Manchester United Superthread 2014 Mod warning Post #1880 #2613

Chagan

Did he say this kind of bollocks at Everton? I mean, I know he's never been the most adventurous manager around, but that is just a mind boggling attitude for a top manager.

Hank Scorpio

Headshot wrote: »

What was that?

Howard said Martinez sets up the Everton to attack opponents weaknesses, where as Moyes set up Everton to make sure the opponents didn't score

ManofStraw

I was on the fence until recently, but certain games have been too hard to ignore. The Sunderland performance was one of the worst I have ever seen from United. That was followed up with Fulham, Olympiakos and now today.

Today really was the final straw that removed any support I had for him. At the end of the day if he can't motivate the players against Liverpool at home then he has no place being there.

It genuinely scares me to think what City or any other good team would do to us at the minute.

MagicMarker

nuxxx wrote: »

Howard said Martinez sets up the Everton to attack opponents weaknesses, where as Moyes set up Everton to make sure the opponents didn't score

Unless I missed the whole quote, he didn't say that about Moyes. It was merely implied by him saying Martinez sets up to attack.

Hank Scorpio

ManofStraw wrote: »

It genuinely scares me to think what City or any other good team would do to us at the minute.

Won't have to wait long to find out

Hank Scorpio

MagicMarker wrote: »

Unless I missed the whole quote, he didn't say that about Moyes. It was merely implied by him saying Martinez sets up to attack.

That's true enough, here's the article anyway

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/458554/Everton-veteran-goalkeeper-Tim-Howard-praises-Roberto-Martinez-s-beautiful-mind

KH25

KH25 wrote: »

The lineup was fine. It was probably close to the strongest 11 we have. But the system wasn't working and that was clear from early, yet nothing was done until the 75th minute or so. Thats ridiculous. Jan should have been taken off at half time at least. He was having no joy. We end up 2-0 down after the break, yet Moyes still does nothing? Why?

Jan has been poor for a while now, he gets plenty of ball every game and does SFA with it 9 times out of 10. I couldn't help but think today that some of the positions he was in that Kagawa and maybe even Young could have produced a good ball from. Jan has good control and technique but that means little when you can be pushed off the ball so easily. Other small players use movement and quick passing to get around their marker, he just seems to run at them with no idea what he will do if he does get around him.

The team had absolutely no composure today, so many misplaced passes and bad touches. RVP needs to spend a few games sitting on the bench. Welbeck has been good this season and Kagawa wont let you down with his first touch like Rooney did so many times today. Rooney only showed a bit of guile once he got angry today.

I think Carrick is holding the team back. I'm a big fan of him and he's a very under appreciated player but if the system played today is to work you need the midfielders covering the wings and pressuring their opponents. There was far too much standing off today and a few occasions where him and Fellaini were right on top of each other. Midfield is a large enough place for 2 players to find space there. Rooney should have been dropping in to help too but that's not in his arsenal anymore it would seem.

I said it while Fergie was there, the tactics at the club are terrible in general, for too long it was the player's individual magic winning the trophies rather than the system at the club. It's always been a "give the ball to Ronaldo/Rooney/RVP/Nani/Berbatov and they'll provide a pass or shot at some stage to give us a 1-0 win. The last time there seemed to be a set of tactics that everyone bought into was 2008 or 2009. When Ronaldo left it became so reliant on Rooney, Nani and Berbatov sometimes working off each other to win games, last season it was RVP. When the individuals are low on confidence the team doesn't have a system to fall back on so they look like headless chickens out there.

Now obviously Moyes is partly to blame for that but Keane's statement the other week that Moyes would have been shocked at the quality available to him actually applies here imo. He's targeting the right players but there needs to be a sharp change in the system for it to work. Now a Kroos or someone of similar ilk would be a huge improvement already to imparting a new style so we'll see in that regard I guess. Unless something miraculous happens on Wednesday my patience will be as thin as I thought possible at this stage.

Quandary

SherlockWatson wrote: »

Because he's the manager of Manchester United, the club I support, and while he is in charge, I will support him.

What is your opinion on how Moyes has done since he took over?

