Who is responsible for the TV licence?

gubbie

My housemate owns a tv which she regularly watches in the common area. She doesn't have a tv licence. If the tv licence people come, am I liable for any fines? We have a joint lease.

kkelliher

gubbie wrote: »

My housemate owns a tv which she regularly watches in the common area. She doesn't have a tv licence. If the tv licence people come, am I liable for any fines? We have a joint lease.

The occupier is liable so yes you would both be liable on a joint lease

riclad

my experience is once ,you get cable tv,or paid sky tv,installed you,ll get a visit from the tv inspector.

MugMugs

Generally speaking and not condoning not having a licence they find it quite difficult to summons you when they don't have your name.

Yawns

riclad wrote: »

my experience is once ,you get cable tv,or paid sky tv,installed you,ll get a visit from the tv inspector.

Never had this experience at all ever.

gubbie

Balls... Thanks for the quick reply!

kkelliher

MugMugs wrote: »

Generally speaking and not condoning not having a licence they find it quite difficult to summons you when they don't have your name.

Its fairly easy foe them to get a name as all they need to do is knock on the door and demand identification ( the have a decent bit of power in this regard)

Tope

kkelliher wrote: »

Its fairly easy foe them to get a name as all they need to do is knock on the door and demand identification ( the have a decent bit of power in this regard)

What power? You can simply ignore the doorbell/close the door on them and there's not much they can do. I'm no expert but from what I gather they have very few powers at all, it's all scare-mongering. Here's an extract from an email my landlord sent all the tenants in my building when we had a few incidents of the license inspector calling around:

"You are not obliged to answer any of their questions or give your name. Unless the Gardaí attend with the inspector there is absolutely no legal obligation to give them your name.
Also they have no right of entry into a house or your studio unless they have a search warrant and are with Gardaí. The only way they can gain entry is if someone lets them in by buzzing them in with the intercom or by just opening the main hall door. If they are in the house you are within your rights to ask them to leave immediately."

Any letters addressed to "The Occupier" can be safely ignored too.

fussyonion

I don't understand why you'd want to NOT pay the licence. Just pay it if you watch telly ffs. You can't everything free.
This is directed at Tope, not OP.

Tope

I wasn't advocating not paying the TV license. I was only pointing out that the license inspector doesn't have "a decent bit of power" obliging you to give your name, as kkeliher suggested. Just correcting misinformation.

(I don't even have a TV).

greasepalm

what about other source of viewing,pc,ipad,iphone even radio ,they want money for everything.

Doom

I say don't pay any tax if you can get away with it...fcuk the government and its policies.
Taxing people into poverty is a bigger crime.

Doom

FFS, look at the Granny tax they're proposing! !

kkelliher

Tope wrote: »

I wasn't advocating not paying the TV license. I was only pointing out that the license inspector doesn't have "a decent bit of power" obliging you to give your name, as kkeliher suggested. Just correcting misinformation.

(I don't even have a TV).

I forgot landlords were the go to people on law.....

Maybe you should do a bit of research before you correct misinformation.

Section 146(3) of the Broadcasting Act 2009 outlines the power of inspectors who have nearly as much power as a guard except they cant break down the door.....

kkelliher

Kaizersoze81 wrote: »

They've very little actual powers as long as they don't have a name of a tenant.

I suppose no one pays an esb bill or utility bill? They can get a name from the suppliers. There is a big difference between the power they have and the power the use in enforcement

michael999999

Trust me, summonses will be issued!

Broadcasting Act 2009

Broadcasting Act 2009 wrote:

146.— (1) An issuing agent may appoint persons to be officers of the issuing agent for the purposes of this Part.


(2) A person appointed under subsection (1) shall, on his or her appointment be furnished by the issuing agent with a certificate of his or her appointment and when exercising a power conferred by subsection (3) shall, if requested by any person thereby affected, produce such certificate to that person for inspection.


(3) An officer of an issuing agent may enter at any reasonable time any premises or specified place for the purposes of ascertaining whether there is a television set there and a television licence is for the time being in force in respect of the premises or specified place authorising the keeping of a television set at the premises or specified place.


(4) An officer of an issuing agent may request any person on the premises or at the place where he or she finds a television set or evidence of such to produce the television licence for the time being in force in respect of the premises or specified place for inspection by the officer.

Looks like the inspectors can enter your home.

Thomas D

salonfire wrote: »

Looks like the inspectors can enter your home.

Not if you refuse.

