Fury v Chisora II

Andrew Flexing

Anyone interested in this one??

I think it could be interesting, Chisora has improved a lot since the last time they met.

Predicitons anyone? I am going to go for Fury on points

AdolfHipster

Interesting fight in terms of the two of them but does nothing for the division at all. Fury by UD also

FTA69

pac_man wrote: »

Just seen his press conference there were he flipped the table. Talk about staged!

He's so ridiculous you just have to love him.

HigginsJ

A good fight for the two guys as they will both look competitive & can then claim to deserve a shot at Klitscho. It's a fight I won't have much interest in.

Chisora is clearly not a world level fighter & I suspect neither is Fury. With the fights coming up for the WBC strap Chisora-Fury is an afterthought.

Fury really irritates me but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt to get a narrow decision over Chisora.

Andrew Flexing

flipped a table at a press conference..??? Ill check if its on YT.

I'd much rather see somwthing like Joshua v Fury or Wilder v Shannon Briggs than this rematch.

walshb

Chisora is crap. I expect a focused and committed Fury to hammer him, if he can't, forget it!

FTA69

Andrew Flexing wrote: »

flipped a table at a press conference..??? Ill check if its on YT.

I'd much rather see somwthing like Joshua v Fury or Wilder v Shannon Briggs than this rematch.

Fury would smash Joshua to pieces inside four rounds. The man is at the rawest stage possible for a heavyweight boxer and has only fought cans. I wish people would give him a chance to grow rather than hyping him up to ridiculous levels.

rebelomar

HigginsJ wrote: »

A good fight for the two guys as they will both look competitive & can then claim to deserve a shot at Klitscho. It's a fight I won't have much interest in.

Chisora is clearly not a world level fighter & I suspect neither is Fury. With the fights coming up for the WBC strap Chisora-Fury is an afterthought.

Fury really irritates me but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt to get a narrow decision over Chisora.

Yeah but what is currently world level in the HW division outside Wlad?

Povekin was dire, Haye was poor also vs Wlad. Chisora and Fury aren't maybe world class in previous eras but today are top 10 IMO

I think it's a pretty decent HW fight in 2014's standards

walshb

rebelomar wrote: »

Yeah but what is currently world level in the HW division outside Wlad?

Povekin was dire, Haye was poor also vs Wlad. Chisora and Fury aren't maybe world class in previous eras but today are top 10 IMO

I think it's a pretty decent HW fight in 2014's standards

Forgetting eras and standards, Chisora is dirt. An out and out plodder.

boxer.fan

walshb wrote: »

Forgetting eras and standards, Chisora is dirt. An out and out plodder.

Agree with this. A spoofer at heavyweight. Don't mean to make light of his achievements but hes not even a gatekeeper. I can't see him landing too much on Fury. Fury to get the stoppage 5 or 6 rounds in.

megadodge

boxer.fan wrote: »

Agree with this. A spoofer at heavyweight. Don't mean to make light of his achievements but hes not even a gatekeeper. I can't see him landing too much on Fury. Fury to get the stoppage 5 or 6 rounds in.

I would be surprised to see Fury stop him. Very surprised. I'll be putting money against that happening.

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

Forgetting eras and standards, Chisora is dirt. An out and out plodder.

If he's so bad, how come he gave Vitali such a tough fight? Was never remotely in trouble there.

megadodge

FTA69 wrote: »

Fury would smash Joshua to pieces inside four rounds. The man is at the rawest stage possible for a heavyweight boxer and has only fought cans. I wish people would give him a chance to grow rather than hyping him up to ridiculous levels.

He absolutely would NOT. If they were to fight right now the only early finish that is likely to happen would be Fury getting KO'd. Once it goes past the first 4-5 rounds then Fury would have to be favoured, purely on the stamina and experience factors, but he has less skill and less power and a far from stellar chin, so I really can't see how you could reach that conclusion.

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

If he's so bad, how come he gave Vitali such a tough fight? Was never remotely in trouble there.

Are you for real? Vitali won every rd. He boxed the head off the plodder. Got tired hitting him. Wasn't remotely close, or tough.

gene_tunney

walshb wrote: »

Are you for real? Vitali won every rd. He boxed the head off the plodder. Got tired hitting him. Wasn't remotely close, or tough.

Disagree. Vitali was under pressure at times and lost a few rounds on my card if I remember correctly.

walshb

gene_tunney wrote: »

Disagree. Vitali was under pressure at times and lost a few rounds on my card if I remember correctly.

