My mum's diet isn't working - ideas?

miss no stars

So my mum is 54 and has been trying to fight the middle aged spread. She's not overweight but is struggling to stay that way basically and despite her best efforts very little weight is coming off and occasionally a pound goes on. Neither of us can work out what's wrong here so I'm going to put her exercise and typical daily diet below very honestly and would appreciate some suggestions about why this isn't working for her.

She's fairly active all the time between running the house and chasing around after elderly relatives etc. and she's joined the gym and has been going for about a month now. She goes to the gym about two-three times a week and sometimes does a class as well as her workout. Her workout is a warmup on the cross-trainer (she's increased recently from 10 mins to 20), then she does lat pull down, bicep curl, tricap extension, chest press, leg press, plank, crunches on an exercise ball, stretching etc. The weights she does 12x3.

Diet seems to us to be good. She counts calories and always comes in under 2000. Breakfast comes to about 300 calories and she weighs out the portions in it (granola, berries, nuts and seeds). Lunches tend to be soup and maybe two slices of brown bread (the dense stuff) with peanut butter. Usually lunch comes in around 500 calories. Dinners are healthy and small portions. White bread is pretty much gone from her diet

I just want to emphasize - she's not under-counting calories so please don't respond with that. She's not stupid or in denial about how much she's eating. She's even cut out snacking down to about 1 apple a day and has cut out supper entirely. Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts about what could be behind this for a woman of 54. She's never eaten so little in her life!

LeinsterDub

What's her bmr. 2000 calories at a guess seems too high for someone who isn't very over weight

miss no stars

Will try and get her to work out her BMR later, thanks. Thing is though, when I say her food comes in under 2000 I mean by about 200 calories. It's just so frustrating!

runawaybishop

miss no stars wrote: »

I just want to emphasize - she's not under-counting calories so please don't respond with that.

She's either undercounting calories or overcounting exercise (assuming you have requirements right) if this has been happening for more than a couple of weeks. How are you counting calories, are you tracking them somewhere?

miss no stars

runawaybishop wrote: »

She's either undercounting calories or overcounting exercise (assuming you have requirements right) if this has been happening for more than a couple of weeks. How are you counting calories, are you tracking them somewhere?

She's not under counting calories. She comes in around 1800 every day and is so careful about it. She counts by weighing out the portions and calculating how many calories are in them.

runawaybishop

miss no stars wrote: »

She's not under counting calories. She comes in around 1800 every day and is so careful about it. She counts by weighing out the portions and calculating how many calories are in them.

Then she is overcounting her exercise, again assuming her requirements are correct.

LeinsterDub

miss no stars wrote: »

Will try and get her to work out her BMR later, thanks. Thing is though, when I say her food comes in under 2000 I mean by about 200 calories. It's just so frustrating!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=50956807&postcount=4


Taking a complete stab in the dark here but if she's 64kg or 10 stone then
we get

31-60 (bw (64) * 8.7) + 829 =1385.8

mostly seated or standing 1385.8* 1.4 1940.12

For weight loss: You need to reduce your calories by about 15% a day:
1940.12 * 0.85 = 1649.102 cals/ day.

So she's eating too much if this example . You need to do the maths and figure out the actual number

miss no stars

LeinsterDub wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=50956807&postcount=4


Taking a complete stab in the dark here but if she's 64kg or 10 stone then
we get

31-60 (bw (64) * 8.7) + 829 =1385.8

mostly seated or standing 1385.8* 1.4 1940.12

For weight loss: You need to reduce your calories by about 15% a day:
1940.12 * 0.85 = 1649.102 cals/ day.

So she's eating too much if this example . You need to do the maths and figure out the actual number

Thanks, that's really helpful for putting a figure on weight loss calorie requirements. Her BMI is on the upper end of the healthy range (she'd kill me if I used the actual numbers here!) and for weight loss she'd need to eat about 1800 a day so the frustrating bit is that she is eating 1800 a day and the weight is still creeping up gradually... I feel so bad for her because she's been soooo strict with it and the weight is still creeping up. It just makes no sense, if you saw the small portions she's eating... I wouldn't even survive (but then I'm a hungry person).

Like, even allowing for assumptions in those rules about BMR calculations, at 1800 calories a day and reasonably active (not spending the day at a desk or anything, she's up and about and moving most of the day) it's so hard to see why weight is going ON and not even just staying the same. It's just confusing and frustrating.

Is there any way of actually speeding up her metabolism? Like it seems as if it's just gone so slow in the last year, maybe due to her age and stage of life?

runawaybishop

miss no stars wrote: »

and for weight loss she'd need to eat about 1800 a day so the frustrating bit is that she is eating 1800 a day and the weight is still creeping up gradually...

