Cancelling my Wedding Band - HELP!

Evil_Bilbo

Hey guys - I need some advice,

long story short - I'm getting married in 2 weeks. I booked a wedding band (who will remain nameless) about a year ago. I paid a deposit of €50. In January I went to see an awesome band, befriended the guys in the band - they agreed to play my wedding.

I have tried to cancel the original band for the past month (have left SEVERAL emails, texts, phone messages etc - all made to their contact details on their website). Eventually I track them down on facebook and message them, so they reply last night.

They are looking for "compensation for loss of earnings". I never signed anything, they have no terms and conditions on their website, I was NEVER made aware that I'd have to provide compensation - otherwise I NEVER would have cancelled them - after saving, bargain hunting and scrimping for over a year, to lose a big whack of money like this just at the final fence puts all the last years spartan living completely to waste.

I rang consumer help - they say I entered into a contract with them by paying a deposit and have to agree to their "policies" even though I still have no clue what these policies are.

I find this completely unfair and is a total downer - its really adding to the stress and tension 2 weeks before the big day.

Any advice or help or anything would be greatly appreciated

Thanks in advance

Bilbo

D3PO

I dont think they have an recourse if you never signed a contract with them. Its there fault for not demanding a proper deposit from or getting you to sign a contract that would discourage the type of attitute you have shown.


Whilst they may have to take it on the chin that doesnt me I dont find your behaviour morally repugnant.

Karma's a pain in the ass remember that.

noodler

Have to say, in agreement with D3PO above, it is absolutely awful that you booked them a full year ago and then try to cancel them two weeks before the event.


However, I'd question what legal standing they have without a written contract.

I guess there is a verbal contract (which could be backed up by FB posts, voicemails, texts etc).

Tails142

It is fairly common with wedding items like hotel, photographer, bands etc that if you cancel you pay compensation. Usually on a sliding scale like 50% if 3 months beforehand, 100% if within 4 weeks of booking etc.

It is a bit of a grey area though that you haven't signed a contract that you're aware of setting out these terms also that when you tried to contact to contact them earlier, they never responded.

Just remember that they probably turned down other bookings for your date so will be out of pocket

Evil_Bilbo

If you'd read my original post I tried to contact them using email, text, phone, and voice messages to give 6 weeks notice, which in anyone's book is not morally repugnant - even the hotel we're getting married in only have a 28 day period before the wedding after which you have to pay compensation.

And thus far it looks like it could be me "taking it on the chin" to the tune of 2 grand, which is basically paying people to do nothing. Its completely due to their own lack of professionalism that they chose to ignore my previous efforts to contact them for four solid weeks. I'm sure they would have picked up on my messages if I was trying to book them.

I would appreciate any actual legal advice people may have instead of spiritual karma-related nonsense.

subway

do you have records of all the contact attempts?
no contract signed? was there a verbal contract or discussion of cancellation etc?

worst case, id say you lose your deposit, that's what its for

Tails142

Evil_Bilbo wrote: »

If you'd read my original post I tried to contact them using email, text, phone, and voice messages to give 6 weeks notice, which in anyone's book is not morally repugnant - even the hotel we're getting married in only have a 28 day period before the wedding after which you have to pay compensation.

And thus far it looks like it could be me "taking it on the chin" to the tune of 2 grand, which is basically paying people to do nothing. Its completely due to their own lack of professionalism that they chose to ignore my previous efforts to contact them for four solid weeks. I'm sure they would have picked up on my messages if I was trying to book them.

I would appreciate any actual legal advice people may have instead of spiritual karma-related nonsense.

I know when we booked our wedding band they sent an email setting out their terms and we paid the deposit based on that. Did you get any email from them outlining their terms and how they handle cancellations?

noodler

Evil_Bilbo wrote: »

If you'd read my original post I tried to contact them using email, text, phone, and voice messages to give 6 weeks notice, which in anyone's book is not morally repugnant - even the hotel we're getting married in only have a 28 day period before the wedding after which you have to pay compensation.

And thus far it looks like it could be me "taking it on the chin" to the tune of 2 grand, which is basically paying people to do nothing. Its completely due to their own lack of professionalism that they chose to ignore my previous efforts to contact them for four solid weeks. I'm sure they would have picked up on my messages if I was trying to book them.

