Mazda's new engine plans

Tea 1000

Some folk on here were a bit more than critical about Mazda's new SkyActiv technology when it was spoken about 2 years ago, but looks like it has proved it's point with their current cars, and they actually do work well in the real world in terms of achieving decent economy.
Here's phase 2 that they're starting to work on:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/next-generation-mazdas-feature-radical-new-engine-tech

They're considering the total CO2 impact rather than just what comes out the exhaust pipe. Looks interesting, and a possible future of motoring without dependency on heavy batteries.

MetzgerMeister

Great news, fair play to them. Now all they need to do is introduce this technology to the rotary engine

toyotaavensis

I must say I am glad to see the way they are going. If the work they are doing is as good as they predict they could become a serious player in markets rather than only having a small share.

lomb

But their new 6 isn't that efficient in the real world anyway. Hopefully there will be some proper average 50 mpg 200+bhp performance petrol engines in the future though.

Leonard Hofstadter

Certainly the What Car? true mpg tests show that in the real world these engines can deliver the goods on the mpg count. But this is not surprising, as puny little engines never work in the real world with an average driver. Also, naturally aspirated petrol engines sound nicer, have sharper throttle response and of course, can be revved, which is always fun! Now all we need is for Mazda to extend this to something with more than four cylinders, I long for the days when cars could have a naturally aspirated silky smooth six cylinder petrol lump under the bonnet.

Tea 1000

lomb wrote: »

But their new 6 isn't that efficient in the real world anyway. Hopefully there will be some proper average 50 mpg 200+bhp performance petrol engines in the future though.

Yes it is. The petrol engines are getting closer to their claimed figure in real world driving than most other marques.

Tea 1000

toyotaavensis wrote: »

I must say I am glad to see the way they are going. If the work they are doing is as good as they predict they could become a serious player in markets rather than only having a small share.

And what with VW buying up everyone and other folk sharing everything, the more different players the better really.

HandsomeDan

Don't really get their point. Hybrid can complement any engine. Why does having efficient engines preclude you from doing hybrid? My guess, they don;t have the resources to do both fancy engines and hybid.

And before anyone goes to respond. **** off, I'm always right :pac:

toyotaavensis

One of the reasons they plan to do it this way is they think that they can make a petrol engine so efficient that the co2 emissions generated in building the hybrid system would not be saved during the life of the car.

HandsomeDan

toyotaavensis wrote: »

One of the reasons they plan to do it this way is they think that they can make a petrol engine so efficient that the co2 emissions generated in building the hybrid system would not be saved during the life of the car.

Point taken.

But how do they know that hybrids of the future (since this is future tense they're speaking in), given current development in e-motor and battery tech, won't simplify to the point of being viable when combined with ultra efficient motors?

Fúck 'em.

cabb8ge

captainspeed wrote: »

--I long for the days when cars could have a naturally aspirated silky smooth six cylinder petrol lump under the bonnet.

do you drive one currently?

toyotaavensis

We dont know but given the high carbon footprint of the prius it is not a surprise.

Just so you know a prius starts off in north america/ canada where they mine for ore.
This is sent on an oil burning ship to norway where it is turned into batterys.
These batteries are sent on an oil burning ship to japan where they are put into a car.
These cars are then shipped around the world to people who think they are saving the planet.

It will take serious work to improve hybrds co2 cost to sustainable levels long term. However if the technology changes I am sure mazda will get on board.

HandsomeDan

toyotaavensis wrote: »

We dont know but given the high carbon footprint of the prius it is not a surprise.

Just so you know a prius starts off in north america/ canada where they mine for ore.
This is sent on an oil burning ship to norway where it is turned into batterys.
These batteries are sent on an oil burning ship to japan where they are put into a car.
These cars are then shipped around the world to people who think they are saving the planet.

It will take serious work to improve hybrds co2 cost to sustainable levels long term. However if the technology changes I am sure mazda will get on board.

Yes, we've all seen the 10YO top gear episode. Things move on.

Micro hybrid tech, for instance - brings many of the benefits of hybrid, at a fraction of the weight. he last Honda hybrid had a battery the size of a briefcase.

Tea 1000

HandsomeDan wrote: »

Point taken.

But how do they know that hybrids of the future (since this is future tense they're speaking in), given current development in e-motor and battery tech, won't simplify to the point of being viable when combined with ultra efficient motors?

Fúck 'em.

Why spend tens of millions trying to reinvent the wheel that Toyota have been inventing since the 90s though? Especially since Mazda is a small company.
Also, you do get better driving experiences from light N/A engines with no batteries to lug around, so if there's room to improve the traditional petrol engine in a new way, then do it. Then as the big companies improve hybrid tech, you'll have hopefully patented a new way of making the engine 15% more efficient and you can just buy in the latest hybrid system to bolt on.
In any case, it's a good move.

HandsomeDan

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Why spend tens of millions trying to reinvent the wheel that Toyota have been inventing since the 90s though? Especially since Mazda is a small company.

Still plenty of scope for competition in hybrid development - you just need the resources, which as you say only the big boys have. Not disagreeing with you here

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Also, you do get better driving experiences from light N/A engines with no batteries to lug around,

Porche 918, le Ferrari, P1 ... 'torque fill' next gen super cars... no?

I reckon you'll see micro hybid based sporty mainstream models appear over the next few years with this 'torque fill' stuff.

Tea 1000 wrote: »

... as the big companies improve hybrid tech, you'll have hopefully patented a new way of making the engine 15% more efficient and you can just buy in the latest hybrid system to bolt on.
In any case, it's a good move.

Mazda have shunned hybrid tech according to the article.

My original point was that this is slightly disingenuous given hybrid tech is improving all the time and would likely complement a next gen mazda motor by the time it's released.

Chimaera

The OP's link appears to have disappeared. According to this article they're considering light hybrid solutions to bolster the petrol engine's performance, using regenerative braking to recharge the batteries instead of drawing engine power.

It'll be interesting to see how HCCI performs in the real world.

HandsomeDan

"The hybrid system, likely based on Mazda’s current i-Eloop system which uses capacitors to store electricity and to power vehicle ancillaries, would only be used on low loads and low speeds when the car is at its least efficient, and should result in a model with well-to-wheel CO2 emissions of less than 50g/km with no heavy hybrid battery pack or systems."

micro hybrid iow

Tea 1000

HandsomeDan wrote: »

Still plenty of scope for competition in hybrid development - you just need the resources, which as you say only the big boys have. Not disagreeing with you here



Porche 918, le Ferrari, P1 ... 'torque fill' next gen super cars... no?

I reckon you'll see micro hybid based sporty mainstream models appear over the next few years with this 'torque fill' stuff.



Mazda have shunned hybrid tech according to the article.

My original point was that this is slightly disingenuous given hybrid tech is improving all the time and would likely complement a next gen mazda motor by the time it's released.

I was waiting for the McLaren and 918 references alright! They actually re-enforce my point, look at the money that went into developing them.
Mazda are right to do what they are doing, let the rest pour money into perfecting the technology until it's at a point where you can use it to compliment your existing super-efficient engine and get an advantage over and above the competition.
The iEloop system seems to be a handy stop-gap anyway.