cycleways cup March 2nd

lennymc

Anyone know what time this starts at?

I think last year was 10 am sign on but 12.30 start.
How many laps for A3?

edit - just found out from someone that its 12.30 start with a 12.10 roll out from sign on location

Mugser

Info here: http://navanroadclub.ie/2014/02/21/cycleways-cup-march-2nd-2014/

lennymc

Thanks Mugser.

Plastik

Rain, rain and a little bit more rain in Navan this morning.

buffalo

Plastik wrote: »

Rain, rain and a little bit more rain in Navan this morning.

Sitting in the car, and very glad to have an excuse not to be on the bike. Pissing down.

Few boardsies about, said hello to the esteemed wav1.

lennymc

rain, wind, hills, speed, juniors. it was hard. Dropped on the climb, finished one lap and hopped into the car!! first race of the year done (Kind of). Racing is hard! hahaha.

pprendeville

buffalo wrote: »

Sitting in the car, and very glad to have an excuse not to be on the bike. Pissing down.

Few boardsies about, said hello to the esteemed wav1.

What's the excuse? Haven't seen u post too many rides on Strava recently.

XtotheZ

can anyone enlighten me as to what happened to the break? Commissarire on the phone and took the wrong turn i heard?

XtotheZ

in the a3 race...

Plastik

No idea what happened. But it was bizarre when the comms came rolling up the bunch to tell us there was no break up the road.

duffyshuffle

Must have been a serious pace in the A3, lots coming back to the A4s. Got up and over ok both laps with the front bunch, then punctured with 18km to go or so, disaster. Fair difference in difficulty between this track and traders cup last week! Fair play to blanch wheelies, plenty left in the front bunch at the end.

GMCI

XtotheZ wrote: »

can anyone enlighten me as to what happened to the break? Commissarire on the phone and took the wrong turn i heard?

The Commissaire is the official behind the riders. It was a lead car that took a wrong turn I heard.

Lusk_Doyle

pprendeville wrote: »

What's the excuse? Haven't seen u post too many rides on Strava recently.

He's midway through his Robocop sex change. Bandages and slings everywhere. Vicious mood swings too.

XtotheZ

GMCI wrote: »

The Commissaire is the official behind the riders. It was a lead car that took a wrong turn I heard.

I was just ahead of the bunch when the comm came up to me and another lad but i didnt hear him. Gutted considering I was riding so strongly and was really turning screws on the climb. Thats racing

smurphy29

First A3 race for me and nice to get the season up and running. Big fan of this circuit. Was at the head of the bunch behind the junior-infested breakaway on the first climb and watched them gradually get further and further away. Can't imagine there would have been any catching them and there was no real organised chase to do so in any case, but apparently they were sent the wrong way. Made a bit of a botch of the second climb but got over ok and was in place to contest the sprint. Probably wasn't aggressive enough (I was certain it was going to end in a crash) in the lead up to get in a decent position but snuck up the left hand side of the road and was ready to open up when some Lucan lad sat up in front of me, and that was that. Top 20 probably, season up and running, finished upright. Next!

Word had it that the break was dropped back on to the circuit a good few minutes behind but the majority worked to get back on and one or two even made the prizes in the sprint. All in all, it looks like the rest of us mere mortals will have our work cut out to get any sort of points this year! Maybe they can send them the wrong way every week?

Well done to everyone, bit of a crazy race, and not without some serious hardhsip.

bwalsh1983

A3 break were 2 mins up the road, TWO lead cars took wrong turn and break ended up being brought back to 5 mins down on main bunch. They caught again and some did get in prizes but some didnt and for that reason it sounds like a bit of a joke.

buffalo

pprendeville wrote: »

What's the excuse? Haven't seen u post too many rides on Strava recently.

I've been hired as a soigneur by one of Orwell's novice women.

Inquitus

Tough Course, I didn't realise it, and did 100 hard enough km on the Sat and had no legs on the Sun, promptly got dropped at the top of the hill first time round and couldn't get back on, not sure I would have made it all the way round even without Saturday's efforts, anyways what doesn't kill you makes you stronger! Got a good workout from the 44km I did do, as we worked hard in the Grupetto on the way back to the club house. One of the other Swords lads had the club car keys so I spent an hour shivering and miserable waiting for them to finish, but one of them snagged 4th and got his upgrade so worth it in the end.

