ownership of the car from a family member I had to inform my insurer and they advised me that upon renewal I would have to be the 'main' driver as the car was now in my name. So perhaps that is the difference, the 'main' driver is the owner of the car. Which would make sense. I suppose common sense would imply that 45 year old Mary isn't going to own and insure a WRX in Donegal.

Policy booklet might not specify it, but you could have accepted it in one of assumptions when purchasing policy, that policy holder is main driver.
Or it could have been one of the questions insurer asked you when you were obtaining your quote.


Anyway - few years back we had this situation with my wife.
I had a car (was registered owner) and I had a policy on it, while my wife was a named driver. I was clearly "main driver" according to my insurer.
However car was used 5 days a week by my wife for commuting to work. It's 40km round trip, so she was doing 200km a week approx - 10k a year.
I was using car only 2 days a week + holidays - however this accounted for most mileage, as I was doing about 20k a year.
So my wife was using the car most often, while I was doing most mileage.
I never mentioned anything to my insurer - I assumed me being as main driver was OK.
One day she had accident and car was written off.
They paid money no problem without asking any questions, even though difference in experience between us was big. I was about 8 years no clams driving, while she was only added to my policy 2 years before that accident.
She drove for 10 years, but she was never policy holder, nor named on any other policy, so it was impossible to prove she had any experience driving - so in insurers eyes she was unexperienced at all at the moment I was adding her to my policy.
And still - they said and asked nothing during the claims.

nidge123

All i can say is wait till your 18 years of age, my son was on my policy at start, it was with aviva, i cannot remember what exactly we paid for first 6 months but he had 12 driving lessons and my husband insured with aviva also so he could drive either of our cars but we had to be with him at all times, approx price was 500 to 600 euro when the six months was up my son had to be added as a named driver but they really screwed us with what they charged but he applied for driving test so we had no choice. When my policy was up i went to axa for insurance, in the mean time my son passed his driving test and bought his own car, he was starting college he got quote from oliver murphy broker waterford for 3 k but instead waited the few weeks till he was 18 and took out his own policy for 1500 with oliver murphy... Insurnce company was asgard i believe .. But a major differencee from quote with full licence for 17 years old. When he got to 18 and had 12 months as a named driver it was well worth the wait

ironclaw

omicron wrote: »

My case was actually the opposite, aged 20, driving a 1.2 no NCB but 2yrs named driving experience. FBD quoted me 730, Liberty 1150, everyone else >1300. Rang liberty and pleaded for a bit but wouldn't budge. Only difference in cover that I can see is that with FBD you have no 3rd party extension unless you're 25 whereas with Liberty you have ( I think).

There is a good bit of difference in the cover alright. But yes, the major one is the third party extension (Which I kinda needed) However, its just third party. So it doesn't cover the car or you or your passengers. Just who you hit. So honestly, with everything else that FBD offered, wasn't worth it for myself.

I'm pretty sure when you ring for a quote they spin a magic wheel anyway :pac:

@Cinio, yeah thats an interesting situaiton. But from a mathematical and statistical standpoint, on the whole, your wife would be a lower risk. As the average husband-wife would both be driving and have some experience. Insurers know this, calculate the risk and build it into the premium. Its why actuaries are paid so much. This is in pale contrast to a mother-son where its pretty obvious the son is inexperienced and is just putting the mum on the log book / policy for the purpose of lowering a premium. Its not so much about who drives the most, or clocks up the miles, its the average risk to the insurance company when calculated across the whole populous. The only time they ask questions is if someone goes 'Yeah, this is suspicious' i.e. Son writes off WRX (Owned by Mum) versus wife writes off the family Laguna etc.

NaNaNa1

Just after my 18th I got insured with Asgard (through First Ireland) for €1845 on a 1ltr Micra. They're not the easiest to deal with (once spent almost €20 in calls to them because of silly mix ups) but they're the cheapest I could find. Axa and a few others were all quoting over €2500 and I even got an outlandish quote for €4500 because I'd never been a named driver.