Col de Tourmalet vs Mt Leinster?

cdaly_

So, I was thinking, since I'll be in Southern France this summer that a spin up the Col de Tourmalet would be in order. Only thing is the gradient. How does it compare to the likes of Mt Leinster or Shea Elliot? I've gone over those with many stops to gasp for breath.

My route would be about 200km to get there so I could do 175k to overnight with Velopeloton and ride the col next morning or head direct to the col first.

But the crucial question is would I be able for it?...

victor201

Gradient not the problem its the distance approx 19km avearge 7% ish and the heat is a major factor too ,no climbs in ireland comparable really ,but if you do consistant milage here and lots of sportives its doable and with compact or triple set up

velopeloton

Not the same thing at all. If you put Drumgoff in this valley no one would notice it. There are plenty of biggers climbs here that you will never of heard of. Col du Tourmalet is 19km at 7.3% or 28km at 6% depending where you decide it starts. It's not the gradient that will do the damage it's the length and the weather. It will be either too hot or too cold or both. Plus the altitude is considerable. Your cardiovascular system will be approx 12%-15% less efficient on the last 4km of Tourmalet than on Drumgoff.

If you can ride the 175km to get here it will be no problem. Just ride your bike as much as possible before then and most importantly, be happy, cycling in the mountains is great craic.

endacl

A 'spin' up the Tourmalet?

Hardy man!

RO 06

I cycled it 2 years ago. The heat at 11am was tough. Stopped a couple of times on the way up.
It was manageable. Was glad to see the giant at the top. Mighty satisfying.
There was a quiet large chap and his 9-10 year old son cycling up it on mountain bikes.
You will make it up to the top.
Heading back this year to tackle it again on the Etape.

endacl

RO 06 wrote: »

I cycled it 2 years ago. The heat at 11am was tough. Stopped a couple of times on the way up.
It was manageable. Was glad to see the giant at the top. Mighty satisfying.
There was a quiet large chap and his 9-10 year old son cycling up it on mountain bikes.
You will make it up to the top.
Heading back this year to tackle it again on the Etape.

And the descent...?

letape

I cycled up it two years ago too (and the other well known climbs in the area). Having the right gearing is very important to keep momentum on the steepest sections.

It is an amazing part of the world to cycle and I can't wait to get back.

RO 06

endacl wrote: »

And the descent...?

That's the easy bit. Passing cars and motorhomes on the way down.
Might be a few horses sitting in the shelters over the road.

letape

RO 06 wrote: »

That's the easy bit. Passing cars and motorhomes on the way down.
Might be a few horses sitting in the shelters over the road.

Descending 20km in the cold and / or wet not so easy though!

RO 06

letape wrote: »

Descending 20km in the cold and / or wet not so easy though!

I know. Hoping it is gonna be sunny this year

ROK ON

I have been up it on two different occasions.

First time was May 2010. It snowed and was very very cold. I was not fit but made it all the way from St Marie de Campagne to La Mongie without stopping - couldn't it was too cold.

Next time I did it was on the Raid Pyrenean in July 2012.
The temperature was 38-41 degrees. I had heat stroke and a dodgy stomach. Couldn't eat. I had to stop every few km to stick my hear in the road side streams.
I stopped at a mans house halfway up to get respite from the heat and get some water.
The last four km I simply cannot remember but I know I was with peers. Despite the heat I was shivering at the summit as heat stroke kicked in. I almost froze on the descent and spent over an hour in the shower trying to warm up.

The gradient on the Tiurmalet is mostly steady. If you are on form then you can get a good tempo going.
Having done it at freezing and at 40 degrees I recommend the former for climbing.
It was sheer misery in the heat and ranks as one of my worst days on the bike. From Argeles the climb IMHO is ugly and compares poorly to the beauty of the other climbs in the "circle of death"

However despite that I would go if I were you.

If I was going back to the Pyrenees there are many climbs I would do for variety, toughness and beauty. The Tourmalet is not one of them.

