Are my guardianship rights being ignored?

osprey

Hello.

*Background*

I'm a father and guardian to two sons aged 5 and 6. I fought for an extraordinary amount of time to gain both access and guardianship, that time period was a little over 14 months. This was owing to false allegations that the boys' mother made to the HSE, and as a natural progression, caught the attention of the Gardai, who in turn conducted their own investigation. The ultimate conclusion after that length of time was that there was 'nothing to investigate', not quite the conclusive phrase I would have liked, yet the accuser landed herself on a very lengthy probation as an indirect result. You can imagine that I have minimal communication with the boys' mother nowadays, accusations of the nature made about me, I shall not forget, as to this day they make my life difficult in a few areas.

*Questions*

I always paid maintenance and over the stated amount, I have a personal savings account in my childrens' names also that is contributed to monthly. I see my sons every weekend (Fri-Sun) and 50/50 access during school holidays. I was left quite bewildered this month when upon picking the boys up from school, my youngest son was wearing glasses, I had absolutely no idea he required corrective glasses and had not been informed. Would this situation be against my rights as a guardian? Secondly, my youngest son was immunized last week at school, again I was not informed and had no idea the procedure has taken place, is this against my rights as a guardian? Thirdly I have since learned that both of my sons are attending church on a Sunday when I bring them back in the morning, it is an evangelist church and they put on a Sunday school environment within the building for the youngsters. I was not informed about any of this until my eldest son told me, is their attending church without my knowledge against my rights as a guardian?

My thoughts are that of those three instances, two are medical and one religion, according to my information I should at the very least have a say in all three scenarios and be kept informed. Any advice as to how to proceed would be appreciated, I do not mind going back into court.

lifeandtimes

osprey wrote: »

my youngest son was wearing glasses, I had absolutely no idea he required corrective glasses and had not been informed. Would this situation be against my rights as a guardian?

I'm sorry I'm confused by this, why would your son wearing glasses be against your rights?...do you not want him to wear glasses to improve his vision?...unless you are referring to their mother not telling you that she was getting them then i don't see what the issues is and even her not telling you isn't something to fight about. Yes maybe she should have said it to you but like you said communication between you two is strained at best.

osprey wrote: »

"Secondly, my youngest son was immunized last week at school, again I was not informed and had no idea the procedure has taken place, is this against my rights as a guardian? "

Again i don't see the issues here,how is your son be immunized from diseases against you rights? its a proven and necessary requirement for children to help them...also your ex takes care of your children day to day and if she wants to protect them that way she has every right, you wont be the one staying up with them all night or god forbid rushing them to hospital if they fall ill

osprey wrote: »

Thirdly I have since learned that both of my sons are attending church on a Sunday when I bring them back in the morning, it is an evangelist church and they put on a Sunday school environment within the building for the youngsters. I was not informed about any of this until my eldest son told me, is their attending church without my knowledge against my rights as a guardian? "

This is a bit of grey area to be honest but to be fair i don't think you will be able to take her to court and have a judge order her not to send them to Sunday school or church...how will that be enforced,you cant wait outside the church and stop them going in.My advice is raise this concerns with her but ultimately she will raise her children through whatever faith she likes until they are old enough to make their own decisions

In my opinion i think you are finding things to argue about after the false accusations she has made about you, i know because i have been their with my ex but the people on this site have given me good advise which i will give to you....Don't sweat the little things!...you have at least 13 years left dealing with this woman and having a civil and grown up relationship will only work to your benefit and your children will thank you for it in the future

hope it does work out for you

osprey

I've nothing against immunization or reading glasses, only for the fact I am not informed. Where the religion aspect is concerned I am positive that as a guardian I too have a say before a decision to bring them to a Sunday school is made. I'm not being selective or magnifying small points, yet I can relate to where you're coming from, I'm just near sure that all three instances are a two finger salute to my rights as a guardian, for which I fought incredibly hard.

lifeandtimes

osprey wrote: »

I've nothing against immunization or reading glasses, only for the fact I am not informed. Where the religion aspect is concerned I am positive that as a guardian I too have a say before a decision to bring them to a Sunday school is made. I'm not being selective or magnifying small points, yet I can relate to where you're coming from, I'm just near sure that all three instances are a two finger salute to my rights as a guardian, for which I fought incredibly hard.

I understand what you mean,having guardianship is not as 50/50 as it should be and the fact shes isnt informing you is upsetting. A channel of communication needs to be kept open for your childrens sake but as you have said you two have a strained relationship and in your own words have"minimal communication with the mother" which of course will lead to things like this happening, shes hardly going to ring you straight away when something like this happens if that is the case.

