is it alright to date an ex esl student?

dontpanic

a few students will be leaving my class for a higher level so yesterday I was invited out for some last day drinks. myself and another teacher went. Hours later it ended up being just me, a student and his two housemates.

I knew he had a crush on me in class but tbh I'm usually too busy teaching to notice. Well last night we really really hit it off, wine flowing, laughter - a lot of laughter - and we ended up kissing.

Teachers don't have real power in esl e.g. grades etc. and they just get a novelty printed cert at the end.

What are the rules with dating in esl?

sitstill

How old is the student?

dontpanic

we're both adults of course, mid twenties to be precise.

2011abc

Work away boss!You have our blessing.

dontpanic

is it frowned upon though? will I get fired if it somehow gets back to my boss?

does anyone have experience with this?

Thanks

RealJohn

What's esl?

2011abc

English as a Second Language -Like T/EFL . For adults in private schools -not traditional schools/students .

2011abc

dontpanic wrote: »

is it frowned upon though? will I get fired if it somehow gets back to my boss?

does anyone have experience with this?

Thanks

Why not just ask your boss?

hfallada

I cant see anything wrong with it since you are both adults and the fact he is no longer your student. Its similar to the way doctors or lawyers no longer take a person as their client so they cant date.

moc moc a moc

dontpanic wrote: »

is it frowned upon though? will I get fired if it somehow gets back to my boss?

If I ran an ESL school, I would take an extremely dim view of teachers becoming romantically involved with students, even graduates. Whether you like it or not, you represent the school during any time you spend with students, even on your own time.

If you proceed, you accept the risk that being found out could end your career (it's not exactly a huge industry - if you get fired from your current school, word will get around to other schools). It's up to you to decide whether a fling with someone who's most likely here only on a temporary basis is worth that.

whiteandlight

moc moc a moc wrote: »

If I ran an ESL school, I would take an extremely dim view of teachers becoming romantically involved with students, even graduates. Whether you like it or not, you represent the school during any time you spend with students, even on your own time.

If you proceed, you accept the risk that being found out could end your career (it's not exactly a huge industry - if you get fired from your current school, word will get around to other schools). It's up to you to decide whether a fling with someone who's most likely here only on a temporary basis is worth that.

Ya to be honest I could not imagine dating an ex student and I have been in adult education-I just never saw the students in that light ever. I definitely wouldn't proceed without talking to your boss or at least your colleagues.

dontpanic

It's not something I'll be advertising...so I won't be talking to my boss or colleagues about it.

Tbh I think esl is a little different in terms of seeing students a certain way... schools encourage you to get to know them and socialise with them in the pub for instance. it's hard not to see them as real people when your outside of the classroom context

whiteandlight

It could cause more problems if its discovered and you haven't been open and honest about it. Its possible there is even a school policy regarding it?

dontpanic

There's no contract. I'm self employed. In fact in other contracted schools I've never seen it mentioned in any guidelines. The dos is never around...it takes weeks to organise a meeting and I wouldn't even know how to say it!!

evolving_doors

How long is the student here for? Like if they went back to their country would you follow them? This thing could end tomorrow...

If ye are both consenting adults and she essentially has no ' business' connection with you then you could be grand...depends on the boss though..co. Workers could get snipy too over silly things like being allocated large bad class groups and you might always seem to get small nice groups..you never know so just in case keep everything outside the premises and also avoid company socials with teacher/students..

dontpanic

End tomorrow? We've barely even started it was just a kiss and he asked me on a date so this why I'm unsure. I have no idea how long this will last. As I said we only hit it off last night. He has one more month left in the school, different teacher. And don't worry...we all have packed classes!

seavill

So he is still in the school just you are not teaching him?

Very dodgy grounds I would say, adults or not

byhookorbycrook

If he is still in the school, then absolutely not.

smallgarden

I see no issue with it. If you were a driving instructor and asked someone you taught to drive out there'd be no issue. You're both adults. It'd be different if it was a secondary school

RH149

I'd say its the same as a 3rd level student dating a college lecturer or tutor.....all adults, even 1st year students are generally over 18, but whether its against the rules or not its generally frowned upon. I remember lots of gossip in college about students and tutors who often were PhD students so not much older than the undergrads but still in a 'teacher' role........


Would not want to be the focus of that kind of gossip myself.

whiteandlight

Thats what I would be worried about and I really would have to advise you to at least float it with a colleague OP

evolving_doors

RH149 wrote: »

I'd say its the same as a 3rd level student dating a college lecturer or tutor.....all adults, even 1st year students are generally over 18, but whether its against the rules or not its generally frowned upon. I remember lots of gossip in college about students and tutors who often were PhD students so not much older than the undergrads but still in a 'teacher' role........

