Water meter installed: high usage?

bothyhead

Our water meter was installed sometime in the past 7 to 10 days. I had a look at the reading today and it's showing 6.0 cubic meters. There are two people living in the house, which works out in the region of 300 - 400 litres per person per day. Does this seem very high?

ted1

Its higher than would be expected, 150l per day would be expected

http://www.southtippcoco.ie/water/usage.htm

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/150-litres-of-water-consumed-daily-by-every-person-245927.html


don't use your water for a few hours. That no taps, no flushing toilets, no washing machine, no dish washer, no shower, no bath etc

Take a reading at the start and then at the end. if it counts up then you have a leak. if it doesn't, then there's no big leak.

if it hasn't counted up fill a 5 liter bottle twice, confirm that the meter has only gone up by 10 liters. (if you use a smaller amount, you mightn't notice slight inaccuracies.

EDIT: just saw that it reads 6,000l are you sure that it started at zero? it might not have started at zero.

bothyhead

ted1 wrote: »

EDIT: just saw that it reads 6,000l are you sure that it started at zero? it might not have started at zero.

No, I'm not sure about that. The first time I realised it was installed, it was reading 6m^3. I measured it three days later and it was 7m^3, which works out at about 160 l / person / day - in line with the average.

Good idea about filling up a known volume and comparing the meter reading before and after.

Thanks

Birdie Num Num

ted1 wrote: »

Take a reading at the start and then at the end. if it counts up then you have a leak. if it doesn't, then there's no big leak.

Has anyone else noticed that more than just a few of the new installations are leaking? Most are just a trickle but some seem quite bad.

bothyhead

In investigating my own usage, I looked at 5 other neighbours. One had quite a bit of water in the bottom of the housing, c. 6 - 7 inches. Another had no meter installed at all!

djpbarry

Moved from S&EI.

xlogo

How are waters going to be read ?

bothyhead

xlogo wrote: »

How are waters going to be read ?

Each meter contains a transmitter. The reading will be taken by an Irish Water official swiping some sort of scanner over it. This can be done without having to open the lid. I'm not sure how often it will be read. If it's like the ESB, only a couple of times a year.

bothyhead

xlogo wrote: »

How are waters going to be read ?

Each meter contains a transmitter. The reading will be taken by an Irish Water official swiping some sort of scanner over it. This can be done without having to open the lid. I'm not sure how often it will be read. If it's like the ESB, only a couple of times a year.

richieburke01

The older meters where read by a meter reader with a magic stick that held the info on the stick
The new ones I think can be read from a laptop close by

rcdk1

Actually it will be read by a van driving by once a quarter.

xlogo

bothyhead wrote: »

Each meter contains a transmitter. The reading will be taken by an Irish Water official swiping some sort of scanner over it. This can be done without having to open the lid. I'm not sure how often it will be read. If it's like the ESB, only a couple of times a year.

Ok - but how is the transmitter powered ?

SamV

As mentioned above the meter will be read every 3 months by a drive-by. The wand type meters have been used in the past by Local Authorities for non-domestic connections.

xlogo wrote: »

Ok - but how is the transmitter powered ?

The transmitter battery powered. To save power, it stays in standby mode until activated by the drive-by, at which point it transmits the reading.

ted1

bothyhead wrote: »

Each meter contains a transmitter. The reading will be taken by an Irish Water official swiping some sort of scanner over it. This can be done without having to open the lid. I'm not sure how often it will be read. If it's like the ESB, only a couple of times a year.

They'll drive pass them the range of transmission is claimed to be good.

( good= I can't remember exactly off hand but something like 100m)


They claim this is AMR but it's far from it. They also didn't bother tying in with ESB and board gas with their smart meters as the roll out if these are not in the sane time frame as water meters

SamV

ted1 wrote: »

They'll drive pass them the range of transmission is claimed to be good.