I must watch it again. He may have given a way a few rds with taking a break, but when he committed he was streets ahead. It wasn't at all competitive when he opened up. Anyway, that was an old and past it Vitali. The scores were 10-2 x 2 and 11-1 in rds.

gene_tunney

walshb wrote: »

O must watch it again. He may have given a way a few rds with taking a break, but when he committed he was streets ahead. It wasn't at all competitive when he opened up. Anyway, that was an old and past it Vitali.

I'm not sure as my memory may deceive me, but I thought I scored it 8-4 Vitali

Littlehorny

Didn't Vitali injure his left arm in the Chisora fight? He had no jab for a good while and beat Chisora with mostly his right.

HigginsJ

rebelomar wrote: »

Yeah but what is currently world level in the HW division outside Wlad?

Povekin was dire, Haye was poor also vs Wlad. Chisora and Fury aren't maybe world class in previous eras but today are top 10 IMO

I think it's a pretty decent HW fight in 2014's standards

Haye was (& will be once he returns) streets ahead of Fury & Chisora.

I agree they are top 10 ( just about) but I think it just shows the sad state of the HW division.

Apart from the obvious guys like Wilder, Perez, (& yes Joshua) who could brighten the HW division in the next couple of years.

FTA69

megadodge wrote: »

He absolutely would NOT. If they were to fight right now the only early finish that is likely to happen would be Fury getting KO'd. Once it goes past the first 4-5 rounds then Fury would have to be favoured, purely on the stamina and experience factors, but he has less skill and less power and a far from stellar chin, so I really can't see how you could reach that conclusion.

Joshua isn't even ranked in the top 30 for God's sake. He has had 5 fights, all of them against tomato cans, complete nobodies. The last fella was a cruiserweight who didn't even throw a punch. So on what are we basing the fact that Joshua deserves to be put up there with people who have fought actual and proven heavyweights?

I have no doubt that he has the makings of a good pro, but he is nowhere near that level yet and if you stuck him in against anyone in the top 10 he'd be flattened.

walshb

FTA69 wrote: »

Joshua isn't even ranked in the top 30 for God's sake. He has had 5 fights, all of them against tomato cans, complete nobodies. The last fella was a cruiserweight who didn't even throw a punch. So on what are we basing the fact that Joshua deserves to be put up there with people who have fought actual and proven heavyweights?

I have no doubt that he has the makings of a good pro, but he is nowhere near that level yet and if you stuck him in against anyone in the top 10 he'd be flattened.

Fury is far from proven. Joshua has had many many amateur bouts as well. It stands for something. He is a big and ripped and skilled boxer. Just because he's only been a pro for 5-6 fights doesn't mean that the likes of Fury steam roll him. God forbid if Joshua lands a clean shot on Fury? Is that not possible? Tomas Adamek is ranked ring 9? You saying Joshua has little chance against a man who is a CW?

FTA69

walshb wrote: »

Fury is far from proven. Joshua has had many many amateur bouts as well. It stands for something. He is a big and ripped and skilled boxer. Just because he's only been a pro for 5-6 fights doesn't mean that the likes of Fury steam roll him. God forbid if Joshua lands a clean shot on Fury? Is that not possible? Tomas Adamek is ranked ring 9? You saying Joshua has little chance against a man who is a CW?

Fury is far from the finished article but he has beaten legitimate contenders and a former cruiser weight champion. Joshua has fought nobody and his skillset still leaves a huge amount of work. Amateur boxing and pro boxing are two different things. Audrey Harrison had a super heavy gold medal too. Mark Breland was a gold medalist, Lomachenko is one of the best amateurs of his generation and he came up short recently too. Joshua has done nothing of note yet and people are hyping up to ridiculous proportions.

walshb

FTA69 wrote: »

Fury is far from the finished article but he has beaten legitimate contenders and a former cruiser weight champion. Joshua has fought nobody and his skillset still leaves a huge amount of work. Amateur boxing and pro boxing are two different things. Audrey Harrison had a super heavy gold medal too. Mark Breland was a gold medalist, Lomachenko is one of the best amateurs of his generation and he came up short recently too. Joshua has done nothing of note yet and people are hyping up to ridiculous proportions.

But he's a big HW with a punch and skill. It's not that crazy to think that he could beat Fury or some others even at this stage.

BTW, Breland made it to the top. If you are saying Joshua gets flattened then you are implying that his chin won't be up to it when it's tagged? Does this not imply that no matter how much he goes on he will always get flattened? I don't think experience will put much resistance on his chin. It may make him cuter and more rugged, but can he take the clean shots?

