If you had 50 acres and didn't want to farm it, what would you do?

learnerplates

50 acres of average land

Full time professional career and not living in the same area.

Without selling the farm what would you do?



Top priorities is that the farm pays for itself :cool: and it is kept well .

Conmaicne Mara

lease it at a realistic rate to a progressive responsible farmer, not one who will just pillage the place and put nothing back into it.

aneala

What part of the country are you in?

learnerplates

aneala wrote: »

What part of the country are you in?

Land is close to Roscommon town.

on the river

learnerplates wrote: »

Land is close to Roscommon town.

which side

aneala

learnerplates wrote: »

Land is close to Roscommon town.

Too far from me:mad:

Like said above, set it on a long term lease to someone who will look after it. Maybe put stipulations into lease, % of land reseeded each year, has to be at index 2-3 for P,K, when lease is up etc. Its nothing any progressive farmer wouldn't be doing anyway and would be an easy way to weed out the lads looking to run it into the ground

learnerplates

aneala wrote: »

Too far from me:mad:

Like said above, set it on a long term lease to someone who will look after it. Maybe put stipulations into lease, % of land reseeded each year, has to be at index 2-3 for P,K, when lease is up etc. Its nothing any progressive farmer wouldn't be doing anyway and would be an easy way to weed out the lads looking to run it into the ground

Thanks Aneala,

I'd be interested in leasing to a good farmer, is this what you mean by a progressive farmer?

What is index 2-3 and P, K?

How is land for lease advertised and managed?

I'd prefer to be out of the loop and get someone trustworthy. I'd prefer to make the process objective as possible ( I don't want to fall out with neighbours etc and this part of the country is well known for it ).


Any other suggestions/alternatives to leasing?


Thanks.

Muckit

learnerplates wrote: »

Land is close to Roscommon town.

Right good fattening land so! Ivan Connaughton should be able to set it for you no bother! Let the likes of him manage the lease, he'I take his cut, but you won't have the phone calls or the hassle of having to be chasing up money. Make sure he doesn't let it to a lad with horses!!

sheebadog

Sell it.

bbam

sheebadog wrote: »

Sell it.

In many ways I agree... Get the land over to a farmer to get full value from it..
However OP may be keeping the option to work it himself down the line... can't blame a fella for that.

jay gatsby

Probably get eaten alive here for this but I'll throw it into the mix anyway.

Plant it! Probably better return from that than letting it if it's middling land.

Harrier1980

jay gatsby wrote: »

Probably get eaten alive here for this but I'll throw it into the mix anyway.

Plant it! Probably better return from that than letting it if it's middling land.

With what? Forestry?

sopretty

Is it just fields you have?

learnerplates

sopretty wrote: »

Is it just fields you have?

3 sheds too. 1 is a slatted shed.
All fields are currently for grazing.

learnerplates

Harrier1980 wrote: »

With what? Forestry?

I was trying to think what could be planted and cropped every year that would give a return without much work but I know nothing about crops.

Forrestry could be possible but I think the land maybe too good! there maybe 4 acres on lower land which might suit forestry.

I said

Sell it and stop making everyone jealous about what ya should do with it if ya don't want it.lol

porter shark

Lease it to a good progressive farmer, put all the conditions u want on it, if he's a good farmer they'll suit him.

I m at the other end in same situation, only advice I have is stay away from auctioneer, they attract pricks and repel good men. My landlady went to an auctioneer, he had loads of interested farmers, I told him they were all pricks and not to be wasting the lady's time.... Three weeks later she came back to me herself and we dealt.

Don't be lookin for the last penny, I reckon the men that pay the last penny often don't make the last payment.

Farmer Pudsey

If you never intend to farm it I would advise selling it. If you are interested in farming next tuesday there may be changes in taxation that would allow you to sell and replace it with land where you are based.

