beef factory farm causing annoyance around marts

Cowman1991

I was recently trying to buy stores at two mart show and sales last Saturday and Monday. I was shocked at the price of good quality store heifers and was even more shocked to see the man that was out bidding me was a agent for a factory farm (based in clonee) who don't seem to want beef at any price when you ring for a price. I knew the agent in question was operating for them some time ago but I didn't think he was out at all now. I find it very hard to believe the factory in question would let this man operate for them because he is known for his dodgy reputation around the part of the country he is from. on Saturday I seen him openly flash around a sheet of cattle he bought with the factory's name on top of it. I think this type of behaviour is very disrespectful at a time when me and most beef farmers are getting such a grilling at the hands of the factories. does anybody else feel this way or am I just feeling sore that I have to go out and give near the price that I got for beef to get good stores

stand on!!

A show and sale day is always hard to buy at as there is too many outside buyers around. But I agree with you fully its hard enough buy against other farmers but buying against factories aint easy

Cowman1991

I don't mind buying in shows and sales because I believe when you have the good quality stock on offer you have some help. but I didn't like the way the agent was acting putting in some1 else to pole me so he taught I wouldn't cop on. not biding on cattle until near the fall of the hammer and then aggressively bidding in a hope he'd leave me up. I never had a problem with competition around a ring but its people like this wasting someone else's money trying to be the 'big man' I have a problem with.

Cowman1991

funny thing about the whole thing is I often buy cattle against the farm manager of the farm and I find him a true gentleman true to his word. bids up front and only for the cattle he wants and knows how to buy them at good value

Farmer Pudsey

Factory's are planning to pull same stunt in May/June as they did in December/January. They intent to manuiplate the market by using cattle they bay now and finish to control prices. If you are planning to finish cattle be wary there will be np hot prices like last year.

Cowman1991

I think its time to make an example of these factory's and let them no that us farmers are not going to pay for there company cars and perks

Muckit

Knowledge is power and it's good to be aware that this kind of manipulation of the market goes on.

I personally have no problem with factory agents coming in and paying top dollar for cattle in marts. If it's a small farmer that has sold, he has got on better with his cattle than if he tried finish and sell to the factory direct.

OP you shouldn't take it personally. No good buying dear cattle, but no harm in driving them up.

Cowman1991

I no that but its the principal of the matter. the cheek of them slashing beef prices and changing the spec of cattle then to turn around and see a factory agent blowing money as if he'd just won the euro millions is a disgrace if you ask me

Reggie.

Cowman1991 wrote: »

I no that but its the principal of the matter. the cheek of them slashing beef prices and changing the spec of cattle then to turn around and see a factory agent blowing money as if he'd just won the euro millions is a disgrace if you ask me

+1

mf240

They have been acting the bollix for a long as I can remember and farmers still supply them every year.

From August to may 2011 2012 farmers outbid the exporters for calves and weanlings and even went as far as bringing English calves and a handfull from Romania, the factories now have loads of cattle to go around so they can pick and choose.

Remember the little fat kid in school that never got picked for soccer, unless there was a few lads out sick, it's the same thing with factories.

Cowman1991

yes how long can farmers actually economically do this for. they treat farmers like dirt its time to stand up to all d big shots that call the shots from there office chairs

Base price

Cowman1991 wrote: »

I no that but its the principal of the matter. the cheek of them slashing beef prices and changing the spec of cattle then to turn around and see a factory agent blowing money as if he'd just won the euro millions is a disgrace if you ask me

Unfortunately principles don't count when it comes to factories :mad:
Factories have been filling their own feedlots or paying for contract rearing for years in order to supply their own factories and thereby able to dictate prices by been able to record seemingly oversupply of numbers for the media.

willfarmerman

Would it be worth getting ifa and other farm oganizations to lobby the dept to legislate to close these feedlots?

Miname

What size and sort of stock were they after. Now that you say it a lad pointed out one of the good men at a mart recently. How long is this muck going to keep going on, if it does are we not all going to be just labourers for the factories. Any sign of the ifa or any of the big noises doing anything, i read somewhere the northern ireland section i think were organising something.