You agree that there is clearly something amiss then? If 1800 is less than maintenance for her then she is not eating 1800 if she is putting on weight.

miss no stars

runawaybishop wrote: »

You agree that there is clearly something amiss then? If 1800 is less than maintenance for her then she is not eating 1800 if she is putting on weight.

Yeah absolutely there's something amiss otherwise I wouldn't be posting here! :P

Personally I wonder if it might be a hormonal effect given her age? Also, her mother and aunt have thyroid problems but they're so notoriously difficult to pin down in testing... I know medical advice can't be given so I wasn't trying to bring it down that road. I'd much rather rule out every other possibility first and try everything.

I'd just like to see if there's anything out there that we're missing, like ways to improve metabolism (I don't know if it's true but I was under the impression that stodgy foods like pizza and all that slow down metabolism so maybe there's something good for metabolism?) or if she should be doing different weight reps or whatever, or should she be eating 6-7 times a day instead of 3 meals, or if she's under-eating and sent her body into famine mode (does this exist?), or if anyone else had experienced similar? Nutrition isn't something we'd know much about beyond the basics of normal portion size and trying to eat healthy fats and protein and veg and having small portions of carbs with it.

I'm not trying to be dismissive or anything, it's just that it's getting to a very frustrating point of months of effort and weight still going on. Even if it stopped going on it'd be something! :P

runawaybishop

miss no stars wrote: »

Yeah absolutely there's something amiss otherwise I wouldn't be posting here! :P

Personally I wonder if it might be a hormonal effect given her age? Also, her mother and aunt have thyroid problems but they're so notoriously difficult to pin down in testing... I know medical advice can't be given so I wasn't trying to bring it down that road. I'd much rather rule out every other possibility first and try everything.

I'd just like to see if there's anything out there that we're missing, like ways to improve metabolism (I don't know if it's true but I was under the impression that stodgy foods like pizza and all that slow down metabolism so maybe there's something good for metabolism?) or if she should be doing different weight reps or whatever, or should she be eating 6-7 times a day instead of 3 meals, or if she's under-eating and sent her body into famine mode (does this exist?), or if anyone else had experienced similar? Nutrition isn't something we'd know much about beyond the basics of normal portion size and trying to eat healthy fats and protein and veg and having small portions of carbs with it.

I'm not trying to be dismissive or anything, it's just that it's getting to a very frustrating point of months of effort and weight still going on. Even if it stopped going on it'd be something! :P

I appreciate it is probably very frustrating and I am not trying to lecture but honestly, it is highly likely calories are not being counted right. I know you said there were but unless you are with her 24/7 and measuring everything you don't really know. People often do not count the calories in tea or coffee, for example.

If she has a thyroid issue she needs to see a doctor, there is not much we can do here. Lets assume this isn't the case though.

With regards to increasing metabolism, in short - no. Eating 7 meals a day or 3 will not assist really except it may make her feel fuller for longer and by extension eat less. What you can do though is increase calorie requirements by activity/exercise through a combination of cardio and resistance training and body re-composition. Resistance training in particular is very beneficial as it burns a lot of calories and also increases your calorie requirements.

Ensuring your Mums' macros are correct will also be beneficial - most likely this means eating more protein and cutting down on carbs. The forum stickies go over this stuff, take a look if you haven't already.

When it comes down to it if you are gaining weight you are eating over your requirements. You need to either change your requirements (e.g exercise more) or eat less. You don't really need to track your BMR and count calories, you just need to eat less than you did before.

LeinsterDub

runawaybishop wrote: »

When it comes down to it if you are gaining weight you are eating over your requirements. You need to either change your requirements (e.g exercise more) or eat less. You don't really need to track your BMR and count calories, you just need to eat less than you did before.

I get what your saying but it isn't that simple , to be hyperbolic , previous i ate a 1kg of raw carrots and now I eat 900g of mars bar, i'm eating less but I'm getting more calories by some degree .

Alf Veedersane

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I get what your saying but it isn't that simple , to be hyperbolic , previous i ate a 1kg of raw carrots and now I eat 900g of mars bar, i'm eating less but I'm getting more calories by some degree .

By eating lesss, he meant less calories. Not less by weight.

runawaybishop

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I get what your saying but it isn't that simple , to be hyperbolic , previous i ate a 1kg of raw carrots and now I eat 900g of mars bar, i'm eating less but I'm getting more calories by some degree .

