Heat pumps and Heat Recovery

mapboy

Hi all.

I am getting ready to start first fixing but I have a few things still to decide on.
I am putting UFH upstairs and downstairs.Being heated by a heat pump and also
a solid fuel stove consisting of a boiler which will heat the buffer tank.

I had my mind made up on a ground source heat pump with horizontal collector.
But the more research I do I am beginning to think that the air to water might be an easier option.It is also a few grand cheaper overall.The air to water seem to have come a long in the last few years.

Has anyone any advice on this ??

I am hoping to achieve a high BER rating for the house.So I will have to install some sort of ventilation system.To be honest I am not really keen on the HRV system.
First of all it is expensive.It also uses constant electricity which is another cost.The unit itself takes up a lot of space unless it is fitted in the the attic.

Has anybody installed any other system or could you recommend any??

galwaytt

mapboy wrote: »

Hi all.

I am getting ready to start first fixing but I have a few things still to decide on.
I am putting UFH upstairs and downstairs.Being heated by a heat pump and also
a solid fuel stove consisting of a boiler which will heat the buffer tank.

I had my mind made up on a ground source heat pump with horizontal collector.
But the more research I do I am beginning to think that the air to water might be an easier option.It is also a few grand cheaper overall.The air to water seem to have come a long in the last few years.

Has anyone any advice on this ??

I am hoping to achieve a high BER rating for the house.So I will have to install some sort of ventilation system.To be honest I am not really keen on the HRV system.
First of all it is expensive.It also uses constant electricity which is another cost.The unit itself takes up a lot of space unless it is fitted in the the attic.

Has anybody installed any other system or could you recommend any??

I originally planned for deep bore GSHP in my build. But a colleagues issues put me off - problems with sinking the actual bore - but ultimately the cost. I couldn't see any return on the capital, running or servicing costs. The more efficient your fabric, the more difficult it becomes too justify big M&E capital spends, not less. ...

MHRV ?
It's not that expensive, but true is not exactly free either. .... uses a tiny amount of electricity -€1 a week ?

You will need space for it, but see other current thread on why not to put it in the attic. ..

baby fish

MHRV running cost
Electricity and don't forget the FILTERS have to be changed.

They usually say once a year but if you have look at them its probably better to change them every 6months.

The min cost to run MHRV for a year I'd estimate to be about 200 euro (based on 2 filter changes + electricity) ,

Curious Geroge

At the same point as OP but I should note, air to water heat pump and hrv won't meet the 2011 regs, hrv can be replaced by old fashioned wall vents and it will get a high ber but negates the whole heat pump and air tightness. I have a post in the ber section here but my assessor has taken this to seai re the deap software and they are aware; no plans to update the software.

mapboy

I think old fashioned wall vents is out of the question.But there are other forms of ventilation out there.
George,what heat pump did you go with in the end??

sydthebeat

Very interesting article in the latest edition of passive house+ which makes the argument that natural ventilation may not work anywhere near acceptable in low energy air tight homes.

Curious Geroge

mapboy wrote: »

I think old fashioned wall vents is out of the question.But there are other forms of ventilation out there.
George,what heat pump did you go with in the end??

Haven't pulled the trigger yet but I do agree wall vents make no sense if you pump monies into airtightness but seai own update the DEAP and the BER guys couldn't find a way around this.

As for HP, gets very costly once you include the extra cost of HRV so trying to find out which systems have a combi unit with both heating and ventilation.

Curious Geroge

sydthebeat wrote: »

Very interesting article in the latest edition of passive house+ which makes the argument that natural ventilation may not work anywhere near acceptable in low energy air tight homes.

Would anyone every have recommended them ? Is everyone using hrv now or trickle vents in windows ?

sydthebeat

Curious Geroge wrote: »

Would anyone every have recommended them ? Is everyone using hrv now or trickle vents in windows ?

Trickle vents in Windows is still natural ventilatIon.

Superdaddy

Does anybody know what the story is with the "breathable window"? I have been considering this. It seems like a perfect solution. Albeit very new. It would have to come with a very serious guarantee.
Here's a bit copied from the website, it's an irish based company known for passive houses.

Game-changing ventilation technology for low energy houses. Saves €500/annum in a 200m2 house, paying for itself in 4 years. Available Feb 2014.

