Manchester United Superthread 2014 Mod warning Post #1880 #2613

ericzeking

DM-ICE wrote: »

I think Moyes needed to rely on the senior players this year and it would be worse for him if he didn't.

Before he started the job he spoke about midfield and to go back to your Earlier Point he needs to fix midfield to provide the platform for players like Mata.

I can see RVP leaving now with Mata signed and Rooney with his new contract.

Re Shinji, Matas praise of him along with how well he links with Rooney gives me hope that he will be at OT next season. Same for Hernandez, Mata is only at United since late January so Moyes is going to be looking and learning who he links up well with as the season goes on. When you spend big on a guy like him you are going to keep players that get the best from him.

Ya you're right...he would have been lynched (even moreso) had he cleared out the likes of rio, evra, Vidic or RVP. It just goes to show how tough a job it was...yes he took over the champions but he also took over a bunch of ageing, institutionalised players, some of whom simply won't play for him.

Next year...an attack like todays backed up by a new central midfield with our younger, pacier centre backs playing higher up the pitch and there is plenty reason for optimism. Window is gonna be crucial.

You know I'm also starting to like the look of Buttner...he could do that wing back type of job we will need with the narrower attack.

Giggsy11

Looks like Bebe is having fantastic season at Pacos, scored some fantastic goals and IIRC he is Portugal's top scorer (only Portuguese player in the league).

Also Jackson Martinez averages 135 mins per goal playing for arguably the best team and as CF, Bebe averages 185 mins per goal playing for arguable the worst team in the league and as winger or wide forward.

Also he has scored same number of goals as Rodrigo who is very highly rated.

NTMK

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Looks like Bebe is having fantastic season at Pacos, scored some fantastic goals and IIRC he is Portugal's top scorer (only Portuguese player in the league).

Also Jackson Martinez averages 135 mins per goal playing for arguably the best team and as CF, Bebe averages 185 mins per goal playing for arguable the worst team in the league and as winger or wide forward.

Also he has scored same number of goals as Rodrigo who is very highly rated.

bebe isnt a bad player he never has been imo it just he was found about 5 years too late and was far too rough around the edges for united to develop into a great player unfortunately for him

Deiseboy01

spiralism wrote: »

It would set the club back for years. That's my main worry with keeping him really, if we want to risk next season that's one thing but if we throw the baby out with the bathwater and rid this side of most of its creative input that's quite another and spits in the ethos of the club. Kagawa, Mata and RVP should be at the club as long as they want to be, Nani and Chich deserve at least a squad spot. Young and Val are not Man United players and Cleverley is questionable to say the least. We need to be building on flair and fluidity, not dinosaur tactics whacking it out to the ****ing wings to fire crosses in. Players like the ones we could be seeing go are players that have always been valued at Man United, we shouldn't be seeing them off to accomodate players more in place at Aston Villa.

I do worry though given the way things have panned out this season that we'll end up down Kagawa and RVP at the end of it. Hopefully today was a sign that Moyes is finally coming to grips with what's expected at united and he's not going to still try make us a more expensive version of Everton but i don't know at all right now.

You're right it would set us back years. I think Moyes needs to be a little conservative with his rebuilding this summer. I know as fans we'd love to see five or six new players come in but with the World Cup this summer and the likes of Vidic, Ferdinand, Evra and possibly Guggs on the way out I don't think he can do much more trimming on the squad if he hopes to integrate all the changes before the season starts. Especially with the short pre-season he will have this year. We can't afford to have a poor start next season given the level of competition now and how precarious his position is. I'd like to see a left back, a centre back and two midfield players brought in. Max. If the team gel and he has a good season then he can address less pressing squad defects like right back, left wing, right wing in following windows.