Really, there's probably only one way he loses now to these guys, and that's getting knocked out. Sure, he could loses on points, but you aren't saying this. You think he gets flattened.

Do you think an improved skill-set means that in future fights his chin won't get tested? That he won't get flattened? It can happen now, tomorrow or in years to come.

walshb

FTA69 wrote: »

Lomachenko is one of the best amateurs of his generation and he came up short recently too. Joshua has done nothing of note yet and people are hyping up to ridiculous proportions.

Lomachenko almost won. He was not close to getting flattened. Different scenario to what you are saying as regards Joshua.

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

Are you for real? Vitali won every rd. He boxed the head off the plodder. Got tired hitting him. Wasn't remotely close, or tough.

Chisora certainly did have his moments and made Vitali look very ordinary at times. Vitali certainly won, but he was made work all the way. Not bad for a piece of "dirt".

megadodge

FTA69 wrote: »

Joshua isn't even ranked in the top 30 for God's sake. He has had 5 fights, all of them against tomato cans, complete nobodies. The last fella was a cruiserweight who didn't even throw a punch. So on what are we basing the fact that Joshua deserves to be put up there with people who have fought actual and proven heavyweights?

I have no doubt that he has the makings of a good pro, but he is nowhere near that level yet and if you stuck him in against anyone in the top 10 he'd be flattened.

You're missing the point completely. If Joshua fought Fury right now, his best chance of winning would be early. He hits very hard, has very good fundamentals and Fury doesn't have a great chin. On the other hand, Fury would be looking at taking it past the early rounds when Joshua would be at his most dangerous. I suspect Fury would just jab and move for 5-6 rounds, then start opening up when/if Joshua starts tiring. In other words the chances of him even trying to "blast Joshua out of it in under 4 rounds" and giving his opponent his best chance of victory are unlikely.

Although, Fury is mad enough to try it.

barney4001

Odlandier Solis
Tony Thompson

be good to see how Fury might fare against these two ,doubt if it ever happen though

boxer.fan

pac_man wrote: »

I'm surprised that Fury is held in such high regard on this forum. He's very erratic and then only time i was ever impressed was his performance against Martin Rogan.

IMO Fury deserves to be in that position. He has the height, reach & power to be a menace to everyone in the division. More importantly he appears to have decent recovery ability when caught cold. If Price had any durability in his chin he would be held in the same regard.

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

Chisora certainly did have his moments and made Vitali look very ordinary at times. Vitali certainly won, but he was made work all the way. Not bad for a piece of "dirt".

What moments? The ones where Vitali was resting and easing off? Chisora is at best a decent plodder.

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

What moments? The ones where Vitali was resting and easing off? Chisora is at best a decent plodder.

So you think going 12 rounds with a world champion of Vitali Klitchko's ability (who has been championed on this very forum as the best ever by some - not me) is nothing?

In 47 fights only 4 men have gone the distance with Vitali. Chisora is one. I think that makes him more than a decent plodder.

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

So you think going 12 rounds with a world champion of Vitali Klitchko's ability (who has been championed on this very forum as the best ever by some - not me) is nothing?

In 47 fights only 4 men have gone the distance with Vitali. Chisora is one. I think that makes him more than a decent plodder.

Ok, so now it's gone from giving Vitali a very tough fight to going the distance with him? He went the distance with a man who is past his best, yet still enough in him to win very comfortably. He dominated Chisora. You seem to think that Chisora gave him a tough fight, "he gave Vitali such a tough fight." He did not.

No matter what way I look at Chisora to me he's not all that impressive.

Lucy and Harry

Vitali got a shoulder injury during the fight an was going to quit on the stool.He only went on because Chisora had spat in his brothers face.He would not let a guy he disliked take the belt. Vitali beat Chisora with one arm.

walshb

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

Vitali got a shoulder injury during the fight an was going to quit on the stool.He only went on because Chisora had spat in his brothers face.He would not let a guy he disliked take the belt. Vitali beat Chisora with one arm.

That's what I recall from the fight, and mentioned by another poster too, that Vitali had an arm injury. Even with this he won by a country mile. Chisora had nothing to trouble him with. Too slow and ponderous. Yes, by HW professional standards, a decent plodder!

3mm

fury to win by TKO in the first 4 rounds

RezwoK

3mm wrote: »

fury to win by TKO in the first 4 rounds

Not sure what round but Fury by KO makes sense.

Chisora is a lousy fighter and the talk about a 'new' & 'inproved' fighter is hype based on what I've seen in his last few snoozefests.