Wishbone Ash

Hydration is another thing to consider. You'll get through 2x750ml bottles fairly quickly if it's warm and may have to rely on rock trickles/springs etc. for replenishment.

As has been said, the gradient is not an issue - it's the unrelenting distance. Consider a 28 cassette to ease things a bit.

Mercian Pro

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

As has been said, the gradient is not an issue - it's the unrelenting distance. Consider a 28 cassette to ease things a bit.

+1 on a 28 or even 30 cassette or, better still, a triple. It's tough, seems to go on forever but after a beer and chips at the top, you'll feel great.

ford2600

Mercian Pro wrote: »

+1 on a 28 or even 30 cassette or, better still, a triple. It's tough, seems to go on forever but after a beer and chips at the top, you'll feel great.

You don't need to tell @cdaly the value of a triple!

cdaly_

Right so. Seems like it might be doable. Best bet would be to overnight at Saint-Savin and tackle the col in the cool of early morning. Then it's a 200k descent back home to Dax!

ford2600 wrote: »

You don't need to tell @cdaly the value of a triple!

No worries about gearing, I run a 30x32 as granny gear though it might be worth adding a 28 (next sprocket to the 32 is a 25).

Interesting one about water but, as I carry a rack bag, I can probably take an extra few litres with me.

cdaly_

velopeloton wrote: »

Not the same thing at all. If you put Drumgoff in this valley no one would notice it. There are plenty of biggers climbs here that you will never of heard of. Col du Tourmalet is 19km at 7.3% or 28km at 6% depending where you decide it starts. It's not the gradient that will do the damage it's the length and the weather. It will be either too hot or too cold or both. Plus the altitude is considerable. Your cardiovascular system will be approx 12%-15% less efficient on the last 4km of Tourmalet than on Drumgoff.

If you can ride the 175km to get here it will be no problem. Just ride your bike as much as possible before then and most importantly, be happy, cycling in the mountains is great craic.

The thing that's likely to get me is the steeper ramps. If it was a steady 7.3%, I'd cope over a couple of hours. OTOH, if it starts ramping up in spots I may just fall off...

I'm grand for the distance; 300 km coming up on Saturday next and I'll have a couple of 400s under my belt by then.

But, as Billy Connolly once said:

"Other people seem to be very uppy-downy. I'm more of an alongy sort of person myself..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDXvvu_buA4

velopeloton

cdaly_ wrote: »

Interesting one about water but, as I carry a rack bag, I can probably take an extra few litres with me.

2Cando

What side of the Tourmalet are you thinking of going up? From Luz Saint-Sauveur or Sainte-Marie de Campan? I'd certainly reccommend Luz Saint-Sauveur. If you're going to do the Tourmalet, I'd recommend doing the Col D'Aubisque for a truly epic spin!

If you start at Laruns and go up the Aubisque, you get to do what I think is the best descent in Europe to the Col de Soulor, a relatively small climb compared to the Aubisque, before a lovely descent into the valley leading up to Luz Saint-Sauveur. And then it's only the Tourmalet...

It's quite long at 105km and over 5000m of climbing, but truly truly epic riding! Below is my Stava ride from that day:

http://www.strava.com/activities/83232628

But I really can't recommend this route enough. I've done it twice and would do it again in a second. If you get a nice day, start early and take it easy (there's cafes at the top of both climbs) it's extremely enjoyable.

cdaly_

From Luz Saint-Sauveur. I'd try both but, given that I would have a 350km round trip just to get there, I don't see myself adding another col to the mix...

dario28

ROK ON wrote: »

If I was going back to the Pyrenees there are many climbs I would do for variety, toughness and beauty. The Tourmalet is not one of them.

Can ya suggest a few please , heading in May and staying with velopeleton . so few suggestions would be great

on_the_nickel

dario28 wrote: »

Can ya suggest a few please , heading in May and staying with velopeleton . so few suggestions would be great

Luz Ardiden (turn right in Luz instead of left for the Tourmalet) is heaven. Lovely road, quiet during the summer, beautiful views, steady gradient. You can get into a nice rhythm. Absolutely loved it. Best hour of suffering I've ever had.