Onwards to Newbridge next week!

smurphy29

bwalsh1983 wrote: »

A3 break were 2 mins up the road, TWO lead cars took wrong turn and break ended up being brought back to 5 mins down on main bunch. They caught again and some did get in prizes but some didnt and for that reason it sounds like a bit of a joke.

Indeed. Before the sprint I was thinking 'if I do place here it would be about the flukiest CI points ever handed out.' That's not to discredit anyone who placed! Well done etc., but it was pretty apparent the breakaway was not going to be caught.

I noticed on strava that the time up the climb on the second lap was over a minute slower than on the first lap - the appetite for hardship obviously just isn't the same when everyone is resigned to the break having won the day. Then, when the comissaire told us there was 'no break up the road' as well as leaving everyone scratching their heads, it was a case of 'Holy moly lads, the race is back on! Let's ride!'

Also, I know the timing of the feed is a contentious topic, but could they not have at least brought out one tray of sandwiches for the ladies, whose race finished the guts of two hours before the A1/2 race. It's a long time to be hanging around waiting to get the protein filled hang sangwidges in.

QueensGael

Thanks to the organisers, drivers, marshals and volunteers - great (but tough!) race, delighted to see the turnout for the women's race. I did manage to get some hang sanggiches after our race, so no complaints here

ragazzo

Inquitus wrote: »

Tough Course, I didn't realise it, and did 100 hard enough km on the Sat and had no legs on the Sun, promptly got dropped at the top of the hill first time round and couldn't get back on, not sure I would have made it all the way round even without Saturday's efforts, anyways what doesn't kill you makes you stronger! Got a good workout from the 44km I did do, as we worked hard in the Grupetto on the way back to the club house. One of the other Swords lads had the club car keys so I spent an hour shivering and miserable waiting for them to finish, but one of them snagged 4th and got his upgrade so worth it in the end.

Onwards to Newbridge next week!

Very interesting. Some lads (in the Mick Lally thread) poured scorn on the A4 race distance of 42 kilometres in Summerhill on Saturday.
It's way too short... Not worth getting out of bed for... I will go to Navan and race twice that distance... is what some wrote.

Would the above report negate some of those comments? Let the legs do the typing!

buffalo

QueensGael wrote: »

Thanks to the organisers, drivers, marshals and volunteers - great (but tough!) race, delighted to see the turnout for the women's race. I did manage to get some hang sanggiches after our race, so no complaints here

I think you got in before the barricades went up. :P

Inquitus

ragazzo wrote: »

Very interesting. Some lads (in the Mick Lally thread) poured scorn on the A4 race distance of 42 kilometres in Summerhill on Saturday.
It's way too short... Not worth getting out of bed for... I will go to Navan and race twice that distance... is what some wrote.

Would the above report negate some of those comments? Let the legs do the typing!

No the mistake I made was doing 100km on Sat, and then attempting to race 84km on Sun, that said I did the same last week and placed 8th, there were no hills though.

42km is too short to get out of bed for tbh, what with the travel, the wife etc. and I wouldn't bother if I had the same choice tomorrow. Plus only the first 3 places give 3,2,1 points when its that short, which is a further disincentive, when >50km race pays 8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1

ragazzo

Inquitus wrote: »

No the mistake I made was doing 100km on Sat, and then attempting to race 84km on Sun, that said I did the same last week and placed 8th, there were no hills though.

42km is too short to get out of bed for tbh, what with the travel, the wife etc. and I wouldn't bother if I had the same choice tomorrow. Plus only the first 3 places give 3,2,1 points when its that short, which is a further disincentive, when >50km race pays 8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1

The point is that A4 is a category for beginners and there has to be a mix of races and distances to suit those novices.

For somebody to complain about races being too short or easy etc it must mean that harder or longer races would suit their perceived ability. This does not always translate to results when the ideal race appears. There is usually a bucket full of plausible excuses that any ego bashed cyclist can dip into in order to explain this unexplainable and difficult to understand scenario. It is always refreshing to hear a rider state 'I was not strong enough today. Some of those lads are flying. No excuses.. Fair dues to those who placed'.

