Manchester United Superthread 2014 Mod warning Post #1880 #2613

PropJoe10

Pighead wrote: »

Maybe the emotion of the game got to you but Olympiakos created sweet **** all in the last 15 mins. They had one half chance with a well worked move down the left and a cross which Jones put out for a corner and a couple of hopeful long balls into the box which went straight into De Gea's arms.

They didn't even have that much of the ball. Van Persie's injury wasted a couple of mins, Utd worked two or three corners and Fellaini bought a couple of frees. It was actually quite a comfortable ending all things considered.

No emotion here, I'm a Pool fan I just thought United played a dangerous game, the minute they got the third they switched off and didnt bother looking for the goal that would've completely killed the tie.

My opinion on Moyes is that hes struggling because hes trying to put some more structure to a team and squad that doesnt have the personnel to play in the way that he had his teams set up to play at Everton. United's squad has been weak for a few years but they got away with it last year through Fergie's influence, an overload attacking style and RVP's goals. The Fergie style of play has never been anywhere close to the way Moyes sets up his teams. Until ye get rid of the likes of Evra, Ferdinand (both seem unable to run) and the likes of Valencia, Carrick, Cleverley, Young, Nani etc, its going to be a difficult job for whatever manager goes in there.

Pighead

bucketybuck wrote: »

We aren't talking about the missing link to unlock the Bayern defence here, we are talking central midfield against Olympiakos. Giggs may be more creative than Felliani, but if Felliani is not sufficiently creative to to be effective against Olympiakos then what the fcuk did we just spend £27.5m on?

Have you changed your mind about Olympiakos? Yesterday you said that this was a good Olympiakos team and anybody who thought Utd could qualify were being daft and seriously underestimating the Greeks.

keane2097

bucketybuck wrote: »

I am amused that you complain about strawman debating and then try to lump me in with those saying Giggs was only picked because of a row. How ironic, considering I never once said that.

My point about Felliani is very simple. You think you know some amazing truth about Giggs being selected because he is more creative than Felliani, but you can't seem to grasp that this raises more questions than it answers.

We aren't talking about the missing link to unlock the Bayern defence here, we are talking central midfield against Olympiakos. Giggs may be more creative than Felliani, but if Felliani is not sufficiently creative to to be effective against Olympiakos then what the fcuk did we just spend £27.5m on?

A sitting midfielder. Hope this helps.

TheDoc

Agueroooo wrote: »

I agree and have been playing long enough to see your point in full flow for a couple of decades now having now also coached and in the process of getting my badges.

But...

There is big change underway.
I was as skeptical as the next person when I read about the introduction of 'small sided(non competitive) 5-a-side' for school boy soccer, but I can assure you its working and I am already seeing the benifits with a couple of school boy teams I coach.

Its not perfect, not by a long shot, but its making sure the kids are getting the required number of touches (which we analyse amongst other things) and the elite type player/kid still blossoms, and the average kid also gets a more condensed form of coaching and skill set.

I truly believe that when this current crop of kids playing this new system reach senior level we will have a more continental type players on our hands.

For a different thread potentially, but its important that we don't lose our identity either, and believe it or not Irish players have a stereotyped identity across Europe. Hard working, tough tackling high stamina players. But with average to poor technical ability.

Like that hopefully the change to less competitive games at a younger level will improve the technical aspect, but we can't lose the tough tackling aspect.

Needs to be some expectation management aswell, from a small population there isn't going to be a glutton of top class players out there. We arn't doing too bad in fairness, of course every now and then some top class players emerge, but when you compare us against other relative populations we have alot more players in top level football.

when I think back to my under age football, once a year I played in the Milk cup, once every two years went to Liverpool for a schoolboy tournament and three times went to Holland for the famous Ajax schoolboy tournaments.

Obviously things probably changed now, but I remember there never been a massive difference between Irish and UK players at that level. When you consider the money and facilities they had then at their disposal, even more disproportionate now.

Although no question that our game here in Ireland has falled massively behind. I still frequent my old club to watch the senior teams play, and watch nephews games, and it's still emphasis on "second ball" and "let him know your there" and punting it into a big man up front, rather then trying to play the ball on the ground. It's so disorganised and absent of tactics or ability it's horrendous to watch.

My constant gripe with the FAI and why I fail to support them in their current capacity, have far too long failed Irish football, but like I said probably for another thread.

Macca07

spiralism wrote: »

Second half we persisted with Valencia until the 75th minute despite him having one eye swollen shut and on a yellow and final warning since the end of the first half. Should have been hooked at half time, i thought he was definitely going to get sent off or cost us a goal because of his injury. Is Valencia that important to our plans that we leave him on that long when it's a risk to do so? I mean he was decent tonight but he remains a hugely one dimensional, out of form player that offers very very little these days.