Thomas D

kkelliher wrote: »

I suppose no one pays an esb bill or utility bill? They can get a name from the suppliers. There is a big difference between the power they have and the power the use in enforcement

It's an open broadcast, there are no suppliers typically.

loyatemu

greasepalm wrote: »

what about other source of viewing,pc,ipad,iphone even radio ,they want money for everything.

currently the license is only required for "broadcasting" equipment. So a TV, or a PC with TV tuner in it, or a Sky box are all covered, but a PC/Tablet that you only use for the RTE player is not. This is going to change soon though.

kkelliher

The question the op raised is not about the rights or wrongs of paying the licence it was if as a joint lease holder she i liable.

TireeTerror

Pay nothing. If anyone asks for your name at the door, just close it. You do not have to answer anything at all. You are under no legal obligation to speak at all. You have a right to remain silent. Dont let these bullies try and do it.

They tried it once in an apartment I was renting in Malahide a couple of years ago. My gf answered the door and I could hear him ask for her name, she asked who he was and he ranted off some drivel about there being no record of a tv licence being held at this address and he wanted to know if there was a tv there. She said its not her house and went to close the door. He then tried to bully his way in demanding her name, threatening to call the Gards if she didnt give her name as she had to. At this point I dragged myself away from Battlefield 3 and jumped right out the door at him, he got a shock because he must've assumed she was alone for some reason. I screamed right in his face that I withdrew his right to access my property and if he didnt leave the premises at once I would call the Gards on him for trespassing. He ranted again about having to supply a name, so I told him to "fcuk off" and jumped right in front of his face. He went away and never came back again.

These "agents" are a joke, they lie constantly about their so called powers. They have little power at all if you deal with the situation correctly. The way I did it was wrong, I was intimidating him, but I just wanted to get back to my clan match! Check out youtube for many examples of how to ignore these morons.

An Ri rua

Thomas D wrote: »

Not if you refuse.

There is scaremongering going on in this thread. A tv licence inspector DOES NOT have more power than a Garda and a Garda CAN NOT enter any home unless he believes a limited set of specific crimes are being committed. Non-possession of a tv licence is not one of them. The only way for a tv licence inspector to get access to a private dwelling where permission has been denied by an occupant, is via a warrant applied for through the courts.

For instance, if a Garda comes to your door and asks your name, he is entitled to be informed. If they ask ANYTHING else, they DO NOT have the right to know. You have less rights when you are behind the wheel of a car and the Garda has more right to have questions answered. But walking on the street, or at your home, no. You have many rights, and even a Garda has few. a TV licence inspector has few of the rights that are being touted here. The legislation quoted earlier must surely be with regards to non-domestic properties as not even a Garda can enter your home without serious and limited reason.

Another user here referred to tv licence visits happening after sign-ups for tv services / purchasing a tv/ other such interactions. Yes, that is the case. I sent to Setanta for a card (for my mother's Sky box, ahem) and I got a letter from the licencing authorities a few working days later. They were informed by email, as I do every year, that I do not watch live television, I only watch streamed content via IP, and until the broadcasting law changes, I do not require a TV licence. End of story. They accept that finality also. For 4 years now.

as with others here, I do not open the door to anyone unless I am expecting someone and have identified that I know who is there. I do not REACT to others' whims.

I don't get it.

The legislation clearly states:

(3) An officer of an issuing agent may enter at any reasonable time any premises or specified place for the purposes of ascertaining whether there is a television set there and a television licence is for the time being in force in respect of the premises or specified place authorising the keeping of a television set at the premises or specified place.

How can this say one thing yet others believe they cannot enter?

I am just trying to understand exactly what their powers are.

MugMugs

salonfire wrote: »

I don't get it.

The legislation clearly states:

(3) An officer of an issuing agent may enter at any reasonable time any premises or specified place for the purposes of ascertaining whether there is a television set there and a television licence is for the time being in force in respect of the premises or specified place authorising the keeping of a television set at the premises or specified place.

How can this say one thing yet others believe they cannot enter?

I am just trying to understand exactly what their powers are.

Source?

chris85

MugMugs wrote: »

Source?

Broadcasting Act 2009.

I am trying to understand how everyone is so adament they cant enter your premises when it is in law that they have that right. I dont like the TV licence but they do have the right to enter using this law.

MugMugs

chris85 wrote: »

Broadcasting Act 2009.

I am trying to understand how everyone is so adament they cant enter your premises when it is in law that they have that right. I dont like the TV licence but they do have the right to enter using this law.

But you see, whilst they are entitled to enter your property from the above. They can't enter your property

"TV Licence Please"

*Closes door*

They can't summons you without your name and I'm pretty sure they can't kick your front door down.

