draining peaty soils

two34

Hi all
im thinking about trying to drain some land I am after inheriting off an uncle, the land is very mixed with more wet than dry land. its predominantly peaty soils, that is nearly always waterlogged. the land needs serious renovations, the external drains were made 15 years ago and aren't in bad shape with the water about 2-3 foot below the land but all the internal drains are closed in with cattle ploughing through them. the plan is to clean these when the weather drys up a bit, ive my own 13 tonne hitachi so that isnt an issue. i was thinking of using some of those connacht agri pipes to try and drain some of the land but would like to know what peoples experience is with them. even though the water table is well below the land level the fields are still wet 10 foot from the drains in places. its either drainage or its forestry in my opinion as the land is practicaly producing nothing as is

any ideas or suggestions very welcome

bbam

From threads here and other places they seem to be the only sensible option for peaty ground.

Bactidiaryl

Plant it!

two34

id like to try and do something with it before planting, id hate to plant it without trying something as the land is costing me nothing like, wouldnt be planning on spending huge amounts of money do, i reckon that cleaning the internal drains could do a lot for it

joejobrien

Dont waste your time or money . Enquire about planting, would give you far greater return on your investment. Remember it will always be wet for ever and a day:eek:

whupdedo

Right, you could plant it, but if everyone that had land like this planted it we would have a hell of a lot of forestry around Ireland. I have similar land so here's what I do

I keep the rushes well sprayed and topped, less rushes means less moisture.

Try to keep internal drains open, around here we open drains and fill them with 6 inch clean stone and keep the drains close together (15 to 20 metres)

Clean drains around outside of the field at least every 3 years

Try and keep livestock off the land after 1St October and not back on till at least middle of April

mf240

Clean all the drains first and leave for a summer to see if it dries out, then put shores where it doesn't,

Nothing wrong with planting a few corners here and there that are too bad.

two34

when you say you put stone in internal drains im assuming u mean these to be shores, theres 30 acres in this so plenty of internal drains, plan would be to pull shores into some of these

Joe the Plumber

I used those Connacht agri pipes last year for for the first time on a field that I had given up hope on, have to say they are some job.

Put them around 15-20 meters apart into an open drain along the edge of the field, I couldn't believe the results.

Will be doing another field this year, the only question I have is do they last or clog up after a few years and leave you back at square one again?

two34

is there much water running through them now joetheplumber, in fairness nearly all land was dry this year with the good summer

ABlur

Hi Two, is your land peat say down to 3 foot or more or is there a clay/daub layer? You can check the existing open drains to see this. If theres daub then it would hold stone or gravel but if its all peat then stone shores wont be a success as the stones will sink.

two34

to be honest i dont know. parts of it have rock under the soil. others could be bottomless as such. i understand what your saying about the shores sinking as such, i think there is gravel under it in place but god knows how much

ABlur

two34 wrote: »

to be honest i dont know. parts of it have rock under the soil. others could be bottomless as such. i understand what your saying about the shores sinking as such, i think there is gravel under it in place but god knows how much

Have a look at this drainage article in this Teagasc publication, drainage approaches are dependent on soil and subsoil types. Its not a cheap job!:eek:

http://www.teagasc.ie/publications/2012/1594/TodaysFarm_NovDec2012.pdf

gozunda

Before getting anything done by the way of drainage, have the soil tested, peat soils are naturally deficient in many elements and are unsuitable for many uses. Throwing stuff at it doesn't necessarily correct the problem either as the soil type leads to permanent deficiency.

If the soil test is returned and looks like it might be manageable in terms of inputs then but only then take a look at the drainage. It is possible as another poster said that you have an impermeable layer beneath the peat or a naturally high water table (fed from outside your holding). Deap ploughing might help with an impermeable layer but obviously not rock.

Of interest what altitude is the land at? This will indicate what type of peat soil you have and also the type of use suited.

"Lowland bog" versus "blanket bog" will give you very different challenges.

reilig

Connacht agri pipes used here last august. Put in 5 to 6 meters apart and into an open drain. The bog was so wet in August that we could not get across it with the tractor and had to have a digger with wide pads to do the digging.

Great changes now. Plan on putting slurry out on it this weekend. It's very dry - even if we do have a week of downpours and it gets wet, it drys out again after 3 dry days.

Don't waste your time putting any stone into it - it will just sink in soft ground.

moy83

reilig wrote: »

Connacht agri pipes used here last august. Put in 5 to 6 meters apart and into an open drain. The bog was so wet in August that we could not get across it with the tractor and had to have a digger with wide pads to do the digging.

Great changes now. Plan on putting slurry out on it this weekend. It's very dry - even if we do have a week of downpours and it gets wet, it drys out again after 3 dry days.

Don't waste your time putting any stone into it - it will just sink in soft ground.