( good= I can't remember exactly off hand but something like 100m)


They claim this is AMR but it's far from it. They also didn't bother tying in with ESB and board gas with their smart meters as the roll out if these are not in the sane time frame as water meters

If you mean that it's far from an "Automatic Meter Read" because it needs a drive-by, then I think the problem lies in your definition of AMR.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_meter_reading
(Sorry, can't post urls until I hit 50 posts)
From the link above, what's being installed at the moment is "mobile" type AMR i.e. drive-by. In time this can be developed into a "fixed network".

ted1

SamV wrote: »

If you mean that it's far from an "Automatic Meter Read" because it needs a drive-by, then I think the problem lies in your definition of AMR.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_meter_reading
(Sorry, can't post urls until I hit 50 posts)
From the link above, what's being installed at the moment is "mobile" type AMR i.e. drive-by. In time this can be developed into a "fixed network".

Modern AMR means it's an an automatic meter reading which uploads to a central server or database. Having to go out to the meter is not Automatic. Its a manual process involved on getting the reading.

We specialise in metering and would be laughed out of meetings if we suggested an AMR that involved us going to site to read/ collect data from meters.

P.S you should never cite Wikipedia it's never accepted as a realiable source.


In time the meters should....... Doesn't cut the mustard. They should have being designed to work with the home network created by smart meters and offer 1/4 hour data do as to identify leaks and usage.

ted1

SamV wrote: »

The transmitter battery powered. To save power, it stays in standby mode until activated by the drive-by, at which point it transmits the reading.

Partial correct, there's two types if meter being used one that sleeps and one that constantly transmits.

Two types of meter and transmitter are being installed by Irish Water. The Itron radio unit only sends a message when requested, typically once every 3 months. The Diehl radio unit transmits a data message of duration 6.26 milliseconds every 8.623 seconds

SamV

[sarcasm] Oh, I do apologise, I didn't realise we were talking about modern AMR[/sarcasm]
No, wikipedia is not peer reviewed, but then again neither is your opinion. The fact remains that you've misinterpreted the meaning of the word Automatic in AMR. AMR is an 'old' technology and automatic simply means the data is transferred automatically, be it to a handheld, vehicle or network.

How much would it cost to set every home in the country on a network to provide real time data collection? The economic (and political) reality is that a basic system is needed that can be set up quickly but has the potential to be upgraded.

The average consumer has little or no interest or need to remotely access meter data, any potential benefit is to the company. But as it stands a simple process of comparing bulk meter readings entering a given area versus readings at the consumers' meters will throw up so many potential leaks that there won't be enough hours in the day, or more importantly money in the kitty, to fix them. Remote real time data collection is an expensive non-necessity.

ted1

SamV wrote: »

[sarcasm] Oh, I do apologise, I didn't realise we were talking about modern AMR[/sarcasm]
No, wikipedia is not peer reviewed, but then again neither is your opinion. The fact remains that you've misinterpreted the meaning of the word Automatic in AMR. AMR is an 'old' technology and automatic simply means the data is transferred automatically, be it to a handheld, vehicle or network.

How much would it cost to set every home in the country on a network to provide real time data collection? The economic (and political) reality is that a basic system is needed that can be set up quickly but has the potential to be upgraded.

For day-1 1/4 hour data we can do it for 8 euro per year+ 150 once off for our meter using text messages (there paying for a meter already so it wouldn't be extra) For bulk of 1M+ we could do it for much much cheaper


The average consumer has little or no interest or need to remotely access meter data, any potential benefit is to the company. But as it stands a simple process of comparing bulk meter readings entering a given area versus readings at the consumers' meters will throw up so many potential leaks that there won't be enough hours in the day, or more importantly money in the kitty, to fix them. Remote real time data collection is an expensive non-necessity.

How much would it cost?
It varies trilliant put the cost at about 9 dollars per meter where there's 150 meters per traffo and 90 dollars where there is ten meters per traffo it that includes gas and electrical to add water won't really cost more. That's for a plc network a mesh network is fixed price per meter. Gas and electricity will soon have data posting back over the network and it would be very easy to piggy back water in this.