Lucy and Harry

I follow Fury on twitter and he is losing the belly and training hard. He can jab all night and grab on the inside.Chisora will get worn down.Unless he gets a lucky shot that knocks out Fury I would expect Fury to win.Both were fat the last time they fought.Both will be fitter this time.But remember Fury is young and getting better other people like the Ukraine brothers are getting old.Somebody has to take over at the top.Wilder is unproven and beating tomato cans.Haye is getting old an retired again and who knows if his shoulder will be able for the training.Young Joshua has not been hit by a real heavyweight who can punch yet.Price had no heart and is also on the other side of 30 yrs. Heavy weight boxing is not good at the moment I would rather watch the welterweights. Maybe Fury could win the big title if Wladimer retires or gets too old.There are not too many good heavy weights in the world.

He is one funny man on twitter this Fury chap.Some of the stuff is mental.

walshb

I like Fury, and do believe him to be quite good, but he's far from really tested himself. I would back Wilder against him. This issue of being tested is important, no doubt, but just because a BIG HW has not met quality opposition does not mean that he can't win via points or KO when he does meet them.

Fury-Joshua? Both men have a good chance. I reckon the one who lands the first clean power shot could end it. Joshua has just as much chance to do this as Fury. Joshua's chin is untested. We don't know how he will react when tagged clean. Fury's chin isn't grade A. He can be hurt and dropped. May make sense to be not too confident that Fury beats Joshua.

Frankie Lee

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByBF0NbAgaU

Have to admire Fury's honesty here from 4 years ago.

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

Ok, so now it's gone from giving Vitali a very tough fight to going the distance with him? He went the distance with a man who is past his best, yet still enough in him to win very comfortably. He dominated Chisora. You seem to think that Chisora gave him a tough fight, "he gave Vitali such a tough fight." He did not.

No matter what way I look at Chisora to me he's not all that impressive.

Ok, here we go again.

A quick Google search brings up the following

http://www.badlefthook.com/2012/2/18/2808827/klitschko-vs-chisora-results-unanimous-decision-scores-undercard-boxing-recap-news

The actual headline reads -
“Vitali Klitchko Wins Hard-Earned Decision in Munich”

In the article phrases like “hard-fought battle” and “Klitchko's toughest test in years” and “Chisora's stock once again may have risen, even in defeat” are used.

Like a previous poster they scored it 116-112 to Klitchko.


http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/7593955/vitali-klitschko-beats-dereck-chisora-one-hand

While Klitchko's arm injury is highlighted, the article also mentions such phrases as “Klitschko won a rough, physical fight against England's hard-charging, but much smaller, Chisora”, “Klitschko landed 211 of 605 blows (35 percent) Chisora 163 of 359 blows (45 percent)”, “He also dished out some punishment to Klitschko, who has taken so little over the years”, “Chisora's constant pressure”, “this was probably the toughest (and most crowd-pleasing) fight he has had since he won a vacant heavyweight title to begin his second reign”.



Looks like I'm not the only person who thought Chisora gave a good account of himself in that fight. It's just that his disgraceful behaviour before and after got all the headlines and people understandably forgot the fight itself. You said yourself you'd have to go back and look at it again. Instead you looked at the scores on Boxrec and decided it was a cakewalk, despite your regular assertion on here that (correctly) a fight can be lopsided on the scorecards but still be hard-fought.

Interestingly, the scores are virtually identical to that actual cakewalk Roy Jones v James Toney, you know, the fight where you always claim Jones “never dominated, he was just one step ahead”. Yet not one report of that fight would describe Toney's effort in the same language as I highlighted above, but you have no problem denigrating Chisora's effort. Double standards.

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

Looks like I'm not the only person who thought Chisora gave a good account of himself in that fight. It's just that his disgraceful behaviour before and after got all the headlines and people understandably forgot the fight itself. You said yourself you'd have to go back and look at it again. Instead you looked at the scores on Boxrec and decided it was a cakewalk, despite your regular assertion on here that (correctly) a fight can be lopsided on the scorecards but still be hard-fought.
.

Yes, a fight can be 120-108 and be a very close fight. This fight was not that. Klit won clearly. It was not at all close. Me saying I must go back and view it again was being polite and diplomatic. Klit dominated Chisora. I am quite sure I posted on that fight here on boards on the night it happened.

walshb

pac_man wrote: »

I remember watching that Vitali and Chisora fight thinking that Vitali had aged quite a bit rather than Chisora giving him trouble. In saying that,Chisora has improved a good bit since then.