I would appreciate any actual legal advice people may have instead of spiritual karma-related nonsense.

You can't get legal advice on boards.ie FYI.

6 weeks notice after having them booked for a year is still very poor form.

Evil_Bilbo

I appreciate that they may be out of pocket over this, which I feel bad about, and have been extremely apologetic towards this band - normally I never mess anyone around like this - I appreciate this is their livelihood and they could maybe have picked up another wedding instead of mine, but why was I never made aware of any of this legal garbage until now?

I basically received a very curt, vaguely threatening email from the band leader 4 weeks after my original efforts to contact him.

Evil_Bilbo

Talis -

nope - all I got from them was a receipt for a €50 deposit. I checked and double checked everything relating to this band (website, emails etc) to make sure I would not have to pay a cancellation fee BEFORE I even asked the other guys if they would be available to play for us.

gafarrell

I can see where they are coming from looking for compensation. The chances are that the turned down a number of bookings for that night already.
You are the one that's changed your mind and why should the band be out of earnings because of that?

Evil_Bilbo

My point is we were never made aware that cancellation would incur a fee - EVER. There is no info anywhere suggesting this. If there was, we wouldnt have cancelled - simple as that.

Surely we are not the first couple to ever cancel on them? Why do they not have some terms and conditions in place? And why did they wait so long to get back to us?

subway

the only people who can answer those questions are the band.

i would suggest speaking to a solicitor, it wont cost much for 30 minutes of their time and then you will know for sure if you have to pay or not, you may even decide to ask them to send a letter to the band regarding the threatening email if warranted.

you will get 2 schools of thought here, as its just opinions.

i would agree you have no case to pay as a consumer, and the band, as a business, has a higher responsiiblity to have terms and conditions, contracts etc

muffler

Evil_Bilbo wrote: »

I appreciate that they may be out of pocket over this...........I appreciate this is their livelihood and they could maybe have picked up another wedding instead of mine.

That sums up the situation nicely. Im not being nasty here but you think its quite acceptable to pay a deposit of €50 a year ago and then just a few weeks before the big day you decide to cancel them and then expect to have to pay nothing more?

You are clutching at straws that arent even there. Bringing up issues such as terms and conditions a year after the booking illustrates this point. Why did you not ask to see the conditions of the contract in writing at the time?

You asked for legal advice and as stated that is not allowed here. You should try a solicitor.

Whether you like it or not you did enter into a contract. There was a mutual trust engagement with each party expecting the other to honour their end. I would strongly advise you to contact the guy you had been dealing with and see if you can arrange some sort of agreed settlement.

muffler

Evil_Bilbo wrote: »

And why did they wait so long to get back to us?

Thats a bit rich!

D3PO

I really cant believe you think the notice of cancellation you gve was sufficent OP.

Would be interesting to see what your attitude was if this new band you booked called you later today and cancelled. Its surprising how fast peoples attitudes change to suit their own needs.

as others have said no legal advice can be sought or given out here. The band messed up by not having you sign a contract but your attitude shows a lack of common decency unfortunatly not something that can be legislated for.

slimjimmc

gafarrell wrote: »

I can see where they are coming from looking for compensation. The chances are that the turned down a number of bookings for that night already.
You are the one that's changed your mind and why should the band be out of earnings because of that?

Agreed.
A verbal contract is still a binding contract, just one that's harder to prove the terms.

I actually find it amazing that the OP is complaining about not knowing their T&Cs. Surely you should have insisted on written terms before booking them or did you just blindly enter into a €2000 contract (possibly because you felt pressurised to have someone booked well in advance) ?

The OP feeling bad about them being out of pocket is not going to pay their bills

enda1

Wouldn't worry about it OP, if they'd double booked you, you can be sure they wouldn't be paying compensation. Two weeks is fair notice I think.

Evil_Bilbo

muffler -

Appreciate the bit on "not asking for legal advice" - didnt know that - ta!

The fact that we booked them a year ago is irrelevant. That was just us being prudent and booking things well in advance. It could have been 3 months ago, it makes absolutely no difference.

its not as if they were "being sound" by only charging me €50 deposit - if anything it is their fault for not charging more. Had I paid €200 deposit there is no way I would have considered throwing that away. Usually a deposit means you have entered an agreement and if that agreement is broken the deposit is kept.

