The law on towing?

YbFocus

Right so I'll be taking command of a car in a while that can't be driven on the road and must be trailered to events.

I've been asking around and I'm getting anything from I need a 4wd (doubt that's true) to the fact I need a licence for towing a trailer (which I now know is true).

Can one of you guys give me the cold hard facts on this and has anyone done the test?

I'm going to have to buy a Jeep or van!

CiniO

YbFocus wrote: »

Right so I'll be taking command of a car in a while that can't be driven on the road and must be trailered to events.

I've been asking around and I'm getting anything from I need a 4wd (doubt that's true) to the fact I need a licence for towing a trailer (which I now know is true).

Can one of you guys give me the cold hard facts on this and has anyone done the test?

I'm going to have to buy a Jeep or van!

What's the weight of car which will need to be trailered.
What's the DGVW (design gross vehicle weight) of a trailer you will be using to tow it?

Without knowing those it's hard to give you any answers.

YbFocus

CiniO wrote: »

What's the weight of car which will need to be trailered.
What's the DGVW (design gross vehicle weight) of a trailer you will be using to tow it?

Without knowing those it's hard to give you any answers.

Ah right

I'm getting a braked trailer with the car to suit, car I reckon would weigh in about 1100-1200kg.

YbFocus

OSI wrote: »

Seems you will need a BE license to tow anything over 750Kg (trailer and whatevers on it), doesn't seem to be too many other requirements than the vehicle being plated to tow the load.

http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Licensed-Drivers/Driving-licence/Cars-and-Trailers/

Thanks osi,

So it's basically find the weight of the car and trailer combined and then get something rated to tow that load?

And get my licence because it's over 750kg

Drummerboy08

Something is telling me you DO need a 4WD to tow a car, but I have no idea if that's in law or not.

I do know that getting the trailer licence is a pain, and it's easier (certainly for me anyway) and cheaper to buy a small 3.5t transporter based on a Transit or similar.

YbFocus

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Something is telling me you DO need a 4WD to tow a car, but I have no idea if that's in law or not.

I do know that getting the trailer licence is a pain, and it's easier (certainly for me anyway) and cheaper to buy a small 3.5t transporter based on a Transit or similar.

Ah crap well it makes no sense if you do.

I'm looking at getting a transit alright, space for all the other bits needed too!

This 4wd Lark, if true, is a silly ruling as it will do little or nothing on the road!

Edit: Brain lapse there That's a great idea Drummerboy, I may look into that

CiniO

YbFocus wrote: »

Ah right

I'm getting a braked trailer with the car to suit, car I reckon would weigh in about 1100-1200kg.

So in general, to carry a 1100-1200kg car, you would need a trailer with DGVW of about 2000kg. (Trailer weight of around 500-600kg + 1400kg carrying capacity).

With that kind of a trailer you would definitely need BE licence.

In relation to towing vehicle - possibly some bigger estate would do. Most van's will. Definitely no need for 4x4.

CJhaughey

It has nothing to do with 4wd or not, it comes down to weight.
Most 4wd vehicles are rated to tow heavier loads than cars because they weigh more.
An example is a SJ410 which is a 4wd but is a very light one and consequently the allowable tow weight is low.
Van derived transporters are good but some can be very close or over the max weight once you factor in the load of the car/tyres/fuel and passengers.
C License would be better in that case.

CiniO

YbFocus wrote: »

Ah crap well it makes no sense if you do.

I'm looking at getting a transit alright, space for all the other bits needed too!

This 4wd Lark, if true, is a silly ruling as it will do little or nothing on the road!

Edit: Brain lapse there That's a great idea Drummerboy, I may look into that

No need for 4wd. No where is the law is specified a 4x4 as a requirement to tow any kind of trailer. It's all only about weights.

Drummerboy08

It's certainly a cheaper way to move a car. If you go the Jeep/Estate with trailer route, a good proper trailer will cost €2,000, and the same again for a decent tow vehicle. Then you've to jump through hoops to get your licence - a box trailer with solid sides and 20 (or more, can't remember) concrete blocks are required.

You'll pick up a decent transporter with DOE for that kind of money, that's the route I'm going down.

CiniO

YbFocus wrote: »

Thanks osi,

So it's basically find the weight of the car and trailer combined and then get something rated to tow that load?

Exactly.

And get my licence because it's over 750kg

On B licence you can tow any trailer of DGVW of 750kg or less, and heavier trailer, provided sum of DGVW of both trailer and towing vehicle is not greater than 3500kg.

