Henao "Withdrawn" From Sky Roster

Diggabot

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sergio-henao-taken-off-sky-roster-due-to-test-anomalies

Inquitus

Diggabot wrote: »

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sergio-henao-taken-off-sky-roster-due-to-test-anomalies

Main question here is:

Have the UCI sent a letter about Blood Passport anomolies or have Sky done this pro-actively based on their own internal testing.

Diggabot

All speculation though at this stage. Twitter is having a melt down over it ha!

Beasty

Please leave all speculation over there as speculation as to the reasons behind this is against forum rules. Discussion of public statements by the parties involved is fine so long as it does not in itself result in such speculation

Thanks

Beasty

dastardly00

Sky says that they are looking into the physiological affects that has on the body. “We are commissioning independent scientific research to better understand the effects of prolonged periods at altitude after returning from sea level, specifically on altitude natives,” explains Brailsford.

This should be a very interesting investigation.

morana

dastardly00 wrote: »

This should be a very interesting investigation.

but i thought they go to Tenerife specifically to avail of altitude????
What do they need to find out?

Chips Lovell

Going by their statements, it appears they want to find out whether altitude natives like Henao respond in the same way to altitude training as non-natives.

buffalo

Don't dream it's over.

mirv

I'm sorry that you can't dream big. I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles.

dastardly00

morana wrote: »

but i thought they go to Tenerife specifically to avail of altitude????
What do they need to find out?

Good point. However, I think when they are in Tenerife they vary from being up the mountains (i.e. at high altitude) to being in the hotel (i.e. at sea level). Whereas Henao lives in Rionegro, which is at an altitude of somewhere around 2,125 metres above sea level. And presumably he goes to a higher altitude when climbing. So that would mean there is a difference between the two locations.

Edit: The hotel that Team Sky stay at isn't at sea level.

ragazzo

Don't worry lads. All is good. David Walsh has not reported anything suspicious so there is nothing suspicious. And if Walsh misses anything then the new UCI regime under Mr Cookson will root it out. It will be a fully transparent process with regular updates on social media and by way of press conference. If anything untoward is found then it was definitely just the little Columbian acting alone in a dark corner.
Brailsford and Cookson would never allow that sort of Spanish or Italian behaviour. What would the Public think? Such an appalling vista and history tells us what happens to appalling vistas.

All's good, Sky's the limit!

Inquitus

dastardly00 wrote: »

Good point. However, I think when they are in Tenerife they vary from being up the mountains (i.e. at high altitude) to being in the hotel (i.e. at sea level). Whereas Henao lives in Rionegro, which is at an altitude of somewhere around 2,125 metres above sea level. And presumably he goes to a higher altitude when climbing. So that would mean there is a difference between the two locations.

Sky Reside at the Hotel Parador which is 2200m up on the slopes of Mount Tiede.

http://www.parador.es/en/paradores/parador-de-las-canadas-del-teide

Diggabot

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Going by their statements, it appears they want to find out whether altitude natives like Henao respond in the same way to altitude training as non-natives.

Would they not know this already from having Uran in the team for 2 years?

niceonetom

Inquitus wrote: »

Sky Reside at the Hotel Parador which is 2200m up on the slopes of Mount Tiede.

http://www.parador.es/es/paradores/parador-de-las-canadas-del-teide

Yeah, but they weren't born there, they didn't grow up there, and, apart from Henao (and Uran when he was there) they aren't the products of many generations of selective pressure that might just favour genetic adaptations to high altitude living. It seems entirely plausible that certain people might respond differently to altitude and training than others, and that those differing responses would (I hope) be clearly visible in the bio passport.

I'm reserving judgement for now, at least until there's some actual data to interpret not just the giddy bleatings of everyone awaiting the apparently inevitable fall of Blailsford et al.

dastardly00

Inquitus wrote: »

Sky Reside at the Hotel Parador which is 2200m up on the slopes of Mount Tiede.

http://www.parador.es/en/paradores/parador-de-las-canadas-del-teide

Good research Inquitus as I had a suspicion I might have been wrong about where they stay in Tenerife.