Would also go out to the Cirque de Gavernie. Steady drag for 40 odd km (from Argeles) to a Unesco heritage site, then you get to bomb it back down the road towards Luz.

ROK ON

dario28 wrote: »

Can ya suggest a few please , heading in May and staying with velopeleton . so few suggestions would be great

Aubisque and Soleur are simply stunning. The western approach to Aunisque is forested for much of the climb with regular glimpses of waterfalls.
2/3rds of the way up there is a bar with a viewing point over the entire valley.
The road between the two climbs is just gorgeous.

Hautacam is a savage beast of a climb. Gradient never settles down. That said it is so nice.
Between Argeles - Bagnere de Bigorre and St Marie de Campagne there is a forest with a few lovely climbs. Head from Argeles to Ger and onto Junclas. You will climb tue col du courete and come out in lesponne valley. This ranks still as the most picturesque cycle I have done. Once in lesponne then you are 14 or 15 km from the peak of the Tourmalet via the more picturesque East side IMHO.

Also
Col du Port
The Aspin
Both are reasonable grafients were you can get a good tempo going and simply enjoy the scenery.
Stunning part of France .

letape

On a trip to the Pyrenees a couple of years back I found the following website very useful:

http://www.velopyrenees.com/pyrenees_cols.htm

We stayed in Luchon and had an amazing choice of climbs close by - Superbagneres (famous for battle between Fignon and LeMond in '89), Port de Bales (chaingate), Col de Peyresourde and Aspin and the Tourmalet was a little further away.

My favourite was the Col de Portillon which was minutes outside Luchon and was a savagely steep 10km climb that takes you into Spain.

FrankGrimes

ROK ON wrote: »

Between Argeles - Bagnere de Bigorre and St Marie de Campagne there is a forest with a few lovely climbs. Head from Argeles to Ger and onto Junclas. You will climb tue col du courete and come out in lesponne valley. This ranks still as the most picturesque cycle I have done. Once in lesponne then you are 14 or 15 km from the peak of the Tourmalet via the more picturesque East side IMHO.

.

Hey ROK ON, hope the form is well. Gang of 10 of us heading over to the Pyrenees in August and this thread, and your post in particular, are whetting the appetite. Have come across most of the cols mentioned here during my research, but had not heard of Col Du Courete and I plan on doing some photography while we're over there so picturesque climbs are definitely of interest. Not sure I've followed your directions correctly - does this route cover it?

We're staying in Bagneres-de-Bigorre, can you get to it from that side also?

I'll trade you the route of my most picturesque cycle ever, Villard-Reymond opposite Alpe D'Huez - when you can see the full mountain from top to bottom from across the valley, the scale of it is most apparent. Though the route up Villard-Reymond itself is stunning, it's the 2km of walking-only cliff-edge track the other side of it and the unlit tunnel you go through on the way down that is particularly stunning. Not sure the exact route we took down, but beyond the Villard-Reymond village you go up to a viewing point - as you're looking across the valley towards l'Alpe D'Huez, there's a track to a forest on your right, but you take a crappy little road down to the left in front of the viewing point, it quickly cuts back on itself and there's your 2-3km loose gravel track with sheer drop-offs and stunning views, follow that back to le Bourg D'Oisans. Start of route is here.

TheDocMan

dario28 wrote: »

Can ya suggest a few please , heading in May and staying with velopeleton . so few suggestions would be great

If youre staying with velopeleton you`ll have enough suggestions for climbs to go back every year for the next 5 at least. Surely Hautacam is a must but a total b....ard. Really liked Luz Ardiden, Pont D`espana and Cauterets(spelling could be dodgy)

TheDocMan

FrankGrimes wrote: »

Hey ROK ON, hope the form is well. Gang of 10 of us heading over to the Pyrenees in August and this thread, and your post in particular, are whetting the appetite. Have come across most of the cols mentioned here during my research, but had not heard of Col Du Courete and I plan on doing some photography while we're over there so picturesque climbs are definitely of interest. Not sure I've followed your directions correctly - does this route cover it?