SherlockWatson

Quandary wrote: »

What is your opinion on how Moyes has done since he took over?

Probably the same as yours.

Quandary

SherlockWatson wrote: »

Probably the same as yours.

Im not trying to railroad you by asking loaded questions. Im seriously trying to find something positive to latch onto because I've got nothing

thelad95

nuxxx wrote: »

Howard said Martinez sets up the Everton to attack opponents weaknesses, where as Moyes set up Everton to make sure the opponents didn't score

Martinez has Everton in the exact same place as they were last year. Don't get all the love for him.

Cantona's Collars

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy8LdGQt_6Y

Hank Scorpio

Liverpool play a simple enough pass and move game with high pressing and it was enough to completely desolate Moye's team and tactics. I just don't see any structure at all to the way the team is setup, its like they can't throw a few passes together once the ball enters the opponents half of the field, like some parallel Universe. There's no connection between the players, its all totally static and they're all playing as individuals rather than a team. You would think after 6 or 7 months of league games things would be better. Credit to Moyes, he has a unique ability to make top class players like RVP and Mata look completely sh1t.

Lord TSC

Refreshing the page regularly, waiting for some good news

thelad95

thelad95 wrote: »

Martinez has Everton in the exact same place as they were last year. Don't get all the love for him.

He's gotten a team relegated in the last 12 months too. Gotten a top level striker which Moyes never had too.

SherlockWatson

zerks wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy8LdGQt_6Y

That's guy a f*ckin idiot.

thelad95

Liam O wrote: »

He's gotten a team relegated in the last 12 months too. Gotten a top level striker which Moyes never had too.

Martinez is a quality manager don't get me wrong. How he managed to keep Wigan up for how long they were and win the FA cup is incredible. But people make out that he has brought about an incredible transformation at Everton. While they are playing better football they haven't pushed on yet.

beno619

Liam O wrote: »

Now obviously Moyes is partly to blame for that but Keane's statement the other week that Moyes would have been shocked at the quality available to him actually applies here imo. He's targeting the right players but there needs to be a sharp change in the system for it to work. Now a Kroos or someone of similar ilk would be a huge improvement already to imparting a new style so we'll see in that regard I guess. Unless something miraculous happens on Wednesday my patience will be as thin as I thought possible at this stage.

Liam O wrote: »

He's gotten a team relegated in the last 12 months too. Gotten a top level striker which Moyes never had too.

The lengths you go to defend Moyes are incredible, Jan was one of our better performers today.

Martinez has his team playing better football and in a much more difficult PL climate are ahead of United.

Whatsisname

Does anybody read Red Issue? apparently there was stuff about Moyes losing the dressing room (bit obvious at this stage) and Giggs in it today

Cantona's Collars

SherlockWatson wrote: »

That's guy a f*ckin idiot.

Why? For speaking his mind.....he's been supporting the club since Busby was in charge and has seen what happened when we had the wrong man in charge.The parallels are there.

dahat

Whatsisname wrote: »

Does anybody read Red Issue? apparently there was stuff about Moyes losing the dressing room (bit obvious at this stage) and Giggs in it today

They have a closed forum as well but I'm not registered, they are usually pretty good though from bits and pieces seen on Twitter over time.

2moreMinutes

beno619 wrote: »

The lengths you go to defend Moyes are incredible, Jan was one of our better performers today.

Martinez has his team playing better football and in a much more difficult PL climate are ahead of United.

Jan has been bordering on terrible recently. I'm not sure how stating that can be taken as defending Moyes when Moyes is the one who is picking him.

He should be taken out of the limelight a little for his own sake. He's going to be a great player but constantly getting knocked off the ball like a ten year old won't do him any use.

There are a lot of things that can be said about a lot of players which have nothing to do with either defending or attacking Moyes. Not seeing this is a sure sign of someone's blinkered attitude towards him though.

2moreMinutes

ManOnFire wrote: »

In fairness it was one quote in isolation thats been taken out of context. He went on to say he felt for Moyes as he knew the pressures of a big club/big job etc

I haven't seen or read the full interview so I may be slightly ott in terms of how classless I think the quote was. He still shouldn't have given any ammunition to the press to fire though.

