Energy Gels

lismore7

Just wondered how long does it take for energy gels to work, once you take them?
i.e. If you had a big climb ahead of you, at what point should one take a gel to get that extra boost?

drogdub

lismore7 wrote: »

Just wondered how long does it take for energy gels to work, once you take them?
i.e. If you had a big climb ahead of you, at what point should one take a gel to get that extra boost?

I tend to use energy gels in the last hour, at the most, if I feel my energy levels going down just to get me home. Prefer the strategy of drinking and eating on the bike regularly and porrige/fruit or carbs before I go out with. Its just my belief that you are better off trying to keep your energy levels consistent as possible because if you boost them then you will suffer when the effects wear off. Bit like a sugar rush.

Diggabot

drogdub wrote: »

I tend to use energy gels in the last hour, at the most, if I feel my energy levels going down just to get me home. Prefer the strategy of drinking and eating on the bike regularly and porrige/fruit or carbs before I go out with.

Yeah, I agree. I'd normally take on a gel on the home stretch if I'm feeling low following a long ride.

Just saw this link on gels from The Feed which they just posted https://thefeed.com/2014/02/23/winning-with-gels/

Lumen

Taking gels routinely is not generally a good idea; they're a bit of a crutch. Your body contains various energy sources (glycogen, fat, whatever you last ate) which, with sufficient training, will get you up any number of hills.

Darkglasses

lismore7 wrote: »

Just wondered how long does it take for energy gels to work, once you take them?
i.e. If you had a big climb ahead of you, at what point should one take a gel to get that extra boost?

You're going to get a lot of people suggesting not using them at all, but in answer to your question, I would start feeling stronger about 6-7 minutes after scoffing a gel.

lismore7

drogdub wrote: »

I tend to use energy gels in the last hour, at the most, if I feel my energy levels going down just to get me home. Prefer the strategy of drinking and eating on the bike regularly and porrige/fruit or carbs before I go out with. Its just my belief that you are better off trying to keep your energy levels consistent as possible because if you boost them then you will suffer when the effects wear off. Bit like a sugar rush.

I normally munch a few home made Uber bars as per GCN's recipe on You Tube http://youtu.be/jMJEIiWV3VQ Bloody good to.
However, as I've never taken gels, do they have any advantage and if so, how best to use them?

ford2600

lismore7 wrote: »

I normally munch a few home made Uber bars as per GCN's recipe on You Tube http://youtu.be/jMJEIiWV3VQ Bloody good to.
However, as I've never taken gels, do they have any advantage and if so, how best to use them?

Your training for sportives no?

Just eat normal food.

lismore7

ford2600 wrote: »

Your training for sportives no?

Just eat normal food.

Yes, Tour de cure, Ring of Kerry, Sean Kelly etc etc

Bikerbhoy

There is no reason if you eat properly before and during an event why you would need a gel at all. I honestly can't remember the last time I actually needed to take one in my opinion they are like a spare tube you are not going to use it unless you need too but will always carry one just in case. I get the impression folk think its cool or more pro to be horsing gels down their neck and I shudder every time I see gel wrappers discarded on the roadside 20 / 30 k into an event.

Indricotherium

Bikerbhoy wrote: »

There is no reason if you eat properly before and during an event why you would need a gel at all. I honestly can't remember the last time I actually needed to take one in my opinion they are like a spare tube you are not going to use it unless you need too but will always carry one just in case. I get the impression folk think its cool or more pro to be horsing gels down their neck and I shudder every time I see gel wrappers discarded on the roadside 20 / 30 k into an event.

From the people ahead of you?

Lumen

Indricotherium wrote: »

From the people ahead of you?

The shame of littering is almost as strong as the shame of treating a non-race as a race. :-)

Vizzy

Lumen wrote: »

The shame of littering is almost as strong as the shame of treating a non-race as a race. :-)

And much more expensive

dermabrasion

Sportive and training = real food.
Full gas race= inhale a gel at 45mins-1hr mark and every 20-30mins. Wrapper goes up jersey. Sticky fingers when retrieving.