We're staying in Bagneres-de-Bigorre, can you get to it from that side also?

I'll trade you the route of my most picturesque cycle ever, Villard-Reymond opposite Alpe D'Huez - when you can see the full mountain from top to bottom from across the valley, the scale of it is most apparent. Though the route up Villard-Reymond itself is stunning, it's the 2km of walking-only cliff-edge track the other side of it and the unlit tunnel you go through on the way down that is particularly stunning. Not sure the exact route we took down, but beyond the Villard-Reymond village you go up to a viewing point - as you're looking across the valley towards l'Alpe D'Huez, there's a track to a forest on your right, but you take a crappy little road down to the left in front of the viewing point, it quickly cuts back on itself and there's your 2-3km loose gravel track with sheer drop-offs and stunning views, follow that back to le Bourg D'Oisans. Start of route is here.

Again Frank I'd suggest a query to Velopeleton- his very close second expertise is bike/mountain & scenery photography.
Still looking at my picture on the wall heading up 14% section of the Col de Marie Blanc- totally destroyed but the picture make me look like im as comfortable as Ricardo Ricco in his hayday!!! Cheers for that P.

velopeloton

From Saint-Savin or Argeles-Gazost there are 34 categorized climbs all starting within 4 kilometres of here.

Port de Boucharo is 42km at 5%, the last 10km are at 8%. The road dead ends at the spanish border at 2273m. This is landscape on a truly epic scale in the national park.

Cirque de Troumouse, 37km at 5% climbing to 2100m. Again the last 10km are much steeper and the road surface very dead. And again scenery on an epic scale.

Col du Tourmalet, 28km at 5.6% or 19 at 7.4% depending who you ask. Either way an epic Tour de France classic. The first and most often used HC climb by Le Tour, 2014 will be the 85th time. Some say it's not very scenic, I think they must be riding with their eyes closed. Gets very busy in July and August.

Luz Ardiden, 13km at 7.9%. A Tour de France classic mountain top finish. 25 hairpins, big wide road, great surface and hardly a car to be seen in summer. The best descend there is. For a photographer a must do for the shot looking down on the hairpins.

Hautacam, the hardest of them all. 16km at 8% to 1640m and that's not the full story. A very irregular climb with sections up to 17% and a few long sections of 15%, at 3.2km from the ski station there is 1km at 13%. Very little shade, if it's hot do it early, in the afternoon sun it's infernal. A Tour de France finish which will be the final one of the 2014 race. The tour finish is 1.5km from the summit at Col de Tramassel.

Cambasque, 16km at 6% to 1376m. in the last 5km there are 3.5 which never go below 10%. Both Le Tour and La Vuelta have finished up here. Great road and great surface. First 10km to Cauterets can be busy.

Pont d'Espagne, 6 km from Cauterets at 8% to 1500m. Spectacular climb in the national park. If you want waterfalls, huge granite peaks and pine forests this is not to be missed.

Lac d'Estaing, 16km at 6% to 1200m with a max of 16%. My favourite climb in the Pyrénées. Simply beautiful, quiet roads, hard climbing, a very pastoral rural scene. The small lake at the summit is stunning.

Col des Borderes, 15km at 5% to 1157m, last 3 are very steep. Most of it is the same climb as Lac d'Estaing. It was on the 1985 stage won by Stephen Roche.

Col de Couraduque 17km at 5% to 1367m. The last 6 are much steeper with a max of 16%. Nordic ski station in Val d'Azun. Another favourite and although it is a HC climb mostly unknown. Fantastic road, amazing views from the top. Also has a cafe with a nice terrace overlooking Val d'Azun.

