In a really bad way at work, any advice?

LegacyUser

I have been at my current job just over 5 years now, and although I dont care half as much as I used to, Im still a skilled worker when I need to be. I never got on with the boss from day 1, we just have completely different personalities and almost every meeting or interaction ends in a disagreement which he would no doubt put down to me being difficult but I would call it being assertive. I used to just take his aggressive bullying attitude meekly at the start but not any more. I was off sick for a few days with a cold recently and when I got back he basically was a bit snotty to me for not ringing in soon enough (I was very poorly and busy trying to ring the doctor). I lost it and told him in no uncertain terms he should stop worrying about stupid things like that and concentrate on real problems like other staff being lazy etc. He looked really shocked and basically said this chat is over and has blanked me since.

Thing is, now we just ignore each other and I think he is spreading rumours about me being unreliable and difficult etc which is bang out of order, hes the one who should be sacked for being a bully and unreasonable. Now im in a tricky situation because I have 2 very large debts that I need to keep on top of yet the way its going I will probably be sacked by a spiteful boss just for standing up for myself. I dont even care anymore if my work is of high quality or not, thats what the situation has led me to. any thoughts?

stuckinworkrut

stuckinworkrut wrote: »

I lost it and told him in no uncertain terms he should stop worrying about stupid things like that and concentrate on real problems like other staff being lazy etc.

Are you serious? You sound as bad as him if not well worse. Companies generally have a policy where you must call in by a certain time so he'd be well within rights to bring it up. Yelling about other staff is none of your business and I'm not surprised if you have a troublemaker rep.
I would advise sitting down with him and calmly and professionally clearing the air, and stop miscontruing inappropriate outbursts to reasonable conversations as standing up for yourself.

Merkin

In all honesty it sounds like your attitude stinks. As pointed out above, you seem to be confusing assertiveness with downright rudeness.

Advice? Wind your neck in.

MagicMarker

"Busy trying to ring the doctor"....

Seriously now, read that over a few times and tell me it's an excuse for not ringing in sick in a timely manner. It sounds like your boss had a legitimate issue to raise with you, and you responded with petulance.

You can continue as you are, miserable and possibly without a job soon enough. Or you can man up, have a private meeting with your boss and try to clear the air between you, if you do that you may have a better attitude towards your work going forward.

thefeatheredcat

It is quite normal for a boss to require notice even on the morning of shift starting asap that you're out sick. That is your priority and obligation to inform them that you're ill. And it is quite normal that on returning to work they would discuss the matter with you. In the past I've had return to work meetings after being sick that lasted about a half hour, with general and specific details of the illness being noted as per sick certs I had to produce, with records of what time and when from day 1 when I made contacted to when my manager had contacted as per normal guidelines of the company.

stuckinworkrut wrote: »

I lost it

I have the impression that you felt picked on that you "lost it" i.e. got angry as that is what I would associate with having "lost it". Losing your cool is NOT being assertive, assertiveness involves keeping your emotions in check when dealing with a difficult situation, not exploding at another person with or without reason. How you reacted was bang out of order and very unprofessional, if you reacted like that to a parent, sibling, partner or stranger on the street you'd be in the wrong too.

You should really be apologising for your outburst and having a proper meeting with your boss. You have a track history of making every discussion at every meeting an unpleasant experience for you both - and probably everyone else too - perhaps you might want to realise the problem here might not necessarily be your boss, but actually you? If you have felt bullied by your boss have you reported this formally? If not, why not? How do you know he has spread rumours about you being unreliable and difficult? Have you proof of that? Perhaps other employees / customers / staff overheard or witnessed your outburst and are talking about it?

stuckinworkrut wrote: »

although I dont care half as much as I used to, Im still a skilled worker when I need to be.

stuckinworkrut wrote: »

I dont even care anymore if my work is of high quality or not

If you get fired, it's not going to be because your boss is spiteful and vindictive; it's not going to be because of you having been sick and not having given proper notice; it most likely will be because of your attitude and because you are already on the road to losing your job through not caring about your job, that you'll make mistakes and turn out to be lot less skilled at your job than you think you are, because you don't give a crap about the quality. Even if the attitude and difficulties between your boss and you can be overlooked but have been seen as otherwise a skilled worker enough to stay in the job, they probably will still keep you, but you're letting yourself down and giving them a real reason to fire you in not giving a hoot about the quality of the work.

