New Circular- WHY??

byhookorbycrook

http://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0017_2014.pdf

Funny how Quinn snuck this one in under the radar.

As primary teacher I find this circular a worrying document.
Starting with the Department Pupil Identifier-
Internal Department Identifying number used to track pupils through the education system

League tables anyone??? Whose proficiency?? Cue coaching for tests on a widespread basis.
Standardised test scores in English Irish and Mathematics For the purposes of monitoring proficiency levels by the Qualifications, Curriculum and Assessment policy area of the Department

Is the info below not covered by the census?

o which ethnic or cultural background group does your child belong (please tick one)?
White Irish
Irish Traveller
Roma
Any other White Background
Black African
Any other Black Background
Chinese
Any other Asian background
Other, including mixed race backgrounds

What difference does it make if a child were say of an Italian background with little or no English Vs. an "any other black background" to the DES?
Will we need to DNA test children to decide what constitutes "mixed race?"
Horrid undertones of Nazi "pure race" ideas come to mind.

ytareh

More of the perverse disassembly of our once proud educational system by politician traitors with the collusion of union turncoats .They don't give a damn that they're mimicking the catastrophically failing UK and USA systems as their kids won't be attending 'our 'schools .Maybe the backhanders have already started coming in from those in the private sector who are interested in setting up 'academies'/ 'charter schools' once they've ran the public system into the ground .
Of course I'm just a 'militant' 'ranter'.....all is rosey in the world of education ....I just IMAGINED I saw a teacher from the staff room from a year or two ago behind the till at a local supermarket ...No need for any one to get angry at all .Just roll over sheeple .....SNAFU

evolving_doors

Although when it comes right down to it, it is up to the parents to sign (or not sign) the consent form and know what they are signing up to. Could the parents say no and then the school could turn around and say... "well we need to store your details somewhere so how will we contact you incase of emergency"? Will the category 3 database be used by the school as the default address book.. so if you want your kids to be on that do you have to sign them up to category 1 & 2?

Also the issue I have with that is... will the forum be shoved under the parents noses along with all the other forms and info pack during enrolment? Or.. are the school required to explain to each parent what exactly the purposes of the form are and all the ins and outs of data protection?

byhookorbycrook

But what purpose does it serve to seek such detail?

happywithlife

As a non primary teacher can I clarify when this is sought by the dept! I'm enroll ing a child in primary at the mo for next yr and we had a very generic "consent form" that needed signing. I initially didn't sign it as it was very vague but those of us that hadn't it signed were pretty much made do it on the info night ...principal passed it off for info sharing when it came to second level or changing schools and that it was "easier for everyone" to have it signed now. Does this relate to this curricular? I'd be highly annoyed if it were.
Nothing to hide but am dead against such profiling of students and league tables

byhookorbycrook

We look for contact details and for permission to say, bring the child to a dr., if needed, as well as info on medical conditions. I can't see how info on what country a black child is from or if a child is "mixed race" is of any use to the school. I feel schools are being used as statistic factories for the DES, adding to piles of pointless paperwork to satisfy some passing notion someone in the DES has.

implausible

I'm going to not be cynical and imagine that they are trying to streamline a few things and enable themselves to track students through the system (though I do note that it only applies to primary at the moment).

I know of parents who have been sent letters asking them to confirm that their child is in school for child benefit purposes, this form might eliminate that. I also know that schools have to retain students (U-16) on their books until another school confirms enrolment and this is costing the Dept, especially if those students move around a lot or are enrolled in a different type of programme e.g. Youthreach. There is a big push on for transition between primary and secondary schools and it's obligatory to pass on standardised test results to the receiving school. PISA ain't exactly reliable, maybe our own figures will paint a more accurate and reliable picture.

Now, I'm guessing, but some of these issues could be solved by a system whereby a student can be tracked through the system.

As for ethnicity, there is a different capitation for traveller students and this information is already requested of parents.

As far as I can see, it has been run through Data Protection and if this helps organisation and planning, it might be a good thing.

byhookorbycrook

I can see the case for capitation for travellers, but why seek everyone's racial "mix?" In primary a child stays on the roll until another school confirms they have enrolled them- so you can't be enrolled in two schools at a time. The transfer to secondary is already in place and as of the end of this year there will ALSO be a report card especially for 6th that goes with them as well.