They are a business - they dont have written policies in place about cancellation fees etc - it should be them that take the hit - I've had my life on hold saving for this wedding for 18 months - all to have an extra 2 grand debt lumped in at the last fence.

If they cancelled on me, the €50 would be refunded, and that would be that, but how would they "compensate" me for having no band at my wedding? Me forking out cash for them to essentially do nothing is a bit hard to swallow.

chuky_r_law

what would you think is a fair compensation then?

Evil_Bilbo

"pay their bills"??

They are a wedding band - incase you didnt know they charge ridiculously high prices for doing 2 hours work per night. One cancellation isnt going to have them out on the street. They are a business. Would you feel sorry for a car dealership if you changed your mind about buying a car? (maybe a bad example as this is a product, not a service)

What about a dentist? if you booked an appointment with them, and then cancelled - would you feel sorry about them missing out on your €100? What if you cancelled at the last minute as something important came up and you couldnt make it? What if they asked you for the full €100 even though they did nothing? Would you pay?

And what if the dentist cancelled on you? (even at the last minute) - how would they compensate you?

keysersoze0330

Evil_Bilbo wrote: »

muffler -

Appreciate the bit on "not asking for legal advice" - didnt know that - ta!

The fact that we booked them a year ago is irrelevant. That was just us being prudent and booking things well in advance. It could have been 3 months ago, it makes absolutely no difference.

its not as if they were "being sound" by only charging me €50 deposit - if anything it is their fault for not charging more. Had I paid €200 deposit there is no way I would have considered throwing that away. Usually a deposit means you have entered an agreement and if that agreement is broken the deposit is kept.

They are a business - they dont have written policies in place about cancellation fees etc - it should be them that take the hit - I've had my life on hold saving for this wedding for 18 months - all to have an extra 2 grand debt lumped in at the last fence.

If they cancelled on me, the €50 would be refunded, and that would be that, but how would they "compensate" me for having no band at my wedding? Me forking out cash for them to essentially do nothing is a bit hard to swallow.

Hardly at the last fence. Surely you were budgeting for the 2000 up until the 6 weeks (or whatever) ago. But, in saying that some compromise should be arranged.

Evil_Bilbo

what would you negative nellys think is fair notice then? 2 months? 6 months?

6 weeks is plenty in my book.

If I was posting over cancelling a private consultation with a doctor instead of a band I'm sure your tunes would soon be changed. They are both businesses.

Evil_Bilbo

keysersoze0330 wrote: »

Hardly at the last fence. Surely you were budgeting for the 2000 up until the 6 weeks (or whatever) ago. But, in saying that some compromise should be arranged.

Yes - but this is an EXTRA 2000 that I'll have to pay out on top of what I'm paying the other band - we dont have an extra 2000 built into our contingency plans

RangeR

Evil_Bilbo wrote: »

"What about a dentist? if you booked an appointment with them, and then cancelled - would you feel sorry about them missing out on your €100? What if you cancelled at the last minute as something important came up and you couldnt make it? What if they asked you for the full €100 even though they did nothing? Would you pay?

Actually, yes. If they insisted and it wasn't their fault that I cancelled. However, that's not relevant to your query. Just because it's a business, just because they are JUST a wedding band, doesn't take away from the fact that they budgeted for this money to come in. They are people too, with bills to pay.

And yes, if they cancelled on you at the last minute, you do have recourse. Would could sue or bring to court for "damages".

Evil_Bilbo wrote: »

Yes - but this is an EXTRA 2000 that I'll have to pay out on top of what I'm paying the other band - we dont have an extra 2000 built into our contingency plans

So that's the nub of the problem. Not that they want compensation, it's that you don't have the money to pay it, hence the lashing out at them. I understand that. Doesn't make it right, though.

keysersoze0330

Evil_Bilbo wrote: »

Yes - but this is an EXTRA 2000 that I'll have to pay out on top of what I'm paying the other band - we dont have an extra 2000 built into our contingency plans

Im not suggesting you give them 2000. That would be ridiculous. But surely you see they deserve something.

