Six Nations Report Card.

Losty Dublin

Now that it is all over, it's a good time to sit down and see how everybody fared and the prospects for the near future.

Ireland. Lets call a spade a spade; most of us knew that Ireland could do as well as they have during this seasons campaign; the only thing going wrong was the inability to do it over 80 minutes for 5 games over 6 weeks. Certainly, Munster and Leinster have had no problem in doing it over the last decade while Ulster and at times Connaught have shown that the willingness to find the big game mentality is there as well. The question is this; what has been the difference this season? The answer IMO is not so much Joe Schmidt personally but more so a case of having the right man at the right time. Declan Kidney was that man in 2009 but as the game moved on his conservative team selections and over reliance on a few ageing players finally caught up with him while new talent was overlooked, the 2013 campaign especially.

So what has JS done differently? Simply put, he picks the right players for the right game plan and lets them do what they can do best; play well. This is exactly what he done at Leinster and it has resulted in instilled confidence aplenty into his team. He is not afraid to rotate and change players, he is not afraid to bleed in new faces and best of all, he isn't afraid to take chances with his men and he has made good of them all. Like a reinvented Andy Trimble, a man who has made us all forget Tommy Bowe's name. Like Devin Toner, who made a mockery of his supposedly lightweight playing style. Like Jack McGrath and Martin Moore, both of whom are new front row hero's in the making; the list seems endless. Meet Ireland on the field and the game is good in attack and defence, backs and forwards, slow and fast paced. That's why they are a worthy Six Nations Champions.

All in all, this new look team has a golden future ahead of it as 2015 and the RWC approaches us but the best part of it is that this team hasn't even come close to reaching it's potential. Granted a new centre partnership is needed while depth is needed at scrum half as Redden and Boss won't be there to cover Murray forever but the options will come through, make no bones about it There was no Sean O'Brien, no Tommy Bowe, no Mike McCarthy and no Rickhard Strauss; none of them were even missed.

Future Outlook. It can only get better. This squad are not even close to their peak.
Improvements. Who's to take on the 13 shirt? New options at scrum half and hooker need game time.
Best Players. Trimble, Ross, O'Driscoll, O'Connell, Henry.
Summer Tour Two tests in Argentina.
Seasons Grade. A+

England. Over the last 20 years England seem to forever be in transition as a team with the next big thing always coming into their 3/4 line with big things promised from him while behemoth pack members are always emerging from their clubs who are bigger than the man they replaced. And while more often than not these guys are as good and better than the next man, they end up being shunted out for the next big thing, who in turn gets shunted; see the pattern here? Look down the list of caps for this years squad if you disagree with me; the amount of England players with next to no caps is very high compared to the other squads.

Stuart Lancaster is the latest man send from HQ and so far he has done well. His young team playing excellent football this season yet being inexperienced to hold onto the big game win against France, a game they really should have won at a canter. While they dug out the win against Ireland, you have to wonder, if Scotland and especially Wales have have turned up, how firm the Rose would have held for the season? Probably very well but until asked hard questions, you won't know for sure. Still, a Triple Crown is ample reward for the year and in all honesty they deserved it.

This season, going with Farrell paid off as the young fly half had a wonderful season. Add in Courtney Lawes trogan campaign in the pack and Mike Brown playing like a demon and you had three class acts on the field. The rest? Well we don't know as they don't get as much ball as they could do with, when they do get caps. Stick with the rest of the squad for the season and this team will be a genuine RWC contender in 2015, make no bones about it. The question is this; will they stick with this squad? Lets hope not

Future Outlook. As with Ireland, this team will get better. How much they are let improve is up to management.
Improvements. As dynamic as they are, they don't trust their back line. With two wobbly wingers, they may well be right in this.
Best Players. Brown, Lawes, Farrell, Care, Robshaw.
Summer Tour. Ba-Bas in May and 3 tests versus the All Blacks
Season's Grade B+

Part 2 is on it's way; debate and comments welcome.

.ak

Cool review. I would argue that POC and maybe BOD don't really deserve to be in that short list tho. I'd have toner and Darce in their place.

its_phil

Great review. But it's bloody Connacht

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Best Players. Trimble, Ross, O'Driscoll, O'Connell, Henry.

Good review but I'd disagree here. I'd have POM/Toner as our two best players

padser

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Now that it is all over, it's a good time to sit down and see how everybody fared and the prospects for the near future.