My advice if you can,is either sit down(possibly through mediation) or at least talk to her over the phone and explain your points in a calm manner, tell her that you are both their parents and you must keep the channel of communication open for your childrens and both of yourselves sake and you have a right to have an input in aspects of their life as much as she does and you just wished to be involved and kept informed,also make sure to mention that its not to spy or ruffle feathers(in case she thinks it is) but that you love your children

Peregrinus

What lifetimes said. If you have "minimal communication with their mother", then this kind of thing is inevitably going to happen. You should probably stop trying to address this in terms of "your rights as a guardian" - as a guardian, you should be more focussed on your responsibilities than on your rights - and start thinking of it in terms of what is best for your kids.

It's a no-brainer that, in general, in not in kids' interests to have guardians who don't talk to one another, so the way out of the situation you're in is to try and open lines of communication with your co-guardian. I appreciate that there's a painful history there, but it will be best for the kids if you can bet past that.

Of course, it may not be possible; your co-guardian may reject all your efforts to open up communications. That will be very unfortunate, it it is so, but all you will be able to do is to tryt to minimise the impact this has on your kids. If you had "absolutely no idea" that your youngest had a vision problem, that suggests that you aren't regularly involved with his school teachers or with his GP, both of whom would likely have been involved in spotting the problem and addressing it. Possibly there's a dynamic going on where the kids mother attends to these aspects of life, and you stay out of the loop? Is that something that could be changed?

osprey

Thanks for the time spent mulling on this one, it is appreciated. There will always be a focal point on communication in any aspect of our case. It is, for me, impossible to communicate in person or on the phone, with somebody that engineered an allegation that may well have landed me 12 years. I am unable to rise above that for the benefit of anybody, for the time being at least. There's no dynamic present whereby I'm not kept informed by the boys' teacher. I make a point to converse with them each Friday at the pick up. As for the GP, there is none at the moment. We live in a small enough town and the majority of people know what she tried to do, including our GP at the time. Naturally she maintains a low profile always.

Ken.

Are you getting communications from various institutions. What I mean is when there is a p/t meeting do they let you know or do all letters go to your ex. Same for doctors/optician/dentist. You need to get in contact with as many as possible and tell them your situation and you want to be sent everything that gets sent to the ex. Most should be fairly accommodating seeing as how common it is for there to be separated families nowadays.

Peregrinus

OK. If that's the case - and I do not mean this in any judgmental way - the inability to communicate is on your side, not hers. But the not knowing about the specs is the consequence of this; as long as you can;t talk to your ex about your kids, things are going to be going on in your kids' life that you don't know about. Don't think of that as an infringement of your rights as a guardian; think about it as your inability (for the time being at least, as you point out it yourself) to fulfill the guardian's role as well as, ideally, you would like to.

And the long-term advice remains the same. The only way this will change is if you and your ex can start talking about your kids. In a way, it's a good thing that the blockage to communication is on your side, because that means it is to some extent under your control. There are steps you can take to advance the process of getting past your inability to talk to your wife. I'm not saying that you can do this easily or immediately, but you can do it and your kids welfare requires you to do it.

This sounds very preachy, and I don't mean it to, but you're not the only man who has had groundless accusations made against him in the course of a bitter break-up. If, through support groups and the like, you can make contact with others who have had to deal with this and who managed to get past it, it might help you to talk to them.

HotHHead

To answer your question on the three issues, YES you should have been notified on all three issues, it is your right as a guardian to have a say in your children medical and religious decisions.
On the glasses, what's the big deal? would you not have allowed your son to wear the glasses that he obviously needs?
On the immunization? do you not agree with it? there have been a few cases highlighted over the past couple of years were one parent brought the other to court over immunizations so yes if you have genuine issue with this, you can bring your x to court however to late now..
Re the religious classes, I presume you don't practice this religion? do you want your children to practice another religion or none? again you can go to court over this but if your x can prove it is beneficial for the children well then I can't see you having much luck.

You already have a very strained relationship with your x, you need to pick your battle wisely.