If you can't find the enthusiasm for the job, or the quality of the work, or are always going to feel like the boss is out to get you (whether valid or not), then perhaps you should start looking for another job? There is no point staying a job you don't like or feeling miserable at that job, when you can instead make a change and find something better for yourself.

iusedtoknow

I manage a team, and if someone spoke to me like that, i'd be talking to HR about it. To be honest, you sound lime you don't really care either.
Seriously "busy ringing the doctor". It takes 30 seconds to text the boss and say that you're sick and won't be in. That is it all most expect.

You seem to have copped an attitude and somehow made his his fault. It is yours. You are the one that speaks down to him, you are the one that is not treating him with respect. Granted it is not the best for him to be blanking you, but in all honesty, i wouldn't be surprised if you get your p45/p60 before long

LegacyUser

Honestly, you just sound like you are your own worst enemy, and are making your work environment horrible for yourself and those around you.

Perhaps it's hard to get the full circumstances across in a short post, but you sound like you are constantly being very aggressive and negative, and defensive about any of your own failings (not bothering to contact your boss on time if you are sick, and - worse - being lazy in work).

I think you really need to reign in your behaviour, and examine what you can do about your anger/resentment. Being honest OP, if sounds like your boss is at the end of his/her tether with you - and is not 'spreading rumours' about you, but is just being honest about your poor behaviour.

Your comments about other staff are so unprofessional that it's ridiculous. You aren't a kid anymore - crying 'but he/she did it too' doesn't cut it. Especially as you admit to bring lazy yourself at the beginning of your post! I can only assume by you 'losing it' that you shouted in public, and didn't stop at making that one comment. If you worked for me, I'd be on to HR so fast - your boss doesn't have to take that abuse from you.

You have a terrible attitude OP, and as you need this job, you need to identify your issues and get to work quickly on fixing them, before your attitude screws up your next job as well as this one.

Stavro Mueller

stuckinworkrut wrote: »

..I never got on with the boss from day 1, we just have completely different personalities and almost every meeting or interaction ends in a disagreement which he would no doubt put down to me being difficult but I would call it being assertive. I used to just take his aggressive bullying attitude meekly at the start but not any more.

Out of curiosity have you ever worked anywhere else? Because to me this looks like you're having difficulties with boundaries. There's nothing wrong with you not liking him as a person but you should be professional enough not to let those feelings cloud your judgement. I'm puzzled as to why you're arguing with him so often. I assume most of your conversations are related to work and the business he is in charge of. Do you resent him giving you instructions?

I was off sick for a few days with a cold recently and when I got back he basically was a bit snotty to me for not ringing in soon enough (I was very poorly and busy trying to ring the doctor).

I'm with the others on this - the excuse for this is about as wishy washy as it comes. You should've apologised here and clarified what the company's policy on taking sick days was.

I lost it and told him in no uncertain terms he should stop worrying about stupid things like that and concentrate on real problems like other staff being lazy etc. He looked really shocked and basically said this chat is over and has blanked me since.

Now this is where I start wondering if you've got ideas above your station and are power tripping. You do realise you just told your boss how to do his job in an aggressive fashion and effectively undermined him?

Thing is, now we just ignore each other and I think he is spreading rumours about me being unreliable and difficult etc which is bang out of order, hes the one who should be sacked for being a bully and unreasonable.

Kettle, pot, black. From what I'm reading here, you sound like you're every bit as bad as your boss. You sound like a bit of a nightmare to work with to be honest. Are you sure your being "assertive" isn't just you picking fights with your boss because you resent him? I bet he dreads those meetings - all he wants to do is get work done and it descends into disagreements. Possibly over petty stupid things that wouldn't be an issue if you had a functioning working relationship

Now im in a tricky situation because I have 2 very large debts that I need to keep on top of yet the way its going I will probably be sacked by a spiteful boss just for standing up for myself. I dont even care anymore if my work is of high quality or not, thats what the situation has led me to. any thoughts?

