builder liability...sewerage pumped under house

goosepimply2

Hello,

I am looking for some advice please. We bought our new build house 8.5 years ago from the builder (who is still in business locally). We recently had drainage problems with our main bathroom (toilet, sink, shower and bath not draining) so after many hours of investigations the 3rd drainage company has diagnosed that the builder attached the main bathroom foul pipe to the radon sump (a box underneath the house devised to release gas into the air). In effect all sewerage and water from our main bathroom has been pumped under our house and into the foundations for the past 8 years.

I contacted the builder and he's not returning my calls. Homebond says they don't cover services. House insurance is sending out a loss adjuster to investigate.

My question is .... is the builder legally responsible for covering the cost of fixing this issue?

Any advice or suggestions would be welcome.

Many thanks.

Underpressure

itsirishfarmer

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/consumer_protection/consumer_complaints/where_to_complain_about_home_improvements.html

godtabh

goosepimply2 wrote: »

Hello,

I am looking for some advice please. We bought our new build house 8.5 years ago from the builder (who is still in business locally). We recently had drainage problems with our main bathroom (toilet, sink, shower and bath not draining) so after many hours of investigations the 3rd drainage company has diagnosed that the builder attached the main bathroom foul pipe to the radon sump (a box underneath the house devised to release gas into the air). In effect all sewerage and water from our main bathroom has been pumped under our house and into the foundations for the past 8 years.

I contacted the builder and he's not returning my calls. Homebond says they don't cover services. House insurance is sending out a loss adjuster to investigate.

My question is .... is the builder legally responsible for covering the cost of fixing this issue?

Any advice or suggestions would be welcome.

Many thanks.

Underpressure

From an engineering point of view if this was actually the case you would have found out about it a long time ago.

goosepimply2

what signs would there be do you think? damp? smell? cracks on the walls? there is nothing like that at the moment thankfully. the drain company are saying they are sure that this diagnosis is correct. I am engaging the services of a structural engineer for a more thorough report.

any ideas re builder's liability?

many thanks.

ford2600

goosepimply2 wrote: »

what signs would there be do you think? damp? smell? cracks on the walls? there is nothing like that at the moment thankfully. the drain company are saying they are sure that this diagnosis is correct. I am engaging the services of a structural engineer for a more thorough report.

any ideas re builder's liability?

many thanks.

They have done a CCTV survey of drains?

8 years of waste water, sewage etc pouring into foundations would surely have shown some signs by now.

Get good legal advice if your OP is correct. 8.5 years is a long time though.

Is builder operating as same entity now as built your house? Has he wound up old company and opened new one? Is he a sole trader? Who was your sale contract with?

A good engineer and maybe a good solicitor needed

notharrypotter

the 3rd drainage company has diagnosed

What did the first 2 say?

A good engineer and maybe a good solicitor needed

Agree with this especially the engineer bit.

Wheelnut

I think you should be suing the "third drainage company" for your money back. There is not enough room under your house for 8.5 years of wastewater, and if the toilet was going in there you would have smelled it within the first week.

goosepimply2

Wheelnut wrote: »

I think you should be suing the "third drainage company" for your money back. There is not enough room under your house for 8.5 years of wastewater, and if the toilet was going in there you would have smelled it within the first week.

The first drainage company gave up after an hour and said they'd be back the next day with more equipment but never showed up. The second company spent an hour but couldn't get access to the blockage and brought in the 3rd guy who carried out cctv survey and diagnosed the problem. No money has changed hands and he's preparing a report for the loss adjuster. He seems genuine.

Have you any suggestions as to what the problem might be wheelnut? The foul pipe definitely leads under the house and cctv shows that it stops abruptly.The pipe does not lead into any other aj/manhole on my property.

Thanks.

goosepimply2

ford2600 - the builder is still operating and is not a sole trader. he has recently received planning for a new estate. he is director of 17 companies so I'm am investigating whether the company which built my estate is still one of his operational companies. I hoped I could appeal to his better nature but will have to instigate legal proceedings if we cannot find an amicable resolution.

SuperS54

Many years ago our local "new" church found problems with the public toilet being completely blocked and no amount of plunging would unblock it. After several local "experts" poked and prodded they finally brought in an expert. Turns out when the church had been built about 6 years earlier the blanking cap had never been removed from the end of the sewer pipe where it fed into a septic tank! The public toilet had gotten little use which is why it took so long to back up.

Wheelnut

goosepimply2 wrote: »

Have you any suggestions as to what the problem might be wheelnut? The foul pipe definitely leads under the house and cctv shows that it stops abruptly.The pipe does not lead into any other aj/manhole on my property.

This is the legal thread so it is not the right place to diagnose the problem. Besides, you have given very little technical information that might help, For instance we don't even know if the house is two storey, single storey, detached or semi-detached.