Valencia didn't pick up any yellow card. He was warned twice, and probably should've got a yellow (Think the ref might have felt sorry for him with the swollen eye). It was his best game for United in a long long time, he has actually beating men on the wing. And he should've won a penalty in the first half. He did more than what Young did when he came on.

Lord TSC

Macca07 wrote: »

Valencia didn't pick up any yellow card. He was warned twice, and probably should've got a yellow (Think the ref might have felt sorry for him with the swollen eye). It was his best game for United in a long long time, he has actually beating men on the wing. And he should've won a penalty in the first half. He did more than what Young did when he came on.

Young was given a different role though; Valencia's job was to help score 3 goals. Young's was to clear the ball and make sure we didn't concede.

irishfeen

Macca07 wrote: »

Valencia didn't pick up any yellow card. He was warned twice, and probably should've got a yellow (Think the ref might have felt sorry for him with the swollen eye). It was his best game for United in a long long time, he has actually beating men on the wing. And he should've won a penalty in the first half. He did more than what Young did when he came on.

Yep, I think he provided something we were badly missing lately - the ability to break fast from defence and either beating his man or interlinking to beat the man... his final product is exceptionally maddening but we need that pace to at least give Rooney and RVP some sort of chance to link up.

K-9

bucketybuck wrote: »

We aren't talking about the missing link to unlock the Bayern defence here, we are talking central midfield against Olympiakos. Giggs may be more creative than Felliani, but if Felliani is not sufficiently creative to to be effective against Olympiakos then what the fcuk did we just spend £27.5m on?

The simple answer is one player isn't the answer to Uniteds problems in CM, and long term at least 1 more CM is needed. A DM type player with a more creative, attacking side is a very hard player to get and tbh, Fellaini isn't that player. Moyes felt the balance between Carrick and Giggs was right.

I don't really see why this is that difficult to consider as a possibility.

bucketybuck

Pighead wrote: »

Have you changed your mind about Olympiakos? Yesterday you said that this was a good Olympiakos team and anybody who thought Utd could qualify were being daft and seriously underestimating the Greeks.

This was a good Olympiakos team, there on merit. They are not Bayern or Madrid though. You think you are making a point but normal adults know its not as simple as one or the other.

bucketybuck

keane2097 wrote: »

A sitting midfielder. Hope this helps.

Basically then you are a Championship Manager, living in a world where players are defensive midfielders or attacking midfielders, nothing in between.

I apologise for expecting our £27.5m midfield signing to be able to pass the ball forward. He is of course a sitting midfielder, so passing is not his job and he shouldn't have to do it.

keane2097

bucketybuck wrote: »

This was a good Olympiakos team, there on merit. They are not Bayern or Madrid though. You think you are making a point but normal adults know its not as simple as one or the other.

bucketybuck wrote: »

So in your opinion Felliani really is so limited that he wouldn't have been able to offer anything creatively against a team like Olympiakos?

Cantona's Collars

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

We are blessed to have him, he is simple fantastic. His reactions on that double save were a joy to watch. I feel like a proud dad watching his son getting better and better.

Just for you.

Cantona's Collars

Reports from Portugal are saying that we are in talks over Carvahlo, €30 million or €18 million & a player.

tallaghtmick

gracehopper wrote: »

Quick Question, Does anyone think Kagawa could play in a deeper role alongside Carrick or possibly even Fellaini?

The way things stand there his future looks bleak at the club as we have Mata and Rooney who will most likely play in the hole.

I read an interview he gave and he said he could play there, dont ask for proof as it was months ago.

Pighead

bucketybuck wrote: »

This was a good Olympiakos team, there on merit. They are not Bayern or Madrid though. You think you are making a point but normal adults know its not as simple as one or the other.

They are an average side at best. Your posts pre-match made it sound like an impossible task for Utd to turn around a two match deficit when it was anything but. You've let a poor season thus far cloud your judgement for what was a very winnable game. The hysteria (not just by you) upon the announcement of Utd's line up last night was way over the top.

bucketybuck

K-9 wrote: »

Moyes felt the balance between Carrick and Giggs was right.

I don't really see why this is that difficult to consider as a possibility.

Is Carrick and Giggs our best central midfield pairing then? Will we expect that pairing in the quarter final?

Lord TSC

zerks wrote: »

Reports from Portugal are saying that we are in talks over Carvahlo, €30 million or €18 million & a player.

Seems a lot for a 21 year old. Is he that good?