If I was your boss I'd be rubbing my hands with glee. What planet do you live on that you think it's OK to treat your boss the way you have been treating him? I'm not saying he's an angel but you are a bigger fool to have turned the situation into the dysfunctional relationship it appears to be. I suggest you start jobhunting.

What you could try is to meet with your boss, apologise for your behaviour and try to smooth things over. Can't see you doing that though...

Little Acorn

stuckinworkrut wrote: »

any thoughts?

Yes. My thoughts are that I don't think you should be working there. I know you have debts but you just don't seem to give a fcuk about the job anymore or be putting a decent effort into even doing the job you're getting paid for.

Saying things like " don't care half as much as I used to",
"still a skilled worker when I need to be"[is that not always?],
and " I don't even care anymore if my work is of high quality or not" make it seem like it could be this attitude that gets you fired and not just the delay in ringing in sick.

I do feel bad for you if your boss really is an 'aggressive bully' but you are not going about the best way of dealing with it if this is the case. Is there a formal way to resolve these issues, because I don't think getting into regular arguments with your boss is going to solve anything and resolving issues professionally would be better than losing your job. [if it is possible to do so]

RossFixxxed

There is a lot to be said for asking to meet in private, sitting down and talking it out. Be humble and apologetic and reasonable. Chat it out with the guy one on one and try to clear the air. We all make a balls of things from time to time, and it takes a bit of effort to set things back on track.

It's 10 minutes of your day. It's a manager, not a close friend or someone you love, so just say our piece in a reasonable way and get on with it. You're being paid for it anyway. Maybe look for another job, but leave there on good terms. You would be surprised where managers from years ago will turn up down the road! (Unpleasantly so for me in the past!)

You have big debts, they are paying you to be there, and that pays your debts. Don't lose sight of that. In a year's time you won't remember all this. If you are out of work and the debt starts piling up your perspective will change rapidly. Just eat some crow, make amends and then see what you want to do going forward from a better place than trying to explain to a potential future employer that you got fired for 'losing it' and 'not being bothered about the quality of work'.

ManOfMystery

I'm not going to repeat what the posters above have said about your position here, as I totally agree with them.

I will add however that you seem to have a very blasé attitude towards your position here, and by effect the possibility of being sacked. It's one thing being made redundant and having that on your CV, but being sacked is a totally different matter; have you any idea how offputting is to future employers when they interview someone and find they've been sacked before over their behaviour? And how much you are risking your future career progression? As someone in a fairly precarious position with a lot of debt, you should really be making big efforts to strengthen your position but all you seem to want to do is sabotage it.

Good luck with getting any references from your current job too if you decide not to patch things up with your boss.

You need to man up and stop behaving like a petulant child. Your boss is your boss; he doesn't have to be your best friend and you don't have act like you love each other, he is there to manage you and any respect (from both sides) is earned and not freely given. At the moment, you certainly don't sound like you're putting any effort into your job or attitude towards him, so why should he respect you? And please, don't go down the route of saying "well he started it .................!". You're the one in the risky position here - swallow your pride, show show some humility and perhaps your career and finances have a chance of surviving this.

LegacyUser

Hi all OP here, thanks for your replies, some of them brutally honest but then I did ask for that. Regarding the outburst, I probably shouldnt have done that in retrospect its just the boss seems to go down the official route with me a lot more than others in the office in that I get asked for certs and proof almost the moment I walk in the door whereas his right hand man never does! And i have stopped caring about the work but thats normal in a lot of jobs surely-doing the same thing month after month does breed discontent. I take the point about it showing but I honestly didnt see the problem in showing a few signs of not caring, nobody can be full of beans every day...

iusedtoknow

stuckinworkrut wrote: »

Hi all OP here, thanks for your replies, some of them brutally honest but then I did ask for that. Regarding the outburst, I probably shouldnt have done that in retrospect its just the boss seems to go down the official route with me a lot more than others in the office in that I get asked for certs and proof almost the moment I walk in the door whereas his right hand man never does! And i have stopped caring about the work but thats normal in a lot of jobs surely-doing the same thing month after month does breed discontent. I take the point about it showing but I honestly didnt see the problem in showing a few signs of not caring, nobody can be full of beans every day...