Who has he fought since then? Haye knocked him out, and he had a few more nobody fights. He has still been plodding along. Vitali just showed it up that bit more because Vitali is streets ahead of the likes of Malik Scott and Kevin Johnson.

walshb

pac_man wrote: »

I don't get what you mean by plodder? My basis for the improvement was in terms of his conditioning and opponents. Before he fought Vitali, he was fighting people that were in around British title level. Take Haye out of the equation(Aside: Haye is argubly the best "heavyweight" outside of the klits) I would like to think that these "nobody" fights were beyond British title level.

Let's wait and see in July. If I see improvement I will be first to say it. I am not afraid of changing my mind or admitting that I got it wrong. Right now, and recently, he just doesn't/hasn't impressed me much. Slow, ponderous and plodding is what I see. Good trier and takes a decent shot. Can hit a bit. That's the good side!

Andrew Flexing

pac_man wrote: »

I'm not disagreeing with you and I'm not claiming that he's a world beater. I just think he's in better shape to when he was a fat mess against Tyson and he seems a bit more mentally switched on.

I agree....he was just a Plodder back then but now Chisora is a Plodder 2.0 (slightly improved version), though I think in the grand scheme of things its a fairly irrelevant bout as far as the division goes-as a stand alone fight it will be interesting to watch.

walshb

pac_man wrote: »

I'm not disagreeing with you and I'm not claiming that he's a world beater. I just think he's in better shape to when he was a fat mess against Tyson and he seems a bit more mentally switched on.

Maybe I am a bit harsh on him. When I first saw him he did impress me with his compact style and pressure and shot variation. But over the past few years he seems very pedestrian and slow and cumbersome. It's plodding along style. Fury should beat this guy up if Fury is committed and focused.

Lucy and Harry

http://t.co/HDPSRBvLGJ he means business lol

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

Yes, a fight can be 120-108 and be a very close fight. This fight was not that. Klit won clearly. It was not at all close. Me saying I must go back and view it again was being polite and diplomatic. Klit dominated Chisora. I am quite sure I posted on that fight here on boards on the night it happened.

At no stage did I state it was close.

I said it was a tough fight and hard-fought. Which it was.

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

At no stage did I state it was close.

I said it was a tough fight and hard-fought. Which it was.

It was a sparring session for Vitali. I wouldn't say he found it all that tough. Chisora did keep coming, but apart from that he had nothing to offer. Our definitions of tough must differ. He was more an annoyance than anything else.

Littlehorny

Lads, Vitali badly tore ligaments in his left shoulder early in the Chisora fight, the same injury that made him quit in his defeat to Chris Byrd. He was in agony, but said no way was he gonna quit and lose to Chisora because he was such a tramp in the build up to the fight. The only reason the fight was a bit tough on Klitchko was because he beat Chisora with one arm.
In my opinion both Fury and Chisora are no good anyway, the boxing world is crying out for a few good heavyweights to come on the scene.

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

It was a sparring session for Vitali. I wouldn't say he found it all that tough. Chisora did keep coming, but apart from that he had nothing to offer. Our definitions of tough must differ. He was more an annoyance than anything else.

Once again, when you don't like a fighter you just point blank refuse to give him any credit for anything... whereas when you like him you'll forgive him anything eg. Toney being 'ahem' "one step behind" Jones. Chisora gave Vitali a harder fight than Toney gave Jones. Even you can't deny that. But you'll try to wangle your way around it.

I don't like Chisora, I don't think many do. I don't think Chisora is some sort of latent talent, but he gave Vitali a damn good fight. If he didn't why did the reports I quoted above state what they did. Sparring session my arse!!

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

Once again, when you don't like a fighter you just point blank refuse to give him any credit for anything... whereas when you like him you'll forgive him anything eg. Toney being 'ahem' "one step behind" Jones. Chisora gave Vitali a harder fight than Toney gave Jones. Even you can't deny that. But you'll try to wangle your way around it.

I don't like Chisora, I don't think many do. I don't think Chisora is some sort of latent talent, but he gave Vitali a damn good fight. If he didn't why did the reports I quoted above state what they did. Sparring session my arse!!

Chisora used his face as a defense in that fight. Toney did not take near as much leather as Chisora took. Toney was one step behind. Go watch the fight. It was dull. Very little cleanly landed throughout. Jones was just that bit too cute and quick. Deserved winner.

Nothing to do with liking Chisora. Get over it. He was beaten convincingly in a one sided fight. If you think it was a tough and hard fought, fine. I saw a steady one sided beat down.

megadodge

Key the words 'Ring magazine the most dominant performance in a big fight in 20 years' into Google and see what fight Ring is talking about.













Hint: It's not Vitali v Chisora.