Ireland. Lets call a spade a spade; most of us knew that Ireland could do as well as they have during this seasons campaign; the only thing going wrong was the inability to do it over 80 minutes for 5 games over 6 weeks. Certainly, Munster and Leinster have had no problem in doing it over the last decade while Ulster and at times Connaught have shown that the willingness to find the big game mentality is there as well. The question is this; what has been the difference this season? The answer IMO is not so much Joe Schmidt personally but more so a case of having the right man at the right time. Declan Kidney was that man in 2009 but as the game moved on his conservative team selections and over reliance on a few ageing players finally caught up with him while new talent was overlooked, the 2013 campaign especially.

So what has JS done differently? Simply put, he picks the right players for the right game plan and lets them do what they can do best; play well. This is exactly what he done at Leinster and it has resulted in instilled confidence aplenty into his team. He is not afraid to rotate and change players, he is not afraid to bleed in new faces and best of all, he isn't afraid to take chances with his men and he has made good of them all. Like a reinvented Andy Trimble, a man who has made us all forget Tommy Bowe's name. Like Devin Toner, who made a mockery of his supposedly lightweight playing style. Like Jack McGrath and Martin Moore, both of whom are new front row hero's in the making; the list seems endless. Meet Ireland on the field and the game is good in attack and defence, backs and forwards, slow and fast paced. That's why they are a worthy Six Nations Champions.

All in all, this new look team has a golden future ahead of it as 2015 and the RWC approaches us but the best part of it is that this team hasn't even come close to reaching it's potential. Granted a new centre partnership is needed while depth is needed at scrum half as Redden and Boss won't be there to cover Murray forever but the options will come through, make no bones about it There was no Sean O'Brien, no Tommy Bowe, no Mike McCarthy and no Rickhard Strauss; none of them were even missed.

Future Outlook. It can only get better. This squad are not even close to their peak.
Improvements. Who's to take on the 13 shirt? New options at scrum half and hooker need game time.
Best Players. Trimble, Ross, O'Driscoll, O'Connell, Henry.
Summer Tour Two tests in Argentina.
Seasons Grade. A+

England. Over the last 20 years England seem to forever be in transition as a team with the next big thing always coming into their 3/4 line with big things promised from him while behemoth pack members are always emerging from their clubs who are bigger than the man they replaced. And while more often than not these guys are as good and better than the next man, they end up being shunted out for the next big thing, who in turn gets shunted; see the pattern here? Look down the list of caps for this years squad if you disagree with me; the amount of England players with next to no caps is very high compared to the other squads.

Stuart Lancaster is the latest man send from HQ and so far he has done well. His young team playing excellent football this season yet being inexperienced to hold onto the big game win against France, a game they really should have won at a canter. While they dug out the win against Ireland, you have to wonder, if Scotland and especially Wales have have turned up, how firm the Rose would have held for the season? Probably very well but until asked hard questions, you won't know for sure. Still, a Triple Crown is ample reward for the year and in all honesty they deserved it.

This season, going with Farrell paid off as the young fly half had a wonderful season. Add in Courtney Lawes trogan campaign in the pack and Mike Brown playing like a demon and you had three class acts on the field. The rest? Well we don't know as they don't get as much ball as they could do with, when they do get caps. Stick with the rest of the squad for the season and this team will be a genuine RWC contender in 2015, make no bones about it. The question is this; will they stick with this squad? Lets hope not

Future Outlook. As with Ireland, this team will get better. How much they are let improve is up to management.
Improvements. As dynamic as they are, they don't trust their back line. With two wobbly wingers, they may well be right in this.
Best Players. Brown, Lawes, Farrell, Care, Robshaw.
Summer Tour. Ba-Bas in May and 3 tests versus the All Blacks
Season's Grade B+

Part 2 is on it's way; debate and comments welcome.

I like the idea but disagree with most of the analysis ;-)

Ireland badly need to find new leaders, the team is heavily reliant on BOD, Darcy, POC and Ross, 4 starters who will be gone or a year older (on top of already being old) next year. The young props you mention are second choice at their province (albeit they have potential) and showed coming on yesterday that they need more time to get ready for international rugby against top teams.

Don't get me wrong, Im absolutely delighted with the 6N and think Joe has done a fantastic job and the players have responded brilliantly to him.

BUT, in many ways the bigger test starts now in getting us ready for a World Cup and introducing the new blood that need to be test hardened and ready to lead in 18 months time.