Penny Dreadful

TireeTerror wrote: »

Pay nothing. If anyone asks for your name at the door, just close it. You do not have to answer anything at all. You are under no legal obligation to speak at all. You have a right to remain silent. Dont let these bullies try and do it.

They tried it once in an apartment I was renting in Malahide a couple of years ago. My gf answered the door and I could hear him ask for her name, she asked who he was and he ranted off some drivel about there being no record of a tv licence being held at this address and he wanted to know if there was a tv there. She said its not her house and went to close the door. He then tried to bully his way in demanding her name, threatening to call the Gards if she didnt give her name as she had to. At this point I dragged myself away from Battlefield 3 and jumped right out the door at him, he got a shock because he must've assumed she was alone for some reason. I screamed right in his face that I withdrew his right to access my property and if he didnt leave the premises at once I would call the Gards on him for trespassing. He ranted again about having to supply a name, so I told him to "fcuk off" and jumped right in front of his face. He went away and never came back again.

These "agents" are a joke, they lie constantly about their so called powers. They have little power at all if you deal with the situation correctly. The way I did it was wrong, I was intimidating him, but I just wanted to get back to my clan match! Check out youtube for many examples of how to ignore these morons.

Wow! The man was trying to do his job. If you didn't have license you were breaking the law and totally in the wrong.

I don't understand why people have to be so aggressive:(

Want2know

Out of curiosity what would happen if you were to supply a incorrect name if a supposed tv inspector were to enquire about who was living in the premises?

Pawwed Rig

chris85 wrote: »

Broadcasting Act 2009.

I am trying to understand how everyone is so adament they cant enter your premises when it is in law that they have that right. I dont like the TV licence but they do have the right to enter using this law.

They can enter your premisis but cannot force their way in. They will only come in if invited.

OP, if you get any hassle just give your housemates name as owner and user of the TV. Other than that I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Don't answer the door if you don't know who is there. An unexpected caller is unlikely to be anyone you want to talk to.

MugMugs

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

Wow! The man was trying to do his job. If you didn't have license you were breaking the law and totally in the wrong.

I don't understand why people have to be so aggressive:(

It also appears that the man met this lady with agression and attempted to forcibly gain access to her residence.

Pawwed Rig

TireeTerror wrote: »

I screamed right in his face that I withdrew his right to access my property and if he didnt leave the premises at once I would call the Gards on him for trespassing.


Check out youtube for many examples of how to ignore these morons.

Sounds like freeman stuff tbh.

He has a right to call to your door and request entry. You cannot 'withdraw his right to access your property' as he has that right by law (quoted previously). You can certainly refuse him entry or ignore him etc.

An Ri rua wrote: »

a TV licence inspector has few of the rights that are being touted here. The legislation quoted earlier must surely be with regards to non-domestic properties as not even a Garda can enter your home without serious and limited reason.

They do have the right in a domestic house too. I doubt it would stand up to a constitutional challenge in the high court but noone has done that yet.

An Ri rua wrote: »

Another user here referred to tv licence visits happening after sign-ups for tv services / purchasing a tv/ other such interactions. Yes, that is the case. I sent to Setanta for a card (for my mother's Sky box, ahem) and I got a letter from the licencing authorities a few working days later. They were informed by email, as I do every year, that I do not watch live television, I only watch streamed content via IP, and until the broadcasting law changes, I do not require a TV licence. End of story. They accept that finality also. For 4 years now.

You seem to be relying on UK TV licence laws. The Irish laws are more far reaching so the live TV bit is irrelevant.

MammaZita

Doom wrote: »

FFS, look at the Granny tax they're proposing! !

They're not proposing any such thing. More scaremongering!!

Penny Dreadful

MugMugs wrote: »

It also appears that the man met this lady with agression and attempted to forcibly gain access to her residence.

I don't think that was the case. It would seem that the TV License man asked to see if there was a TV there - as he is entitled to and this was refused. He said he could get the Gardaí and at this stage the girls boyfriend left his playstation game to come to the door and he got aggressive and as he said himself, screamed in the man's face and was abusive in his language.
At no stage was it reported that the TV license man tried to physically force his way into the apartment.

shruikan2553

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

I don't think that was the case. It would seem that the TV License man asked to see if there was a TV there - as he is entitled to and this was refused. He said he could get the Gardaí and at this stage the girls boyfriend left his playstation game to come to the door and he got aggressive and as he said himself, screamed in the man's face and was abusive in his language.
At no stage was it reported that the TV license man tried to physically force his way into the apartment.