But as I said - as most likely trailer you need should have about 2000kg DGVW, then it will be impossible to find 1500kg DGVW car rated to tow it. You will need heavier car, and therefore need BE licence.
Unless maybe I'm wrong and it's possible to find such combination.
F.e. trailer with 1800kg DGVW, which could take 1200kg load on it (that would be enough for you).
And towing car with DGVW 1700kg rated to tow 1800kg.
Unlikely though me thinks.

Chimaera

Towing regulations are rather complicated here unfortunately.

In all cases, the trailer must be within the vehicle's towing limits as specified by the manufacturer.

A trailer with a Design Gross Vehicle Weight (DGVW) under 750 kg is an easy case - anyone on a B licence can tow one. If the trailer's GVW is more than half that of the towing vehicle, it must have brakes - the weights here are actual weights, not design maxima.

If the trailer has a DGVW over 750 kg, you can still tow it on a B licence as long as the total of the two vehicles' actual weight does not exceed 3500 kg. (The trailer's DGVW can exceed the difference once the actual load keeps within the overall 3500 kg limit.)

There's no explicit requirement to tow any trailer with a van or 4x4 (there was something a few years ago but that was changed again). In reality, larger trailers are going to exceed the capabilities of most cars and require a bigger towing vehicles.

If your combined actual weight exceeds (or is likely to exceed) 3500 kg then you need to get a BE licence, end of story.

More info at: http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Your-Vehicle/About-your-Vehicle/Example-of-non-Dup/Trailers-/Technical-Trailer-Requirements-/

YbFocus

CiniO wrote: »

No need for 4wd. No where is the law is specified a 4x4 as a requirement to tow any kind of trailer. It's all only about weights.

Thanks CiniO for all your advice and clearing that up
I may see what size of a van/Jeep can tow a 2t load.

Drummerboy I'll look into getting the licence as I have access to plenty of trailers etc, if it's really not worth it I'll look at a transporter.
I think the licence would be handy in the future is what I'm thinking about also.

CiniO

Chimaera wrote: »

A trailer with a Design Gross Vehicle Weight (DGVW) under 750 kg is an easy case - anyone on a B licence can tow one. If the trailer's GVW is more than half that of the towing vehicle, it must have brakes - the weights here are actual weights, not design maxima.

Is this an actual law?
I though every vehicle was rated to weight of trailer it can tow - both braked and unbraked.

F.e. my car weights about 1400kg, but it's rated to tow only 500kg unbraked trailer.
Does that mean I should stick to car specified limit of 500kg, or follow what you said and can tow trailer weighing 700kg unbraked (half of car weight).

If the trailer has a DGVW over 750 kg, you can still tow it on a B licence as long as the total of the two vehicles' actual weight does not exceed 3500 kg. (The trailer's DGVW can exceed the difference once the actual load keeps within the overall 3500 kg limit.)

I think that's wrong.
Those limits apply to DGVW, not actual weights.
There might be a set of car and trailer.
Say car DGVW is 2000kg. Trailer DGVW is 1600kg.
So total DGVW is 3600kg, therefore BE licence is required as it's over 3500kg.
Fact that both car and trailer are empty, and f.e. car weights 1400kg only and trailer weights 500kg only (so sum of 1900kg) doesn't matter, as sum of DGVW is over 3500kg so BE licence is needed.

YbFocus

I can't thank you guys enough, I couldn't understand how it was explained anywhere else.

Come on here and within 30 mins I get it

So I'm looking at just getting in below the 3.5t limit which is unlikely but I'll do the math.

Or get the licence, van and trailer

Or drummerboys option of a transporter which is a great one but doesn't exactly suit me as it wouldn't be a fantastic daily

Chimaera

CiniO wrote: »

Is this an actual law?
I though every vehicle was rated to weight of trailer it can tow - both braked and unbraked.

F.e. my car weights about 1400kg, but it's rated to tow only 500kg unbraked trailer.
Does that mean I should stick to car specified limit of 500kg, or follow what you said and can tow trailer weighing 700kg unbraked (half of car weight).

From the RSA link above:

O1 trailers are not obliged to have brakes fitted unless they have a Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW), i.e. the weight of the trailer plus the load being carried, which is more than half the GVW of the towing vehicle to which they are attached.

If the trailer’s GVW is more than half the GVW of the towing vehicle, then the trailer must be fitted with a service brake, a parking brake and a device capable of automatically stopping the trailer if it becomes detached while in motion—i.e., a breakaway cable. As an alternative to a breakaway cable, a secondary coupling may be fitted.

So this applies regardless of the technical limits of the vehicle. But yes, you are only legally allowed tow what the vehicle is capable of towing.