Viewtodiefor

Miname wrote: »

What size and sort of stock were they after. Now that you say it a lad pointed out one of the good men at a mart recently. How long is this muck going to keep going on, if it does are we not all going to be just labourers for the factories. Any sign of the ifa or any of the big noises doing anything, i read somewhere the northern ireland section i think were organising something.

No way Ifa will go against factories as they get paid their supscription by them!
Waste of time even asking. Nothing is going to change unless farmers stop producing/supplying And that's not going to happen.
Best thing you can do is send animals to the Mary n when these guys bid get someone else to throw a few bids on them.

Cowman1991

I know but the most thing I was annoyed about was the agent acting on behalf of the clonee based factory farm. does any other people have experiences of jobbers like this

Pharaoh1

Viewtodiefor wrote: »

No way Ifa will go against factories as they get paid their supscription by them!
Waste of time even asking. Nothing is going to change unless farmers stop producing/supplying And that's not going to happen.
Best thing you can do is send animals to the Mary n when these guys bid get someone else to throw a few bids on them.

Agree completely.
There is no point in looking to the Minister of Agriculture, the IFA or the factories or anyone else to solve the lack of profitability in the beef sector.

We need to forget about Harvest 2020, unprofitable operations need to stop or at least seriously reduce their output ( enough to keep DAS/SFP etc..) or move to dairying as many have or some other enterprise.
We need to make beef scarce enough to make it profitable if we can and then not make the mistake of upping production again as soon as there is a hint of profit.
It would probably result in job losses in the beef processing sector although these would be offset by jobs created in other areas but this is what needs to happen.

Base price

Pharaoh1 wrote: »

Agree completely.
There is no point in looking to the Minister of Agriculture, the IFA or the factories or anyone else to solve the lack of profitability in the beef sector.

We need to forget about Harvest 2020, unprofitable operations need to stop or at least seriously reduce their output ( enough to keep DAS/SFP etc..) or move to dairying as many have or some other enterprise.
We need to make beef scarce enough to make it profitable if we can and then not make the mistake of upping production again as soon as there is a hint of profit.
It would probably result in job losses in the beef processing sector although these would be offset by jobs created in other areas but this is what needs to happen.

Not trying to be confrontational but how do you suggest we make beef scarce on this island?

willfarmerman

Make sure the price a farmer pays for a calf doesn't put the exporter out of business.

Base price

willfarmerman wrote: »

Make sure the price a farmer pays for a calf doesn't put the exporter out of business.

In my 30 odd years of farming I have only seen one exporter going out of business - excluding the ones that are like the weather, as in, they come and go as the wind changes.
To be honest I don't think the farmer is competing against the exporter, its more like the exporters are competing against one another.

stand on!!

To be honest I don't think the farmer is competing against the exporter, its more like the exporters are competing against one another.[/quote]

Farmers in full flow around a ring are worse than any exporter

blue5000

willfarmerman wrote: »

Would it be worth getting ifa and other farm oganizations to lobby the dept to legislate to close these feedlots?

Does anybody know how many cattle can be supplied from factory owned feedlots per week? 30,000 cattle a week seems to be the magic number, if the supply is less than this factories need to compete for cattle, when it goes over this factories are on a winner. But how many do they have control of each week?

Base price

blue5000 wrote: »

Does anybody know how many cattle can be supplied from factory owned feedlots per week? 30,000 cattle a week seems to be the magic number, if the supply is less than this factories need to compete for cattle, when it goes over this factories are on a winner. But how many do they have control of each week?

Simple question. What entity determines the magic number, as in 30k per week.

mf240

Base price wrote: »

Simple question. What entity determines the magic number, as in 30k per week.

(Calves born) - (exports +losses)=(cattle available for slaughter)

Base price

mf240 wrote: »

(Calves born) - (exports +losses)=(cattle available for slaughter)

And you believe every printed word. Do you have access to the CMMS figures?

mf240

Base price wrote: »

And you believe every printed word. Do you have access to the CMMS figures?