However if you maybe intend going back there in the medium term I would lease it. If you do not want hassle with leasee then use a good auctioneering firm. I would look for a good (not necessary progressive) farmer, good progressive usually means young and these may not have the finiancial managment skills they think they have. Very hard to insert clauses regarding reseeding and fertility. A lad could reseed with Hybrids/RVP that only have 3-4 year lifespans. I would have conditions re weeds and ragworth, fences, hedges and maintenance of sheds. After that the other lad has to make a few bob as well.

rancher

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

If you never intend to farm it I would advise selling it. If you are interested in farming next tuesday there may be changes in taxation that would allow you to sell and replace it with land where you are based.

However if you maybe intend going back there in the medium term I would lease it. If you do not want hassle with leasee then use a good auctioneering firm. I would look for a good (not necessary progressive) farmer, good progressive usually means young and these may not have the finiancial managment skills they think they have. Very hard to insert clauses regarding reseeding and fertility. A lad could reseed with Hybrids/RVP that only have 3-4 year lifespans. I would have conditions re weeds and ragworth, fences, hedges and maintenance of sheds. After that the other lad has to make a few bob as well.

Tillage farmers usually are a better bet as tenants around here than grass farmers, look after it much better.
Also better if you want to keep you SFP

mf240

rancher wrote: »

Tillage farmers usually are a better bet as tenants around here than grass farmers, look after it much better.
Also better if you want to keep you SFP

Ya roscommon is known for its wheat and barley barrons.:D:

If you think it's two good for planting sell it and buy a bigger acerage of poorer land and plant that, which will increase your annual payment.

learnerplates

Selling is the last resort.

It is possible, as a previous poster mentioned, that I may wish to return some time in the future, this is a possibility.

I'm really looking for the land to be returned to me in 20yrs time in the same or better condition than it is in today. And along the way maybe I'll get a small annual income.

LivInt20

learnerplates wrote: »

Selling is the last resort.

It is possible, as a previous poster mentioned, that I may wish to return some time in the future, this is a possibility.

I'm really looking for the land to be returned to me in 20yrs time in the same or better condition than it is in today. And along the way maybe I'll get a small annual income.

A long term lease 7 or 10 years.

Better from a Taxation point of very.

You should get some professional advice.

cristeoir

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

If you never intend to farm it I would advise selling it. If you are interested in farming next tuesday there may be changes in taxation that would allow you to sell and replace it with land where you are based.

However if you maybe intend going back there in the medium term I would lease it. If you do not want hassle with leasee then use a good auctioneering firm. I would look for a good (not necessary progressive) farmer, good progressive usually means young and these may not have the finiancial managment skills they think they have. Very hard to insert clauses regarding reseeding and fertility. A lad could reseed with Hybrids/RVP that only have 3-4 year lifespans. I would have conditions re weeds and ragworth, fences, hedges and maintenance of sheds. After that the other lad has to make a few bob as well.

Hi Farmer Pudsey, I was just wondering what you meant by changes in taxation next tuesday cos I am in a similar situation to the OP except that I desperately want to sell my land and move away from where I am at the moment but I want to buy a similar size farm . Because there is no rollover relief I would have to pay 33% capital gains tax leaving me unable to buy anything viable elsewhere, I am nearly 50 feel like a prisoner- it is so bloody unfair!

rancher

cristeoir wrote: »

Hi Farmer Pudsey, I was just wondering what you meant by changes in taxation next tuesday cos I am in a similar situation to the OP except that I desperately want to sell my land and move away from where I am at the moment but I want to buy a similar size farm . Because there is no rollover relief I would have to pay 33% capital gains tax leaving me unable to buy anything viable elsewhere, I am nearly 50 feel like a prisoner- it is so bloody unfair!

Did you ever ask an accountant what tax you would have to pay, it might surprise you, I had land cpo'd in the real good times, owned the land 30 yrs, got many times/acre what agr land is making now, CGT worked out at 10% after all allowances were taken into account, cant see a big CGT bill at present values

LivInt20

cristeoir wrote: »

Hi Farmer Pudsey, I was just wondering what you meant by changes in taxation next tuesday cos I am in a similar situation to the OP except that I desperately want to sell my land and move away from where I am at the moment but I want to buy a similar size farm . Because there is no rollover relief I would have to pay 33% capital gains tax leaving me unable to buy anything viable elsewhere, I am nearly 50 feel like a prisoner- it is so bloody unfair!