Inquitus

niceonetom wrote: »

Yeah, but they weren't born there, they didn't grow up there, and, apart from Henao (and Uran when he was there) they aren't the products of many generations of selective pressure that might just favour genetic adaptations to high altitude living. It seems entirely plausible that certain people might respond differently to altitude and training than others, and that those differing responses would (I hope) be clearly visible in the bio passport.

I'm reserving judgement for now, at least until there's some actual data to interpret not just the giddy bleatings of everyone awaiting the apparently inevitable fall of Blailsford et al.

I agree, Jury is out on this one, lets see where it ends up. I was just pointing out where Sky stay when in Tenerife, have just finished David Walsh's Sky book and it was mentioned therein.

Also, absolutely no way they is cheatin', no sir, squeaky clean, Dave told me so

Edit: It's a good read imo whether you like Sky or not, gives a decent insight into the workings of the team.

dastardly00

Inquitus wrote: »

I agree, Jury is out on this one, lets see where it ends up. I was just pointing out where Sky stay when in Tenerife, have just finished David Walsh's Sky book and it was mentioned therein.

Also, absolutely no way they is cheatin', no sir, squeaky clean, Dave told me so

Edit: It's a good read imo whether you like Sky or not, gives a decent insight into the workings of the team.

I'm reading that book at the moment so I really should have known where their training camp is!

ZiabR

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Going by their statements, it appears they want to find out whether altitude natives like Henao respond in the same way to altitude training as non-natives.

Thats my take on it too, interesting to see where this goes.

morana

but they have had uran and henao for a couple of years now as diggabot mentioned. why didnt it show up before?

Why didnt he bio-passport show anything? According to walsh they were UCI tests not internal tests and the team reviewed the data. does the bio-passport work or is it a pr stunt?


(Ps i dont expect any answers to the questions i pose here, its just my style at the moment!)

Slo_Rida

morana wrote: »

but they have had uran and henao for a couple of years now as diggabot mentioned. why didnt it show up before?

Why didnt he bio-passport show anything? According to walsh they were UCI tests not internal tests and the team reviewed the data. does the bio-passport work or is it a pr stunt?


(Ps i dont expect any answers to the questions i pose here, its just my style at the moment!)

You're prob the only boards member that can get away with "that style"

gordongekko

Would his cousin who's also riding for sky not also show a similar result if this was normal?

Chips Lovell

morana wrote: »

but they have had uran and henao for a couple of years now as diggabot mentioned. why didnt it show up before?

Why didnt he bio-passport show anything? According to walsh they were UCI tests not internal tests and the team reviewed the data. does the bio-passport work or is it a pr stunt?

According to Sky, the tests that gave them cause for concern were new ones introduced this winter:

In our latest monthly review, our experts had questions about Sergio’s out-of-competition control tests at altitude - tests introduced this winter by the anti-doping authorities. We need to understand these readings better

They don't elaborate further, so I'm not sure what they're referring to, i.e. were more biological passport tests done in the off-season this year or is this some new testing programme?

dastardly00

Was it not Team Sky who conducted the tests themselves?

Diggabot

dastardly00 wrote: »

Was it not Team Sky who conducted the tests themselves?

David Walshe (and hed know ) said it was the UCI

Chips Lovell

dastardly00 wrote: »

Was it not Team Sky who conducted the tests themselves?

No, they were official tests, according to Sky

Zyzz

buffalo wrote: »

Don't dream it's over.

Henao, Henao..

dave_o_brien

buffalo wrote: »

Don't dream it's over.

There's a battle within.
There's a battle without.
But you'll never see the end of the road.

dastardly00

It's a bit worrying then that the UCI didn't red flag these anomalies when they got the results of the tests.

Anyone know what sort of data from the tests the UCI would have given to Sky?