I bolded the parts for you. They are free to ask your name but that is all. After attempting the close the door and telling him to leave their property the TV licence inspector lied to them.

TireeTerror wrote: »

Pay nothing. If anyone asks for your name at the door, just close it. You do not have to answer anything at all. You are under no legal obligation to speak at all. You have a right to remain silent. Dont let these bullies try and do it.

They tried it once in an apartment I was renting in Malahide a couple of years ago. My gf answered the door and I could hear him ask for her name, she asked who he was and he ranted off some drivel about there being no record of a tv licence being held at this address and he wanted to know if there was a tv there. She said its not her house and went to close the door. He then tried to bully his way in demanding her name, threatening to call the Gards if she didnt give her name as she had to. At this point I dragged myself away from Battlefield 3 and jumped right out the door at him, he got a shock because he must've assumed she was alone for some reason. I screamed right in his face that I withdrew his right to access my property and if he didnt leave the premises at once I would call the Gards on him for trespassing. He ranted again about having to supply a name, so I told him to "fcuk off" and jumped right in front of his face. He went away and never came back again.

These "agents" are a joke, they lie constantly about their so called powers. They have little power at all if you deal with the situation correctly. The way I did it was wrong, I was intimidating him, but I just wanted to get back to my clan match! Check out youtube for many examples of how to ignore these morons.

Penny Dreadful

shruikan2553 wrote: »

I bolded the parts for you. They are free to ask your name but that is all. After attempting the close the door and telling him to leave their property the TV licence inspector lied to them.

Opinion as to whether the inspectors are lying about their powers.
The behaviour displayed by the inspector does not warrant the poster screaming in his face or using such offensive language IMO. It was an unnecessarily aggressive action.
In addition to this by virtue of not having a tv license they were in fact in the wrong and were breaking the law.

An Ri rua

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Sounds like freeman stuff tbh.

He has a right to call to your door and request entry. You cannot 'withdraw his right to access your property' as he has that right by law (quoted previously). You can certainly refuse him entry or ignore him etc.


They do have the right in a domestic house too. I doubt it would stand up to a constitutional challenge in the high court but noone has done that yet.


You seem to be relying on UK TV licence laws. The Irish laws are more far reaching so the live TV bit is irrelevant.

Nope, I've emailed the licencing office for 4 years in a row now stating my name and address and how I consume 'as live' tv and I am in the clear. No licence required under current law.

I do have an old large CRT that I convert VGA into for Netflix etc. But what's behind a curtain and a closed door harms no one. ps yes I agree with what the 2009 Act says is their right. But, as you point out, I believe that right is less than the right of the homeowner and yet to be tested in court.

Of course, we're all OT.

Nino Brown

Why, oh why do people answer the door? I just sit in my living room, and let people stare in the window at me if they like. No good has ever come from answering the door to unannounced people. They're either trying to sell me something I don't want, or to save me from hell. If it's friends or family, they'll call you.
I wouldn't mind paying if they'd just call it what it is, a tax, and take it from source. which is apparently coming in the form of the broadcasting charge. But I'm not paying for a service I don't use voluntarily.
How about I bill RTE E160 for mowing their lawns? It would be a service they didn't receive from me, so if they pay me, I'll pay my license fee.

Michael D Not Higgins

Nino Brown wrote: »

Why, oh why do people answer the door? I just sit in my living room, and let people stare in the window at me if they like. No good has ever come from answering the door to unannounced people. They're either trying to sell me something I don't want, or to save me from hell. If it's friends or family, they'll call you.
I wouldn't mind paying if they'd just call it what it is, a tax, and take it from source. which is apparently coming in the form of the broadcasting charge. But I'm not paying for a service I don't use voluntarily.
How about I bill RTE E160 for mowing their lawns? It would be a service they didn't receive from me, so if they pay me, I'll pay my license fee.

Moss: Like my Mum always says, you should never open the door.
Jen: What do you mean?
Moss: An unopened door is a happy door. So we never open ours when someone knocks.
Jen: What, so you’ll just sit there?
Moss: Yes.
Jen: So the doorbell goes, and you’ll just sit there until the person goes away?
Moss: Yes.
Jen: What if it’s important? What if it’s good news?
Moss: This is London, Jen. It’s not someone with cake. Unless that cake is made of dog poo and knives.

Kaizersoze81

Agree 100%. I never answer the door. If it's someone I know they'll call/text me in advance. The only people who call to doors are salesmen and Jehovah's witnesses and tv licence inspectors.

syklops

There is scaremongering going on in this thread.

It wouldn't be a real TV license thread without some scare mongering and misinformation.