What's unfair?

The fact that you own land and want to move??

cristeoir

Thanks for reply rancher ,I was just doing rough figures myself . The land is only inmy name for the last 15 years even though I have been farming it since I was 20 and built sheds and done reseeding and drainage before my mother died and I inherited it in 1999.
I cannot see any justification for the removal of roll over relief .

learnerplates

Can we stay on the initial thread?

If you had 50 acres and didn't want to farm it (right now), what would you do?

Selling is the last resort.

cristeoir

LivInt20 wrote: »

What's unfair?

The fact that you own land and want to move??

What I feel is unfair is that if I sell this land I will not have enough money to buy the same amount of land where I want to move to. All I have is 50 acres with a sfp of 9000 euro and almost 3000 euro disadvantaged areas giving me an annual income of 12000 euro . I farm fulltime so that is why I would like to be able to replace like for like!

sopretty

learnerplates wrote: »

Can we stay on the initial thread?

If you had 50 acres and didn't want to farm it (right now), what would you do?

Selling is the last resort.

Well, you probably don't want to do something irreversible or drastic to it I suppose.
What has the farm been used for, up until now?

Is it common for people to lease entire farms, rather than a few acres to add to their own farm?
I don't know, as I'm not a farmer - just a farmer's daughter. :pac:

cristeoir

learnerplates wrote: »

Can we stay on the initial thread?

If you had 50 acres and didn't want to farm it (right now), what would you do?

Selling is the last resort.

Sorry learnerplates I didn't mean to hijack your thread. Regarding your situation I think you are best putting it up for long term leasing say five years and then you won't have to pay tax on the money you get for it, just be sure to do it through a good auctioneer you can trust
Just to add I would not advise you to contemplate selling it with the amount of capital gains tax you would have to pay.

bogman_bass

learnerplates wrote: »

I was trying to think what could be planted and cropped every year that would give a return without much work but I know nothing about crops.

Forrestry could be possible but I think the land maybe too good! there maybe 4 acres on lower land which might suit forestry.

Forestry is like any crop. better land means a better crop.

with Pentions going the way they are I'm seriously considering planting a few acres for my doteage

sopretty

bogman_bass wrote: »

Forestry is like any crop. better land means a better crop.

with Pentions going the way they are I'm seriously considering planting a few acres for my doteage

Is converting land to forestry not an irreversible thing though?

LivInt20

cristeoir wrote: »

What I feel is unfair is that if I sell this land I will not have enough money to buy the same amount of land where I want to move to. All I have is 50 acres with a sfp of 9000 euro and almost 3000 euro disadvantaged areas giving me an annual income of 12000 euro . I farm fulltime so that is why I would like to be able to replace like for like!

Did you buy the land in the beginning?

cristeoir

LivInt20 wrote: »

Did you buy the land in the beginning?

Yes I bought it with something that no money can replace - MY YOUTH MY BLOOD SWEAT AND TEARS AND MOST IMPORTANTLY MY HEALTH.
Anyways my question was addressed to Pudsey so why don't you pick your fight with someone else.

Milked out

If there is housing on the land a long term lease to a dairy farm would be ideal, Im my case i could rear all replacements on it and house them there too which would save me large initial capital spend on home block when expanding, and if i want the stock to reach the targets the land and facilities will have to be taken care off. Of course that could be said of most livestock enterprises too not just dairy, finishers etc also.
Talk to a profeisonal either way preferably someone you trust

frazzledhome

rancher wrote: »

Did you ever ask an accountant what tax you would have to pay, it might surprise you, I had land cpo'd in the real good times, owned the land 30 yrs, got many times/acre what agr land is making now, CGT worked out at 10% after all allowances were taken into account, cant see a big CGT bill at present values

Go back and look at the contract, I'd imagine that the overall was multiples of ah value. When disturbance, injurious affection etc you'll find that the land value was very close to ah value hence the lower CGT

Farmer Pudsey

cristeoir wrote: »

Hi Farmer Pudsey, I was just wondering what you meant by changes in taxation next tuesday cos I am in a similar situation to the OP except that I desperately want to sell my land and move away from where I am at the moment but I want to buy a similar size farm . Because there is no rollover relief I would have to pay 33% capital gains tax leaving me unable to buy anything viable elsewhere, I am nearly 50 feel like a prisoner- it is so bloody unfair!