Yeah, you can't be full of beans every day, but you also have to fake it sometimes. A lot of people show up for work day in day out on factory lines for 20 or 30 years and love it, as much for the fact they get a paycheck and also for who they work with and satisfied for doing a good solid honest days work.

If I was your manager, i'd be going down the official route with you as well, so as if/when anything HR related came up, he can say he does everything by the book.
I have one guy that works for me, and I go down the official route on EVERYTHING , as in his past roles, he has complained to HR over things that his manager's did or didn't do. In short, he was trouble and so to beat him at his own game, i do everything by the book, even though it goes against my grain. In all honesty, if I hadn't inherited this team - i would not have hired him.

I think you either need to check your attitude, admit he is the boss not you, play by his rules.....or move to another job.

Stavro Mueller

stuckinworkrut wrote: »

Regarding the outburst, I probably shouldn't have done that in retrospect

I hope your use of probably is just a decoration...there's no probably in what happened here. You were completely and utterly in the wrong to have spoken to your boss like that.

Its just the boss seems to go down the official route with me a lot more than others in the office in that I get asked for certs and proof almost the moment I walk in the door whereas his right hand man never does!

Seeing as your relationship with him is so bad, what do you expect?? You treat him with contempt so he's not going to want to give you leeway. Would you if the roles were reversed? Honestly? He probably doesn't trust you very much either which adds to it.

What he does or doesn't do with other staff isn't your business. It's his job to manage, not yours. To repeat that great phrase from further up the page "Wind your neck in"

I have stopped caring about the work but that's normal in a lot of jobs surely-doing the same thing month after month does breed discontent. I take the point about it showing but I honestly didnt see the problem in showing a few signs of not caring, nobody can be full of beans every day...

If someone with an attitude like yours was on my staff I'd love to issue you with a P45 and send you on your way. There is little worse than an employee who doesn't care about their work. They can be a liability in some cases.

Most people take a certain amount of pride in their work. That's not the same thing as them loving their jobs, by the way. I think most people go through phases where they're fed up of their job, bored with their work, would rather be elsewhere. Mostly though, they make the best of things and are professional enough to do a good job. Do you not gain any satisfaction at all from your job? Do you not even have colleagues you get on well with or have a laugh with?

If the job and your boss are making you so miserable, why have you not left? I'd love to know who you'll be turning to for a reference...

LegacyUser

cymbaline wrote: »

If someone with an attitude like yours was on my staff I'd love to issue you with a P45 and send you on your way. There is little worse than an employee who doesn't care about their work. They can be a liability in some cases.

Most people take a certain amount of pride in their work. That's not the same thing as them loving their jobs, by the way. I think most people go through phases where they're fed up of their job, bored with their work, would rather be elsewhere. Mostly though, they make the best of things and are professional enough to do a good job. /QUOTE]

Well, there is a lot of people who feel the same way in the office, there is a general air of mistrust against the management and when you see supervisors trying to curry favour with the director to get family members on board (my current boss has managed to get a cousin and brother working in the company despite their lack of qualifications which is really out of order) all of which leads to low morale and a general lack of caring from several people. Not all granted, but given the above, coupled with me personally being hounded for sick certs whilst others are given a few days, has led to me not caring at all. Ill do enough but why should I stick out when people are promoted etc based on popularity and not skill.

I recently had an extension built at home so it will be quite some time before I will have that debt cut down, sadly it seems to be put up with this crap until then.

iusedtoknow

stuckinworkrut wrote: »

Well, there is a lot of people who feel the same way in the office, there is a general air of mistrust against the management and when you see supervisors trying to curry favour with the director to get family members on board (my current boss has managed to get a cousin and brother working in the company despite their lack of qualifications which is really out of order) all of which leads to low morale and a general lack of caring from several people. Not all granted, but given the above, coupled with me personally being hounded for sick certs whilst others are given a few days, has led to me not caring at all. Ill do enough but why should I stick out when people are promoted etc based on popularity and not skill.

