Current working conditions for NCHDs

pc11

Are all NCHDs now being paid fully for overtime?

How is it dealing with HR now regarding hours and pay? Are you on a reasonable roster and are you actually getting to stick with it most of the time?

Basically, are you happy since the new rules are supposed to be in??

Med student here, so I'm very interested in how things are now.

pc11

Very glad to see everyone must be very happy now, all complaints are over.

Icemancometh

Well, as ever, it varies from hospital to hospital. It's pretty impossible for anyone to answer such a general query with specifics, and while I can speak about my experiences, I'd rather not say what hospital I work at.

Roster is ok, and my team are pretty good about sticking to it. Its 24 hour shifts, and occasionally stay 1-2 hour post to finish up. The shifts are very busy though, breaks are hard to come by never mind getting some sleep. Only started in my current role in January, so post all the strike changes. Don't think an awful lot in my area (medicine) has changed, but I think surgery had to make some serious adjustments.

HR here aren't too bad. Can be difficult getting the rosters promptly, and no one seems to have responsibility for co-ordinating leave with on call requirements, so people have to come in sometimes on their time off.

In terms of getting paid for OT, I don't really do a lot of unrostered OT (maybe 5 hours per week). It doesn't bother me, so I don't look for it to be paid. I don't think they're paying it. They're demanding we take time-in-lieu, but I think you're entitled to the money, but no one's getting it.

Xeyn

Agree it's very hospital specific and departmental specific as well.
Where I work I am still doing 36 hour calls apart from Fridays and Saturdays which are 24-26 hours. There's usually only a reg and SHO in a team so if you're on call and have theatre the next day you can't turn around and say I'm off unless you want to alienate yourself from your colleagues and bosses. As you can see some hospitals need a serious overhaul of services to be even 24 hours compliant never mind EWTD compliant. As for overtime - they have no choice as we have no choice but to work it and there's is next to no chance of us getting that time back as time in lieu unless they want to give us each an extra month of annual leave.

pc11

Icemancometh wrote: »

Well, as ever, it varies from hospital to hospital. It's pretty impossible for anyone to answer such a general query with specifics, and while I can speak about my experiences, I'd rather not say what hospital I work at.

Roster is ok, and my team are pretty good about sticking to it. Its 24 hour shifts, and occasionally stay 1-2 hour post to finish up. The shifts are very busy though, breaks are hard to come by never mind getting some sleep. Only started in my current role in January, so post all the strike changes. Don't think an awful lot in my area (medicine) has changed, but I think surgery had to make some serious adjustments.

HR here aren't too bad. Can be difficult getting the rosters promptly, and no one seems to have responsibility for co-ordinating leave with on call requirements, so people have to come in sometimes on their time off.

In terms of getting paid for OT, I don't really do a lot of unrostered OT (maybe 5 hours per week). It doesn't bother me, so I don't look for it to be paid. I don't think they're paying it. They're demanding we take time-in-lieu, but I think you're entitled to the money, but no one's getting it.

Thanks for the info. All I was looking for was specific examples, I didn't think anyone could answer for every case.

take everything

Xeyn wrote: »

Agree it's very hospital specific and departmental specific as well.
Where I work I am still doing 36 hour calls apart from Fridays and Saturdays which are 24-26 hours. There's usually only a reg and SHO in a team so if you're on call and have theatre the next day you can't turn around and say I'm off unless you want to alienate yourself from your colleagues and bosses. As you can see some hospitals need a serious overhaul of services to be even 24 hours compliant never mind EWTD compliant. As for overtime - they have no choice as we have no choice but to work it and there's is next to no chance of us getting that time back as time in lieu unless they want to give us each an extra month of annual leave.

Take the extra month of annual leave and insist they get a locum.
Sorry i was dreaming there for minute.

pc11

Xeyn wrote: »

Agree it's very hospital specific and departmental specific as well.
Where I work I am still doing 36 hour calls apart from Fridays and Saturdays which are 24-26 hours. There's usually only a reg and SHO in a team so if you're on call and have theatre the next day you can't turn around and say I'm off unless you want to alienate yourself from your colleagues and bosses. As you can see some hospitals need a serious overhaul of services to be even 24 hours compliant never mind EWTD compliant. As for overtime - they have no choice as we have no choice but to work it and there's is next to no chance of us getting that time back as time in lieu unless they want to give us each an extra month of annual leave.

I see. So 24 hours max has not happened then despite all the promises.
Can you say where you work or even what department or area?

Breezer

24 hours has happened in some hospitals but not others. However, in one hospital I know of, NCHDs have being reporting breaches of the 24 hour limit to the IMO for months. NCHDs offered alternative rosters to HR on several occasions and were ignored, so the report forms kept coming. A few weeks ago, Eric Young of the IMO showed up for a meeting. No idea what was said in the meeting, but overnight the call changed to 24 hours.