I think next Tuesday the Government is supposed to publish the the recomendations on far taxation. There will be changes to taxation on leaseing etc. There is a rumour that roll over relief may come back

cristeoir wrote: »

Sorry learnerplates I didn't mean to hijack your thread. Regarding your situation I think you are best putting it up for long term leasing say five years and then you won't have to pay tax on the money you get for it, just be sure to do it through a good auctioneer you can trust
Just to add I would not advise you to contemplate selling it with the amount of capital gains tax you would have to pay.

At present leasing relief is only available to farmers and you have to be over 40

cristeoir wrote: »

Yes I bought it with something that no money can replace - MY YOUTH MY BLOOD SWEAT AND TEARS AND MOST IMPORTANTLY MY HEALTH.
Anyways my question was addressed to Pudsey so why don't you pick your fight with someone else.

If you bought it CGT might not be as serious issue as you think it is only on the capital gain that you have made that is taxable. There is other ways around such as buy a bit of land near you make it you base then sell and buy next to new base. However get an expert in the area to confirm

cristeoir

Thanks for that Pudsey, I really hope the rumours are right. Unfortunately I don't have the money to buy any land elsewhere without selling here first.

zydecoannie

Do not put it into forestry! Once you sign on the dotted line you can never put it back to agricultural use...:eek:

Good loser

Forestry is a way of turning land worth €8 -10,000 per acre into land worth €2 -3,000 per acre

micraX

zydecoannie wrote: »

Do not put it into forestry! Once you sign on the dotted line you can never put it back to agricultural use...:eek:

Can you not? Field beside us was forest, some was cut a few years ago rest was cut last year, roots dug up and there was barley sown in it last spring.

Farmer Pudsey

zydecoannie wrote: »

Do not put it into forestry! Once you sign on the dotted line you can never put it back to agricultural use...:eek:

micraX wrote: »

Can you not? Field beside us was forest, some was cut a few years ago rest was cut last year, roots dug up and there was barley sown in it last spring.

You can return it to mainstream agriculture provided you replace the forestry land somewhere else. What this means if I bought good land with trees planted I could buy poorer quality land and plant same

micraX

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

You can return it to mainstream agriculture provided you replace the forestry land somewhere else. What this means if I bought good land with trees planted I could buy poorer quality land and plant same

What if you don't? I'm not being smart. Just wondering.

Farmer Pudsey

micraX wrote: »

What if you don't? I'm not being smart. Just wondering.

I presume that you are not allowed to use it for SFP, DA and Nitrates

rancher

frazzledhome wrote: »

Go back and look at the contract, I'd imagine that the overall was multiples of ah value. When disturbance, injurious affection etc you'll find that the land value was very close to ah value hence the lower CGT

Don't think so, I remember revenue trying to break it down and make the disturbance, injurious affection etc. liable for income tax, which in my case could be 40%, CGT I thought was the lesser of two evils.
I was involved big time at the time, but can't really remember it now, very unlikely we got away without paying some sort of tax on the add-ons and CGT was the only tax I paid, so it must have been on the whole figure.
I do remember having to pay 40% income tax on the interest that accrued over the negotiating period

Dont be daft

learnerplates wrote: »

Can we stay on the initial thread?

If you had 50 acres and didn't want to farm it (right now), what would you do?

Selling is the last resort.

Do you want to farm in the future or do you want to farm just this farm in the future.
There's a big difference between the two.