NeedMoreGears

I don't bother with them when training. I don't race ; only sportifs.

In a 100k+ event I'd usually have one or two with about 25% to go. On somthing like the SKT, I'd have one half way up Mahon's Falls, as much as a little reward as anything else.

I like the ones with caffeine in them. They seem to kick in after about two or three minutes for me but that might be just the caffeine.

Last time I had a gel was during a very hungover tennis match, which I lost anyway.

ford2600

OP uf cycling for health and weight loss, very hard to justify gels energy bars etc.

Lots of marketing out there to tell you they are necessary; imho that is not so.

If you are very lean(10% bodyfat) and weigh 80kgs you have a fat store of circa 60,000 calories. 500-600 calories should keep you going for an hour on bike.

Train your body to access that; lashing in sugar won't help.
With a little knowledge and a few simple changes no reason mostfof your energy needs on low & moderate intensity sessions can't come from fat stores.

Or don't bother. I know lads doind race the ras, all the hard sportives, Giants Causeway, SKT etc wondering why they can't lose weight abd why they pile on weight everry winter.

Alek

Train your body to access that; lashing in sugar won't help.

Why does it help so many then?

Fat burning technique is interesting, but not the only one.

Or don't bother. I know lads doind race the ras, all the hard sportives, Giants Causeway, SKT etc wondering why they can't lose weight abd why they pile on weight everry winter.

I eat everything, lots of sugar and carbs (by your standards ) and ride 500-700km monthly. On longer rides, I start eating after 40km and then try to nibble something every 25km. It can be a homemade oats/rasins bar, a cookie, occasionally a gel or two* - I aim for approx 250kcal.

* - I still have too many from BOGOF sale. I don't like them, but they work.


With a little bit of food control (I'm trying to stop eating while still slightly hungry) I lost 15kg within a year and kept the weight through the winter.

What does it prove? Not much.

Brian?

Lumen wrote: »

Taking gels routinely is not generally a good idea; they're a bit of a crutch. Your body contains various energy sources (glycogen, fat, whatever you last ate) which, with sufficient training, will get you up any number of hills.

I don't see gels as a crutch, I see them as what they are: food.

I'd agree that the protocols the energy gel companies try to peddle are nonsense, but if I'm hungry on the bike I'll eat a gel to keep me going. I'd prefer to eat something else, but their calorie density is hard to beat.



Note: eat not take, unless you also say you take cake.

crashoveroid

In my opinion Gels have there place. It great for people to tell you train your fat but for some types this may take a bit of time for the body adjust.

For me the key would be train the body drip feed fat and glycogen. But this only achieved by training.

Gels are great racing use them myself with Bars. This all depends on the length of the race and what the pace is going to be like.

Training has no need for gels they are expensive and you should be able to eat homemade bars or fruit on the bike.

If you want to loose weight the quickest and easiest way i find is doing early morning rides 30mins to 1 hr. On a fasted state. Just have an expresso before you start.

07Lapierre

You've just cycled 100 - 150klm. Its been a hilly route, Wicklow Gap, Slieve Mann and maybe Shay elliott climbs. You've eaten a few sandwiches and drank a few bottles. Now you're only 10k from the finish...even the slightest incline feels like climbing Everest!, your legs are heavy, you can't stomach another bloody ham/cheese sandwich or whatever. Now is the time for that one gel in your back pocket....

RayCun

07Lapierre wrote: »

Now you're only 10k from the finish...Now is the time for that one gel in your back pocket....

For the placebo effect? It takes 15-20 minutes for your body to absorb the carbs and your blood sugar to start rising again

07Lapierre

RayCun wrote: »

For the placebo effect? It takes 15-20 minutes for your body to absorb the carbs and your blood sugar to start rising again

My post was not meant to be taken that specifically...the point I'm making is gels are for those times when you can't eat real food, e.g. in a race or when your so tired that you can't stomach anything else.