We badly need, another tight head or for Ross to remain at current levels for 18 months (White might be a possibility here, have not seen much of him this yr though), a 13 to step up (could be cave, Payne, henshaw, Fitz, earls or less likely Bowe), SOB / Ferris to return, a genuine backup for Sexton to develop, and (although I know not everyone agrees on this) a better backup at scrumhalf for Murray.

A great start.....but a huge amount more to do. England look in better shape than Ireland do right now (although we do look in better nick than Wales or France).

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

padser wrote: »

Ireland badly need to find new leaders, the team is heavily reliant on BOD, Darcy, POC and Ross, 4 starters who will be gone or a year older

Are we? BOD and POC had quiet championships and we still won because we had guys like Toner/POM and Trimble standing up and putting in big performances

clsmooth

padser wrote: »

Ireland badly need to find new leaders, the team is heavily reliant on BOD, Darcy, POC and Ross, 4 starters who will be gone or a year older (on top of already being old) next year.

I think the likes of Sexton, Murray and POM will be the new leaders in coming years. Best is another leader, whilst Heaslip has been given the responsibly by several coaches so he must be somewhat of a leader too behind the scenes. Plenty of leaders in the team IMO. They'll only emerge after the likes of BOD and POC are gone.

Hagz

its_phil wrote: »

Great review. But it's bloody Connacht

What's wrong with saying Connaught?

bilston

Good post OP.

I wouldn't give us an A+ though, we did lose a game after all. I suppose it depends how you measure these things.

RuggieBear

Hagz wrote: »

What's wrong with saying Connaught?

it's the anglicised version used when Ireland was part of the UK.

But back on topic

Celly Smunt

I feel we really missed Sean O'brien over this campaign.

.ak

Celly Smunt wrote: »

I feel we really missed Sean O'brien over this campaign.

Yeah, pom and Henry did a great job but our back row was missing that bite. Would love to see fez and sob fully fit next year.

Swiwi.

Nice work LD.

Starting with England, I reckon you're a bit harsh with a B+, they were close to a GS. I'd say Lancaster would be pretty satisfied. I think their work-ons are obvious: after Scotland they must have botched the most try-scoring opportunities, they still lack the killer instinct/ability in the backs that NZ for example don't. Despite the feelings about him on this forum, Farrell is a pretty decent flyhalf, and if I was Lancaster I would stick with him. I think they need to sort out 12 (36 has disappointed me overall), but Tualagi/Burrell or Burrell/Tualagi might work, and I'm still not convinced about their wings.

Otherwise, their discipline (esp that man Hartley) cost them valuable points difference v Wales, and their scrum minus Cole & esp Corbisiero is solid but not destructive. Their bench could have more impact.

Now onto Ireland:

• Set-piece was excellent, a huge congrats to the forwards, and to the inspired selection of Plumtree, honed in SA forward play
• Bench was excellent for impact. Moore didn't come on (as in improve) as much as I'd hoped
• Excellent discipline, generally robust defence, stuck to gameplans

Work-ons:

• Missed a SOB-type presence. Easily fixed by medical care...
• Kicking in general play was a bit ropey at times, attack was sharp but could be sharper. Still think a player who can make something out of nothing would be a useful addition.
• I think Schmidt got his bench wrong on more than 1 occasion. I still don't think Murphy & Madigan was the right choice yesterday, and I'm not convinced Henderson is test ready yet.

I don't think you can give Ireland an A+, that implies perfection, with nothing left to do...

kenco

Dont post here enough but kids off the PC for a while!

England and Ireland the best kids in class this championship. Either could have had a Grand Slam as that game could have gone either way (also we both had tight games against France)

Discipline and planning won the Championship for us. Great effort by the players but full credit to Schmidt for his coaching. Dont agree with all his decisions but cant fault the results. He has brought a new level of professionalism and organisation. Roll on the World Cup!

We would have taken 3 wins and 2 away losses before the Championship (just) but this season has been promising with an incredible bench and new bloods challenging.

England coming on nicely and will be a challenge next year. France and Wales in transition but will be back. Italy better than expected but dont have the depth (perennial...). Scotland I fear for but fingers crossed....

duckysauce

Celly Smunt wrote: »

I feel we really missed Sean O'brien over this campaign.