No unfortunately dont have access to the cows.

I don't believe much that I read, but I believe there is a glut out there at the moment, the factories may be talking it up to be worse than it is though.

Do you believe that they are not getting as many as they are letting on?

TITANIUM.

.[/quote]

Farmers in full flow around a ring are worse than any exporter[/quote]

Farmers are normally buying for a different reason in fairness, were looking at the value the animal will give us over 10/12 years instead of simply slaughtering her at 24 months. So the perceived value/price of the animal is going to vary depending on the systems of the potential customers. ....

Base price

mf240 wrote: »

No unfortunately dont have access to the cows.

I don't believe much that I read, but I believe there is a glut out there at the moment, the factories may be talking it up to be worse than it is though.

Do you believe that they are not getting as many as they are letting on?

Yes I believe that they are not getting as many as they are letting on to have. I have already said this a few weeks ago - might have been in the beef price tracker thread.
How many factories were killing 5 days per week over the last 3 months?

Farmer Pudsey

willfarmerman wrote: »

Would it be worth getting ifa and other farm oganizations to lobby the dept to legislate to close these feedlots?

the only way would be if the IFA lobbied they will not as the factory's stop a levy automaticall for them unless you as a farmer srop this levy it is time we all did. I like everyone have been lax. Must start doing it all the time.

blue5000 wrote: »

Does anybody know how many cattle can be supplied from factory owned feedlots per week? 30,000 cattle a week seems to be the magic number, if the supply is less than this factories need to compete for cattle, when it goes over this factories are on a winner. But how many do they have control of each week?

Base price wrote: »

Simple question. What entity determines the magic number, as in 30k per week.

30K must be the rate at which if covers cost to kill cattle or else the approx amount that the factory's are committed to contracts for. Even though demand was strong last December in the UK when we exceeded this number the factory's got complete control of price. Do not know why this is the magic number but it seems to be the figure where the factory's stop competing

Base price

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

the only way would be if the IFA lobbied they will not as the factory's stop a levy automaticall for them unless you as a farmer srop this levy it is time we all did. I like everyone have been lax. Must start doing it all the time.





30K must be the rate at which if covers cost to kill cattle or else the approx amount that the factory's are committed to contracts for. Even though demand was strong last December in the UK when we exceeded this number the factory's got complete control of price. Do not know why this is the magic number but it seems to be the figure where the factory's stop competing

And that is age old problem, not regarding the 30k but when factories stop competing.

larrymiller

Base price wrote: »

Not trying to be confrontational but how do you suggest we make beef scarce on this island?

They will be lads going around at night lamping cattle!!

rancher

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

the only way would be if the IFA lobbied they will not as the factory's stop a levy automaticall for them unless you as a farmer srop this levy it is time we all did. I like everyone have been lax. Must start doing it all the time

You're going to be all disappointed when you all drop the levy and then discover that it doesn't make a damn bit of difference to the price of cattle.
When farmers go buying inputs, they buy them as cheap as ever they can and yet they expect factories not to do the same, it's just business.
What other way is there of asking farmers to pay their share.

Farmer Pudsey

rancher wrote: »

You're going to be all disappointed when you all drop the levy and then discover that it doesn't make a damn bit of difference to the price of cattle.
When farmers go buying inputs, they buy them as cheap as ever they can and yet they expect factories not to do the same, it's just business.
What other way is there of asking farmers to pay their share.

I do not expect it to do anything about the price of cattle but i am annoyed at supporting an orginisation that is only interested in certain section of farmers at this stage of which a lot are armchair farmers. It also has little interest in upsetting the Irish meat factory bosses

mf240

rancher wrote: »

What other way is there of asking farmers to pay their share.

Have ye starting asking for it? I thought ye just took it.

willfarmerman

Does anyone have the precise details on these feedlots? Are they contracting sheds off farmers or are they factory owned? If enough ifa members want action on this they will do something. I'm informed that it is illegal for them to do this in parts of the USA and Canada.