As another has already said, I would give your details to doctors/ schools etc copy of your guardianship paper and asked to be kept informed of everything, all notes ext sent home to mam you would like a copy also. This should be know hassle, schools are well used to dealing with separated parents..

osprey

HotHHead wrote: »

To answer your question on the three issues, YES you should have been notified on all three issues, it is your right as a guardian to have a say in your children medical and religious decisions.
On the glasses, what's the big deal? would you not have allowed your son to wear the glasses that he obviously needs?
On the immunization? do you not agree with it? there have been a few cases highlighted over the past couple of years were one parent brought the other to court over immunizations so yes if you have genuine issue with this, you can bring your x to court however to late now..
Re the religious classes, I presume you don't practice this religion? do you want your children to practice another religion or none? again you can go to court over this but if your x can prove it is beneficial for the children well then I can't see you having much luck.

You already have a very strained relationship with your x, you need to pick your battle wisely.

As another has already said, I would give your details to doctors/ schools etc copy of your guardianship paper and asked to be kept informed of everything, all notes ext sent home to mam you would like a copy also. This should be know hassle, schools are well used to dealing with separated parents..

This was a battle I picked wisely, hence a good deal of deliberation prior. My question was clear at the outset, but, that was slightly misinterpreted within some of these replies. Albeit the replies have come from genuine, bright people. On an interesting front, the three points outlined above were heard in the District Court this week gone. Resulting in an extension of her probation and costs awarded. Rights are rights. Thanks to those of you that took the time out to have a think and get back to me, I appreciated it.

lifeandtimes

osprey wrote: »

This was a battle I picked wisely, hence a good deal of deliberation prior. My question was clear at the outset, but, that was slightly misinterpreted within some of these replies. Albeit the replies have come from genuine, bright people. On an interesting front, the three points outlined above were heard in the District Court this week gone. Resulting in an extension of her probation and costs awarded. Rights are rights. Thanks to those of you that took the time out to have a think and get back to me, I appreciated it.

hi again,not being nosey and mods please don't say this has nothing to do with this thread because this post certainly does but my question is...how did the courts react to this and consider this to be a breach of your rights and what do you mean by "entension to her probation and costs awarded" what do you refer too in relaton to your children and your rights as a guardian?...im very curious to this

osprey

lifeandtimes wrote: »

hi again,not being nosey and mods please don't say this has nothing to do with this thread because this post certainly does but my question is...how did the courts react to this and consider this to be a breach of your rights and what do you mean by "entension to her probation and costs awarded" what do you refer too in relaton to your children and your rights as a guardian?...im very curious to this

That's quite alright. We moved from family law into criminal law last year when she deliberately denied access. I took her to Court immediately and she was given the probation act. As outlined in the original post, the three points raised in light of Guardianship have all taken place within that probationary time period. My costs were awarded and her period of probation extended further.

lifeandtimes

osprey wrote: »

That's quite alright. We moved from family law into criminal law last year when she deliberately denied access. I took her to Court immediately and she was given the probation act. As outlined in the original post, the three points raised in light of Guardianship have all taken place within that probationary time period. My costs were awarded and her period of probation extended further.

ah i see so during her probationary period for an original issue, this was seen as an infliction and you were awarded as a result...i understand now...thanks very much for getting back to me on this...hopefully in light of this she will "play ball" a lot easier as clearyl the courts are on your side...i wish you and your children all the best in the future

HotHHead

osprey wrote: »

This was a battle I picked wisely, hence a good deal of deliberation prior. My question was clear at the outset, but, that was slightly misinterpreted within some of these replies. Albeit the replies have come from genuine, bright people. On an interesting front, the three points outlined above were heard in the District Court this week gone. Resulting in an extension of her probation and costs awarded. Rights are rights. Thanks to those of you that took the time out to have a think and get back to me, I appreciated it.

IYO! I think arguing about your rights about a child getting glasses was petty and I'm surprised a court entertained this, the other two issues as I said IMO are valid reasons and I agree you should have a say.
Family law issues can not be heard in a criminal court as family law is a closed court? So I don't understand how that could have happened, unless the criminal aspect was dealt with first, then family law and everyone not related to the case was asked to leave the court room or you went to judges chambers to discuss family law issues? Can you explain if you don't mind, I've been in and out of court 10 years now and this is the first I've ever heard of such a thing.
Also am very interested in how your x got this probation, this was due to her lies that led to an investigation? not that she withheld your children from you? My partner has been in and out of court 6 years now at this stage, only at the start of investigation stage. His x regularly makes up exorbitant lies and regularly stops access, we haven't seen his daughter since Christmas.. She has previously had to make an undertaking to the court to not interfere with access, but didn't make a blind bit of difference.