And Fez ; Earls; D Ryan ; Bowe ; Zebo; fitz

pickarooney

Just to be contrary I don't think we missed O'Brien that much. For all the good it does the heart to watch a back rower go smashy smash you're always going to get penalties and scrums against you once they stop moving forward. How many big ball carriers made try creating runs this year compared to turned over possession?

danthefan

pickarooney wrote: »

Just to be contrary I don't think we missed O'Brien that much. For all the good it does the heart to watch a back rower go smashy smash you're always going to get penalties and scrums against you once they stop moving forward. How many big ball carriers made try creating runs this year compared to turned over possession?

Just cannot possibly agree with that, and I don't want to put words in your mouth but you seem to be suggesting a big ball carrier isn't especially valuable, which imo is just totally wrong. I guess in one context we obviously did get on without him because we won the tournament but I think we'd have beaten England if he was playing tbh.

This is not a dig at Henry, more a bigging up of SOB - but I think he does absolutely everything Henry does plus quite a bit more.

its_phil

pickarooney wrote: »

Just to be contrary I don't think we missed O'Brien that much. For all the good it does the heart to watch a back rower go smashy smash you're always going to get penalties and scrums against you once they stop moving forward. How many big ball carriers made try creating runs this year compared to turned over possession?

We might not have missed him but he is a massive bow to add to our already impressive string.

LorMal

danthefan wrote: »

Just cannot possibly agree with that, and I don't want to put words in your mouth but you seem to be suggesting a big ball carrier isn't especially valuable, which imo is just totally wrong. I guess in one context we obviously did get on without him because we won the tournament but I think we'd have beaten England if he was playing tbh.

This is not a dig at Henry, more a bigging up of SOB - but I think he does absolutely everything Henry does plus quite a bit more.

Yes agreed. But to be honest, I don't miss the amount of Penalties he concedes..needs to work on that.

WorldRugby99

not sure i can agree with the if o brien was fit we would have beaten england-what if england had had corbisiero,cole,tuilagi,yarde,croft etc fit? ifs,buts and maybes!
I would agree though that at his best hes a top class player and comes straight back into the side,preferably at 6,his best position. Yes there have been games when hes been a penalty machine,but games too where his carrying has been far more destructive than any other player.

Both wingers gone well,but tommy bowe still comes straight back into side for me too.And of course who plays 13 now?battle starts now!

argentina not really a great tour-doesnt really tell us much as argentina have regressed in recent times and i seem to recall when they played england last summer,they rested most of their best players for the championship(so hope that doesnt happen)

Losty Dublin

France.

Once upon a time there was a great rugby playing country called France. They used to be great at rugby. Now they aren't too sure about the game atall atall. Although we approach Paris bi annually with fear of some sort of trouncing the reality of it all is that the French record in the Six Nations has been patchy over the last decade or so, from 2010's Grand Slam to last seasons wooden spoon and defeat to the perennial whipping boys of Scotland and Italy. How long can they go, one must ask?

If one wants to go all analytical about it, we can look at squad indiscipline, bad man management and tactical calls from Phillipe Saint Andre, an inability to find a solid starting line up, injuries, some eccentric tactical calls and maybe a general lack of passion from the team as a whole. In truth the answer is a lot closer to home in the shape of an overly long domestic season which results in burnout of their player base. Current Top 14 leaders Toulon have already played 27 games this season; RABO and Aviva leaders Leinster and Northhampton just 22. Add to this their domestic cup and other games and you can see how stretched their players have become.

So, what positives can they draw from the season? Certainly from the Ireland game they showed that they can play and fight well when they want to play and fight while their back line were keen to show flashes of old glories. They have a wealth of players in every position plus they are capable of contending with all sorts of game plan. That said, the game playing plan on the day is inconsistent and dangerous as he is on the front, constantly feeding Bastardreaud is too predicable and easy dealt with by now while their play at the breakdown has gone to the pot. The summers tour will not be pretty unless changes are made.

Future Outlook. It has to get better for them but until the season is pared back and a new coach comes in then it won't improve anytime soon.
Improvements. They need a reliable kicker, a new coaching ethos and a consistent front row at all times.
Best Players. Picamole, Papé, Fofanu, Huget.
Summer Tour. 3 Tests in Australia.
Seasons Grade. D.

Wales

Warren Gatland's tend to be like the little girl with the little curl. When they are good, they are very very good. This season, Wales were generally horrid yet they had a lot of good in places.

After a mediocre November series, they almost threw away the first game against Wales and a sound thrashing in the Aviva only to reverse the slide by themselves thrashing France in Cardiff. While defeat to England was expected, it was how close a game it was that confused many onlookers while Scotland were brushed away with ease in their final games. Like France and Scotland, the domestic game in Wales has seen hard times but the WRU have steadied the ship somewhat while the quality players are still coming through, albeit in lesser numbers than those of previous years.