CiniO wrote: »

I think that's wrong.
Those limits apply to DGVW, not actual weights.
There might be a set of car and trailer.
Say car DGVW is 2000kg. Trailer DGVW is 1600kg.
So total DGVW is 3600kg, therefore BE licence is required as it's over 3500kg.
Fact that both car and trailer are empty, and f.e. car weights 1400kg only and trailer weights 500kg only (so sum of 1900kg) doesn't matter, as sum of DGVW is over 3500kg so BE licence is needed.

That was my original reading on this in another discussion we had, which you disagreed with at the time - you'd want to make your mind up here!

The RSA statement on this:

Tow a trailer over 0.75 tonnes DGVW, with a vehicle with a DGVW not exceeding 3.5 tonnes provided the combination weight does not exceed 3.5 tonnes.

The intent here as I read it is that the B licence covers vehicles and vehicle/trailer combinations up to 3500 kg actual total weight, with a stipulation that the vehicle's DGVW is within this 3500 kg limit also. If you want to exceed the 3500 kg limit in any way you need a different licence.

Del2005

CJhaughey wrote: »

It has nothing to do with 4wd or not, it comes down to weight.
Most 4wd vehicles are rated to tow heavier loads than cars because they weigh more.
An example is a SJ410 which is a 4wd but is a very light one and consequently the allowable tow weight is low.
Van derived transporters are good but some can be very close or over the max weight once you factor in the load of the car/tyres/fuel and passengers.
C License would be better in that case.

The C licence is no good for towing, your max is 750kg. While with the B can exceed 750kg provided the combination doesn't exceed 3500kg and the trailer doesn't weight more than the tow vehicle.

CiniO

Del2005 wrote: »

The C licence is no good for towing, your max is 750kg. While with the B can exceed 750kg provided the combination doesn't exceed 3500kg and the trailer doesn't weight more than the tow vehicle.

This requirement was scrapped few years ago.
AFAIK now it's only sum of DGVW not the exceed 3500kg.

CiniO

Chimaera wrote: »

From the RSA link above:


So this applies regardless of the technical limits of the vehicle. But yes, you are only legally allowed tow what the vehicle is capable of towing.

So I assume even though RSA says I can tow unbraked trailer of half of my vehicle weight (which is 700kg), but as my vehicle is rated to 500kg ubraked trailers, that's the limit for me.

That was my original reading on this in another discussion we had, which you disagreed with at the time - you'd want to make your mind up here!

I can't recall it.
Have you got a link?

The RSA statement on this:


The intent here as I read it is that the B licence covers vehicles and vehicle/trailer combinations up to 3500 kg actual total weight, with a stipulation that the vehicle's DGVW is within this 3500 kg limit also. If you want to exceed the 3500 kg limit in any way you need a different licence.

My undestanding of this is that combination of DGVW must not exceed 3500kg.

CiniO

Now another thing.
I looked up irishstatutebook and it looks like RSA are not exactly right.

“7.(1) A combination of vehicles which consists of a drawing vehicle and a trailer shall, for the purpose of these Regulations, be regarded as a vehicle—
(a) in category B, where the drawing vehicle is in category B and—

(i) the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer does not exceed 750 kg, or

(ii) the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer exceeds 750 kg but where the design gross vehicle weight of the combination does not exceed 4,250 kg,

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2011/en/si/0483.html

According to it, combination can weight of up to 4250kg DGVW, which actually would make lots of difference in OP's case.

CJhaughey

Del2005 wrote: »

The C licence is no good for towing, your max is 750kg. While with the B can exceed 750kg provided the combination doesn't exceed 3500kg and the trailer doesn't weight more than the tow vehicle.

I should have clarified, the C license covers over 3500kg up to 7500kg which should be plenty for most car transporters.

CiniO

CJhaughey wrote: »

I should have clarified, the C license covers over 3500kg up to 7500kg which should be plenty for most car transporters.

That's C1 what you are talking about.
C covers for any goods vehicles over 3500kg (without trailers).

Stavros Murphy

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

It's certainly a cheaper way to move a car. If you go the Jeep/Estate with trailer route, a good proper trailer will cost €2,000, and the same again for a decent tow vehicle. Then you've to jump through hoops to get your licence - a box trailer with solid sides and 20 (or more, can't remember) concrete blocks are required.

You'll pick up a decent transporter with DOE for that kind of money, that's the route I'm going down.

I looked into this as t'youngest does dirt-track racing. Issue arises with the transporter route in that you are allowed 3500kg on your car licence. Well, the weight of the transporter is gonna come out of that, leaving you about 700kg of legal payload, and that's with a lightweight body on the transporter.. It's of no consequence, untill you lamp somthing and there's a claim, or a Gard pulls you on weight, which, suddenly, they are doing. PITA tbh.