Hoppy90

There is a reason why deposits are in place. If they feel that the cancellation of their services requires more money than this initial deposit, than they should review how they conduct business. Not nice for them obviously but it is tough luck. You've cancelled their services and forfeited the money they felt was sufficient in initialing acquiring them.

I'd kindly inform them of this. If they tried to insist on receiving money they should review how they conduct business. (monthly installments, etc) Tough luck on them unfortunately.

RangeR

keysersoze0330 wrote: »

Im not suggesting you give them 2000. That would be ridiculous. But surely you see they deserve something.

Agreed. I would deem €500 fair but that's just me.

Dublinstiofán

Evil_Bilbo wrote: »

And thus far it looks like it could be me "taking it on the chin" to the tune of 2 grand, which is basically paying people to do nothing. Its completely due to their own lack of professionalism that they chose to ignore my previous efforts to contact them for four solid weeks. I'm sure they would have picked up on my messages if I was trying to book them.

Ha this is rich, blaming a band on their lack of professionalism when it was you who is trying to cancel them a month in advance without penalty. Also your not paying them for nothing, your paying them for taking your booking over a year in advance and ensuring they will be available for your special day. Your paying them for the hundreds of hours of rehearsals they have practised together to make sure every song is perfect. Your paying for YOUR Selection of the best band you could afford. Your paying for the €1000's they've spent on musical equipment making their sound right, that sound you were happy with when you heard them and booked them first. And your paying for the other enquiries they may have refused because your date was unavailable for the last 12 months.

Evil_Bilbo wrote: »

If they cancelled on me, the €50 would be refunded, and that would be that, but how would they "compensate" me for having no band at my wedding? Me forking out cash for them to essentially do nothing is a bit hard to swallow.

In my opinion judging by your responses this wouldn't be the case. If they cancelled on you a month before your big day you'd be seeking legal recourse stating you booked them a year in advance. But because it suits you the other way around isn't acceptable.

You should do the honorable thing and let them play and be paid in full.

Otherwise they are within their rights to take you to court to claim for loss of earnings and could potentially be awarded their full fee as well as compensation and you may have to pay their court costs as well as your own.

I hope you do the right thing.

keysersoze0330

RangeR wrote: »

Agreed. I would deem €500 fair but that's just me.

yes, was going to say 500-750 myself. 500 is fair

Fishyfreak

The Wedding Band's company only have themselves to blame for not having standard terms & conditions attached to each booking. It would literally take (a once off) 5 minutes to type up some bog standard conditions on an a4 sheet and get each client to fill out and sign when a deposit is handed over.

While the OP isn't covering themselves in glory, it's tough luck for the wedding band and a future lesson for them to get their house in order.

Seifer

Just saw this on the front page because I'm bored in work but it's insane the attitudes people have towards the OP.
It's like nobody understands what a deposit is. Unless he signed a contract agreeing to different terms then the deposit is the cancellation fee.

Maybe do seek legal advice OP but I doubt that's even necessary if you didn't sign anything.

Enjoy the big day!

Dublinstiofán

Hoppy90 wrote: »

There is a reason why deposits are in place. If they feel that the cancellation of their services requires more money than this initial deposit, than they should review how they conduct business. Not nice for them obviously but it is tough luck. You've cancelled their services and forfeited the money they felt was sufficient in initialing acquiring them.

I'd kindly inform them of this. If they tried to insist on receiving money they should review how they conduct business. (monthly installments, etc) Tough luck on them unfortunately.

Ha that's not the way it works and if this band are professionals they won't be fobbed off with €50 and good luck. From a case I witnessed before and if the bands terms and conditions are correct the OP can expect to be paying at least 50% of the original fee if settled out of court. Or the full fee, compensation and legal fees if settled through the courts provided they have his emails and they can prove the date of original agreement with him.

Change of mind is not a good legal basis for non payment, believe me!

muffler

Evil_Bilbo wrote: »

its not as if they were "being sound" by only charging me €50 deposit - if anything it is their fault for not charging more.

So they are to blame because they didnt take enough of a deposit

Evil_Bilbo wrote: »

all to have an extra 2 grand debt lumped in at the last fence.

Was this not your choice and your decision?