On field Wales expect entertainment and success and they do try but even by their standards Gatland has set the bar a little too high for himself to match. He has stuck by his mainstay players as a rule throughout his managerial career and as a result his players are loyal to him. However, new players were not there waiting in the wings to take over this season, resulting in no impact subs and few options by way of a plan B. Few of his players let the side down yet equally none stood out; only one of their players won a MOTM and even then it was in the rout against Scotland. When new players come in, they are bled young with the result that if they aren't burnt out young then it's a case of one bad game and their careers are in tatters. With this all in mind, it offers some promise as it wasn't their poorest season playing wise and the potential is there.

Future Outlook. Wales have a habit of playing a great season and a slack season. If this was the slack season.....
Improvements. Warren G needs to employ squad rotation and make use of fresh players if the team is expected to move forward as a whole.
Best Players. Halpenny, A W Jones, A Jones, North.
Summer Tour Two tests in South Africa.
Seasons Grade. C. Can and will do better.

danthefan

WorldRugby99 wrote: »

not sure i can agree with the if o brien was fit we would have beaten england-what if england had had corbisiero,cole,tuilagi,yarde,croft etc fit? ifs,buts and maybes!
I would agree though that at his best hes a top class player and comes straight back into the side,preferably at 6,his best position. Yes there have been games when hes been a penalty machine,but games too where his carrying has been far more destructive than any other player.

Both wingers gone well,but tommy bowe still comes straight back into side for me too.And of course who plays 13 now?battle starts now!

argentina not really a great tour-doesnt really tell us much as argentina have regressed in recent times and i seem to recall when they played england last summer,they rested most of their best players for the championship(so hope that doesnt happen)

Bolded - yeah that is a perfectly fair point.

And I guess when you compete like he does at the rucks you're going to end up getting penalised.

Again, I'm not trying to have a go at Henry because he had an excellent campaign, but there was an incident in the Italy game where he got the ball close enough to their line and had a run at the defenders, he got stopped dead and had the ball ripped from him. In a tighter game that could have been really costly.

prospect

padser wrote: »

Ireland badly need to find new leaders, the team is heavily reliant on BOD, Darcy, POC and Ross,

Best, Heaslip, O'Brien, O'Mahoney, Sexton are all currently capable of leading.

feargale

Let's hope everything is invested in the RWC next year. You won't see France or England going all out for the 6N in 2015. Let's hope Ireland don't make fools of themselves by doing so, shipping injuries on the way, as they've done in the past. There will be other seasons for the 6N. Let Italy have it next year.

corny

There's no way Adam Jones is one of Wales' key players anymore.

P_1

Swiwi. wrote: »

Nice work LD.

Starting with England, I reckon you're a bit harsh with a B+, they were close to a GS.

Quite true. Very close parallels with Ireland's season in 07. A last minute French try cost them the chance of a Grand Slam and leaking points against Italy when the game was won cost them the title.

Tox56

P_1 wrote: »

leaking points against Italy when the game was won cost them the title.

Seen this come up a few times, I don't think it's really accurate. They scored a try in the last minute and they limited Italy to just one try, and their PD was still 10 less than Ireland. Unless they had finished every single half-chance and shut Italy out completely I don't think their score could have been much better realistically speaking, and they were never likely to do anything in Italy that required Ireland to need anything more than a win in France. Certainly not comparable to what happened in 2007 imo.

pickarooney

Pape as one of France's best players? Mystifying.

hahashake

As a neutral it seems a bit strange to me to give England B+ and Ireland A+. I would say Ireland A and England A-.

Digifriendly

Losty Dublin wrote: »

France.

Once upon a time there was a great rugby playing country called France. They used to be great at rugby. Now they aren't too sure about the game atall atall. Although we approach Paris bi annually with fear of some sort of trouncing the reality of it all is that the French record in the Six Nations has been patchy over the last decade or so, from 2010's Grand Slam to last seasons wooden spoon and defeat to the perennial whipping boys of Scotland and Italy. How long can they go, one must ask?

France beat Scotland last year.

BoarHunter

I'll give my opinion on this. I think France are just after realizing after this tournament that the rules of the game are changing. Especially the scrum.

The scrum is sadly disappearing from the game of rugby. Where France had a tradition of capitalizing points from a dominant scrum, the exercise became more or less just a phase to recycle the ball back in play. Get the ball in and out, end of the story.