Lord TSC

ericzeking wrote: »

Pretty much any time we have played remotely half decent this season, RVP has not been on the pitch. He's not as mobile as the other options and he's not inclined to try to be.
It might be better to get rid of him as he doesn't seem like the type of character who will embrace being a bit part player...if Moyes took the decision to make him a bit part player...as a pro Moyes head its one of my criticisms of him, his dealing with some of the big name older players.
Next year I'd like Rooney leading the line as the main striker with the captains armband

I know we're stuck with him for a while longer now, but I honestly felt the absence of Rooney yesterday helped a lot too; Mata, Januzaj, Kagawa and Hernadez were playing some amazing stuff, interplay together brilliantly in a way that I don't think Rooney would have. I honestly think RVP up front would have linked up better with the team yesterday than Rooney would have.

GSPfan

I was wondering this yesterday....

With the modern game gone the way it has with a trend for wide players to be two footed and comfortable drifting inside, is Antonio Valencia better suited to a future at full back?

This doesn't have to be at United but it seems like he has all the attributes to be a good Full Back and the fact he is completely 1 footed is exactly what most full backs are.

DM_7

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I know we're stuck with him for a while longer now, but I honestly felt the absence of Rooney yesterday helped a lot too; Mata, Januzaj, Kagawa and Hernadez were playing some amazing stuff, interplay together brilliantly in a way that I don't think Rooney would have. I honestly think RVP up front would have linked up better with the team yesterday than Rooney would have.

Really?

Rooney linked up really well with Mata since he arrived, really well with Kagawa last season and Januzaj this. I would expect the play to move up a couple of levels with Rooney up front in Hernandez place.

Lord TSC

GSPfan wrote: »

With the modern game gone the way it has with a trend for wide players to be two footed and comfortable drifting inside, is Antonio Valencia better suited to a future at full back?

If we judge him on being one footed, sure.

If we judge him on his ability to actually defend, then no....

DM-ICE wrote: »

Really?

Rooney linked up really well with Mata since he arrived, really well with Kagawa last season and Januzaj this. I would expect the play to move up a couple of levels with Rooney up front in Hernandez place.

Not saying he doesn't link up well with them; just that I personally felt the link up play was a step above yesterday without him, and that I'd personally rather RVP over Rooney as a top striker.

redbaron_99

I think the combination of Rooney, Mata, Kagawa, Januzaj has a lot of potential. Actually that quartet is good enough to pull any defence apart. But they will always be limited by the players behind them. Can you imagine how good our forward players would have looked yesterday if they had Scholes and Carrick from 2008 behind them? Fletcher and Fellaini just isnt good enough. None of our current central midfield combinations is going to be good enough to allow the forward players freedom against the top sides. That's why it's so important that we get at least one top notch midfielder in the summer.
Personally I think we need 5 players - maybe over the next two windows. But even two or three would represent a major improvement.

Drunken Lunatic Muppet Fantasy: LB - Shaw, CB - Mangala, CM - Kroos, CM - Vidal, RM - Reus. (180M)
Astute Fan's conservative expectation: LB - Coentrao, CB - Benatia, CM - Carvalho, (65M)

Now we all want those first five players, and lots of the more impatient fans would be annoyed if the second group of players was signed, BUT in my opinion we could challenge for the title next season with the latter group.

DDG
Rafeal Benatia Jones Coentrao
Carvalho
Fellaini Mata
Kagawa Januzaj
Rooney

But could you imagine....

DDG
Rafeal Mangala Jones Shaw
Kroos Vidal
Reus Mata Kagawa
Rooney

Also, how bad was Evra yesterday. I don't rate Buttner too highly, but at least he gives a damn. Evra should not play in a United jersey again.

keeponhurling

There's quite a few posts about how we need to sort out our attack, but I think that our forwards line has never really been a problem.

In the worst results this season, it has usually stemmed from being overwhelmed in midfield, hence the forwards living off scraps.

Against weaker teams our midfield gets a strong foothold in the game, the forwards get decent passes ad hence we usually win.

But against the stronger teams that have good ball players in midfield tha also press hard, we struggle to get possession or vet an good balls forward.
Doesn't matter whether it's Rooney, RVP, Mata or feckin Cantona up there, they're going to struggle.