Great job satisfaction there reilig . Do you reckon its a job for life or would you be expecting to repleace the pipes in years to come ?
I bet you never got slurry out there this early before though

mf240

Rellig it's a credit to ya,

Would you not be nervous of damaging the flow of the pipes with the slurry tank?

reilig

moy83 wrote: »

Great job satisfaction there reilig . Do you reckon its a job for life or would you be expecting to repleace the pipes in years to come ?
I bet you never got slurry out there this early before though

Only ever gt slurry out on it with umbilical system in the past and 5ft tyres on the tractor. Don't know how long it will last. Iron would block it, but there is no appearance of iron at the pipe ends yet.

reilig

mf240 wrote: »

Rellig it's a credit to ya,

Would you not be nervous of damaging the flow of the pipes with the slurry tank?

The ground is solid. The pipes are 3 to 4 ft beneath the surface. the tanker will do no harm!

Mad4simmental

Did ye see the drain pipe cleaners on dd. Looks like a big hose with a jet on the end goes up the shore pipes and cleans them. Anyone use them or know sumone that has? It might get you a few more years out of shores.

two34

reilig wrote: »

Connacht agri pipes used here last august. Put in 5 to 6 meters apart and into an open drain. The bog was so wet in August that we could not get across it with the tractor and had to have a digger with wide pads to do the digging.

Great changes now. Plan on putting slurry out on it this weekend. It's very dry - even if we do have a week of downpours and it gets wet, it drys out again after 3 dry days.

Don't waste your time putting any stone into it - it will just sink in soft ground.

not being nosey now or anything but what did a drainage job like that cost per acre, ive my own machine so diesel is all its costing but id imagine puttin pipes in every 5 r 6 meters would be pricey

the land is relatively high but is somewhat of a basin between hills

two34

not being nosey r anything but what would a job like that cost per acre, ive my own machine so diesel is all itll b costing me.

the land isnt real low ground but is a sort of a basin between hills

reilig

€2.80 per meter + VAT to buy the pipe. €1 per meter to dig and backfill. Reseeding cost around €140 per acre all in.

If you have wet ground, you have to put the drains in every 5 or 6 meters or else you will end up with wet soft spots between the drains.

Doing an experiment at the moment where I'm stitching geotextile around ordinary 4" drainage pipe. Have 700 meters to put in during early April. It costs €1.40 per meter to produce and approx 50c per meter to lay and backfill because it only needs to be dug with a tile drain bucket as opposed to a 2ft bucket for the connacht agri pipes.

Joe the Plumber

two34 wrote: »

is there much water running through them now joetheplumber, in fairness nearly all land was dry this year with the good summer

Constant water coming out, it slowed down during the dry spell all right.

Definitely an improvement

Joe the Plumber

reilig wrote: »

Only ever gt slurry out on it with umbilical system in the past and 5ft tyres on the tractor. Don't know how long it will last. Iron would block it, but there is no appearance of iron at the pipe ends yet.

Reilig, what's the crack with the iron?

I have noticed brown at the ends of my pipes, is this an iron build up do you think,

If so will they block up eventually

two34

iron will block anything in my opinion over time joe,
did you plough that field after the drains were put in reilig, teagsc is always on about mixin peat topsoil with the subsoil to firm the soil, in my opinion that wont work if your bringing up the marl thats under most peat soil around here (north roscommon)

reilig

two34 wrote: »

iron will block anything in my opinion over time joe,
did you plough that field after the drains were put in reilig, teagsc is always on about mixin peat topsoil with the subsoil to firm the soil, in my opinion that wont work if your bringing up the marl thats under most peat soil around here (north roscommon)

No ploughing just went over it with land levelled. Digger had ground blackened anyway. Would not recommend mixing soil like that.

Those pics were taken last September. It has thickened up since then. Hoping to feed it well with fertilizer and get 3 cuts of silage off it this year. Sheep have been on it over winter. It has been constantly growing.

two34

ya i wouldnt agree with mixin the soil either, there wouldnr be much growing power in marl in my opinion but thats teagsc for ya. peat doesnt really compact either so i dont see a huge need to plough it maybe just a quick run with a disker or power harrow would leave it easier to level any bumps or hollows in the land

Milton09

Mad4simmental wrote: »

Did ye see the drain pipe cleaners on dd. Looks like a big hose with a jet on the end goes up the shore pipes and cleans them. Anyone use them or know sumone that has? It might get you a few more years out of shores.

Lad up the road from us has one, plans on going contracting with it, watched him try it out on his own drains last week, master job, drains that had been trickling were running nearly full bore after he ran the cleaner on them.

Mad4simmental

Milton09 wrote: »

Lad up the road from us has one, plans on going contracting with it,

They look interesting, maby a run of one every few years might get allot longer life from them. It would have to be a cheep anof rate to.

Milton09

Mad4simmental wrote: »

Milton09 wrote: »

Lad up the road from us has one, plans on going contracting with it,

They look interesting, maby a run of one every few years might get allot longer life from them. It would have to be a cheep anof rate to.

Yes, I'd say every 2 years would be a good job. I asked about pricing but he isn't sure how to charge yet - by hour or by meter.
He did make the point though that replacing the drains could cost up to 9 euro per meter when you take the necessary re-seeding into account.
Not sure what I'd be prepared to pay to get it done.

GrandSoftDay

Could you jet the Connaght Agri pipes if they were to get blocked over time lads?