Some teams are quick to get the new rules and incorporate them like Ireland. It suited their scrum and their technical direction is probably more open and modern that the french one. In France it is just traditionally in the DNA of the game to impose an impact in the scrum and it seems that it is hard for les bleus to swallow the changes imposed by the new rules. It is a big blow

This obviously resulted in the french scrum being pinged constantly over the tournament which caused them to totally lose a lot of possession. The french scrum has a tradition of pushing low ( which is not allowed anymore ) with small and powerful props.

I expect this to be corrected with young props coming through like Slimani, Ric or bigger types like Debaty or Fresia from Toulon.

Although I think the long term vision of St Andre is that from the Autumn he will have the half pair from Castres ( Kockott - Tales ). This will bring a world class kicker in the team along with a unit that work well together. With the return of Fofana and Fritz in the centre this will feed opportunities to our back three.

I think the back three was one of the rare statisfaction of the tournament and it should be the one we will see in the 2015 WC. there is still a place to take on the left wing Medard, Clerc and Guitoune will compete for it and maybe Palisson if he gets game time in Toulouse next season. There are other contenders the like of Malzieu or even Julien Caminati from Grenoble.

the biggest work to come is the back row. Dusautoir is not the player he use to be. Nyanga is interesting. There are young players like Bruni, Gunther, Lapandry, Ouedraogo who can step in. It was hard to lose Bonnaire, Harinordoquy and the like and they are still badly missed.

So overall I am confident that France will fix the set piece and regain possession of the ball.
The game plan is not based on Bastareaud. It was only the truth of Saturday where we worked with what we had.

I will even throw a bit of optimism, in my opinion the French back line injury free will be the most dangerous looking in Europe. Once they have mourned the scrum as it was before and fixed it this will have plenty to capitalize on

Kockott
Tales
Guitoune Fofana Fritz Huget
Dulin

CatFromHue

I disagree on the scrum disappearing, if anything it's re appearing as for the last few years it was nearly all just about winning the hit. Win the hit and you more than likely won the scrum.

Now it actually appears to be a contest about pushing each other over the ball.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

The scrum is not disappearing . It's just no longer the shambles it was last season

BoarHunter

CatFromHue wrote: »

I disagree on the scrum disappearing, if anything it's re appearing as for the last few years it was nearly all just about winning the hit. Win the hit and you more than likely won the scrum.

Now it actually appears to be a contest about pushing each other over the ball.

we'll agree to disagree then because a scrum tradionally is all about the physical impact of the hit and then the second push. If you see how it is reffed now it's : yes 9 - ball in and out and if you are sensibly taller then your opposite prop then you wil easily make him touch the ground before you ...

On today's scrum there is a lot less technique involved and if you are big and strong that will do

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

BoarHunter wrote: »

we'll agree to disagree then because a scrum tradionally is all about the physical impact of the hit and then the second push. If you see how it is reffed now it's : yes 9 - ball in and out

On today's scrum there is a lot less technique involved and if you are big and strong that will do

It's not though. There were five or six scrum penalties in the Ireland France game

It's still a massive part of the game and can swing it either way

neilmulvey

P_1 wrote: »

Quite true. Very close parallels with Ireland's season in 07. A last minute French try cost them the chance of a Grand Slam and leaking points against Italy when the game was won cost them the title.

Englands points difference deficit compared to Irelands came from their game with wales. Ireland beat Wales by 23 points, england beat them by 11. So a big thanks to Dylan Hartley :cool:

Ireland conceded just 49 points, 4 tries.

England's inability to look up when they were camped on scotlands line for the entire second half in murrayfield hurt them too.

blackdog1

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Good review but I'd disagree here. I'd have POM/Toner as our two best players

Pom was fantastic for 2 games and only good for another 2. Total menace at breakdown. I think our frontrow as a unit was awesome. Never have I seen an irish frontrow demolish every scrum in the championship. Henry had a great tournament as did toner 2 mr consistency's.

BoarHunter

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

It's not though. There were five or six scrum penalties in the Ireland France game

It's still a massive part of the game and can swing it either way

This is due to the fact that the french scrum was composed of Domingo and Mas . Mighty props of the old scrum who got pinged from the beginning of the match and got penalized for pushing low. Once Debaty and Slimani came on the problem was fixed.