The standardized test thing is going to lead to league tables. no question. It will mean the end of any integrity tests will have ,they were never meant to rank pupils. The tests are not to be taken in isolation , yet that is exactly what will happen

Who is supposed to do all of the work involved with this? The new system for ALL of this info isn't compatible with admin software such as Aladdin.

killbillvol2

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I can see the case for capitation for travellers, but why seek everyone's racial "mix?" In primary a child stays on the roll until another school confirms they have enrolled them- so you can't be enrolled in two schools at a time. The transfer to secondary is already in place and as of the end of this year there will ALSO be a report card especially for 6th that goes with them as well.

The standardized test thing is going to lead to league tables. no question. It will mean the end of any integrity tests will have ,they were never meant to rank pupils. The tests are not to be taken in isolation , yet that is exactly what will happen

Who is supposed to do all of the work involved with this? The new system for ALL of this info isn't compatible with admin software such as Aladdin.

Not any more. The "prequel" to this circular changed that. They now come off the roll after 20 days.

On the general point I'd agree that this is information gathering on a Big Brother scale and I'd like to see the justification for it.

evolving_doors

Is there an option to opt out (without any recriminations) on the form?

byhookorbycrook

Opt out of sending in the results etc or filling in info on "pedigree"?

spurious

I wonder what category they would have put Phil Lynott or Paul McGrath? Half black or half white?
Terrible load of nonsense - I suppose they lifted it from the UK, about 40 years ago.

evolving_doors

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Opt out of sending in the results etc or filling in info on "pedigree"?

Opt out of EVERYTHING!!!

They have a 'suggested' form at the end of the circular.. but nowhere does it say that the parent is free to opt out of this process. If not then technically the whole 'consent' thing is false. For there to be true consent then there must be an option not to consent (or opt out) without recrimination.

Could I just say to the school... "No. sorry I don;t give consent" and just not fill it in? Can I just ask that my contact details be put into the 'regular' school system only... Is the implication here that the 'regular' school system is being phased out by the department (The Aladdin system you referred to earlier).

While there is data protection and all that mumbo jumbo, there still has to be an ethical conduct. The department can;t force you to sign your child's details into some database. You can;t be discriminated by a school by not signing this document... yet we all know the way that it's going to go... here's the goddam form, just sign it and stop being a troublemaker, everyone else has signed it.

byhookorbycrook

I take particular issue with the "insert school logo here" bit, if the DES hasn't the liathróidí to put their own logo on this, why should schools. Yes, we continue to ape the failed English system where a large amount of NQTs drop out within 5 years.

evolving_doors

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I take particular issue with the "insert school logo here" bit, if the DES hasn't the liathróidí to put their own logo on this, why should schools. Yes, we continue to ape the failed English system where a large amount of NQTs drop out within 5 years.

Yes that's true.. By just putting the schools logo on it the inference is that it is just a school database.. which it is anything but...

dambarude

There was an article in the IPPN on this a few months ago. At the time I thought that the POD would be used in a similar fashion to Aladdin, to render the Leabhair Rollaí obsolete. Going by this circular it would appear that that is not the case.

byhookorbycrook, I cannot find the reference to standardised test results in the circular, where is that?

I pity the secretaries who'll be faced with entering all this data from scratch.

strawberrie

Or the teaching principals who only have part time secretaries who will end up doing it on top of their two full time jobs. Enough. The department are inviting feedback on POD at the moment. Looking forward to typing that up.
Putting in all pupils standardised test results will be used to take supports away from schools where pupil's results are rising or children are doing well. Monitoring individual performance will lead to teaching to the test. Classifying children by ethnic background is unnecessary and just plain wrong. Gathering information on the population is the job of the census, not our schools. Educating our children should be the main focus for schools.

evolving_doors

strawberrie wrote: »

Or the teaching principals who only have part time secretaries who will end up doing it on top of their two full time jobs. Enough. The department are inviting feedback on POD at the moment. Looking forward to typing that up.
Putting in all pupils standardised test results will be used to take supports away from schools where pupil's results are rising or children are doing well. Monitoring individual performance will lead to teaching to the test. Classifying children by ethnic background is unnecessary and just plain wrong. Gathering information on the population is the job of the census, not our schools. Educating our children should be the main focus for schools.

Excellent points... Where are the Dept looking for feedback? Is there a link or is it by snailmail? Cheers

strawberrie

Email : pod@education.gov.ie