So did Celtic really need Rangers after all?

NIMAN

Been reading that Celtic's attendances are way down this season, and with the title a foregone conclusion practically every season now, is it fair to say that Celtic and Rangers do need each other?

Anyone know their official average attendance this season?

Jelle1880

I'm fairly certain that Celtic don't need Rangers if it means they will win the title every single year.

NIMAN

OK thats true, but with them they might have had a 50/50 chance anyway.

Without them, their fans are obviously getting bored to attending games, if the empty terraces are anything to go by.

Lawrence1895

It's a bit boring without them alright...not more, not less

Dante

Hopefully they'll die off too.

NIMAN

They were one of those teams who were meant to have unbelievable fans, yet they seem to have abandoned them.

Lennonist

NIMAN wrote: »

They were one of those teams who were meant to have unbelievable fans, yet they seem to have abandoned them.

They haven't abandoned them, Celtic still have 46000 season ticket holders even if they don't all turn up for every domestic game. Celtic have had less than full capacity attendances before, in the 90's in the 80's when Rangers were in the SPL. The crowds are down for various reasons. Lack of competition is one of them. If Aberdeen or Dundee United continue improving they might represent more of a challenge in years to come.

To answer your op question if Rangers were still around and in the SPL domestic attendances probably would be a bit bigger especially for Celtic v Rangers games, but Celtic don't need Rangers or their tribute act to flourish. Celtic controls it's own destiny.

NIMAN

Would you say Celtic are flourishing?

I notice that the BBC list most of the home attendances this season as between 44 - 46,000, but from a cousin who is a season ticket holder, I am told they are getting nowhere near this. Why give season ticket holders rather than actually those that turn up at games?

I do honestly think that Celtic do need Rangers, or the SPL needs both of them in the same league, whatever way you want to look at it. If Celtic were winning the league by 25pts every season then the crowds would gradually fall off. That is guaranteed.

Lennonist

NIMAN wrote: »

Would you say Celtic are flourishing?

I notice that the BBC list most of the home attendances this season as between 44 - 46,000, but from a cousin who is a season ticket holder, I am told they are getting nowhere near this. Why give season ticket holders rather than actually those that turn up at games?

I do honestly think that Celtic do need Rangers, or the SPL needs both of them in the same league, whatever way you want to look at it. If Celtic were winning the league by 25pts every season then the crowds would gradually fall off. That is guaranteed.

No you are wrong. If Celtic win the league by 25 points or more every season from now on they would still maintain around 46000 season ticket holders, provided they continue to qualify for the champions League and do reasonably well in it. Playing in Europe after Christmas in the CL or in the Europa League would help a lot to keep fans interest levels up.

Fr Tod Umptious

From a competitive point of view they certainly need them.
It was summed up here a few months ago on the Celtic thread.

When Rangers were in the league every league game was important, because if you could not afford to drop points because it gave the other team a chance to extend or close a gap.

But now Celtic can coast through every game, go down by a few goals and come back to win, afford to loose a few, and still win the league handy.

This has an adverse effect on them when it comes to the tougher competition in Europe.

The longer Celtic dominate Scotland the poorer they will become in Europe.

CSF

Yeah Celtic are going to be really upset about winning the title every year. That makes loads of sense.

bobbysands81

NIMAN wrote: »

Would you say Celtic are flourishing?

I notice that the BBC list most of the home attendances this season as between 44 - 46,000, but from a cousin who is a season ticket holder, I am told they are getting nowhere near this. Why give season ticket holders rather than actually those that turn up at games?

I do honestly think that Celtic do need Rangers, or the SPL needs both of them in the same league, whatever way you want to look at it. If Celtic were winning the league by 25pts every season then the crowds would gradually fall off. That is guaranteed.

I'd say those figures are accurate enough for our attendances.

Attendances are down, no doubting that, but we're also making record profit during a massive recession, have no debt, and are regularly doing well in Europe in a league that is a glorified LoI standard.

Basically we're doing well in a league that we've long outgrown, our biggest rivals are dead and our income is increasing. Our average attendance is still better than most EPL teams and given the dross we're playing against that's remarkable.