Cowman1991

i think its time to block the gates in all the factories in Ireland. then they wouldn't be long caving in. this pussy footing has been going on to long. its time for farmers to take the future of the beef industry into there own hands.

willfarmerman

We will have to let them open again though and all we will have done is backed cattle up for them.

Cowman1991

have a complete block off from the gates no cattle going in no meat going out

willfarmerman

Anyone know about ex ifa Dillon feeding a lot of cattle?

Farmer Pudsey

Cowman1991 wrote: »

i think its time to block the gates in all the factories in Ireland. then they wouldn't be long caving in. this pussy footing has been going on to long. its time for farmers to take the future of the beef industry into there own hands.

This is notr possible as the competition authority will break any farmer involved. We can protest out side and hope farmers will not deliver however for how ling is this sustainable for.To have any effect we would need to stop meat supply for a months and after there would be 100K cattle backed up.

willfarmerman wrote: »

Does anyone have the precise details on these feedlots? Are they contracting sheds off farmers or are they factory owned? If enough ifa members want action on this they will do something. I'm informed that it is illegal for them to do this in parts of the USA and Canada.

Some they own and some are contracted. Interestint to hear that they are prevented fom doing it in the USA. It is somthing I have pointed out continously taht the farm orginisations should complain to the CA about but as the factopry stop a few bob off ever animal that I or any finisher supply and give to the Farm orginisation they will not agravate them.

It is amazing that the FJ or FI have not picked up on this. But the FJ will nor print anything critacal of the IFA.

willfarmerman wrote: »

Anyone know about ex ifa Dillon feeding a lot of cattle?

Two years ago he was very actice buying AA heifers and paying top dollar for them. However LG has rented his shed is my understanding. It is unusal that any finisher if he was making money would lease out his faculities especially as the family(to my understanding) are providing the labour at the unit. i have often seen farmers/finishers that are retired lease out there units but seldom active farmers.

He is another former IFA leader that failed in his political ambitions.

towzer2010

willfarmerman wrote: »

Does anyone have the precise details on these feedlots? Are they contracting sheds off farmers or are they factory owned? If enough ifa members want action on this they will do something. I'm informed that it is illegal for them to do this in parts of the USA and Canada.

Well there is one about 10 miles from me. Its a tipp meat plant that rents the shed off the farmer and they supply the cattle and meal and the farmer provides all the labour and silage.

Last I heard they had about one hundred cattle always available for slaughter from this one shed. If that's replicated in ten more places (and I'm sure it must be) then this factory can pick and choose when they use their own stock to reduce prices.

rancher

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I do not expect it to do anything about the price of cattle but i am annoyed at supporting an orginisation that is only interested in certain section of farmers at this stage of which a lot are armchair farmers. It also has little interest in upsetting the Irish meat factory bosses

I was actually thinking of leasing out my farm in the next couple of years......this stunt by the EU has made up my mind, it'll never be leased out now
And there's more farmers than me thinking this way.
Also if you think about it, the €50m coming from this will a actually lessen the reduction in my SFP

keep going

I hope these agents keep buying, I have made nice money the last few years out of selling dry cows in the next month or so in the mart and the factory agent buys them all .you just have to make sure that their not in calf and healthy looking., last year I kept a few and fatten them and hardly made much more than they would have made in the spring.

Farmer Pudsey

keep going wrote: »

I hope these agents keep buying, I have made nice money the last few years out of selling dry cows in the next month or so in the mart and the factory agent buys them all .you just have to make sure that their not in calf and healthy looking., last year I kept a few and fatten them and hardly made much more than they would have made in the spring.

And for how long will the factory's pay over the top look at what has happened to the live export trade by allowing one exporter to control the price of export quality weanlings. If as a finisher i fail nto mke money for a few years I can only sustain losses for so long.

In last week journal there was a good article about an agri consultant that finishes cattle and is considering exiting the market. If finishers decide to downsize there finishing operations by 10-20% then the price of store will collapse.