Chips Lovell

AFAIK, they get full access to the test results.

happytramp

Sky are certainly having a strange start to their season. First Froome's injury resulting in his absence from T-A, Then Porte getting sick at T-A and now Henao being dropped. It doesn't seem like their going to have anything like the super smooth build up to the tour that they had last year. Suppose we'll have a better idea if Froome races Catalunya.

ZiabR

happytramp wrote: »

Sky are certainly having a strange start to their season. First Froome's injury resulting in his absence from T-A, Then Porte getting sick at T-A and now Henao being dropped. It doesn't seem like their going to have anything like the super smooth build up to the tour that they had last year. Suppose we'll have a better idea if Froome races Catalunya.

Not to mention Tiernan-Locke.

happytramp

logik wrote: »

Not to mention Tiernan-Locke.

And I suppose losing Uran as well.... and Deignan breaking his collar bone too. All their mountian domestiques are having trouble. Ironically it's Ian Stannard who's had a great start to the season not that that's much use in the grand 'sky' scheme of things.

ashleey

ragazzo wrote: »

Don't worry lads. All is good. David Walsh has not reported anything suspicious so there is nothing suspicious. And if Walsh misses anything then the new UCI regime under Mr Cookson will root it out. It will be a fully transparent process with regular updates on social media and by way of press conference. If anything untoward is found then it was definitely just the little Columbian acting alone in a dark corner.
Brailsford and Cookson would never allow that sort of Spanish or Italian behaviour. What would the Public think? Such an appalling vista and history tells us what happens to appalling vistas.

All's good, Sky's the limit!

I know what you're suggesting but surely the fact that this 'out there' suggests that the UCI have changed from the alleged cover ups of old?

I don't know but if a team end up with 2 riders under suspicion at once it isn't going to end well for Sky or their management team.

buffalo

ashleey wrote: »

I know what you're suggesting but surely the fact that this 'out there' suggests that the UCI have changed from the alleged cover ups of old?

If I understand it correctly, the UCI didn't release any public information, Team Sky did.

ashleey

buffalo wrote: »

If I understand it correctly, the UCI didn't release any public information, Team Sky did.

This could get interesting in that case. I would imagine the McQuaid lads are sharpening their pencils

MichealD

buffalo wrote: »

If I understand it correctly, the UCI didn't release any public information, Team Sky did.

But only after Gazzetta had published a report about it his morning.....

ROK ON

Bio passport for a rider shows up with some irregularities.
Uci communicate this to team.
Team withdraws rider.
Team then tries to analyse the irregularities in question.

Sorry - is this not precisely what the sport should have been doing all along?

Bio passport does not prove doping, simply a change in the bio readings from the athlete. The reasons for the change need to be assessed.
That seems to be what will happen.

ragazzo

ashleey wrote: »

This could get interesting in that case. I would imagine the McQuaid lads are sharpening their pencils

Mc Quaid was cast as a devil with a dubious record with Cookson coming in as the Knight in White Satin, armed with an army of cleansers, to wash the corruption and malpractice from the ranks of the UCI for evermore.
Let's hope that the new UCI regime live up to expectations in their stated tasks. It would be nice to believe that all teams are treated equally regardless of relationship with the UCI personnel or indeed perceived nationality.

Time will tell..I suppose.

Chips Lovell

ROK ON wrote: »

Bio passport for a rider shows up with some irregularities.
Uci communicate this to team.

The team found what it thinks are irregularities and communicated them to the UCI.

Lumen

Is this a reading comprehension test?

ZiabR

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

The team found what it thinks are irregularities and communicated them to the UCI.

And that needs to be commended.

spyderski

Is anyone who has actually read (and understood) the article prepared to give a summary here?

Inquitus

spyderski wrote: »

Is anyone who has actually read (and understood) the article prepared to give a summary here?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sergio-henao-taken-off-sky-roster-due-to-test-anomalies

The UCI Responds

The UCI does not comment on individual cases but as a matter of principle we are supportive of teams pursuing a policy of closely monitoring their athletes,” a UCI spokesperson told Cyclingnews.