You mention selling as a last resort. I take it from this that it is an option. If the ties that rationalize the totally insane concept of holding onto a high value-minuscule return asset where really there, it wouldn't be an option.

Basically ask yourself "If I had 500k in the bank, and didn't own this farm, would I buy it?"
If I was in your boat and the answer was "No", I'd sell it in a heartbeat.

robp

learnerplates wrote: »

50 acres of average land

Full time professional career and not living in the same area.

Without selling the farm what would you do?



Top priorities is that the farm pays for itself :cool: and it is kept well .

I would plant it with trees under the native woodland scheme and produce quality hardwoods and firewood. Though I would justify this more by my personal interest then economics.

StopWatch

I'm in a similar situation to the O.P myself, it's certainly not a bad position to be in, but it can be a head scratcher.
For me I avoided Farming as a young fella, and to be honest, still have no interest in it. There's a hesitance to sell, just due to history and family ties, so leasing to the right person seems the most sensible option, and yet, as simple as it all sounds, i have zero idea as to how to go about even that.

Another poster put it well in asking if you had the money would you buy the farm, and for me that struck home, as the answer would definitely be no.
Still not sure which way i go, i wish the O.P well in whatever choice they make. It's a good situation to be in, in one sense.

frazzledhome

rancher wrote: »

Don't think so, I remember revenue trying to break it down and make the disturbance, injurious affection etc. liable for income tax, which in my case could be 40%, CGT I thought was the lesser of two evils.
I was involved big time at the time, but can't really remember it now, very unlikely we got away without paying some sort of tax on the add-ons and CGT was the only tax I paid, so it must have been on the whole figure.
I do remember having to pay 40% income tax on the interest that accrued over the negotiating period

We were in the same boat but as I recall we weren't taxed on the compensation (all monies except land value). It's amazing that for such a big deal at the time we can't remember. I recall people being so upset at the time you'd think we'd never forget

Farmer Pudsey

StopWatch wrote: »

I'm in a similar situation to the O.P myself, it's certainly not a bad position to be in, but it can be a head scratcher.
For me I avoided Farming as a young fella, and to be honest, still have no interest in it. There's a hesitance to sell, just due to history and family ties, so leasing to the right person seems the most sensible option, and yet, as simple as it all sounds, i have zero idea as to how to go about even that.

Another poster put it well in asking if you had the money would you buy the farm, and for me that struck home, as the answer would definitely be no.
Still not sure which way i go, i wish the O.P well in whatever choice they make. It's a good situation to be in, in one sense.

It is a tricky one. However IMO if you have no interest in farming you are more than likly better off selling. If you decide you should like in the case of anything watch the market and pick a good time to sell. Inlast thursday's Farmers Journal there was a supplement about land prices and advice on selling. Always remember that it is not possible to get the top price.

If I was interested in farming and it was too far away I would more than likly sell and use the money to finance a land purchasse near me. If you owned your own house and sold a 50 acre farm It would give you a substancial sum to invest in another farm and buildiong costs for houses are very compeditive at present.

If land is marginal I would consider planting under the forestry however higher rates are only available to farmers. I would not do this with good land. Having 400K+ in capital tied up in a resource that you have little interest in is not a good idea. However having the same money sitting in a bank without a good paln is not a great idea either. If leasing changes tomorrow to allow non farmers and those under 40 to longterm lease tax free it might be a option. However a 50 acre farm giving a return of 7.5K on a capital resource of 400k gives a return of less than 2%. Against that you have possible capital apprecation on land( however it could deprecaite as well).

All in all if you have no interest in farming it selling is the best option.

rancher

frazzledhome wrote: »

We were in the same boat but as I recall we weren't taxed on the compensation (all monies except land value). It's amazing that for such a big deal at the time we can't remember. I recall people being so upset at the time you'd think we'd never forget

We never actually got a breakdown of our final offer from the NRA, the only breakdown I ever had was my claim, which turned out to be a bit optimistic....surprisingly,;)
You obviously got a breakdown,