Sort out midfield and you'll see RVP thriving again. He is one of the top finishers around

Backstreet Moyes

I would have some respect for Moyes if he sold RVP. He would be crucified but i think it would take balls and i think most can see we are better without him in the team. If he stays then him and Rooney should be rotated up front. It's obvious to see we are more creative with Mata and Kagawa both on the field.

Backstreet Moyes

I actually don't think we have the quality in midfield to supply the service to the likes of Mata and Kagawa further up the field where they are more dangerous. I haven't seen enough of Carvalho but is he the player who can create from deep i really think that is all that is missing to make us tick. For the rest of the season i would like to see the line up below.

I would like to see Young and Valencia sold in the summer and hold onto Nani and Hernandez. Wellbeck, Rooney, Hernandez, Nani, Mata, Kagawa, Janjuaz and Zaha is an unbelievable amount of firepower and any manager should be competing for a league title with that at his disposal.

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Rooney

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Wellbeck

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Mata

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Kagawa

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Hococop

Nuts102 wrote: »

I would have some respect for Moyes if he sold RVP. He would be crucified but i think it would take balls and i think most can see we are better without him in the team. If he stays then him and Rooney should be rotated up front. It's obvious to see we are more creative with Mata and Kagawa both on the field.

agreed, but its crazy to think we are playing better without a world class striker its weird

redbaron_99

Nuts102 wrote: »

I actually don't think we have the quality in midfield to supply the service to the likes of Mata and Kagawa further up the field where they are more dangerous. I haven't seen enough of Carvalho but is he the player who can create from deep i really think that is all that is missing to make us tick. For the rest of the season i would like to see the line up below.

I would like to see Young and Valencia sold in the summer and hold onto Nani and Hernandez. Wellbeck, Rooney, Hernandez, Nani, Mata, Kagawa, Janjuaz and Zaha is an unbelievable amount of firepower and any manager should be competing for a league title with that at his disposal.

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Rooney

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Wellbeck

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Mata

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Kagawa

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From what I've seen of Carvalho, he would not be the player to create from deep. Not yet anyway (He's still quite young). But he would be a very good addition to the team, in that he would strengthen the centre of the midfield and offer a lot more protection for our back line.
Really, if we want to be competing with the best again, we would need Carvalho and another, more attack minded, midfielder. Perhaps Kross or Gundogan. Hell, even someone like Lallana. He has the legs and is a forward thinking player. Probably not the long term answer, but certainly someone who would make us more mobile in the centre of the park until we find "the one".

DM_7

I think it would be silly to move on Young and Valencia. It's the premier league and Arsenal have proved that lovely football won't always get it done. Sometimes you are going to need a player like Valencia to provide width, hug the touchline and get the ball in the box when teams choke space in the middle.

They are also experienced in the league and if United lose Vidic, Evra, Rio and Giggs (possibly RVP) that is needed in the squad next season.

United need to sort midfield, that's obvious. It's also something that when done, will help some of the underperforming players improve their output so I don't think they should be written off.

Rayne Wooney

Nuts102 wrote: »

I would have some respect for Moyes if he sold RVP. He would be crucified but i think it would take balls and i think most can see we are better without him in the team. If he stays then him and Rooney should be rotated up front. It's obvious to see we are more creative with Mata and Kagawa both on the field.

He's a bit too valuable as a player to sell for cash though because I don't think we would get much at all, and even though part exchange deals are rare I think they should definitely test a few clubs.

Clubs like Roma who need a goal scorer or even Athletico if Costa is leaving have a few players we seem to be interested in and maybe something could be sorted out after the World Cup, hopefully he has a good tournament. Although Roma and Athletico probably wouldn't pay high enough for him to get his final huge payday so I don't know, maybe an American club could offer a decent amount for him.


It's mental we're talking about the player who fired us to a league win last season being sold but if it's best for the club it just has to happen. If he wanted to stay on as a rotation player it would be great.

keane2097

RVP is getting a bit too much of the blame here. Rooney at 10 has been the problem. Give RVP a chance with Mata and Kagawa off him and he would crush.

