Black card loopholes.

theoneeyedman

I've seen and heard a few instances over the weekend and over the last few weeks where the new black card rules are being interpreted in a certain manner. There was examples in the mayo Kerry and Dublin Cork games where there were cynical fouls. No black cards ensued tho apparently because the person fouled wasn't pulled to the ground. ( people fouling in Dublin Cork escapes me but Andy Moran was the guilty party in second game).
So what do ye think. Is this a fair interpretation of the rules or a cynical manipulation?

keane2097

theoneeyedman wrote: »

I've seen and heard a few instances over the weekend and over the last few weeks where the new black card rules are being interpreted in a certain manner. There was examples in the mayo Kerry and Dublin Cork games where there were cynical fouls. No black cards ensued tho apparently because the person fouled wasn't pulled to the ground. ( people fouling in Dublin Cork escapes me but Andy Moran was the guilty party in second game).
So what do ye think. Is this a fair interpretation of the rules or a cynical manipulation?

It's the correct decision relative to what the rule is but that's not to say the rule is perfect. That aspect of it certainly needs to be changed.

Pulling a guy's jersey is a cynical enough and obvious enough offence to be a cut and dry black card without the "to the ground" part being tacked on.

Not sure why the rule was written to protect guys who "only pull the jersey a small bit" or whatever. There's no grey areas with jersey pulling, it's conscious and deliberate cheating, get rid of it.

bruschi

keane2097 wrote: »

It's the correct decision relative to what the rule is but that's not to say the rule is perfect. That aspect of it certainly needs to be changed.

Pulling a guy's jersey is a cynical enough and obvious enough offence to be a cut and dry black card without the "to the ground" part being tacked on.

Not sure why the rule was written to protect guys who "only pull the jersey a small bit" or whatever. There's no grey areas with jersey pulling, it's conscious and deliberate cheating, get rid of it.

I disagree slightly here to be honest. If you are tackling someone, and in a physical game, there are times when you will grab their jersey. Now, maybe just me, but I wouldnt consider that as cynical or deliberate as someone pulling a jersey to stop an opponent gettign a ball, or if it is a last gasp lunge, and you have no way of stopping him other than by grabbing his jersey.

Some jersey pulling is lazy tackling, but other jersey pulling is cynical and obstructive.

keane2097

bruschi wrote: »

I disagree slightly here to be honest. If you are tackling someone, and in a physical game, there are times when you will grab their jersey. Now, maybe just me, but I wouldnt consider that as cynical or deliberate as someone pulling a jersey to stop an opponent gettign a ball, or if it is a last gasp lunge, and you have no way of stopping him other than by grabbing his jersey.

Some jersey pulling is lazy tackling, but other jersey pulling is cynical and obstructive.

Really? Not convinced about that at all tbh. Maybe as you're trying to get a hand on the ball a bit of jersey will get dragged around naturally, but actually getting a fist full of someone's jersey is never anything other than against the rules - it's inherently a deliberate attempt to gain an advantage outside the rules.

There are grey areas with something like the body check rule, where you can conceivably be trying to make a genuine tackle and mistime it or get caught out and end up body checking a player, getting a fistful of someone's jersey into your grip is not something someone can ever argue they've done in a genuine attempt to defend legitimately.

CrabRevolution

There are 5 black card offences, but i've seen or heard at least 20 different things being called black card offences.

The 3 physical ones are deliberately dragging a man down, deliberately tripping a man, and deliberately colliding with a player who is after offloading the ball to take him out of play.

Dragging a jersey is in no way, shape, or form a black card offence. Neither is a clumsy tackle that happens to knock a lad off his feet.

slingerz

CrabRevolution wrote: »

There are 5 black card offences, but i've seen or heard at least 20 different things being called black card offences.

The 3 physical ones are deliberately dragging a man down, deliberately tripping a man, and deliberately colliding with a player who is after offloading the ball to take him out of play.

Dragging a jersey is in no way, shape, or form a black card offence. Neither is a clumsy tackle that happens to knock a lad off his feet.

Regrettably, at club level, there are referees that are unable to enforce these rules. Or indeed interpret them in the right way.

bruschi

keane2097 wrote: »

Really? Not convinced about that at all tbh. Maybe as you're trying to get a hand on the ball a bit of jersey will get dragged around naturally, but actually getting a fist full of someone's jersey is never anything other than against the rules - it's inherently a deliberate attempt to gain an advantage outside the rules.

There are grey areas with something like the body check rule, where you can conceivably be trying to make a genuine tackle and mistime it or get caught out and end up body checking a player, getting a fistful of someone's jersey into your grip is not something someone can ever argue they've done in a genuine attempt to defend legitimately.

I still think its a grey area to be honest. and the other points below it where you can body check trying to make a geniune tackle does not make it a black card. As pointed out, its the deliberate nature of the offence which causes a black card.

I do think a deliberate pulling back of a jersey to stop an opponent getting away should be a black card, and if the player falls to the gorund then it falls under the dragging a player down scenario.