Finishers are badly burnt this winter, it will take a long time for these lads to recover. LG and company will only want to keep so many cattle in feedlots. In this week journal JM has written a editorial about what has happened this winter. The collapse in finished cattle prices has not fed back into the store price yet but it will. What I have reaped and will reap over the next few months I will sow at the end of the year.

keep going

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

And for how long will the factory's pay over the top look at what has happened to the live export trade by allowing one exporter to control the price of export quality weanlings. If as a finisher i fail nto mke money for a few years I can only sustain losses for so long.

In last week journal there was a good article about an agri consultant that finishes cattle and is considering exiting the market. If finishers decide to downsize there finishing operations by 10-20% then the price of store will collapse.

Finishers are badly burnt this winter, it will take a long time for these lads to recover. LG and company will only want to keep so many cattle in feedlots. In this week journal JM has written a editorial about what has happened this winter. The collapse in finished cattle prices has not fed back into the store price yet but it will. What I have reaped and will reap over the next few months I will sow at the end of the year.

They will pay more for these animals because overall it keeps the cost of their kill lower as they can manipulate supply and they dont lose a y money on them either.I suppose the only worry is that there wont be many againdt them but then we havent run of fellas to buy them yet and its 15 to 20 years since there was any real money in beef

willfarmerman

We'll my view of this is simplistic. We can't blockade the factories it will be counter productive because locally hare the price isn't viewed as a disaster for steers and heifers.. The trouble I'm having is just getting cattle killed. I oppose any blockade. But now these factory feedlots I would protest and blockade..ask mcdonalds lidl aldi and about their present advertising campaign and where they think factory farms fit into it. This is our trump card. I am lobbying my local td and contacting local ifa in the coming days to see what the consensus is.

blue5000

Because we have to export so much of our beef (70-80%) we get hit when there is a surplus of beef in Europe. We are the safety valve, when it's scarce Europe comes to us.

Beef is scarce in UK right now because their suckler herd has basically been destroyed by supermarket greed. But, even though about half of our exported beef goes to the UK the benefits are not being passed back to us. The only way to boycott factories is not to put cows in calf and who is going to do that.

Standing outside the gate is no use if you have a shed of cattle to shift back in your yard.

How can we as farmers take control of the beef market? If the primary producers in the beef industry are not able to make a living out of it all this crap about harvest 2020 is a load of bo11ox.

leg wax

blue5000 wrote: »

Because we have to export so much of our beef (70-80%) we get hit when there is a surplus of beef in Europe. We are the safety valve, when it's scarce Europe comes to us.

Beef is scarce in UK right now because their suckler herd has basically been destroyed by supermarket greed. But, even though about half of our exported beef goes to the UK the benefits are not being passed back to us. The only way to boycott factories is not to put cows in calf and who is going to do that.

Standing outside the gate is no use if you have a shed of cattle to shift back in your yard.

How can we as farmers take control of the beef market? If the primary producers in the beef industry are not able to make a living out of it all this crap about harvest 2020 is a load of bo11ox.

very simple dont produce a product for them.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

blue5000

[BThanks Legs][/B] Just produce it for ourselves, or start a pet farm for retired suckler cows:P

moy83

leg wax wrote: »

very simple dont produce a product for them.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Im afraid its looking like that a reduction in the amount of beef cattle is the simplest way of making them a bit dearer , if even that will make much of a difference considering what could come in from the US .

Are you out of the sucklers leg wax ?

Farmer Pudsey

moy83 wrote: »

Im afraid its looking like that a reduction in the amount of beef cattle is the simplest way of making them a bit dearer , if even that will make much of a difference considering what could come in from the US .

Are you out of the sucklers leg wax ?

US domestic price is 3.60/kg for hormone implanted beef, Ireland is producing beef at 3.82/kg cannot see the US being compeditive at present. However I do think that over the next 5 years if dairying ties up another 30%+ more land it will impact on beef production.

I think sucklers are finished the weight limit of 400kgs and heading downwards will impact on the profitability( if it ever was) of this sector. The availibilty of cheap calves(hopefully) along with reduction of capacity may improve profitability.