Had you every issued committal papers?
I've never heard of this probation act, I'll have to look up now..

osprey

HotHHead wrote: »

IYO! I think arguing about your rights about a child getting glasses was petty and I'm surprised a court entertained this, the other two issues as I said IMO are valid reasons and I agree you should have a say.
Family law issues can not be heard in a criminal court as family law is a closed court? So I don't understand how that could have happened, unless the criminal aspect was dealt with first, then family law and everyone not related to the case was asked to leave the court room or you went to judges chambers to discuss family law issues? Can you explain if you don't mind, I've been in and out of court 10 years now and this is the first I've ever heard of such a thing.
Also am very interested in how your x got this probation, this was due to her lies that led to an investigation? not that she withheld your children from you? My partner has been in and out of court 6 years now at this stage, only at the start of investigation stage. His x regularly makes up exorbitant lies and regularly stops access, we haven't seen his daughter since Christmas.. She has previously had to make an undertaking to the court to not interfere with access, but didn't make a blind bit of difference.

Had you every issued committal papers?
I've never heard of this probation act, I'll have to look up now..

All three points raised in Court were a breach of Guardianship rights, again I have no quarrel about my youngest son having glasses, that would be ridiculous. That's twice I've written that, I should have written the original post better. Yet I do take exception to not being informed. That is far from petty. Family law can move into criminal law pretty quickly, this is the second time in my experience that it has been this way. My deliberate denial of access was to be heard under the guise of family law, only to be made criminal when the Judge agreed it was a breech of my access order last year. He punished her heavily with an incredibly lengthy period of probation. Taken into consideration was the previous case history and the upset she had caused. So far, throughout this four year journey, I have realized the benefits of not giving up. One day, one or both of my sons will ask me 'that big question' I want to be able to answer them wholly and rightly as well as in the mean time, be the best possible father I can be.

HotHHead

I have never came across it and especially in my partners case wonder how it has never came about as access is regularly deliberately denied. It was always my belief that all family law is incamera and therefore can not be heard in an open court, ie criminal. Its completely new to me.
You say she was put on probation? Does she have a conviction? what summons did you issue her to get your case brought to the criminal court?

osprey

HotHHead wrote: »

I have never came across it and especially in my partners case wonder how it has never came about as access is regularly deliberately denied. It was always my belief that all family law is incamera and therefore can not be heard in an open court, ie criminal. Its completely new to me.
You say she was put on probation? Does she have a conviction? what summons did you issue her to get your case brought to the criminal court?

Denial of any Court order, in this case an access order, is contempt of Court.

bajer101

Have you considered making an application for sole or joint custody? I know it's a different issue to guardianship rights, but it would be an avenue I would definitely explore.

osprey

bajer101 wrote: »

Have you considered making an application for sole or joint custody? I know it's a different issue to guardianship rights, but it would be an avenue I would definitely explore.

Yes, perhaps for some, everything revolves around circumstances and EVERY story is different. For me, the boys come first and they love their mother, at the age they are they have minimal understanding, albeit they felt the effects. I could not strip them of what they are accustomed to at such a sensitive time of their lives. Hopefully the Court dates of last year until now will have made my position clear enough for a good few years yet.

HotHHead

osprey wrote: »

Denial of any Court order, in this case an access order, is contempt of Court.

Yes and she has been brought up on this before but in family law court, always some BS excuses and she always seems to get away with it.

Sorry I don't mean to keep coming back to you, but I'm intrigued.

Do you mind me asking are you representing yourself?

osprey

HotHHead wrote: »

Yes and she has been brought up on this before but in family law court, always some BS excuses and she always seems to get away with it.

Sorry I don't mean to keep coming back to you, but I'm intrigued.

Do you mind me asking are you representing yourself?

The more time passed, the more researched and confident I became about managing by myself in a Court. Many months separated from my sons taught me a lot about preparedness, assumptions in law, grey areas and a very new understanding of what a Court actually is. Don't look upon that as advice though, as I said, every situation is different, every background unique.

Joshua5

Hi there OP,

Did the courts frown upon the fact she didn't give you this information or what way was it perceived?

My son was due to attend counselling, we are married so I have auto rights.

She wouldn't give me the details, she indicated in court she had it organised and he was attending.

It turns out he wasn't and six months later her consent was still required.

She had also not consulted me on the secondary school, and she didn't even notify me his entrance exams.

I know they are slightly different but I'd like to know what the argument was in court as I can't seem to find anything online about when one parent ignores the others guardianship rights.

Ta