Financially we are flourishing but the SPFL is a dead duck and will remain that way. Our future lies outside the SPFL... but God knows where.

To answer your question... To date it's clear to me that we don't miss the death of our closest rivals but, like before, it's essential that we get out of Scotland.

Hank Scorpio

It's bad for the league, was poor enough anyway but at least there was some kind of fight between the two

NIMAN

I think you have hit the nail on the head there Bobby.

I think some sort of Euro League will have to happen eventually, as many of the leagues around Europe are lacking in competition outside of the top few teams.

How ans when this happens is another question though.

Despite my original question sounding like a dig, I have to say that getting 45000 to watch muck opponents is admirable. And it makes you think what the club could achieve if they were playing down South or against bigger teams every week.

dmc17

CSF wrote: »

Yeah Celtic are going to be really upset about winning the title every year. That makes loads of sense.

That's not the issue at all. The issue is the lack of competition for them. A bit of healthy competition is a great incentive to continuously improve.

CSF

dmc17 wrote: »

That's not the issue at all. The issue is the lack of competition for them. A bit of healthy competition is a great incentive to continuously improve.

I sincerely doubt Celtic want serious competition in the SPL. Champions League group stages is now their new measure to judge themselves upon. If anything they'll be disappointed that they aren't going to win a domestic cup this year.

The_Kew_Tour

bobbysands81 wrote: »

To answer your question... To date it's clear to me that we don't miss the death of our closest rivals but, like before, it's essential that we get out of Scotland.

to where?

Moneymaker

He has a point.

Monopolizing a league which is already a graveyard is not a good thing.

What reason do any players have to come to Celtic?

No chance of European progression, no big derby games to get players/fans/management motivated.

It's like WWE without WCW to push them. It isn't quite as strong as it once was.

super_furry

What's the point of Batman without the Joker?

Watch a Celtic game this season. Half the stadium is empty.

Celtic do need Rangers as they need competition in the league

A Dub in Glasgo

rarnes1 wrote: »

Celtic do need Rangers as they need competition in the league

It is competition that is needed not Rangers or whatever they call themselves nowadays

titan18

SPL isn't worth much anyway, but Rangers and Celtic brought a decent amount of TV money in, which is now not available to Celtic.

Coillte_Bhoy

CSF wrote: »

I sincerely doubt Celtic want serious competition in the SPL. Champions League group stages is now their new measure to judge themselves upon. If anything they'll be disappointed that they aren't going to win a domestic cup this year.

of course we wan competition, what an odd thing to say. Agreed, poor cup performances have been a big let down

Coillte_Bhoy

rarnes1 wrote: »

Watch a Celtic game this season. Half the stadium is empty.

Celtic do need Rangers as they need competition in the league

Rangers are dead

bobbysands81

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Rangers are dead

Correct.

LiamoSail

titan18 wrote: »

SPL isn't worth much anyway, but Rangers and Celtic brought a decent amount of TV money in, which is now not available to Celtic.

The TV money isn't much with or without Rangers. In Rangers last season in the SPL, the league winners only got something like £1.5m in total. Given Celtic turnover between £50m and £70m, depending on the CL, domestic TV money is pittance in comparison

LiamoSail

Moneymaker wrote: »

What reason do any players have to come to Celtic?

No chance of European progression, no big derby games to get players/fans/management motivated.

Look at the likes of Hooper, Ki, Wanyama etc. A move to Celtic gives them the opportunity to win medals, the play in the Champions League, and on front of between 40 & 60k every second week. More importantly for them however, its a shop window for the EPL. I would think for a player with ambitions to play in the EPL, Celtic is a great stepping stone

Moneymaker

LiamoSail wrote: »

Look at the likes of Hooper, Ki, Wanyama etc. A move to Celtic gives them the opportunity to win medals, the play in the Champions League, and on front of between 40 & 60k every second week. More importantly for them however, its a shop window for the EPL. I would think for a player with ambitions to play in the EPL, Celtic is a great stepping stone

Exactly. A stepping stone. That's exactly the problem. People should be coming to Celtic to compete at a European level, but they aren't. And that problem will get worse the longer they don't have any competition.