As for placebo effect? if it makes you feel better and gets you home, yes.

Wishbone Ash

RayCun wrote: »

For the placebo effect? It takes 15-20 minutes for your body to absorb the carbs and your blood sugar to start rising again

Even if it's a placebo, so what?

I treat gels like spare tubes - always take them on longer spins but rarely need them. There's only so much food one can carry and, when in unknown territory, it's a horrible feeling to 'blow up' and have to grind like a dead man to the nearest shop/filling station which could be 20kms away.

NeedMoreGears

RayCun wrote: »

For the placebo effect? It takes 15-20 minutes for your body to absorb the carbs and your blood sugar to start rising again

I feel better/stronger after a much shorter period than 15-20 minutes ; perhaps 2 or 3 (I haven't timed it so best guess). Is that the caffeine?

RayCun

The placebo effect is powerful

(There was also a study that showed just washing your mouth out with a carbohydrate drink would lead to a performance boost)

NeedMoreGears

Just found this

http://www.irishsportscouncil.ie/Institute-of-Sport/Athlete_Zone/Sports_Nutrition_Supplements/Sports-Gel-Tech-Doc-2013.pdf

It seems to suggest that any carbohydrate ingestion is good (good being improved endurance/speed etc) - I was pleased to see some scientific research into the benefits of Jelly Babies (more pleased again to see they are beneficial)

It also suggests that gels that contain different carbohydrates and minerals may offer multiple ways of getting sugars into the blood and onto the muscles , some of these paths are faster than others.

This article ( http://triathlete-europe.competitor.com/2012/01/16/all-you-need-to-know-about-energy-gels ) that the brain draws sugar directly from the blood so you feel less dopey before your legs feel the benefits. That may explain why I feel better relatively quickly.

shaka

I've stopped using them on training runs or sportives around 100k, ill have a couple in back pocket just in case but that's it.

I prefer the caffeine ones which I feel benefits of ( I think) after 5 or so minutes.

First few sportives I did when I got back on the bike I defo consumed way to many.

ballyharpat

I use them in races or hard training/group rides only. I Find it depends on which ones I am using as to how long they last, to tell you the truth, I use high five if it's gonna be a fast start to the race, but after that, it's always 'Gu' with caffeine I use. I find a benefit after 15/20 minutes and I always take a drink before and after, it's also best to swish the gel in your mouth before swallowing-saliva aids digestion and the gel gets into your system faster-that works for me

I do always take one-just in case-on every ride though...

Lumen

NeedMoreGears wrote: »

Just found this

http://www.irishsportscouncil.ie/Institute-of-Sport/Athlete_Zone/Sports_Nutrition_Supplements/Sports-Gel-Tech-Doc-2013.pdf

I really don't like the way that's put together. I consider myself fairly open minded in gel vs food vs fat debate, but a paper which notes no effective differences between different sources of CHO and then concludes that gels are excellent smells of "third party input".

niceonetom

Lumen wrote: »

I really don't like the way that's put together. I consider myself fairly open minded in gel vs food vs fat debate, but a paper which notes no effective differences between different sources of CHO and then concludes that gels are excellent smells of "third party input".

This won't do much to assuage those suspicions:
https://www.indi.ie/about-us/sponsorship.html

Brian?

Lumen wrote: »

I really don't like the way that's put together. I consider myself fairly open minded in gel vs food vs fat debate, but a paper which notes no effective differences between different sources of CHO and then concludes that gels are excellent smells of "third party input".

It's a bit odd. There are huge differences between how your body processes a sweet potato and an energy gel.

This difference is what makes energy gels a very good food in certain situations and a terrible food in others.

ford2600

Brian? wrote: »

It's a bit odd. There are huge differences between how your body processes a sweet potato and an energy gel.

This difference is what makes energy gels a very good food in certain situations and a terrible food in others.

Would you draw a distinction between typical beginner sportive cyclist; often cycling for general health and/or weight loss and others who race? (@Ballypharpat for example races A2 I believe).

