Goverment pay almost €54million to get €32million in Savings!

sillyoulfool

Only in Ireland!

Bord Gais employees are to receive a tax free payout of almost €54,000,000 euro for achieving savings of €32 million between 2005 and 2009.
http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2014/0320/603475-bord-gais/

The employee share ownership plan (ESOP) was established as part of a productivity deal agreed with unions, which sources said had delivered savings between 2005 and 2009 of €32m.
Through the ESOP, the staff in question own 3.27% of Bord Gáis, which is now valued at €53.6m.

Effectively these savings have cost the taxpayer €22,000,000

jiminho

Where'd you get 12m from?

Garrigai

22m no?

Ben D Bus

sillyoulfool wrote: »

Only in Ireland!

Bord Gais employees are to receive a tax free payout of almost €54,000,000 euro for achieving savings of €32 million between 2005 and 2009.
http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2014/0320/603475-bord-gais/

The employee share ownership plan (ESOP) was established as part of a productivity deal agreed with unions, which sources said had delivered savings between 2005 and 2009 of €32m.
Through the ESOP, the staff in question own 3.27% of Bord Gáis, which is now valued at €53.6m.

Effectively these savings have cost the taxpayer €12,000,000

But are they ongoing savings? So another €32 million from 2010 to 2014? i.e. €64 million by the end of this year so saving the taxpayer €10 million?

steddyeddy

So surely these savings will be passed onto the taxpayer?

SEPT 23 1989

just throw a few % increase on peoples gas bills every year

everybody's happy:mad:

sillyoulfool

Ben D Bus wrote: »

But are they ongoing savings? So another €32 million from 2010 to 2014? i.e. €64 million by the end of this year so saving the taxpayer €10 million?

No, they are not ongoing savings.
It just more TAX Free gravy for the semi states.

sillyoulfool

steddyeddy wrote: »

So surely these savings will be passed onto the taxpayer?

What savings?
We paid them €53 million (tax free) in order for them to save €32 million, that's a loss of €22
But you are correct, it is of course passed on to the taxpayer.

Ben D Bus

sillyoulfool wrote: »

No, they are not ongoing savings.
It just more TAX Free gravy for the semi states.

It's from a productivity deal so yes they are ongoing savings. Or can you show me where it was a just once off saving?

darkpagandeath

I don't understand the thinking... Who came up with the figures/ratio to pay for the savings. Surely any sane person would not pay out even close to what they made in savings let alone more. If I ran a private company like this I would be out of business fairly quick.

sillyoulfool

Ben D Bus wrote: »

It's from a productivity deal so yes they are ongoing savings. Or can you show me where it was a just once off saving?

Can you show where it wasn't, BG and the Government have set the value of the savings at €32 million, they are not claiming that any more than that has been or will be achieved.

steddyeddy

Jobs for the boys to be honest. I think very little is down in the public interest in this country.

Khannie

darkpagandeath wrote: »

If I ran a private company like this I would be out of business fairly quick.

That's the flaw in your logic right there. Thinking logically.

Riskymove

sillyoulfool wrote: »

What savings?
We paid them €53 million (tax free) in order for them to save €32 million, that's a loss of €22
But you are correct, it is of course passed on to the taxpayer.

Bord Gais staff are paid through income/profits of the company...they are not public servants paid from taxes

in return for producing operational savings to the comnpany they were offered an increase in sharing the profits

ScumLord

sillyoulfool wrote: »

Through the ESOP, the staff in question own 3.27% of Bord Gáis, which is now valued at €53.6m.

It sounds like the company is buying back the employees shares rather than just giving them money.

hmmm

Even at the worst of the financial crisis we elected politicians who preferred to cut health and education spending instead of reining in public sector excesses. So why the surprise? Keep on paying those taxes, this sort of largesse isn't free you know.

Riskymove

hmmm wrote: »

So why the surprise? Keep on paying those taxes, this sort of largesse isn't free you know.

no tax involved

steddyeddy

Riskymove wrote: »

Bord Gais staff are paid through income/profits of the company...they are not public servants paid from taxes

in return for producing operational savings to the comnpany they were offered an increase in sharing the profits

How do we know?

sillyoulfool

Riskymove wrote: »

Bord Gais staff are paid through income/profits of the company...they are not public servants paid from taxes

in return for producing operational savings to the comnpany they were offered an increase in sharing the profits

They didn't produce any real savings, the savings came to €32 million for which the received of €53 million of taxpayers money.
That's right BG is owned by the Taxpayer, any money they got is taxpayers money, and they are getting it tax free.
Semi-State Gravy Train strikes again!