Would not want to be the focus of that kind of gossip myself.

Although there is the assumption above that one party is being taken advantage of because the other is what ?....older? They're both adults...

Maybe the one party is being taken advantage of, because the other is... more qualified!

If two people find 'true love'...should it be denied because of business interests...

Everybody's adults here, who is taking offence? How could you take offence on behalf of somebody who doesn't exist?

Although in saying all that, if yer boss takes offence then your job is on the line.

whiteandlight

I was just chatting about this to my OH and I think the issue here is that, yes they are graduating but they literally finished class the day you kissed them. If there had been any kind of reasonable period, then I don't think there would have been any cause for concern particularly in ESL but it was less than 24 hours after finishing teaching them?

evolving_doors

Musicmental85 wrote: »

I was just chatting about this to my OH and I think the issue here is that, yes they are graduating but they literally finished class the day you kissed them. If there had been any kind of reasonable period, then I don't think there would have been any cause for concern particularly in ESL but it was less than 24 hours after finishing teaching them?

Ah yes but what if this couple are destined to be together... why should they wait ! They are both adults... Maybe then there shouldnt be any socialising with the students allowed , but there is so it would seem the company condone socialising. And dont forget the company or students or staff have no problems with both parties consuming a drug (alcohol) at these get togethers...

I did see it happening in college alright...did get an icky feeling about it and it probably was frowned upon but hey... So what..everyone is supposed to be an adult in university.its not a crime and you can't discipline someone for falling in love with another adult!

whiteandlight

True but equally if its true love taking a chill for a week even wouldn't harm it

dontpanic

I see what you mean it being so soon after but I honestly did not expect or want to hit it off with anyone, it just happened and it seemed like a now or never moment.

cookiecakes

I'm an esl teacher and my school takes a dim view of teachers copping off with students. Two of my colleagues have married ex-students though! In recent years, it's been made known to us that it's not on. If you're not sure, float the idea in the staff room and see if anyone has any stories or ask a colleague you trust. Usually someone will know if it's cool or not!

evolving_doors

cookiecakes wrote: »

I'm an esl teacher and my school takes a dim view of teachers copping off with students. Two of my colleagues have married ex-students though! In recent years, it's been made known to us that it's not on. If you're not sure, float the idea in the staff room and see if anyone has any stories or ask a colleague you trust. Usually someone will know if it's cool or not!

What... true love is 'not on'... I think the clincher here with the op is that this is the first and only time its happened.From my point if view its all legal...but if it happened a second time with another student !!!

Op do what your heart desires...but keep your cards close...for at least a year.

dontpanic

cookiecakes wrote: »

I'm an esl teacher and my school takes a dim view of teachers copping off with students. Two of my colleagues have married ex-students though! In recent years, it's been made known to us that it's not on. If you're not sure, float the idea in the staff room and see if anyone has any stories or ask a colleague you trust. Usually someone will know if it's cool or not!

and does your school organise social night's out? Most schools I've worked in in Dublin have organised student social nights/ festive period parties and teachers have been strongly encouraged to attend and mingle and drink with the students.

I don't think a colleague will know the answer because I think the boundaries in general are unclear. Schools want you to spend your free time getting to know students in an informal setting, but are apparently surprised if you have a genuine rapport.

I've met so many wonderful and inspirational students that I get on with. just last week I went to lunch with two ex-students (both female as am I), this evening I got a facebook email from four students (couples) I taught last summer asking me round to their place for drinks and Venezuelan food, when I bump into students on the street I'm greeted with a smile, a hug and a kiss on the cheek....are these interactions frowned upon as well?

Should I ask all these wonderful people to feck off because I once taught them English and a friendship isn't on? and if a friendship is alright then why isn't a romantic relationship alright since the students have transitioned from the teacher's professional life into his/her personal life?

(p.s. not having a go, just looking for a bit of debate)

Boober Fraggle

It sounds like you have made up your mind and want people to back that decision up.

Doesn't matter what anyone here thinks though, they would not be in the firing line if your boss is not happy about it.

seavill

Boober Fraggle wrote: »

It sounds like you have made up your mind and want people to back that decision up.

Doesn't matter what anyone here thinks though, they would not be in the firing line if your boss is not happy about it.

Both points exactly what I was thinking especially the first

dontpanic

no i was genuinely looking for a bit of debate.