Col du Soulor, 21km at 5.7% to 1474m. Third most used climb by Le Tour. Like all the climbs in Val d'Azun it has a remote and bucolic feel. From the summit you can continue on for another 10km to Col d'Aubisque to 1709m, the second most used climb by Le Tour. A visit to the cafe for lunch is a must do. I recommend the Garbure. This road Cirque de Litor is truly spectacular, only rivaled by Troumouse, cut into the rock of a 1km high cliff. It has the best helicopter shots in Le Tour. Soulor can also be ridden from the north where it is 13km at 8%. The loop around through Lourdes is 80km.

Col de Spandelles, 16km at 6% with a max of 17%. Have you ever heard of it? Probably not. A HC climb of 16km, climbs straight out of Argeles and is a brutal leg buster the whole way. The road is very narrow and the surface very very dead. From the north it is 10km at 8.5%, many say it is the hardest in the area, my vote still goes to Hautacam. In the 2012 Route du Sud a third of the riders abandoned on the climb. It's saving grace it that it is forested most of the way so has plenty of shade from the sun and wind.

That is just the Hc and 1st cat climbs, there are 22 others which you would hardly notice here, although many of them would be legendary if they were in Ireland. They are most narrow roads and very steep, one goes to 30%.

As for photography just do what I do, point and click, you can't go wrong in the Pyrenees.

velopeloton

FrankGrimes wrote: »

Hey ROK ON, hope the form is well. Gang of 10 of us heading over to the Pyrenees in August and this thread, and your post in particular, are whetting the appetite. Have come across most of the cols mentioned here during my research, but had not heard of Col Du Courete and I plan on doing some photography while we're over there so picturesque climbs are definitely of interest. Not sure I've followed your directions correctly - does this route cover it?

We're staying in Bagneres-de-Bigorre, can you get to it from that side also?

I'll trade you the route of my most picturesque cycle ever, Villard-Reymond opposite Alpe D'Huez - when you can see the full mountain from top to bottom from across the valley, the scale of it is most apparent. Though the route up Villard-Reymond itself is stunning, it's the 2km of walking-only cliff-edge track the other side of it and the unlit tunnel you go through on the way down that is particularly stunning. Not sure the exact route we took down, but beyond the Villard-Reymond village you go up to a viewing point - as you're looking across the valley towards l'Alpe D'Huez, there's a track to a forest on your right, but you take a crappy little road down to the left in front of the viewing point, it quickly cuts back on itself and there's your 2-3km loose gravel track with sheer drop-offs and stunning views, follow that back to le Bourg D'Oisans. Start of route is here.

Col de Couret is nice and worth doing from Bagneres but not worth the trip from Argeles.

http://www.strava.com/segments/5714334

velopeloton

TheDocMan wrote: »

Again Frank I'd suggest a query to Velopeleton- his very close second expertise is bike/mountain & scenery photography.
Still looking at my picture on the wall heading up 14% section of the Col de Marie Blanc- totally destroyed but the picture make me look like im as comfortable as Ricardo Ricco in his hayday!!! Cheers for that P.

You're being modest Doc. It was 18% and I think Ricco had help.

Tree Scape

I've been obsessing bout getting over the Tourmlet since I registered for Etape.
After reading those last few posts I should also be obsessing (Crapping it) about Hautacam...sounds even worse....I thought get over Tourmalet and the one at the end sure will be grand....

velopeloton

Tree Scape wrote: »

I've been obsessing bout getting over the Tourmlet since I registered for Etape.
After reading those last few posts I should also be obsessing (Crapping it) about Hautacam...sounds even worse....I thought get over Tourmalet and the one at the end sure will be grand....

Sure you will be grand. It's only 145km. Tourmalet is steep but very steady and it is really only 12km from that side, then just take Hautacam 1km at a time. Ride your bike as much as possible before then.

mcgratheoin

This Page has a summary of the climbs in the Hautes Pyrénées listed by difficulty.

As a comparison, Mount Leinster from the Borris side all the way to the mast has a difficulty rating of 745 - it's 11km at just under 7% average. In fairness, it's actually more like 7km at over 9% if you start from Killedmond. Either way, the big climbs in the Pyrenees are basically like doing this twice with no descent in the middle.

I can't decide whether I'm envious or not....