Evil_Bilbo wrote: »

what would you negative nellys think is fair notice then?

You arent really helping yourself with comments such as that.

Evil_Bilbo wrote: »

Yes - but this is an EXTRA 2000 that I'll have to pay out on top of what I'm paying the other band - we dont have an extra 2000 built into our contingency plans

The first band you booked didtnt put you in this position - you did that all by yourself.

slimjimmc

Evil_Bilbo wrote: »

The fact that we booked them a year ago is irrelevant. That was just us being prudent and booking things well in advance. It could have been 3 months ago, it makes absolutely no difference.

Do you ask what their terms and conditions were before you booked?
Did you ask them to put their terms in writing?
You can't put all the blame on them if you didn't ask.

The prudent thing would be to know the terms before you enter in to a contract to the value of €2000.

The best you can do now is negotiate a settlement, you don't want the hassle of dealing with it closer to your big day.

I'd agree €500-750 seems fair.

enda1

muffler wrote: »

The first band you booked didtnt put you in this position - you did that all by yourself.

OP thought that the €50 deposit was what would be the forfeit for cancelling the original band. It is the original band that is stating they want more money so putting them in this position - pulling it out of their hat. Chancers OP, wouldn't bother with them.

chuky_r_law

its up to them if they want to take if further. i'd imagine that if they are only charging €50 as a deposit then they are not very well organized at all and you probably have very little to worry about. maybe it will be a bit of a lesson for them in future to tighten up their terms and conditions

if you are worried about it being taken further then it might be best to try and sort it out now. as others have said here €500 might be enough to settle it. in fairness if they were booked to play in a pub the same night there is no way that they would be paid €2000 for the night. its just because they are playing a wedding that they can charge this

Red Nissan

It is standard practice with almost all services.

Most just don't want the hassle so won't do anything, the amount is small enough to find yourself in Small Claims for, so I'd offer to pay them, maybe they'll take a reduced rate.

It is all because people like the OP think they can chop and change at a whim that we have to have payment in full and in advance and so forth.

irish_goat

Would feel sorry for the band but if they don't check/answer their texts, calls or emails then it's hard to have much sympathy.

Kenny Logins

What is their policy on cancellations, and where is it written down? Why didn't they ask for a proper deposit, one that could be retained in the event of a cancellation, or is €50 enough?

Ash.J.Williams

Evil_Bilbo wrote: »

"pay their bills"??

They are a wedding band - incase you didnt know they charge ridiculously high prices for doing 2 hours work per night. One cancellation isnt going to have them out on the street. They are a business. Would you feel sorry for a car dealership if you changed your mind about buying a car? (maybe a bad example as this is a product, not a service)

What about a dentist? if you booked an appointment with them, and then cancelled - would you feel sorry about them missing out on your €100? What if you cancelled at the last minute as something important came up and you couldnt make it? What if they asked you for the full €100 even though they did nothing? Would you pay?

And what if the dentist cancelled on you? (even at the last minute) - how would they compensate you?

you haven't a clue what you're talking about

Stone Deaf 4evr

Evil_Bilbo wrote: »

"pay their bills"??

They are a wedding band - incase you didnt know they charge ridiculously high prices for doing 2 hours work per night. One cancellation isnt going to have them out on the street. They are a business. Would you feel sorry for a car dealership if you changed your mind about buying a car? (maybe a bad example as this is a product, not a service)

Sorry, I have to take issue here, as a former band member, you get a lot for your money, a gig isn't just a few hours playing tunes, depending on the venue, you have transport costs, you'll meet people who have special song requests etc. also, the setting up and taking down of equipment can often take over an hour each side. its not a case of 2 grand and everyone goes home with 500 notes in their pocket.

to the OP, cancelling that late is poor form, but the band aren't entirely blameless by not responding to your contact attempts in a timely manner. i.e. within 24 hours.


EDIT: ash beat me to it.

stargazer 68

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

to the OP, cancelling that late is poor form, but the band aren't entirely blameless by not responding to your contact attempts in a timely manner. i.e. within 24 hours.


EDIT: ash beat me to it.

But it wasn't 24 hours - they had 4 weeks to respond and didn't. If the OP was trying to contact them to book them would they be so lax in following up calls, emails, facebook, voice messages?