Hococop

One the main highlights of the game. That wonderful moustache

bucketybuck

keane2097 wrote: »

Do you even know what point you are trying to make here?

Macca07

zerks wrote: »

Just for you.

that save was just epic.

keane2097

bucketybuck wrote: »

Do you even know what point you are trying to make here?

My post - Giggs is more creative than Fellaini and United needed three goals.

Your post - So you're saying Felliani really is so limited that he wouldn't have been able to offer anything creatively against a team like Olympiakos.

Your unrelated but delightfully ironic post - You think you are making a point but normal adults know its not as simple as one or the other.

My post -

bucketybuck

Pighead wrote: »

They are an average side at best. Your posts pre-match made it sound like an impossible task for Utd to turn around a two match deficit when it was anything but. You've let a poor season thus far cloud your judgement for what was a very winnable game. The hysteria (not just by you) upon the announcement of Utd's line up last night was way over the top.

My opinions pre-match were realistic, and you are misstating them today.

I said pre match that Olympiakos were a good side, and that to win United would have to put in a good performance. My sole point pre-match was that United had not put in a good performance in weeks, and so we shouldn't be at all confident that we were suddenly about to do so.

I never said that it was an impossible task for United, you are misrepresenting what I said.

Macca07

keeponhurling wrote: »

It was top priority last summer as well, as admitted by Moyes and evidenced in moves for Baines and Couintreau.

It was also top priority in the January transfer window.

However the war-chest remains untouched. If Moyes really wanted, he could have gotten Baines, Shaw or any number of quality left backs from around Europe.

Evra at his age has to play every match.
I would have liked to see him and stay and play the role of Giggs, Scholes, Rio etc. and be a squad player who could share his experience.

Only thing Moyes has done to "address" the left back position is to let Fabio go out on loan again.

Fabio has signed permanently for Cardiff.

We were believed to have made a bid for Shaw in January but was turned down. We bid for Baines last summer, and Contreao on loan. Everton and Real both turned it down. Do you really think that is not trying to address the problem?

bucketybuck

keane2097 wrote: »

My post - Giggs is more creative than Fellaini and United needed three goals.

Your post - So you're saying Felliani really is so limited that he wouldn't have been able to offer anything creatively against a team like Olympiakos.

Your unrelated but delightfully ironic post - You think you are making a point but normal adults know its not as simple as one or the other.

You should try again. Get some coffee first though.

Macca07

Drop van Persie they said, he wants to move they said, all he's doing is sulk they said, how wrong they were...

But in all fairness, that was a totally different RvP we saw last night compared to what we've seen for the last month.

For the first time all season, we saw fight, we saw desire, we saw a team that actually wanted to play. DDG was outstanding, as was Giggs. Rooney was good, gave the ball away a few too many times but was still good.

Looks like it took a knock to the head to Tony V to make him realise he's still a Man Utd player, he was fairly good last night too. The whole team played well in fairness, but Rio was the weak link last night, he just doesn't have that pace anymore and that was a big part to his game.

Didn't realise Vidic had a groin strain until this morning, but he shouldn't be played unless we have injuries. I thought Moyes had taken Vidic to one side and cut his head off in an attempt to motivate the rest of the team, that's how different it was last night.

keane2097

bucketybuck wrote: »

You should try again. Get some coffee first though.

So can we just clarify - the statement

you'll probably get away with a more creative player like Giggs where in other circumstances you might want a more defensive one like Fellaini

does not imply the statement

Felliani really is so limited that he wouldn't have been able to offer anything creatively against a team like Olympiakos.

and that in that case you thought you were making a point but normal adults know its not as simple as one or the other?

bangkok

Macca07 wrote: »

that save was just epic.

save of the season..

bangkok

lots of praise for de gea, giggs rooney and rvp...... still poor danny gets nothing.... he was up there last night for motm.... class

spiralism

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Today's headlines show how fickle sports fans and journalists are. I thought United were hanging on for the last ten minutes last night, once they scored the third goal they went completely into their shells - if Olympiakos had scored a lucky goal, today's headlines would be about the end of the road for Moyes. Now hes a man with a plan again. I didnt think United were great last night, and they wont be great until the likes of Evra and Ferdinand are replaced. Giggs had an excellent game, and RVP took his goals very well, but other than that I thought United were pretty poor and only marginally better than in other games this season where they've been soundly beaten.

Because he's british basically. If he was a foreign coach the british tabloid press would be still crucifying him (like they've done with AVB for example) despite good results but they'll give one of their own praise at any opportunity. It's how things work there.

Will I Amnt

Macca07 wrote: »

that save was just epic.

It was a great save but in fairness, it was a poor effort. The keeper shouldn't be given a chance from that position.