“This is something that has been monitored by the team,” they added.

"This is their own programme and that’s very important because that’s why we’re supportive of their programme and the approach to it and to suspend the rider. The monitoring and the programme is a matter for them.”

“If a team has any concerns, then the appropriate course of action may well be to withdraw him from its race schedule whilst it continues its investigations.”

When asked if the UCI would study Henao’s blood passport or hand over the data to the team, the UCI said, “If they request, then why not? The press release says clearly they will do further research on their own. We don’t exclude it but it depends on them and whether they request additional help.”

elnino23

It amazes me how many people are delighted by this!

corny

Fair play to Team Sky, they get on top of these anomalies fast. Part of their success no doubt.

godtabh

The fact that the are openly questioning it (even if it was promoted by SDS) I think is a good thing. Rather than cover it up they are being pro active rather than being reactive.

Even if there is something going on (and I dont believe there is) it will be an individual mistake rather than a team mistake. Either way Sky will get hammered by the media and boards.

ashleey

If they do get 'hammered' or indeed if the same happens to the UCI, then it would be because of the usual confusion: in today's 'Independent' the original test is described;

"Our experts had questions about Sergio's out-of-competition control tests at altitude – tests introduced this winter by the anti-doping authorities," said Dave Brailsford, Sky's principal.

And then earlier in the same article as;

Sky have informed the UCI, cycling's governing body, of the findings and stressed Henao has not been found guilty of any doping offence. The further tests in Colombia will be conducted by independent experts and their findings will be made public.

It looks like Sky tested him and were worried and so notified everyone but the tests were introduced by the authorities and thus Sky had to inform them.

So does that mean that teams are doing the testing on behalf of the UCI?

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/henao-set-to-miss-giro-as-team-sky-play-safe-30109235.html

Chips Lovell

Sky didn't do the test. They have access to anti-doping testing results.

RobFowl

Is it just me or are Sky and the UCI not doing everything as they should here?
An odd possibly suspicious test result was noted, didn't prove anything but warranted further tests which are now being done and the rider is out of competition pending the outcome..
What more could anyone do here........

Ps compare this to the action taken on Armstrong's suspicious test (not a positive test) back in the day.....

death1234567

Seems as though there is some healthy cynicism in this thread. FWIW I think this could be a case of sailing too close to the wind. All teams (athletes) train at altitude to boost the number of Red blood cells in their blood. The same effect you get from taking EPO. There's a 50% hemocrit level (measures red blood cells) that you can't pass otherwise it's assumed you are doping. I would assume the question here is that when a "altitude native" goes back up to 2000m+ metres above sea level is his body able to produce so much red blood cells that he breaks the limit even though he hasn't taken any drugs?

"free from doping" Cycling is now in the same boat as long distance running where competitors with the genetics of being born at altitude (Ethiopian and Kenyan runners, Colombian cyclists like Quintana, Betancur, Henao) have a significant advantages over most people.

dave_o_brien

RobFowl wrote: »

Is it just me or are Sky and the UCI not doing everything as they should here?
An odd possibly suspicious test result was noted, didn't prove anything but warranted further tests which are now being done and the rider is out of competition pending the outcome..
What more could anyone do here........

Ps compare this to the action taken on Armstrong's suspicious test (not a positive test) back in the day.....

I agree entirely.

The thing is that there are now 2 Sky team members who have a cloud of suspicion over them. Even if the team have acted impeccably and to the letter and spirit of the law in suspending them and fully cooperating with the authorities, the fact remains that 2 of their riders had suspicious blood profiles the year after their 2nd consecutive TdeF victory. This does nothing to instill a belief that there are not underlying issues in the sport in general, and this team in particular. I'm not saying there is anything untoward here, but in the public opinion, this is familiar territory, even if the procedure is more transparent.