Losty Dublin

Note; I'll keep this short, partially because most of what can be said here hast been said elsewhere and partially because the state of the game in Scotland warrants it's own discussion thread as does where not for Italy; this we should come back to some time soon.

Italy and Scotland are cast at the whipping boys of the competition and this season was no exception. Although they both had a good campaign last year, it was attributed with misfortune and poor play from other countries than a raised game from them both. So what is going wrong with them both?

In the case of Italy, we are talking about what is very much a minority sport working with a minuscule budget, a tiny player base and with other more established clubs competing for what talented players that they do produce. To their credit, the FIR have worked with the IRB and ERC and, after some internal struggles, things are improving albeit slowly. Certainly they have no problem in finding forwards so hopes are high that over time there will be lots of new talent will come through to both complement and replace the likes of Parisse, Bergamasco and Castrogiavanni.

Future Outlook. As the old guard come to retirement, the new players need to be bled. There are signs that a good back line is forthcoming.
Improvements. Overall their rugby isn't too bad given the quality of their opposition and it should come over time. Discipline lets them down.
Best Players. The old reliables Parisse, Bergamasco, Castrogivanni and .
Summer Tour. Fiji, Samoa, Japan
Seasons Grade. D


Scotland on the other hand, is a basket case. Their player base is shrinking, schools are moving away from the oval ball, the on field play was gutless and passionless and there appears to be no apparent cure. The expectations are that Cotton will improve things but with just Hogg Dunbar and maybe Euan Murray impressing, things will get worse, far worse on field for the SRU before they begin to get better. It will be a long summers tour but without the the poison that was Scott Johnson's management over the last two years it can't be too bad. Can it?

Future Outlook. With no new talent on the way, it is going to get worse, Cotton will see them play less worse, if that's a good thing
Improvements. Everywhere but especially domestically.
Best Players. Hogg, Weir and at a push, Murray.
Summer Tour. US, Canada, Argentina, South Africa.
Seasons Grade. F

Losty Dublin

Digifriendly wrote: »

France beat Scotland last year.

Noted; it was a lapse on my part

pickarooney

why do Scotland rate worse than Italy?

Losty Dublin

pickarooney wrote: »

why do Scotland rate worse than Italy?

Taking into context of what they should be in the pecking order, Scotland are going backwards and they gave next to nothing of note to this years championship. In contrast, Italy are improving in spite of their poor results and they will give you a game, if not a scare every so often.

pickarooney

Scotland beat Italy away and had more respectable scorelines against Ireland and England. I don't think anyone expected better than fifth.

Losty Dublin

Valid points all round. I gave Ireland the A+ because on the balance of things, there was such a radical turnaround in form by Ireland plus it was a team which played an all round game which was closer to it's full potential than England were as a whole. This was particularly noticeable in how the backs weren't as able to take try scoring chances and how their scrummage wasn't as dominant as the could be. Granted, I could look at this all again today and give both teams a different grade but it wouldn't be too far off the mark in either case.

Swiwi. wrote: »

Nice work LD.

Starting with England, I reckon you're a bit harsh with a B+, they were close to a GS. I'd say Lancaster would be pretty satisfied. I think their work-ons are obvious: after Scotland they must have botched the most try-scoring opportunities, they still lack the killer instinct/ability in the backs that NZ for example don't. Despite the feelings about him on this forum, Farrell is a pretty decent flyhalf, and if I was Lancaster I would stick with him. I think they need to sort out 12 (36 has disappointed me overall), but Tualagi/Burrell or Burrell/Tualagi might work, and I'm still not convinced about their wings.

Otherwise, their discipline (esp that man Hartley) cost them valuable points difference v Wales, and their scrum minus Cole & esp Corbisiero is solid but not destructive. Their bench could have more impact.

Now onto Ireland:

• Set-piece was excellent, a huge congrats to the forwards, and to the inspired selection of Plumtree, honed in SA forward play
• Bench was excellent for impact. Moore didn't come on (as in improve) as much as I'd hoped
• Excellent discipline, generally robust defence, stuck to gameplans

Work-ons:

• Missed a SOB-type presence. Easily fixed by medical care...
• Kicking in general play was a bit ropey at times, attack was sharp but could be sharper. Still think a player who can make something out of nothing would be a useful addition.
• I think Schmidt got his bench wrong on more than 1 occasion. I still don't think Murphy & Madigan was the right choice yesterday, and I'm not convinced Henderson is test ready yet.

I don't think you can give Ireland an A+, that implies perfection, with nothing left to do...