I've texted him back anyway, explained that I wasn't sure if there was a policy and told him that we should at least wait a month for him to finish...so I have until then to decide what I think.

cookiecakes

dontpanic wrote: »

and does your school organise social night's out? Most schools I've worked in in Dublin have organised student social nights/ festive period parties and teachers have been strongly encouraged to attend and mingle and drink with the students.

I don't think a colleague will know the answer because I think the boundaries in general are unclear. Schools want you to spend your free time getting to know students in an informal setting, but are apparently surprised if you have a genuine rapport.

I've met so many wonderful and inspirational students that I get on with. just last week I went to lunch with two ex-students (both female as am I), this evening I got a facebook email from four students (couples) I taught last summer asking me round to their place for drinks and Venezuelan food, when I bump into students on the street I'm greeted with a smile, a hug and a kiss on the cheek....are these interactions frowned upon as well?

Should I ask all these wonderful people to feck off because I once taught them English and a friendship isn't on? and if a friendship is alright then why isn't a romantic relationship alright since the students have transitioned from the teacher's professional life into his/her personal life?

(p.s. not having a go, just looking for a bit of debate)

Friendships are not frowned upon. However, romantic engagements with students who are still in the school most definitely are. They just don't think it presents a professional image. No-one really argues with it. Their school, their rules.

And yes, our school does organize student nights out and of course, lots of teachers are friends with ex-students but there is an obvious difference between having a bit of craic with a student and wearing the chops off one. I'm not even looking for debate, just telling you the rules in my esl school!

But I think Boober Fraggle is right. You seem to have an idea in your mind and that's cool. Check your handbook and see if there's anything in that. If not, just plead ignorance if it's raised as an issue!

dontpanic

I get that because he's still in the school it's a bit of a conflict of interest and that we should at least wait! but what about after he's finished? what's the deal then? is it ok? not ok? frowned upon?

I'm a by the books girl so this is new for me.

moc moc a moc

dontpanic wrote: »

It's not something I'll be advertising...so I won't be talking to my boss or colleagues about it.

But other students will know, and it could get back to the school this way, particularly if some colleagues socialise with the same student.

dontpanic wrote: »

Most schools I've worked in in Dublin have organised student social nights/ festive period parties and teachers have been strongly encouraged to attend and mingle and drink with the students.

That's a group social event; it's not the same as hooking up with an individual student.

dontpanic wrote: »

asking me round to their place for drinks and Venezuelan food, when I bump into students on the street I'm greeted with a smile, a hug and a kiss on the cheek....are these interactions frowned upon as well?

Again, these are social interactions, not romantic. A romantic involvement is different, and you know this already (otherwise you wouldn't have started this thread in the first place).

Someone above has mentioned that you seem to already have an idea in your mind of what you want and are trying to argue towards that, and I agree. Bottom line: you're the only one who will potentially be negatively affected in any serious way, so you have to be honest with yourself about the risks and decide what you want more: a romantic engagement or job security.

Personal opinion, if you're interested:

I sure as hell wouldn't risk my career over a fling.

jocmilt

dontpanic wrote: »

we're both adults of course, mid twenties to be precise.

'Mid twenties' isn't 'precise'. You know that, right?

MouseTail

dontpanic wrote: »

I get that because he's still in the school it's a bit of a conflict of interest and that we should at least wait! but what about after he's finished? what's the deal then? is it ok? not ok? frowned upon?

I'm a by the books girl so this is new for me.

A bit of a conflict? It is entirely inappropriate, I cannot believe a professional educator would think otherwise. You have stepped over a very clear professional boundary with this guy.

dontpanic

jocmilt wrote: »

'Mid twenties' isn't 'precise'. You know that, right?

What's your point? Or are you just drawing attention to semantics to feel better about yourself?

dontpanic

if I'm being honest all of these negative opinions are totally turning me off the idea and I sort of wish I hadn't asked. I have already asked him to keep it quiet and I just have to get through the next month and hope to god there will be no rumours.

Can I just say for the record, I'm only human. I got caught up in a whirlwind moment whilst my judgement was under the influence of a few glasses.

evolving_doors

jocmilt wrote: »

'Mid twenties' isn't 'precise'. You know that, right?

Mid means half way .. i.e. the middle no?

Anyhow, check with yer boss because if there is no policy then there obviously needs to be... It would be interesting to see how this would be worded in a policy! Anyone have any experience how its written? Or does it just ' go without saying'.

MouseTail

dontpanic wrote: »

Can I just say for the record, I'm only human. I got caught up in a whirlwind moment whilst my judgement was under the influence of a few glasses.

If you cannot maintain professional boundaries when you drink, don't drink with current pupils in your school. Education, even when tutoring adults is a totally different ballgame to other professions. Your students are not your colleagues, friends or love interests.
I really hope you have learned a lesson here.

