Order for report?

McNulty737

Hello,

I would appreciate if anyone in the know could explain to me what 'order for report stage' for a proposed bill means in Ireland. The oireachtas website lists what stages various bills are at in relation to becoming enacted in law, but I couldn't find any information about what the various stages mean.

Just curious as to how long a bill at 'order for report' stage might take to become law.

Thanks!

Pro Hoc Vice

http://www.oireachtas.ie/ViewDoc.asp?fn=/documents/FAQ/document1.htm&CatID=106&m=y#Bill

How is a Bill passed and how long does it take?
There are five stages in considering a Bill - First (Initiation) Stage, Second (Debate) Stage, Third (Committee) Stage, Fourth (Report) Stage and Fifth (Final) Stage. For more details on the different stages of a Bill go to our Information Leaflets here. There is no time limit on how long a Bill can take to pass through the Houses

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/leaflet/leg.htm

There are five stages in considering a Bill. The second and third stages are considered the most important as they offer the fullest opportunities to Members to discuss and amend the contents of the Bill. The Second stage of a Bill consists of a general debate on the principles of the Bill and Members may refer not only to what is in the Bill but to what could relevantly be put into the Bill. At Third (Committee ) Stage, a Bill is examined section by section and it is open to each House to modify the Bill by way of amendment. However, only a Minister or Minister of State can propose an amendment in either House which could have the effect of imposing or increasing a money charge upon the people or State funds. The Third Stage of most Dáil Bills is now dealt with by a range of Select Committees, each of which corresponds to a relevant Government Department. Ministers and Ministers of State may attend and be heard in Seanad Éireann where Government amendments to Bills are proposed from the Chair. On the Fourth (Report) Stage further amendments, which arise out of the Third Stage, can be made to the Bill and on the Fifth Stage the debate is confined to the contents of the Bill.

Where a Bill passes through all Stages in one House, it is automatically set down for Second Stage in the other House. Once a Bill has been passed by both Houses, the Taoiseach presents a vellum copy of the Bill, prepared in the Office of the Houses of the Oireachtas to the President for signature and promulgation as a law. The signed text is then enrolled for record in the Office of the Registrar of the Supreme Court.


There is no set time limit and in reality each stage takes what ever time it takes.

McNulty737

Thanks....the wheels of bureaucracy are agonisingly slow and incompetent in this country it seems

Pro Hoc Vice

McNulty737 wrote: »

Thanks....the wheels of bureaucracy are agonisingly slow and incompetent in this country it seems

I like many wished they went even slower sometimes, the night of the bank guarantee being a very good example where a bit of a slow down would have been great.

But if a bill has good backers, who can get it skilfully through the system it can become an act in relative quick time. But like everything, more important things get done quicker. If you are unhappy with any bills passage contact your local TD's and ask why this is not a priority.

McNulty737

The bill I'm talking about is the spent convictions bill. I have a 10 year old conviction for careless driving which of course still shows up on my record. Luckily it hasn't affected my career opportunities up to this point however it is now becoming an issue as i'm looking for jobs in China. The ability to produce a clean police report is essential.

I've been waiting for the last 3 years for the bill to be enacted. It seems like the debate surrounding the bill is how many convictions should be considered spent, or if convictions carrying x amount of prison time should be considered etc.

You say you would rather things progressed slower at times, but in this instance my question is could they not hurry up and get it enacted in a very basic form ie. minor convictions which did not carry prison sentences and fines etc. could be considered 'spent' now, and more serious or complicated convictions dealt with or included at a later date by way of amendments to the legislation?

Forgive me if I'm being naive as I am quite legally illiterate, but I can tell you that waiting 3 years and counting for a piece of legislation that has a profound effect on your career prospects is agonising and very frustrating. Especially legislation which is common throughout other European countries. The UK has had a spent convictions law for the past 40 years, 40 years = alot of shattered career prospects.

Pro Hoc Vice

McNulty737 wrote: »

The bill I'm talking about is the spent convictions bill. I have a 10 year old conviction for careless driving which of course still shows up on my record. Luckily it hasn't affected my career opportunities up to this point however it is now becoming an issue as i'm looking for jobs in China. The ability to produce a clean police report is essential.

I've been waiting for the last 3 years for the bill to be enacted. It seems like the debate surrounding the bill is how many convictions should be considered spent, or if convictions carrying x amount of prison time should be considered etc.

You say you would rather things progressed slower at times, but in this instance my question is could they not hurry up and get it enacted in a very basic form ie. minor convictions which did not carry prison sentences and fines etc. could be considered 'spent' now, and more serious or complicated convictions dealt with or included at a later date by way of amendments to the legislation?

Forgive me if I'm being naive as I am quite legally illiterate, but I can tell you that waiting 3 years and counting for a piece of legislation that has a profound effect on your career prospects is agonising and very frustrating. Especially legislation which is common throughout other European countries. The UK has had a spent convictions law for the past 40 years, 40 years = alot of shattered career prospects.

My own view is this piece of legislation is on the back burner, maybe someone closer to the power may be able to give comfort, but all anyone at the moment can say its not an act till signed. The Dail is littered with many good bills that never became law.

McNulty737

Well again like I say im pretty clueless on the subject....however surely the following link to quotes from Alan Shatter just a month ago are grounds for optimism?

http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2014-02-05a.382


Or just insincere political waffling?

Pro Hoc Vice

McNulty737 wrote: »

Well again like I say im pretty clueless on the subject....however surely the following link to quotes from Alan Shatter just a month ago are grounds for optimism?

http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2014-02-05a.382


Or just insincere political waffling?

I would take it as a positive statement. BTW you do know that a careless driving conviction in many cases does not need to be disclosed. Many forms that ask a question about convictions exclude road traffic act.

McNulty737

Yeah but the Chinese request a police record of no convictions. As far as im aware a basic garda certificate will come back blank once the bill is enacted, whereas now the careless driving conviction does show I can assure you

Pro Hoc Vice

McNulty737 wrote: »

Yeah but the Chinese request a police record of no convictions. As far as im aware a basic garda certificate will come back blank once the bill is enacted, whereas now the careless driving conviction does show I can assure you

Spent convictions bill will not help in relation to any other countries request for information.

8.—A person who has a conviction which is, in accordance with this Act, regarded as a spent conviction, shall not be entitled to regard any question put to him or her seeking information in relation to his or her previous convictions as not applying to the spent convic- tion where—
(a) he or she is in a state, other than the State, and the infor- mation is sought pursuant to the exercise of the juris- diction of the law of that state, or
(b) he or she is within the State but the information sought relates to a matter being dealt with pursuant to the law of a state other than the State.

McNulty737

I think it will suffice, I have to produce a police certificate to a private Chinese company stating no convictions. They won't be contacting the guards on my behalf looking for information.

Pro Hoc Vice

McNulty737 wrote: »

I think it will suffice, I have to produce a police certificate to a private Chinese company stating no convictions. They won't be contacting the guards on my behalf looking for information.

As its a private company and not a state exercising the law of that other state then you should be ok.

McNulty737

Hope so! Thanks for the input, appreciate it.