Hococop

Nuts102 wrote: »

I actually don't think we have the quality in midfield to supply the service to the likes of Mata and Kagawa further up the field where they are more dangerous. I haven't seen enough of Carvalho but is he the player who can create from deep i really think that is all that is missing to make us tick. For the rest of the season i would like to see the line up below.

I would like to see Young and Valencia sold in the summer and hold onto Nani and Hernandez. Wellbeck, Rooney, Hernandez, Nani, Mata, Kagawa, Janjuaz and Zaha is an unbelievable amount of firepower and any manager should be competing for a league title with that at his disposal.

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Rooney

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Wellbeck

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Mata

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Kagawa

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Just curious has anybody watched Zaha since he moved, he had a great first game but have heard nothing since

Rayne Wooney

keane2097 wrote: »

RVP is getting a bit too much of the blame here. Rooney at 10 has been the problem. Give RVP a chance with Mata and Kagawa off him and he would crush.

And bench the 300k a week player?

redbaron_99

http://giant.gfycat.com/JampackedEvergreenEskimodog.gif

Carvalho's goal from last night's game.

redbaron_99

Hococop wrote: »

Just curious has anybody watched Zaha since he moved, he had a great first game but have heard nothing since

Hasn't looked good at all. On the bench for a lot of games.

keane2097

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

And bench the 300k a week player?

Oh I'm not saying anything about what will or should happen just this idea that United's problems attacking were something today with RVP not being mobile enough are nonsense. The problem was entirely in the make up of the line behind him.

DM_7

keane2097 wrote: »

RVP is getting a bit too much of the blame here. Rooney at 10 has been the problem. Give RVP a chance with Mata and Kagawa off him and he would crush.

He would be great. But if the best team is picked Rooney is in it.

dahat

keane2097 wrote: »

RVP is getting a bit too much of the blame here. Rooney at 10 has been the problem. Give RVP a chance with Mata and Kagawa off him and he would crush.

In giving Rooney a 300k contract Moyes has indirectly chosen him over RVP imo. He looks a cert to leave imo and i did think this would happen at the start of the season.

Your Airbag

Anyone who thinks RVP should be sold really needs their head checked.

adox

Why would we want to sell any of out star players? There's a few to be shifted before RVP.

I honestly don't think we will get a consistent fluid attckaing line up under Moyes and his tactics so I think it is a little unfair to pick out players under the current structure.

A new manager would have a field day with the attacking and creative potential we have. Maybe 4 players coming in further back with the same leaving and we would have a squad to challenge again for the title.

Quandary

In the summer I hope we see the following players leave the club either through retirement or being sold

Rio
Evra
Giggs
Young
Cleverley(I think he needs a fresh start at another club. Things have rapidly gone downhill for him at Utd)
(Vidic should be here too but It just doesn't feel right :-( )

Valencia could be added to that list but he has his uses somewhere along the right hand side of the pitch when we are stuck.

My fear is that we'll see Kagawa and Nani leave while keeping Young, Cleverley and Valencia. This would be a big step in the wrong direction IMO.

On the whole RVP thing, I can see the merits to keeping him but there are equally good reasons to sell him when it means possibly getting the best out of the remaining attacking players. After what he did for us last season it would sting a bit to see him sold, but it could be an option that suits both the player himself and the team if that makes sense.

Lord TSC

I wouldn't mind the talk of selling RVP if I felt it was for the good of the team.

But honestly, I feel it's more cause people know Moyes hasn't a clue how to deploy our attacking lineup at 100% and, as per usual, talk about getting rid of he player rather than examine the larger issue

keane2097

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I wouldn't mind the talk of selling RVP if I felt it was for the good of the team.

But honestly, I feel it's more cause people know Moyes hasn't a clue how to deploy our attacking lineup at 100% and, as per usual, talk about getting rid of he player rather than examine the larger issue

Do you have any suggestions on how a United attacking line up at could be deployed at 100% with both Rooney and RVP in it?

redbaron_99

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

But honestly, I feel it's more cause people know Moyes hasn't a clue how to deploy our attacking lineup at 100% and, as per usual, talk about getting rid of he player rather than examine the larger issue

Do please tell us how to deploy our attacking line-up at 100%.