Trusty Right Boot

Which Bergamasco is one of Italy's best players? Part 3 Needs to be printed off scrunched up and used as tinder! Fairly lazily written summary's if i'm been totally honest. Fair play for taking the time to do them but Ireland A+?? We were a penalty away from finishing third at the end of the french game. I'm delighted as any fan but take off the green tinted specs off.

corny

BoarHunter wrote: »

This is due to the fact that the french scrum was composed of Domingo and Mas . Mighty props of the old scrum who got pinged from the beginning of the match and got penalized for pushing low. Once Debaty and Slimani came on the problem was fixed.

Your logic is completely flawed and with respect your conclusions are nonsense.

The scrum is proving to be more decisive under the new rules not less. Also, traditionally the scrum was never about winning a massive hit and chasing the opposition backwards. The dawn of professionalism and massive props brought that about and it got to a stage where it was a complete shambles. Watch any game from the 70's or 80's and you'll see a square and stable scrum, ball comes in and push. Not smash, blow your opponents out of it on engagement.

On the game, its logical to assume that as far bigger men Debaty and Slimani would prosper under the old rules where their massive size on engagement would be an advantage. Conversely the new rules should suit more technically adept props (Mas and Domingo). Domingo was pinged for turning in the hooker more than once and his captain was warned. If he chooses to moan, blame the rules and continue to infringe thats his problem not the rules.

Its a cop out to blame the rules. The fact is the French set piece as a whole has been shocking over the tournament. There's been no changes to the line out yet France have struggled just as much in that department. Poor coaching/poor application V change in rules? It surely has to be the former.

Losty Dublin

Trusty Right Boot wrote: »

Which Bergamasco is one of Italy's best players? Part 3 Needs to be printed off scrunched up and used as tinder! Fairly lazily written summary's if i'm been totally honest. .

I trust that you will be able to expand on your rather bare critique and give us your side of the coin

sydthebeat

Trusty Right Boot wrote: »

We were a penalty away from finishing third at the end of the french game. I'm delighted as any fan but take off the green tinted specs off.

We were also 4 points off a grand slam.
Perspective works both ways.

Sangre

BoarHunter wrote: »

This is due to the fact that the french scrum was composed of Domingo and Mas . Mighty props of the old scrum who got pinged from the beginning of the match and got penalized for pushing low. Once Debaty and Slimani came on the problem was fixed.

There were several scrums won against the head over the course of the 6N; it is now becoming a real contest. If anything, the scrum is more important.

You also seem to be forgetting that there were still quite a few penalties and YCs handed out at scrum time in the championship.

I think its frankly silly to say the scrum is disappearing.

Trusty Right Boot

Well you gave Ireland a A+ for a tournament that in the end we were lucky to win, some could even argue with England were the better team over the tournament.

I personally believe that there is still question marks over Dave Kearney going forward. He has been dependble but hardly going to strike fear into opposition. Johny Sextons kicking was patchy throughout the tournament and could have been very costly. I reckon we have to find not only a replacement for O Driscoll but surely Darcy also is not going to last into a world cup. I am happy enough with the progress of Moore but have seen nothing yet to convince he is capable of taking over from Ross on a permanent basis yet. To be fair the inexperienced front row replacements should of cost us a penalty at the end of the game. Things are most certainly looking good for Ireland and JS is the right man in charge but we have a lot of developing to do still if this Irish team is to compete in a World Cup.

The stuff you wrote about Italy and Scotland was waffle to be fair, i'm not even sure if Mirco Bergamasco even played in this years 6 Nations never mind making there three best players. Both there wingers were impressive, Luke Mclean at fullback had a decent six nations, it seems like you named the 3 players you have heard of. Calling scotland Gutless is a fairly ridiculous, they may be poor but gutless they are not.

accidentprone1

Trusty Right Boot wrote: »

Which Bergamasco is one of Italy's best players? Part 3 Needs to be printed off scrunched up and used as tinder! Fairly lazily written summary's if i'm been totally honest. Fair play for taking the time to do them but Ireland A+?? We were a penalty away from finishing third at the end of the french game. I'm delighted as any fan but take off the green tinted specs off.

Looking forward to your analysis. I'm sure your "summary's" will be created off a mature base of solid research and hard-work ethos.

OP has made a great contribution to the forum by starting a thread with his own analysis of the six teams. It's different, and brings a breath of fresh air in place of the super-threads. You can disagree with his opinion all you like, but calling his post lazy is just plain wrong.