As for old technology it's the way Irish water do it that's old. AMR means that that no one should need to go to site to read a meter. Sending some one out to get a meter reading by default means it's not automated.

Without proper data such as quarterly hour how can a consumer identify leaks or how much water a shower / dish washer/ washing machine etc uses?

They can't therefore Irish water have demonstrated that they have no interest in the end user using less water and they are giving the end user the same amount of information as ESB and board gas did at the foundation if the state which we all know that in today's term its pointless.

Sending someone out to collect data is not an automated process its a manual process. Dress it up all you want but it's not much different than going around with a clip board recording values. The meters can't even give a pulse output.


Remember you cant manage what you can't measure and a totalised bill does not count as measured as it gives the end user no information what so ever bout their actual usage.

Bear in mind that the end user is responsible for usage beyond the meters I they need to know if there are leaks. A monthly or quarterly bill won't show this up as it's only a totalised value. Having data broken Down in segments will show them if there is an actual leak

shane 007

Calor Gas have been using similar technology for years. They have meters built into their domestic & non-domestic bulk storage tanks but instead of transmitting a meter reading, they transmit a liquid gas level within the tank.
The software reacts differently depending on the level. It only transmits when a certain level is reached, then it transmits once per week until another lower level is reached when it transmits twice per week, until it transmits daily.
This information is transmitted from the tank location anywhere in the country to their head office in Dublin where they can dispatch a refill lorry.
Batteries last minimum 5 years & are replaced on their 5 year safety inspection.

My point being, the required technology has been in the market place for years & that type of transmission water meter is also available so why do Irish Water need to "drive by". That will be fun in a lot of certain estates around the country!

Wearb

Irish Water will be in the market for a few trotter ponies and buggies. Just to blend in.

xlogo

SamV wrote: »

As mentioned above the meter will be read every 3 months by a drive-by. The wand type meters have been used in the past by Local Authorities for non-domestic connections.

The transmitter battery powered. To save power, it stays in standby mode until activated by the drive-by, at which point it transmits the reading.

Cheers - so eventually all the batteries will have to be replaced ? How long will they last ?

shane 007

xlogo wrote: »

Cheers - so eventually all the batteries will have to be replaced ? How long will they last ?

Depending upon the estate they are fitted in, I would think many batteries will outlive the meters!

The thing I have to laugh about is the meters can easily be unscrewed from their base & if you blow in the reverse direction, the reading counts back! I don't think the powers that be, including our ginger leader & cronies, have thought of that yet....
A little Lidl air compressor & a couple of hours later, they will owe the homeowner monies!

ted1

shane 007 wrote: »

Depending upon the estate they are fitted in, I would think many batteries will outlive the meters!

The thing I have to laugh about is the meters can easily be unscrewed from their base & if you blow in the reverse direction, the reading counts back! I don't think the powers that be, including our ginger leader & cronies, have thought of that yet....
A little Lidl air compressor & a couple of hours later, they will owe the homeowner monies!

Is the transmitted value stored separately from the displayed value?

shane 007

ted1 wrote: »

Is the transmitted value stored separately from the displayed value?

I think they only transit the current reading & do not store usage information but am open to correction.

ted1

shane 007 wrote: »

I think they only transit the current reading & do not store usage information but am open to correction.

I've seen meters in the past where the display is different than the register used for electronic readings.

Outsidethebox

Hi folks,

Just bought a house that is built but not connected to water or electrics so contacted my local authority about getting water connected. Got a form asking me the following and am wondering could any of you guys help me,

"Estimated maximum water demand in peak periods (litres per second)"

How in the name of jaysus am I supposed to know that?

It'll be the wife, myself and the two childer 4yrs and 1yr. Four of us all together.

Any responses greatly appreciated.
OTB