New Boiler worth it ?

Vote 4 Pedro

Just looking for a little advice please,

Basic spec. is :-
1800sq.ft. bungalow, new build in 2002,
converted loft with 1 500x1400 radiator.
14 rads on the grond floor, 2 are very small and not used at all and will be removed very soon.
We have a Firebird 90/s in the utility room, regulary services by a good plumber, No problems with the boiler.
New circulation pump fitted last September.
The boiler runs the Rads and the water cylinder all together so in the summer we have to use the imersion heater for hot water.

We limit the heating to 3 hours a day because of the cost of the oil but this is nowhere near enought as there is nearly always people in the house and it can be cold enough,
The aprox. oil cost is €1800 to €2000 per year.
The central heating is the only heating in the house apart from a gas fire in the main lounge area.

The question is :-
We are thinking about upgrading the boiler to a new one, we are thinking of getting a very efficent boiler,
maybe a condenser boiler, sited outside the house.
new control system etc.
Also thinking of TRV's for almost all the rads.
I know there is a grant available but this would still be a good amount to pay and it would be hard enough to find the cash, but if it's worth doing we could do it.
and i would like to ask would this be a good inversment for us, eg. would we save much money in the long run,
could we have the heating on more without increasing the money spent on oil, would we reduce our oil bill?

Thanks for reading and your replies

scudo2

On your Firebird boiler, have a look at the panel above the burner.
Does it have a small 2" red diamond flap or does it have a small glass window to look at the flame ?
Boiler designed changed in 2002
Old useless inefficient design for over 25 years had the red flap.
The Way better new design has the glass window.
Condesing "A" rated boilers are best/better.

Your boiler is on the small size for your house. 120 would be what I would have fitted.

Old type V new Condesing boiler will save a minimum of 30% in my experience.

agusta

Vote 4 Pedro wrote: »

Just looking for a little advice please,

Basic spec. is :-
1800sq.ft. bungalow, new build in 2002,
converted loft with 1 500x1400 radiator.
14 rads on the grond floor, 2 are very small and not used at all and will be removed very soon.
We have a Firebird 90/s in the utility room, regulary services by a good plumber, No problems with the boiler.
New circulation pump fitted last September.
The boiler runs the Rads and the water cylinder all together so in the summer we have to use the imersion heater for hot water.

We limit the heating to 3 hours a day because of the cost of the oil but this is nowhere near enought as there is nearly always people in the house and it can be cold enough,
The aprox. oil cost is €1800 to €2000 per year.
The central heating is the only heating in the house apart from a gas fire in the main lounge area.

The question is :-
We are thinking about upgrading the boiler to a new one, we are thinking of getting a very efficent boiler,
maybe a condenser boiler, sited outside the house.
new control system etc.
Also thinking of TRV's for almost all the rads.
I know there is a grant available but this would still be a good amount to pay and it would be hard enough to find the cash, but if it's worth doing we could do it.
and i would like to ask would this be a good inversment for us, eg. would we save much money in the long run,
could we have the heating on more without increasing the money spent on oil, would we reduce our oil bill?

Thanks for reading and your replies

How many weeks in the year do you run the oil boiler for?.2000 euro/year for oil when the boiler is only running for 3 hours a day seem very expensive,considering its not running during the summer months.It should only cost approx 45 euro per week to run.The best boiler to buy is the grant vortex.This should save you 15 to 20 percent alone.Zones and trv,s will give you more savings

shane0007

In my opinion, a 1,800sqft house would never require a 35kw boiler.

scudo2

shane0007 wrote: »

In my opinion, a 1,800sqft house would never require a 35kw boiler.

But you would recommend a Grant 90 Vortex ?

shane0007

scudo2 wrote: »

But you would recommend a Grant 90 Vortex ?

A kw output is a kw output whether it's coming from a SE or a HE boiler. A 26kw vortex is the not the same output as a 35kw SE boiler. A 26kw vortex has the same output as a 26kw SE boiler. It will just use less fuel in achieving the same output as it will recover the latent heat from the flue gases.

That is if that is what you are referring to.

shane0007

No, I see what you mean. You are correct, just slightly amiss on the outputs.
The differences are not that big though, but I can see your train of thought.

agusta

I think the op has a firebird 90 S range boiler

shane0007

agusta wrote: »

I think the op has a firebird 90 S range boiler

Correct, which is not under-sized for the load.

scudo2

shane0007 wrote: »

Correct, which is not under-sized for the load.

I originaly asked Pedro the op, which version of boiler he had ?
As there is a major difference in efficiency between old Firebird se boiler and newer se boiler.

He has an 1800sq' bungalow WITH an attic conversion. + in my experience bunglows are harder to heat as you don't have the advantage of heat riseing to the second floor as in a two storie house.

It's just my personal experience and opinion.

scudo2

shane0007 wrote: »

In my opinion, a 1,800sqft house would never require a 35kw boiler.

My point been that I would personal think that a 90-120,000 BTU (26-35kw) boiler set at the required 90,000 is more efficient than a 70-90,000 BTU boiler set at its maximum 90,000. (26kw)



Pedro.
Which boiler do you have, glass window type, or red flap type ?

Irish Steve

based on the information we have, the first thing to be looking at is the insulation of the house, especially as it's a dormer, the heat losses from draughts, and the possible absence of any insulation under the upper floor could be costing dearly, as I know to my cost, have similar here, built by the people that trained the celtic cowboys in the early 90's

Ceiling insulation, cavity insulation, and draught proofing are all going to be a factor in getting that bill down, and then a better efficiency boiler won't have to work so hard to heat the house.

As for the benefits of a boiler change, that's going to be down to the efficiency of the present boiler compared to the efficiency of a new unit, bearing in mind the cost of the change has to be factored in to the calculation, so it could take quite a few years to recover the initial spend.