However, I think the school is on dodgy ground encouraging socialising with students where drink is involved. Whatever about teachers as cultural hosts, there should be guidelines around professionalism being maintained at all times. Should disciplinary action be brought against you, the lack of such guidelines could prove mitigating for you.

Keep your head down, no more contact with the student in question, and fingers crossed it doesn't get out.

whiteandlight

Hang on, when you said he was leaving your class for a higher level I assumed he was leaving to go onto a higher level of education-not that he is still in the school.

If he is still in your school I think this is definitely a dreadful idea and the fact that you have already kissed is an issue. I have to agree with moustail, keep your head down and do nothing until at least he is out of the school. Otherwise I would imagine that most management would take a very dim view of the situation.

ElleEm

dontpanic wrote: »

It's not something I'll be advertising...so I won't be talking to my boss or colleagues about it.

This would imply that you know what you did was wrong.

dontpanic wrote: »

if I'm being honest all of these negative opinions are totally turning me off the idea and I sort of wish I hadn't asked. I have already asked him to keep it quiet and I just have to get through the next month and hope to god there will be no rumours.

This is something you cannot control. It could really damage your reputation as a serious teacher. It could diminish your authority, as students may hear that you are available to them in a sexual way.

I completely agree with Mousetail on this. I cannot believe that someone in authority (and you are in authority, despite your first post about exams etc.) would query the blurring of boundaries as you have.

You should contact this guy, apologise for overstepping your boundaries and do not speak with him outside of class again.

IrishExpat

Have taught now in multiple academies here in Madrid, long and short contracts - and it's generally a 'don't ask, don't tell' situation.

That said, current students (in your class) would be dodgy territory.

Once out of the academy - & both consenting adults - there should be no problem (aside from gossip, I would imagine).

I don't see why not.. It's not an abuse of power as the most important qualifications to be gained are external. It's not like you can go and give him an 8.5 in the ielts.

dontpanic

Just an update (should future readers search this thread - might save the opening of a new one) - I have the answer.

An organic opportunity arose today for me to ask about it and as far as the DOS is concerned; teachers and students are all adults, so, as long as it doesn't interfere with the job it's none of her business. The teachers who were in the room agreed.

I'd imagine each individual school has their own opinion.

I've had time to reflect on it and I have come to the personal decision that while it might be *unprofessional*, it isn't *unethical*. I really believe that tefl is a different ball game in terms of "power" and "authority".

Having said that I still haven't been on a date with said student...

seavill

dontpanic wrote: »

Just an update (should future readers search this thread - might save the opening of a new one) - I have the answer.

An organic opportunity arose today for me to ask about it and as far as the DOS is concerned; teachers and students are all adults, so, as long as it doesn't interfere with the job it's none of her business. The teachers who were in the room agreed.

I'd imagine each individual school has their own opinion.

I've had time to reflect on it and I have come to the personal decision that while it might be *unprofessional*, it isn't *unethical*. I really believe that tefl is a different ball game in terms of "power" and "authority".

Having said that I still haven't been on a date with said student...

Yes

evolving_doors

dontpanic wrote: »

Just an update (should future readers search this thread - might save the opening of a new one) - I have the answer.

An organic opportunity arose today for me to ask about it and as far as the DOS is concerned; teachers and students are all adults, so, as long as it doesn't interfere with the job it's none of her business. The teachers who were in the room agreed.

I'd imagine each individual school has their own opinion.

I've had time to reflect on it and I have come to the personal decision that while it might be *unprofessional*, it isn't *unethical*. I really believe that tefl is a different ball game in terms of "power" and "authority".

Having said that I still haven't been on a date with said student...

Huzzah true love is now free to flourish!
You've gone off him now op haven't you!

dontpanic

haha, no I haven't exactly gone off him, it's just all this thinking about it has sort of put a lot of pressure on it from my point of view.

seaville I know it's unprofessional...but the entire world of tefl is unprofessional...I've been screwed over shafted conned (?:D) by more schools than I care to remember.

seavill

dontpanic wrote: »

haha, no I haven't exactly gone off him, it's just all this thinking about it has sort of put a lot of pressure on it from my point of view.

seaville I know it's unprofessional...but the entire world of tefl is unprofessional...I've been screwed over shafted conned (?:D) by more schools than I care to remember.

That's nothing special in tefl schools that's most schools to new teachers.

Two rights and all that

Oink

I wish you all the best, but you need to seriously consider your exit strategy. If things go south and he turns out to be a complete a-hole who wants to give you as much grief as possible, what's the plan then considering you're in the same school?