Morrisseeee

mcgratheoin wrote: »

As a comparison, Mount Leinster from the Borris side all the way to the mast has a difficulty rating of 745 - it's 11km at just under 7% average.

That Borris climb to the mast would be a more difficult climb as there are fierce gradients in it, the Tourmalet is more steady.

GoTilUBlow

There is just no comparison.

mcgratheoin

Morrisseeee wrote: »

the Tourmalet is more steady.

and twice as long....

Morrisseeee

It's not a direct one-to-one comparison. I'm just stating that the gradient is more fierce on the Borris climb and if you didn't have the gearing, you'd be walking or turning for home.

mcgratheoin

Morrisseeee wrote: »

It's not a direct one-to-one comparison. I'm just stating that the gradient is more fierce on the Borris climb and if you didn't have the gearing, you'd be walking or turning for home.

that's true, but I tend to rate stuff based on how I'd feel at the top and I reckon I'd take longer to recover after a long continental climb than Mt. Leinster. It all depends on how fast you're going i guess

ian_rush

Has anybody ever had a go at the Stelvio?

GoTilUBlow

Nothing in Ireland can prepare you for

a) the heat (on a clear day)

b) the altitude, once you hit about 1700m it feels a lot harder. Try the Galibier, you will know all about it then. Never has 5kmh been so hard.

All great fun though!!

07Lapierre

The descent from Galibier to Alpe D'Huez makes all the suffering worth it!

GoTilUBlow

07Lapierre wrote: »

The descent from Galibier to Alpe D'Huez makes all the suffering worth it!

That little drag out of Freyne is some killer after two hours spinning down hill

07Lapierre

GoTilUBlow wrote: »

That little drag out of Freyne is some killer after two hours spinning down hill

Yep..the "little drag" up to Alpe D'huez is even worse!

GoTilUBlow

If you stop and get sick a couple of times it's usually fine

2 Wheels Good

GoTilUBlow wrote: »

Nothing in Ireland can prepare you for

a) the heat (on a clear day)

b) the altitude, once you hit about 1700m it feels a lot harder. Try the Galibier, you will know all about it then. Never has 5kmh been so hard.

All great fun though!!

Found the Galibier fine for some reason, 42 degrees on Alpe D'huez was a whole other issue though! The descent off the Galibier was great, especially with closed roads!

seve65

I would go back up the Galibier or Tormalet tomorrow given the chance. I would think twice about taking mt leinster on again to the mast. Honest :-)

blobbie

GoTilUBlow wrote: »

Nothing in Ireland can prepare you for

a) the heat (on a clear day)

b) the altitude, once you hit about 1700m it feels a lot harder. Try the Galibier, you will know all about it then. Never has 5kmh been so hard.

All great fun though!!

And it will take approx 1 extra minute to boil an egg

outfox

If you had an egg.

whacker00

Hoping to hit the tour this year from the 21-27 July, would love to get a couple of climbs in, could be a bit busy around though. Some great info on here about the area

cdaly_

So, the plan is to set out from Linxe (down on the Atlantic coast), spin the 175km to Saint Savins, do the Pont d'Espagne that evening (http://goo.gl/maps/HzbZP). Dinner chez Velopeloton. Up at the crack of dawn (or thereabouts) to tackle the Col de Tourmalet. Then spin back to Linxe in the afternoon/evening (http://goo.gl/maps/YzVSk). If I end up overcooking things, I can chop 80k off the spin home by hopping on a train...

lennymc

you should be well able for the tourmalet. We stopped for ice cream half way up. Think it took about 3 hrs to climb at a very steady pace. Drink lots.

gmoorewest

If I could piggyback here to get some advice re gear. Going over to Luz Saint Sauveur for 2 weeks holiday on Sunday. It looks like the weather will be mixed but should be enough good days and any wet/cold days can be quality time with the family. My plan is to head out around 7/8am and do one of the nearby Cols, so will I be ok with shorts, short sleeve top, then gillet, arm warmers or rain jacket for descent. Thanks G