Change is possible but people need to stand up for themselves.

25-26 hours is too much. 24 is already a compromise, and is still illegal. Any 'finishing up' or handover should take place within the 24 hours.

his_dudeness

In my hospital, in a unnamed city on the Shannon, HR have actually been very proactive, but are getting pushback form consultants (no surprises there) but also from NCHDs themselves, which does have to make you wonder why they went on strike at all.

13 hours Shift systems have been brought in for most medical and surgical staff for most of the week and its 24 hour call for the majority of the rest, but usually coming in a 25, 26 hours. There are a few notable persistent exceptions, that in reality need political intervention to fix.

NCHDs aren't reporting in breaches which is unfortunate

Annabella1

reactivating this thread...
The DOH/HSE are in deep trouble over this EU ruling-abuse has been rife for years
I see the head of Acute Services HSE talking about closing A+E's /maternity units
Will this happen a year out from an election?

echo beach

Annabella1 wrote: »

I see the head of Acute Services HSE talking about closing A+E's /maternity units
Will this happen a year out from an election?

No.
Government TDs re already facing an uphill battle to get re-elected. Close services in any hospital and they needn't even bother standing in that constituency.

take everything

I would love to see an NCHD with balls suing the HSE. It seems like a slam dunk to me.

etymon

I am very happy. Intern in a Dublin hospital, all overtime paid, no hoops to jump through, very supportive Consultants. I have never worked more than a 12 hour shift. I would be happy to recommend intern year choices via PM if anyone wants to work somewhere nice :-)

sillymoo

etymon wrote: »

I am very happy. Intern in a Dublin hospital, all overtime paid, no hoops to jump through, very supportive Consultants. I have never worked more than a 12 hour shift. I would be happy to recommend intern year choices via PM if anyone wants to work somewhere nice :-)

My god that sounds like utopia! What a difference compared to my internship (not so long ago tbh). And don't get my started on what I endured as a medical SHO!!!!

Enjoy buddy. I'm very glad things have changed for those coming behind and I'm glad that I had (a very) small part to play in that.

A Neurotic

etymon wrote: »

I am very happy. Intern in a Dublin hospital, all overtime paid, no hoops to jump through, very supportive Consultants. I have never worked more than a 12 hour shift. I would be happy to recommend intern year choices via PM if anyone wants to work somewhere nice :-)

Which hospital, out of interest, if you don't mind me asking?

etymon

Connolly. It's a really lovely place and everyone knows each other. Nurses are generally sound and some even do cannulas. We don't have to do antibiotics, FOBs or ECGS!!! Ten minute drive from town always against traffic :-)

PS nearly everyone is on 12 hours shift max now. Some interns this year did do 24 hour shifts on surgery but the rota will be compliant when I start my surgery in April.

A Neurotic

etymon wrote: »

Connolly. It's a really lovely place and everyone knows each other. Nurses are generally sound and some even do cannulas. We don't have to do antibiotics, FOBs or ECGS!!! Ten minute drive from town always against traffic :-)

PS nearly everyone is on 12 hours shift max now. Some interns this year did do 24 hour shifts on surgery but the rota will be compliant when I start my surgery in April.

Oh, cool. Good to know. Have a couple of Connolly jobs on my list. Cheers!

masterboy123

Working as Psych NCHD.
Getting all overtime paid. However, calls are hard, given after 10 PM its off-site, and most nights you would have to come to site and then from 9 AM you do ward round and clinics, etc. So basically 3-4 hours of sleep if you're lucky and work again next day till 5 PM.

etymon

masterboy123 wrote: »

Working as Psych NCHD.
Getting all overtime paid. However, calls are hard, given after 10 PM its off-site, and most nights you would have to come to site and then from 9 AM you do ward round and clinics, etc. So basically 3-4 hours of sleep if you're lucky and work again next day till 5 PM.

Starting Psych in July… hopefully not in the same hospital :eek: they will surely have to change that arrangement to be compliant though?

sillymoo

etymon wrote: »

Starting Psych in July… hopefully not in the same hospital :eek: they will surely have to change that arrangement to be compliant though?

Where I work psych is the same - in house until 8pm and then from home, will get called in. Work the next day.

masterboy123

Due to often calls from hospital and assessments, they are planning to change it to on site 24 hours and off next day.

etymon wrote: »

Starting Psych in July… hopefully not in the same hospital :eek: they will surely have to change that arrangement to be compliant though?

Breezer

etymon wrote: »

Connolly. It's a really lovely place and everyone knows each other.

It's certainly one of the nicer hospitals to work in. I've worked there several times over a few years. I did have to get the IMO involved not once, but twice during my last placement there, to deal with Admin. It worked, but bottom line is you need to stand up for yourself no matter where you are.

etymon

Psych-wise, does anyone have any views on James' vs. Tallaght? Not sure where to put first on my preferences and no experience of either hospital.