(don't answer that here! )

goosepimply2

My initial question was - is the builder legally responsible for covering the cost of fixing this issue?

Victor

That doesn't sound right. While the water could drain away, you are talking about 8 years of solid matter - I don't think it would fit (depending on how many people were living there).

While the external manhole may indeed be connected to the radon sump, that doesn't mean the toilets are. They might be connected to a different sewer.

goosepimply2 wrote: »

My initial question was - is the builder legally responsible for covering the cost of fixing this issue?

That would depend on the contract.

Many construction contracts require patent (obvious) problems to be brought to the builder's attention within 1-2 years.

Latent (hidden) problems normally need to be raised within 6 years, although if it is a contract under seal, it may be 12 years.

You do need solicitor. And a drainage (typically civil) engineer.

nuac

1. There are time limits in all litigation.

2. when they kick in depends on various matters - latent and patent defects, contract and tort issues etc.

3. You need an engineers report as to what is actually under your house as against what should be.

4. You need to discuss with your solicitor

kkelliher

The statute of limitations on an unsealed contract is 6 years so you will struggle to tie anyone into a liability after 8.5 years. Talk to a solicitor is your only avenue of moving forward

Five Lamps

Radon sumps tend to be pretty small and have are vented externally. I can't see how 8 years of sewage could have ended up there without being visible and smellable. If it was going into a sub-floor area you's have definitely smelled it.

If this is recent, it's quite possible that you have a broken pipe with the foul water possibly flooding your radon sump system.

What did the other two plumbers conclude?

Wheelnut

Five Lamps wrote: »

What did the other two plumbers conclude?

See post 8.

Stavros Murphy

SuperS54 wrote: »

Many years ago our local "new" church found problems with the public toilet being completely blocked and no amount of plunging would unblock it. After several local "experts" poked and prodded they finally brought in an expert. Turns out when the church had been built about 6 years earlier the blanking cap had never been removed from the end of the sewer pipe where it fed into a septic tank! The public toilet had gotten little use which is why it took so long to back up.

We looked at an office block which had had a new lift installed three years previously. The lift shaft foundations were excavated and poured on the line of the main sewer outlet. The Sewer basically was intersected by the lift-shaft, and blanked off by it..the client asked what we thought was blocking their toilets, I said I believed someone had flushed a lift-shaft and it had got jammed in the pipes. It was a fair job re-routing the sewer around the lift-shaft, especially in a busy, operational office environment. So stranger things have happened.

Pat Mustard

goosepimply2 wrote: »

My question is .... is the builder legally responsible for covering the cost of fixing this issue?

That is a question that nobody here would be able to answer, without seeing an engineer's report, for starters.

goosepimply2 wrote: »

I contacted the builder and he's not returning my calls. Homebond says they don't cover services. House insurance is sending out a loss adjuster to investigate.

Homebond is telling you what it states that it doesn't cover. However, you may need a solicitor who has the backup of a good engineer to deal with Homebond, and to tell you if there is anything that it must cover. Builders ignoring phone calls: sounds familiar.

goosepimply2 wrote: »

Any advice or suggestions would be welcome.

Yes, if you even contemplate taking action at all, go to an experienced solicitor who does civil litigation work, and do it straight away. Whether or not you have an engineer on the job now, it is possible that a solicitor may advise you to instruct a litigation engineer, who can provide reports for litigation work and oral evidence for a court.

Some engineers that are out there may be fine at engineering work, but they may be very slow, and their reports may be poor for litigation purposes. Therefore, from the point of view of a civil action, a litigation engineer may be favoured, who can produce lucid evidence, whether written or oral. Even so, sometimes further specialists are also required, as previously suggested by other posters.

You could consider asking your solicitor if there is statute of limitations issue, to the effect that too much had passed for an action to succeed. You should consider making an appointment asap.

Although many people say that first consultation with a solicitor is free, it is possible that this may not be the case here. It is also very possible that the solicitor may ask you to pay for engineering reports yourself.

You should consider asking for an idea of costs.

mikom

goosepimply2 wrote: »

Hello,

I am looking for some advice please. We bought our new build house 8.5 years ago from the builder (who is still in business locally). We recently had drainage problems with our main bathroom (toilet, sink, shower and bath not draining) so after many hours of investigations the 3rd drainage company has diagnosed that the builder attached the main bathroom foul pipe to the radon sump (a box underneath the house devised to release gas into the air). In effect all sewerage and water from our main bathroom has been pumped under our house and into the foundations for the past 8 years.

I contacted the builder and he's not returning my calls. Homebond says they don't cover services. House insurance is sending out a loss adjuster to investigate.

My question is .... is the builder legally responsible for covering the cost of fixing this issue?

Any advice or suggestions would be welcome.

Many thanks.

Underpressure

Have you registered the radon sump with Phil Hogan?