Vote 4 Pedro

Thanks for the replies and just some more info in relation to the questions been asked,

The build is Timber frame which i should have said at the start,

The boiler is the newer type i think, here is a pic to confirm.




The bungalow is not a dormer as such, still only has the folding steps up to it, but it is fully done upstairs in as much as it is plastered, painted, carpeted, roughly 16ft wide x 25ft long.
It has 2 small velux windows and one larger, just the one rad. basically a large room mainly used for storage. It has two access points into the outer loft, they are pritty much just pine board cut to size, they do not make a seal as such.
The atic space has one layer of fiberglass insulation inbetween the joists throughout, on top of the conversion aera it has kingspan boards and the then rockwood behind the walls but underneath the floor of the conversion there is no insulation at all, We use to use this room a lot but now hardly ever use it at all, it's alway to cold up there.
Down stairs the stud walls have fiberglass in them.
The window are the worst for draughts but that would be a very expencive job to replace them.
The floors are Timber in the conservatory and one other room,
Tiles in the kichen, utility and bathrooms,
Carpets in the hall, living room and all the bedrooms.

The reason i was asking about upgrading the boiler was to get more heat but it might seem that trying to keep the heat were getting more important ?
The walls to the outside always feel cold.

We live in Co. Galway up high, i'd say our site is nearly one of the highest in the county. No shelter at all, the wind and rain just seem to hit us very hard, the inlaws live just a few minuets away down the hill and it's like another climate to theres. We still have snow and ice when it's long gone everywhere else around us.

Thanks for your advice so far,

Andy

Vote 4 Pedro

Also i forgot to say the upstairs space is in top of the 1800sq.ft original house space.
so thats another 400sq.ft. Aprox.

scudo2

Vote 4 Pedro wrote: »

Thanks for the replies and just some more info in relation to the questions been asked,

The build is Timber frame which i should have said at the start,

The boiler is the newer type i think, here is a pic to confirm.




The bungalow is not a dormer as such, still only has the folding steps up to it, but it is fully done upstairs in as much as it is plastered, painted, carpeted, roughly 16ft wide x 25ft long.
It has 2 small velux windows and one larger, just the one rad. basically a large room mainly used for storage. It has two access points into the outer loft, they are pritty much just pine board cut to size, they do not make a seal as such.
The atic space has one layer of fiberglass insulation inbetween the joists throughout, on top of the conversion aera it has kingspan boards and the then rockwood behind the walls but underneath the floor of the conversion there is no insulation at all, We use to use this room a lot but now hardly ever use it at all, it's alway to cold up there.
Down stairs the stud walls have fiberglass in them.
The window are the worst for draughts but that would be a very expencive job to replace them.
The floors are Timber in the conservatory and one other room,
Tiles in the kichen, utility and bathrooms,
Carpets in the hall, living room and all the bedrooms.

The reason i was asking about upgrading the boiler was to get more heat but it might seem that trying to keep the heat were getting more important ?
The walls to the outside always feel cold.

We live in Co. Galway up high, i'd say our site is nearly one of the highest in the county. No shelter at all, the wind and rain just seem to hit us very hard, the inlaws live just a few minuets away down the hill and it's like another climate to theres. We still have snow and ice when it's long gone everywhere else around us.

Thanks for your advice so far,

Andy

Hi Andy.
You have very much answered your own questions, drafty house, drafty windows and no insulation in attic floor.

Timber frame houses are the most efficient type if draft free !!!
But they don't store much heat, and are lousy if drafty.

Window can be resealed, repaired and new hinges fitted if their PVC for a small outlay.
Boiler is reasonably good and should be adequate for a timber frame house "IF" tuned up correctly for output, silver tape is not a sign of a professional service job !
More a patch up on fire door board that should have been replaced as they only cost about €15

Can we have a close up photo of the boiler emissions that are on the printout that's taped to the boiler and maybe we can tell if it's turned ok.

Best indication is how long does the heating take for the radiator to get good 'n hot ? ( the rads, not the rooms ) ?
Thanks.

Vote 4 Pedro

unfortunatly the immissions label is unreadable so thats no help,

The radiators have all the valves open right now because i've put some Sentinel X400 sludge remover in the system as a few rads were only getting hot at the top, I'll leave it a week or so, empty and refill a few times, it might help.

With all the valves open mainly the rads nearest the boiler are very hot, and then some luke warm and some are just stone cold.

Before i opened the valves up fully the system was reasonably balanced but not perfect,
The 2 in the utility room were turned off, they were never needed.
In the spare bedroom, Loft, one in the hall and living room were set to low, so we could get some heat into the kids bedrooms, conservatory, another hall radiator and a few others.
We use the gas fire in the main living room,

The windows are awfull. we have sealed them on the outside around the frame with a flexable sealant, on the inside we have just sealed around the frame with decerators chalk.
The draufts that come from the window openings, i doubt they can be fixed, (would have to be seen to belive) i was acually thinking of sealing them up so they never open, bad idea i know but atleast that would stop the draufts.

What would you prioritise now, the outer loft insulation, or to insulate under the loft area thats above the living aera.
replacing/sealing up the doors in the loft that go into the outer loft/attic aera.
I know they all need doing but in what order would be most efficive as i'll have to do them a bit at a time, as funds allow.

This has made me think more about the acual problem now and to think i started off wanting to change the boiler, I might just shot myself !!

Thanks again.

Vote 4 Pedro

Sorry just thought of another question..

How hot should the hot water out the tap be.

I only have a glass thermomiter with a range of up to 50c and our hot water goes well post the 50c mark, I would estimate it's around 60c