Boskowski

I think the OP gets a hard time here from the replies.
I think 6 weeks notice is sufficient and if they choose to ignore it then that's their problem.
Also I wouldn't give them more than the deposit which they already have.
Every business out there has to calculate with cancellations, it's part of being in business. Deposits and contracts is how you put a framework / contingency around that.
Any business that fails to put stuff regarding a substantial transaction into writing, takes an informal €50 as deposit and then ignores contact attempts I'd have very little sympathy for.
Screw them, they'll learn from that. If you feel morally obliged give them another €150.

D3PO

Seifer wrote: »

Just saw this on the front page because I'm bored in work but it's insane the attitudes people have towards the OP.
It's like nobody understands what a deposit is. Unless he signed a contract agreeing to different terms then the deposit is the cancellation fee.

Maybe do seek legal advice OP but I doubt that's even necessary if you didn't sign anything.

Enjoy the big day!

I think you need to reread the front page. Most people agree the band are without recourse due to their actions however that doesnt mean that attitude people are taking to expect somebody to behave in a reasonable manner is insane ....

Stone Deaf 4evr

Dovies wrote: »

But it wasn't 24 hours - they had 4 weeks to respond and didn't. If the OP was trying to contact them to book them would they be so lax in following up calls, emails, facebook, voice messages?

Try reading it again.

The band share the blame by not responding to the bookers emails.

goldenhoarde

OP You have booked a band that you were happy with and had no issue with UNTIL you heard a different band and went and booked them without making sure that the original band were properly cancelled.

As has been pointed out if they cancelled on you how would you feel?

You agreed 1 year ago to pay the fee agreed. As of now the band are out of pocket as a) they may have turned down work for a Friday night as you had them booked b) unlikely to be able to get a booking at this short notice.

My wedding band had a 50 euro deposit, didn't hear from them till a week before the wedding and true to their word turned up on the day and played a blinder!

If I was them I'd take you to the SCC (sorry even though its your big day!) because they have done nothing wrong, whereas you changed your mind and Booked a different band without properly cancelling the first one (be that as it may they were tardy replying but until you confirmed it was cancelled it was your responsibility).

Weddings are stressful enough without creating more for yourself.

SwdDub

Evil_Bilbo wrote: »

The fact that we booked them a year ago is irrelevant. That was just us being prudent and booking things well in advance. It could have been 3 months ago, it makes absolutely no difference.

Are the band not allowed be prudent also then?

If you don't have an "extra 2k" going spare then why would you go ahead and book another band without getting confirmation that the initial band was cancelled? It's not rocket science.

I'm fairly sure you'll be fine from a legal standpoint. I doubt they have much of a leg to stand on if you can show that you have been consistently trying to contact them for the last month. However what you did wasn't right in my book. Not all businesses are equal. Comparing a wedding band with private consultant to try and justify a late cancellation is like comparing apples and dinosaurs.

Long story short, you never should have booked the second band without absolutely 100% concluding matters with the first band and well you know it.

Howjoe1

What about having a battle of the Bands !!

Evil_Bilbo

DublinStiofan,

seriously man - cop on to yourself!

"do the right thing"??? Let them play? Are you mental? They are not really my favourite people at the moment as well you can imagine - actually the last people I would like at my wedding right now - imagine having them play? How could you enjoy their music knowing they are just there because they threatened to pursue you legally if you didnt let them play.

Also - It would mean cancelling the new band, starting this whole thing off again with them

Wise up.

WildCardDoW

Poor form from the OP, they have bills to pay and you've quite literally screwed them. I don't know if they have much to go on if there's no contract and you've paid a deposit but that doesn't mean that what you've done is in any way right. 6 weeks is farcical for wedding bands who are generally booked months in advance.
You were organized in booking them a year in advance, an entire year where they had to reject gigs for that date if they could prove that they had other attempted bookings in that time they could argue you caused them a loss of earnings.

The comments about their pricing is mean spirited as well, they practice, they sort out their transportation, they have instruments and equipment to maintain and purchase. It's not just the two hours on the night, it's the work leading up to the night that you have to count into this.

There's also the possibility that they've checked with a lawyer themselves and that's what the delay in replying was?