If you just want to get around a 100-160km, generally be healthy and lose weight would it be advisable to avoid gels, sports drinks etc?

RayCun

Gels are useful because they are concentrated - easy to carry and digest quickly. The bad sides are that they usually taste like gack, because they're so concentrated you can get a rollercoaster effect - surge, crash, want another gel, and if you keep eating them you get dependent on glycogen, you never learn to burn fat.
So, the question is, are you in a situation where a gel is better than regular food? Are you working hard enough that regular food is hard to digest? Are you travelling so light that regular food is too heavy and bulky? Are you in a situation where you can't slow down to eat a banana as you cycle, or pull over for a quick sandwich?

Brian?

ford2600 wrote: »

Would you draw a distinction between typical beginner sportive cyclist; often cycling for general health and/or weight loss and others who race? (@Ballypharpat for example races A2 I believe).

If you just want to get around a 100-160km, generally be healthy and lose weight would it be advisable to avoid gels, sports drinks etc?

If you're cycling for weightloss, simple carbs like gels are not a great idea. Unless you're in dire straights, e.g. you feel like you're going to bonk.

This doesn't just include gels, it's all simple carbs if avoid as much as you can.

NeedMoreGears

Lumen wrote: »

I really don't like the way that's put together. I consider myself fairly open minded in gel vs food vs fat debate, but a paper which notes no effective differences between different sources of CHO and then concludes that gels are excellent smells of "third party input".

Perhaps they should have replaced "gels" with "CHO whether from gels or other sources" in their conclusions. There does appear to have been a bit of leap from CHO to gels alright.

If glucose and fructose have different mechanisms in terms of absorbtion and subsequent oxidation I was wondering

(1) which of the mechanisms is quicker and

(2) are there normal foods (including Jelly Babies! ) that offer combined glucose and fructose naturally

Brian?

NeedMoreGears wrote: »

Perhaps they should have replaced "gels" with "CHO whether from gels or other sources" in their conclusions. There does appear to have been a bit of leap from CHO to gels alright.

If glucose and fructose have different mechanisms in terms of absorbtion and subsequent oxidation I was wondering

(1) which of the mechanisms is quicker and

(2) are there normal foods (including Jelly Babies! ) that offer combined glucose and fructose naturally

Glucose>>>fructose.

As fat as I remember fructose can on only be converted to liver glycogen. Once the liver has enough the rest goes to fat storage.

Alek

are there normal foods (including Jelly Babies! ) that offer combined glucose and fructose naturally

Honey is essentially glucose/fructose mix.

Typical honey analysis:[46]
Fructose: 38.2%
Glucose: 31.3%
Maltose: 7.1%
Sucrose: 1.3%
Water: 17.2%
Higher sugars: 1.5%
Ash: 0.2%
Other/undetermined: 3.2%

Rambling Man

I throw a good few jelly beans into the back pocket. Mainly because I absolutely love jelly beans.

Lumen

Like most things in the realms of try-hard cycling it's worth considering:

Do pro stage racers do it? If not, then...

(a) why not?
(b) why do I need to?

...and also, if eating sugar makes for faster speed-endurance, then why don't elite marathon runners eat it?

AFAIK, pro cyclists do not use get many of their on-the-bike calories from refined sugar, and elite marathon runners don't eat at all.

I think that short duration fast cycling (<2 hours) is fuelled by glycogen, and long-duration fast cycling (>2 hours) is fuelled by varying proportions of glycogen, fat, and food, according to the varying effort requirements.

If I'm cycling slow enough to digest something then proper food will work fine. There just isn't a big role to play for refined sugars, fundamentally because we didn't evolve to use refined sugars as an energy source. We also didn't evolve to ride bicycles, but we don't have cycling-specific physiology and therefore don't need cycling-specific food.

Studies may show that it's possible to trick the body (e.g. sugary mouth rinse) some of the time, but ultimately you can't heathily screw with millions of years of evolution and expect sustainable benefits.

ford2600

Brian? wrote: »

Glucose>>>fructose.