On the points issue... It is necessary to finish the race to have a chance of picking up points regardless of distance or parcours.
You are probably right though, that training spin on Saturday was your downfall. There are lessons to learn every day.

C3PO

ragazzo wrote: »

For somebody to complain about races being too short or easy etc it must mean that harder or longer races would suit their perceived ability.

I don't think that is necessarily the case at all! There is no fear of me ever placing, never mind winning an A4 race but I still wouldn't be bothered entering one that was only 42kms long! It just isn't worth the hassle of organising "planning permission", packing, travelling etc for just over an hour on the bike! I usually enter 5-6 A4 races a year and they are always the longer ones - it just feels like you're getting better "bang for your buck"!!

ragazzo

C3PO wrote: »

I don't think that is necessarily the case at all! There is no fear of me ever placing, never mind winning an A4 race but I still wouldn't be bothered entering one that was only 42kms long! It just isn't worth the hassle of organising "planning permission", packing, travelling etc for just over an hour on the bike! I usually enter 5-6 A4 races a year and they are always the longer ones - it just feels like you're getting better "bang for your buck"!!

By your own admission you will never place in a race. Therefore you are obviously not worried about CI points and upgrading.
Also, from your post it would seem that you finish and enjoy the longer A4 races.

Your situation is completely different to many A4 riders who complain about races being too short, flat, easy etc. Apart from these riders not having the opportunity to display their undoubted talent and win these longer, harder races and being able to justify their absence from home to the war office, they also state that they would not bother with shorter races due to the allocation of points to only the first 3 placed riders.

Sometimes it is necessary to view the full picture or indeed understand the full post.

Plastik

Are photos posted anywhere yet of this day of wetness?

Lusk_Doyle

Plastik wrote: »

Are photos posted anywhere yet of this day of wetness?

Yes but they are only of the first three riders and not worth getting out of bed for!

Harrybelafonte

C3PO wrote: »

I don't think that is necessarily the case at all! There is no fear of me ever placing, never mind winning an A4 race but I still wouldn't be bothered entering one that was only 42kms long! It just isn't worth the hassle of organising "planning permission", packing, travelling etc for just over an hour on the bike! I usually enter 5-6 A4 races a year and they are always the longer ones - it just feels like you're getting better "bang for your buck"!!

5-6 races a year? You spend €125 on the licence. I don't think bang for your buck is the issue.

It's still an hour of hard training.

lennymc

ragazzo wrote: »

By your own admission you will never place in a race. Therefore you are obviously not worried about CI points and upgrading.
Also, from your post it would seem that you finish and enjoy the longer A4 races.

Your situation is completely different to many A4 riders who complain about races being too short, flat, easy etc. Apart from these riders not having the opportunity to display their undoubted talent and win these longer, harder races and being able to justify their absence from home to the war office, they also state that they would not bother with shorter races due to the allocation of points to only the first 3 placed riders.

Sometimes it is necessary to view the full picture or indeed understand the full post.

I think you are quoting a number of different riders from different threads.

Anyway, if a rider thinks 42km is too short so what. Surely that's their business?

Harrybelafonte

lennymc wrote: »

I think you are quoting a number of different riders from different threads.

Anyway, if a rider thinks 42km is too short so what. Surely that's their business?

I know you're not referencing me, but...

I could be wrong but the posters have a tendency to dismiss shorter races as pointless. It's their decision not to race it but I think the logic of attacking the race is unsound. If you don't want to do the race fine, but don't blame the race. I'd expect the same reaction to anyone who came on complaining that races are too long and hilly. Like me!

By not attending a race and claiming it too short, the implication is that it's too easy. If it's that easy, go and win it.

Aodho

ragazzo wrote: »

By your own admission you will never place in a race. Therefore you are obviously not worried about CI points and upgrading.
Also, from your post it would seem that you finish and enjoy the longer A4 races.

Your situation is completely different to many A4 riders who complain about races being too short, flat, easy etc. Apart from these riders not having the opportunity to display their undoubted talent and win these longer, harder races and being able to justify their absence from home to the war office, they also state that they would not bother with shorter races due to the allocation of points to only the first 3 placed riders.