Chagan

Liam O wrote: »

He's gotten a team relegated in the last 12 months too. Gotten a top level striker which Moyes never had too.

I agree Martinez hasn't really outperformed Moyes but Everton fans seem to enjoy his football and prefer his presence at the club.

Also, why didn't Moyes get himself a top striker if that's all it took? His ability to identify problem areas is one of strong points of his tenure here apparently.

The fact a manager who was relegated last year is doing just as well as the Manchester United manager did is testament to the fact he isn't qualified for this job.

user2011

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Refreshing the page regularly, waiting for some good news

TSC give it till next week before you go doing that the f5 key will thank you

beno619

beno619 wrote: »

The lengths you go to defend Moyes are incredible, Jan was one of our better performers today.

Martinez has his team playing better football and in a much more difficult PL climate are ahead of United.

I'm not defending him. I'm merely laying out possibilities for how it's gone so spectacularly wrong this season. I'm not laying the blame solely on Moyes like a lot seem happy to do here. I think it's a deeper rooted problem.

The premier league hasn't suddenly jumped in quality this season from last season. It's probably weaker because the best team from last season have regressed so much. I don't think Chelsea are significantly better, City either though Aguero and Yaya are having a much better seasons this time around. Spurs have also gone backwards. Only Liverpool I'd say have significantly improved. Martinez's best players this season bar Coleman are both loan signings. Moyes had Baines and Coleman raiding the wings last season, Martinez was just able to pull off a real coup getting Lukaku for the season. It's not beyond the realms of possibility Moyes could have also done that. The real test for Martinez will come when he potentially has to rebuild his defense and forwards this coming Summer while having to sell to buy.

user2011

beno619 wrote: »

The lengths you go to defend Moyes are incredible, Jan was one of our better performers today.

Martinez has his team playing better football and in a much more difficult PL climate are ahead of United.

No he wasn't, only plus he helped set up Rafa setting up Rooney for the chance at the end of the first half which was our only shot on target. Constantly pushed off the ball too.

Cantona's Collars

The huge hole that is our midfield was once more ruthlessly exposed today,I'm going to say it,Carrick is finished.He wasn't the most mobile of players but now at 33 he's almost statuesque as teams simply play around him.
Look at other top teams,they use mobility in their midfield to build phases of play,we no longer do that & as a result our play is one dimensional and abysmal.His game has regressed so much this season it's on a par with Valencia but somehow he's been immune to criticism.What I wouldn't give for a dynamic DM.

Deiseboy01

Dicky Pride wrote: »

Totally deluded. He doesn't even believe himself at this stage.

I don't think he ever did

beno619

Liam O wrote: »

I'm not defending him. I'm merely laying out possibilities for how it's gone so spectacularly wrong this season. I'm not laying the blame solely on Moyes like a lot seem happy to do here. I think it's a deeper rooted problem.

The premier league hasn't suddenly jumped in quality this season from last season. It's probably weaker because the best team from last season have regressed so much. I don't think Chelsea are significantly better, City either though Aguero and Yaya are having a much better seasons this time around. Spurs have also gone backwards. Only Liverpool I'd say have significantly improved. Martinez's best players this season bar Coleman are both loan signings. Moyes had Baines and Coleman raiding the wings last season, Martinez was just able to pull off a real coup getting Lukaku for the season. It's not beyond the realms of possibility Moyes could have also done that. The real test for Martinez will come when he potentially has to rebuild his defense and forwards this coming Summer while having to sell to buy.

Chelsea have a better manager and have added Matic. Far better than last season.

City. Better manager, Negredo,Fernandinho and Navas all decent players.

Arsenal and Liverpool improved.

Everton boesnt matter if they were free signings or cost a sack of potatoes. Everton are above is playing better football. Thier players and fans are happier under Martinez.

Southampton improved. Id argue the bottom half is also stronger.

user2011 wrote: »

No he wasn't, only plus he helped set up Rafa setting up Rooney for the chance at the end of the first half which was our only shot on target. Constantly pushed off the ball too.

People see things differently I guess, poor first half better second most of our meaningful ventures forward came from him and Raf.