I recently had an extension built at home so it will be quite some time before I will have that debt cut down, sadly it seems to be put up with this crap until then.

So it is all about other people - not you. You don't seem to take any responsibility for your own attitude but go off the "influence" of others.

So what if there are people "lacking in qualifications". I have an arts degree and now am a manager of a global IT service delivery team 10 years after graduating college.
This has nothing to do with YOUR job. How do you know they aren't skilled? Most jobs (except for say law, medicine, computer programing) you can be trained into. If the managers see a willingness to learn and a good attitude - it goes far in business/work. You should maybe try it sometime.

So what if your manager is hounding you for sick certs. If that is policy, obey it. It is none of your business how your manager treats other people. Anyway, how do you know he doesn't hound them other ways? Reminder emails, quick sms?

There are two ways to go about your future at this job. Being Accountable Vs being in the Victim loop. The basic idea is here

It sounds like you're in the victim loop. You need to get out it

Stavro Mueller

You started this thread because you were concerned you might be fired. What has changed? Is your boss still blanking you?

For someone who hates their job so much, I can't understand why you're still working there. Have you gone job hunting at all over the past few years? If not, is there any particular reason why? Is it easier to just bitch and whine rather than take a genuinely proactive step and get a job elsewhere? I also feel you're sailing very close to the wind by continually pissing your boss off like this. You must have a very impressive skillset indeed if you've escaped any sort of caution or warning to date. I daresay he'd relish the chance to issue you with a P45 and send you on your way.

If you just looked at your job as a means to pay the bills and stopped thinking about the wrongs in the business you'd be better off. The only thing you should be concerned about here is that the business will keep going and pay your wages. Does this nepotism affect you personally? Or are is it just another negative thing you're seizing upon to continue stoking the fire of resentment that's burning in you?

sopretty

Have you been absent a lot?

retro:electro

If you were so "busy ringing the doctor" then surely you'd have no problem being "hounded for a sick cert" then would you??

LegacyUser

I think things have gone too far with your boss to ever recover much of a decent working relationship.

I think you should look for another job, if that's feasible. But you can't carry all this victimhood into a new job. You have to realise that your boss is, well, the boss! And while you don't gave to kiss ass, you can't continue objecting to everything, being difficult, not following procedures, and being abusive to him/her.

It doesn't matter that your boss has got connections he used to get people into the company, or how he treats others. That is stuff that is outside if the main problem: you are being difficult, and if doesn't sound like you are doing your job properly. Those two points are the fundamentals - the rest is just window dressing to your issues - and until you make the personal effort to resolve those issues, you are going to have the same problem in every job.

Teyla Emmagan

stuckinworkrut wrote: »

Well, there is a lot of people who feel the same way in the office, there is a general air of mistrust against the management and when you see supervisors trying to curry favour with the director to get family members on board (my current boss has managed to get a cousin and brother working in the company despite their lack of qualifications which is really out of order) all of which leads to low morale and a general lack of caring from several people. Not all granted, but given the above, coupled with me personally being hounded for sick certs whilst others are given a few days, has led to me not caring at all. Ill do enough but why should I stick out when people are promoted etc based on popularity and not skill.

I recently had an extension built at home so it will be quite some time before I will have that debt cut down, sadly it seems to be put up with this crap until then.

This is absolutely pathetic. Given your financial situation, and your attitude, you should be grateful to have that job. Particularly in the current economic climate. There are people out there who would give their eye teeth to be in your position right now.

You have been amazingly lucky so far by the sound of things. Who could blame your boss if he is dying to get rid of you? That is entirely your own fault. And how will you find a new job if you lose this one? You don't sound like the sort of employee people write fantastic references for.

It is none of your business how that place is run or who is hired to work in it. If you got that into your head you would be a lot happier. You need to completely readjust your attitude. If you go in next Monday with a whole new approach it will be better for you and for your boss and might lead to you holding onto your job. If you had any sense you would also be apologising and asking for a fresh start.

And of course your boss treats you differently. That is because you are a difficult employee! If you weren't such a pain in his backside you wouldn't have this problem.

Only you can change that, and you need to start trying before it is too late.