Sometimes it is necessary to view the full picture or indeed understand the full post.

Jaysus I'd say you're a joy to have a open-minded debate with

lennymc

I read it as "it's an awful lot of hassle for me to get out for a race given that I have family and other commitments, and if I was going to go to do a race I would rather do a race that is likely to take me longer than an hour or so, and if I get dropped, or dont finish, so be it"

Races are too long and hilly. they should be flat with some banking and not longer than 4k.

ragazzo

lennymc wrote: »

I think you are quoting a number of different riders from different threads.

Anyway, if a rider thinks 42km is too short so what. Surely that's their business?

Answering one and quoting another, Lenny.
Of course an individuals views are their own business. But when one posts their own business on an internet forum it is an invitation for others to read. Surely posters can comment and discuss the topics or information on this forum if it is in relation to cycling.

Is that not what boards.ie likes posters to do?

Inquitus

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

By not attending a race and claiming it too short, the implication is that it's too easy. If it's that easy, go and win it.

That's not true, being short doesn't make it easy, and no one had said that. But for the hassle required to get out to a bike race, for some folk its not worth it for just an hour on the bike - the pass from the missus, the expense of getting there and back, the time it takes to get there and back, the €15 entry fee, and all for a race that's over in an hour, and also if you are in the hunt for an upgrade gives no points of note. It has nothing to do with the difficulty, its just a cost benefit issue, too much effort for not enough cycling in my opinion.

ragazzo

Aodho wrote: »

Jaysus I'd say you're a joy to have a open-minded debate with

Sure maybe someday we will have one!

Harrybelafonte

Inquitus wrote: »

That's not true, being short doesn't make it easy, and no one had said that. But for the hassle required to get out to a bike race, for some folk its not worth it for just an hour on the bike - the pass from the missus, the expense of getting there and back, the time it takes to get there and back, the €15 entry fee, and all for a race that's over in an hour, and also if you are in the hunt for an upgrade gives no points of note. It has nothing to do with the difficulty, its just a cost benefit issue, too much effort for not enough cycling in my opinion.

Fair enough, I take your point. I read it as a complaint about the type of races available. I'll be quiet now.

Harrybelafonte

lennymc wrote: »

Races are too long and hilly. they should be flat with some banking and not longer than 4k.

Ah now, nationals is 30km long as was the UCI racing.

greenmat

Last weekend I was available for both the Mick Lally and the Cycleways cup. Tested the waters with the BOSS about possibly doing both but that was a no go, so had to pick one. Really wanted to do the Dublin Wheelers race on Saturday, (Swords rivals ) but because it was 42km made the decision to do Cycleways cup instead. If Sunday was out I would definatly have done the Mick Lally, I've no real problem with the short distance so to speak, as the toughest races I've done have been short fast ones but can't understand why organisers don't add another 8km to race lenght to bring it over 50km so top 8 score points. In my mind makes it more appealing to riders on hunt for points attracting more entries. Maybe they were trying to limit the field as sections of the circuit were quite tight, have had enough near misses/crashes in 2 A4 races this year.

lennymc

ragazzo wrote: »

Answering one and quoting another, Lenny.
Of course an individuals views are their own business. But when one posts their own business on an internet forum it is an invitation for others to read. Surely posters can comment and discuss the topics or information on this forum if it is in relation to cycling.

Is that not what boards.ie likes posters to do?

okie dokie.

anyway - pictures on facebook here

C3PO

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

5-6 races a year? You spend €125 on the licence. I don't think bang for your buck is the issue.

It's still an hour of hard training.

I also do about the same number of MTB, CX races and as many Marathon events as possible all with the same huge enjoyment and mid-pack results!! When I talk about "bang for buck" it's less to do with Euros and more to do with time on my bike versus time travelling etc!
I live on the edge of Wicklow and am blessed to be offroad or on great training roads in less than five minutes so for the same same four hours I can have an hours racing or a half day on my bike - I usually opt for the latter!

Idleater

lennymc wrote: »

anyway - pictures on facebook

Class snap of you in there!