As fat as I remember fructose can on only be converted to liver glycogen. Once the liver has enough the rest goes to fat storage.

I remember reading something,forget where (head is gone blank), that fructose is almost completely stored as fat, whether liver is full of glycogen or not.


http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88828216&postcount=307

There are two other things about fructose that make it different from glucose. One is that all the fructose you eat is cleared on its first pass through the liver. In other words, the liver scarfs up all the fructose and immediately converts it to fat, while glucose stays in the bloodstream for some period of time. That’s why we call starches hyperglycemic molecules; they keep glucose levels in your bloodstream high for a long time. That is good for the brain - the brain loves to eat glucose. It’s good for the muscle. But fructose doesn’t actually supply any energy to your brain at all, it doesn’t supply any energy to your muscle; it only gets stored as fat. That’s really quite remarkable, if you think about it. You eat sucrose - one molecule of glucose and one molecule of fructose - that glucose is being used by your muscle and your brain - your brain loves getting that glucose - but the fructose is all just getting stored as fat.



Probably very advantageous in autumn when ancient man was trying to fatten up for winter. Grizzly bears(Brown bears that have access to salmon and blueberries) will leave rivers to gorge on blueberries when they are plentiful; according to to park ranger I met in Denali years ago

RayCun

Lumen wrote: »

elite marathon runners don't eat at all.

no, but their drinks are usually carb-rich. They can mix their drinks in advance and leave them at aid tables. Non-elites are limited to what they get on the course or what they carry themselves

Lumen

RayCun wrote: »

no, but their drinks are usually carb-rich. They can mix their drinks in advance and leave them at aid tables. Non-elites are limited to what they get on the course or what they carry themselves

Yeah, but...

http://www.livestrong.com/article/1003397-elite-runners-use-gels/

"Former Olympian and renowned running coach Jeff Galloway, noting that he did not take any fuel during his first 70 marathons, said that after each race he felt spent and had trouble recovering. During his last 40 marathons, he consumed an energy bar during the race and had a far better experience, especially in the last few miles"

RayCun

Lumen wrote: »

Yeah, but...

http://www.livestrong.com/article/1003397-elite-runners-use-gels/

"Former Olympian and renowned running coach Jeff Galloway, noting that he did not take any fuel during his first 70 marathons, said that after each race he felt spent and had trouble recovering. During his last 40 marathons, he consumed an energy bar during the race and had a far better experience, especially in the last few miles"

Yes, he was an Olympian in 1972. When did he run his marathons and how fast was he going?

Elite marathon runners today have carb-rich drinks.

quozl

Lumen wrote: »

http://www.livestrong.com/article/1003397-elite-runners-use-gels/

"Former Olympian and renowned running coach Jeff Galloway

He'd be about the least elite angled person you could have found to quote! He's famous for advocating Gallo-walking which is the idea of jogging a bit, walking a bit, jogging a bit and so on so that your really unfit person can complete a marathon arguably faster than if they tried to jog the whole thing.

Marathon runners drinks are carb heavy. Runners practice getting their bottles at speed and things can fall apart badly even for elites if they miss a bottle because of a surge, miss-handled pass or whatever.

I'm in the try-to-rely-on-fat-as-much-as-possible camp but I don't think you can use what runners do to argue against cyclists using gels. Running makes it very difficult to hold down any food, even gels, compared to cycling. So there's a strong reason that runners have for not eating things that doesn't really apply to cyclists.

drogdub

drogdub wrote: »

I tend to use energy gels in the last hour, at the most, if I feel my energy levels going down just to get me home. Prefer the strategy of drinking and eating on the bike regularly and porrige/fruit or carbs before I go out with. Its just my belief that you are better off trying to keep your energy levels consistent as possible because if you boost them then you will suffer when the effects wear off. Bit like a sugar rush.

I didn't follow this strategy today and suffered like a dog in the last 5km, even felt a bit dizzy