Riskymove

sillyoulfool wrote: »

They didn't produce any real savings, the savings came to €32 million for which the received of €53 million of taxpayers money.
That's right BG is owned by the Taxpayer, any money they got is taxpayers money, and they are getting it tax free.
Semi-State Gravy Train strikes again!

no they were given shares in the company in return for agreeing to certain changes which lead to a saving and now these shares are worth a certain amount when Bord Gais is sold to another company

many companies offer staff shares or other incentives

hmmm

Riskymove wrote: »

no they were given shares in the company in return for agreeing to certain changes which lead to a saving and now these shares are worth a certain amount when Bord Gais is sold to another company

many companies offer staff shares or other incentives

In the private sector, if you agree to changes your reward is you get to keep your job. This isn't the 19th century, every workplace has to change to survive.

asteroids over berlin

They have to buy the esop shares back in order to sell the Bge part of, employees own approx 3.2% of Bge - this is their cut of the sale. Deal with it!!

asteroids over berlin

hmmm wrote: »

In the private sector, if you agree to changes your reward is you get to keep your job. This isn't the 19th century, every workplace has to change to survive.

Nah not really - banks/financial institutions offer share options as well as telecoms, pharma......scoundrels the lot of em ha

deise blue

Delighted for the ESOP members , congratulations people !

Fair play to the Government , the Company & the Unions in negotiating this scheme back in the day - productivity achieved & a windfall for employees based on the share performance.

At the risk of sending the OP's blood pressure through the roof I would point out that the Union has agreed a separate ex gratia payment of € 4,000 for transferring when the company is sold.

sillyoulfool

Anatom wrote: »

I understand that tHe savings were €32m per year since 2009 - i.e. a lot more than your mathematics would suggest.

You understand wrong.
The totality of savings was €32 million.
Nice try though.

Its ok. Really it is.

This is Ireland. It will all be forgotten about in a few weeks.

sillyoulfool

deise blue wrote: »

Delighted for the ESOP members , congratulations people !

Fair play to the Government , the Company & the Unions in negotiating this scheme back in the day - productivity achieved & a windfall for employees based on the share performance.

At the risk of sending the OP's blood pressure through the roof I would point out that the Union has agreed a separate ex gratia payment of € 4,000 for transferring when the company is sold.

Typical Union response " we just robbed the taxpayer of €22 million, a job well done".
And they wonder why sane and reasonable people rightly blame them for their huge role in wrecking the economy.:rolleyes:

sillyoulfool

asteroids over berlin wrote: »

They have to buy the esop shares back in order to sell the Bge part of, employees own approx 3.2% of Bge - this is their cut of the sale. Deal with it!!

Why were employees gifted the property of the taxpayers?
They were already overpaid and underworked.

Hootanany

How does the Trough fit all the snouts into it?

Stavros Murphy

TheTorment wrote: »

Its ok. Really it is.

This is Ireland. It will all be forgotten about in a few weeks.

I think at best, that's being pessimistic. Tomorrow, maybe. By Monday, deffo well gone down the swanee with all the rest of the forgotten stuff. Some day, we will manage collectively to have the memory of goldfishes, which will be a massive leap forwards.

Femme_Fatale

Riskymove wrote: »

Bord Gais staff are paid through income/profits of the company...they are not public servants paid from taxes

in return for producing operational savings to the comnpany they were offered an increase in sharing the profits

Riskymove wrote: »

no tax involved

Riskymove wrote: »

no they were given shares in the company in return for agreeing to certain changes which lead to a saving and now these shares are worth a certain amount when Bord Gais is sold to another company

many companies offer staff shares or other incentives

This is no place for non outrageous truths - can't you see people have a rabble to rouse? Away with you!

enricoh

i'm sure the energy regulator will be on hand to rubberstamp any price increases required to keep the gravy train going.
read about irish water and the billions about to be wasted empolying double the people needed to do the job.
more money out of peoples pockets = less disposable income = more cafes, shops closing. ah well, any chance of getting angela back to finish the job?!

Rothmans

The value of their shares rose since the depth of the economic depression in 2009 and you didn't get a slice of the pie.

Boo- fuking - hoo

deise blue

sillyoulfool wrote: »

Typical Union response " we just robbed the taxpayer of €22 million, a job well done".
And they wonder why sane and reasonable people rightly blame them for their huge role in wrecking the economy.:rolleyes:

You do realise that it was the Company itself who initiated this ESOP scheme in negotiation with the government & the Unions , you would imagine from your diatribe that the Unions were the only party involved.

It's great to see the amount finally crystallised , again it's great to see an employee sharing scheme paying such dividends .

Naux

Riskymove wrote: »

no tax involved

You think???

prices are about to go up 1.5%.............no tax just price increases on the end user.