And me chatting before the crash that gave me the workout.

lennymc

Idleater wrote: »

Class snap of you in there!

And me chatting before the crash that gave me the workout.

you need to be paying attention! And get up the front of that bunch.

Diarmuid

Inquitus wrote: »

42km is too short to get out of bed for tbh, what with the travel, the wife etc. and I wouldn't bother if I had the same choice tomorrow. Plus only the first 3 places give 3,2,1 points when its that short, which is a further disincentive, when >50km race pays 8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1

A win is a win. You won't be asked how long the race was when you're posting pictures on FaceBook of you crossing the line, arms in the air.

GMCI

greenmat wrote: »

I've no real problem with the short distance so to speak, as the toughest races I've done have been short fast ones but can't understand why organisers don't add another 8km to race lenght to bring it over 50km so top 8 score points. In my mind makes it more appealing to riders on hunt for points attracting more entries. Maybe they were trying to limit the field as sections of the circuit were quite tight, have had enough near misses/crashes in 2 A4 races this year.

Organisers don't think about the CI grading points when deciding on race distances. I would imagine that the distances are shorter because the negative racing that exists and the slow pace on flatter circuits as everyone sits in and waits for a bunch gallop means that the race could end up causing headaches for the organiser on a shorter circuit with potentially getting caught by the next group on the road.

Those that complain about races being too short, try actually RACING for the time that you are there over the course that's laid out for you. Whether you get the points/results or not , you will be rewarded later in the season as the more aggressive style of racing will pay off more as you move up the categories.

ragazzo

GMCI wrote: »

Organisers don't think about the CI grading points when deciding on race distances. I would imagine that the distances are shorter because the negative racing that exists and the slow pace on flatter circuits as everyone sits in and waits for a bunch gallop means that the race could end up causing headaches for the organiser on a shorter circuit with potentially getting caught by the next group on the road.

Those that complain about races being too short, try actually RACING for the time that you are there over the course that's laid out for you. Whether you get the points/results or not , you will be rewarded later in the season as the more aggressive style of racing will pay off more as you move up the categories.

That might sound a bit harsh to some riders but it sums up the reality of the situation quite well.
Riding hard will bring everyone on and might solve some of the issues witnessed, and written about here, usually from the perspective of the rear of the bunch.

lennymc

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I thought the point being made was that a longer race (irrespective of the difficulty) was seen as a more attractive option than a shorter race due to the ops personal circumstances. I don't think anyone said in the Mick Lalley thread 'oh, its only 42 k. That's way to easy for me'. Pawlie said it once last year, but was then upgraded.

I do agree though, regardless of distance, if you want to get points or get upgraded you need to race at the front of the bunch.

Pawlie

lennymc wrote: »

Pawlie said it once last year, but was then upgraded.

I do agree though, regardless of distance, if you want to get points or get upgraded you need to race at the front of the bunch.

Was that me that said that,I'd never have anything negative to say about any grade of racing,I'd be linched on this if I did :eek:

lennymc

Pawlie wrote: »

Was that me that said that,I'd never have anything negative to say about any grade of racing,I'd be linched on this if I did :eek:

hahaha. Where have you been hiding?

Down the back of the easy races no doubt....

Pawlie

lennymc wrote: »

hahaha. Where have you been hiding?

Down the back of the easy races no doubt....

Muhahahahaha

Agh I've been keeping an eye on yea from the front lad

greenmat

GMCI wrote: »

Organisers don't think about the CI grading points when deciding on race distances. I would imagine that the distances are shorter because the negative racing that exists and the slow pace on flatter circuits as everyone sits in and waits for a bunch gallop means that the race could end up causing headaches for the organiser on a shorter circuit with potentially getting caught by the next group on the road.

Those that complain about races being too short, try actually RACING for the time that you are there over the course that's laid out for you. Whether you get the points/results or not , you will be rewarded later in the season as the more aggressive style of racing will pay off more as you move up the categories.

Your dead right. Haven't gone all out to force a break, love to but it's funny how all the other grades I know are telling me to sit in and wait for finish. Last weekend's race I crashed on last lap, lost at least a minute or more and had no problem chasing back on, so maybe I should chance my arm by jumping during a race.