World's most efficient HRV (heat recovery ventilation).
No ducts anymore.
No filters anymore.
Fans automatically speed-up or slow-down depending on indoor air quality.
95% lower running costs than always on ducted HRV.
50% lower ventilation heat losses than ducted HRV, only occupied areas are ventilated.
4 year payback compared with 40 years for a ducted system.
CO2, Humidity monitors and automatic balancing fitted as standard.
Fits discreetly into the external wall creating zones within the house with external air quality.
4.2W/l/sec fan consumption puts it on top of the SAP list.
Very quiet - 25dB @50m3/hr and 30dB @100m3/hr.
Uses the world's best fine-wire heat exchanger, it's 15 times more efficient than a plate heat exchanger.
The fans constantly adjust to maintain equal airflows through the heat exchanger improving efficiency by 10%.
The smart siphon system automatically dumps condensation water externally without freezing.

mapboy

Superdaddy wrote: »

Does anybody know what the story is with the "breathable window"? I have been considering this. It seems like a perfect solution. Albeit very new. It would have to come with a very serious guarantee.
Here's a bit copied from the website, it's an irish based company known for passive houses.

I have heard of a similar idea. Not too sure it's the same. Pm me the website and I will check it out.

murphaph

Curious Geroge wrote: »

As for HP, gets very costly once you include the extra cost of HRV so trying to find out which systems have a combi unit with both heating and ventilation.

<snip>

Curious Geroge

<snip>

thanks.. I had looked at this before and couldn't source a suppliers, just got one online now in galway. Is there many of these combi hp and ventilation units available ?

BryanF

Superdaddy wrote: »

Does anybody know what the story is with the "breathable window"? I have been considering this. It seems like a perfect solution. Albeit very new. It would have to come with a very serious guarantee.
Here's a bit copied from the website, it's an irish based company known for passive houses.

No CE certification

glashanator

Superdaddy wrote: »

Does anybody know what the story is with the "breathable window"? I have been considering this. It seems like a perfect solution. Albeit very new. It would have to come with a very serious guarantee.
Here's a bit copied from the website, it's an irish based company known for passive houses.

I emailed about this.... and although they're website says Feb 2014, the email I received said it would It wouldn't be available til June.

wilmul80

I am at same stage of build and have decided on lunos ventilation system based on engineers recommendation. worth a look

baby fish

wilmul80 wrote: »

I am at same stage of build and have decided on lunos ventilation system based on engineers recommendation. worth a look

How many extract points vents will you have?
How many air inlets will you have?

Have you looked into other DCV systems but consider Lunos the most suitable for you? why did you decide to go with it?

wilmul80

Ill have 3 extract points ?
Each room has its own vent which are driven by the mechanical ones in bathroom s and utility.
I also have 2 hr vents in main Living area
I did not look in any other to be honest.
Hope that answers your questions

MOTM

Curious Geroge wrote: »

Haven't pulled the trigger yet but I do agree wall vents make no sense if you pump monies into airtightness but seai own update the DEAP and the BER guys couldn't find a way around this.

As for HP, gets very costly once you include the extra cost of HRV so trying to find out which systems have a combi unit with both heating and ventilation.

Was the gist of the issue in DEAP you've mentioned not to do with difficulty meeting TGD L renewables requirement in a low energy house? Would that not have to change in TGD L before changing in DEAP?

baby fish

wilmul80, thanks for your reply

wilmul80 wrote: »

Ill have 3 extract points

If I go with Lunos I will have 3 extracts too, 2 humidity sensitive (in bathrooms)and one manual boost ( in ensuite).... How many humidity sensitive will you have?

wilmul80 wrote: »

I also have 2 hr vents in main Living area.

I wasn't going to use these but now that you mention it maybe its a good idea. Have you one of these in the kitchen? I planned on using a cooker hood extractor in the kitchen. Where are the HR fans located in your house?

wilmul80 wrote: »

I did not look in any other to be honest.
.

The other main DCV supplier is Aereco if you haven't heard of them... At the moment I'm leaning a little more towards Lunos as being most suitable for me

wilmul80

Ill have 3 also 1 in main bathroom down stairs that is connected to utility re clothes drying. 1in main bath upstairs and 1 servicing 2 ensuites .I think this one is manual . I didn't hear of that other company to be honest. I put the hrvs in the kitchen living room as it will be thr most used .it is cheaper to fit system during blocklaying .just a tip if you decide to go with it