Thats some leap

Typer Monkey

How is she counting the calories? Is she using myfitnesspal or similar? If she isn't it might help with accurate logging. It also breaks down your macros for you.

Also the calorie requirement is by it's nature a generalisation. If she's eating 1800 and putting on weight then her maintenance is less than this. I lost weight after having a baby and I was eating 1200 a day. I wasn't initially doing any training just minding a baby and looking after the house etc. I personally think my maintence calories is around 1500. 1200 is very low but maybe if she tried eating even 1500 and seeing how she goes?

LeinsterDub

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

By eating lesss, he meant less calories. Not less by weight.

That wasn't clear (at least to me) especially as he said not to count calories. One mistake people make is eating less by weight not realising it's more in terms of calories.

Sorry if I took you up wrong.

Alf Veedersane

LeinsterDub wrote: »

That wasn't clear (at least to me) especially as he said not to count calories.

Just in terms of being anal about counting every calorie.

oscar_mike

The most likely reason for her lack of weigh loss is that you guys mis-calculated her recommended amount of calories for the day. It might be lower for her. 1800-2000 cals is an average figure and applies mostly to individuals with a healthy BMI getting regular exercise consisting of 3-4 hours at moderate intensity.

Try a 1500 calorie diet, its very manageable if you eat filling foods.

Konata

Is that 1800 calories every day or does she eat more on the days she exercises? Online calculators/treadmills etc. usually overestimate the amount of calories burnt. If she's estimating that she's burning 400 calories from a workout for example and then eats an extra 400 calories (i.e. 2200 calories that day) that could be a reason for not losing weight. It'd be unlikely she actually burnt 400 calories.

As other posters have said, calculators that tell you how many calories to eat for weight loss/maintenance etc. aren't 100% exact. If you're 100% certain that every calorie is being correctly counted for and that she isn't overestimating exercise burns and have been doing 1800 calories for a while without losing any weight then lower the number slightly (try 1600 first maybe) and try that for a while.

I would recommend seeing a doctor anyway though as there could be an underlying problem if ye really are doing everything by the book and she's gaining weight at a calories figure much less than what her maintenance calories should be.

Oryx

I know, I know, she isn't under-counting her calories... but make sure she isn't being cheated by eating something she thinks is ok, which isn't. Like hidden calories in her granola, which often is full of sugar (why it tastes so nice). Personally I think she would be better off getting her breakfast calories from something like eggs anyway, and eating chicken slices instead of that brown bread with her soup.

Has she noticed weight going on by her shape, or is it just the scales?

Mellor

miss no stars wrote: »

Breakfast comes to about 300 calories and she weighs out the portions in it (granola, berries, nuts and seeds).

Are you sure its less than 300 cals. That's a tiny portion on granola, with nuts, seeds, milk on top.

Lunches tend to be soup and maybe two slices of brown bread (the dense stuff) with peanut butter. Usually lunch comes in around 500 calories.

What kind soup?
Two slices of brown bread and peanut butter could be close to 500, so if it was a low cal tomato soup might be 500, but any sort of thick or creamy soup would be higher imo.

As you say, she isn't underestimating, but maybe the figure she is aiming for is off.

miss no stars wrote: »

Her BMI is on the upper end of the healthy range (she'd kill me if I used the actual numbers here!) and for weight loss she'd need to eat about 1800

If you won't post her weight, then you can't really expect any sort of useful advice.

1800 Sounds quite high to me unless she is quite big.

Mellor

LeinsterDub wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=50956807&postcount=4


Taking a complete stab in the dark here but if she's 64kg or 10 stone then
we get

31-60 (bw (64) * 8.7) + 829 =1385.8

mostly seated or standing 1385.8* 1.4 1940.12

For weight loss: You need to reduce your calories by about 15% a day:
1940.12 * 0.85 = 1649.102 cals/ day.

That's a good start, but the post is quite old, and there's a few mistakes in it. It tends to over estimate the calories. In particular the activity levels, the only options in that post are 1.4/1.7/2.0, whereas the harris formula uses 1.2, 1.375, 1.55, 1.725, 1.9

Even though the OP's mother is going to the gym a bit, its also unlikely that her intensity is that high.

So 1385 x 1.2 = 1660 might be a more accurate figure for maintenance for some thats 64kg.

mkdon05

All calories are not equal. A good place to start is by counting her sugar intake. That's the figure that needs to be carefully monitored and reduced.

miss no stars

I've started logging calories in myfitnesspal just to make sure. Yesterday she came in under 1600 calories so will keep going with it... Should also be handy for calculating the sugar intake. Will have to build up a database of food on it though, some of what I've seen on it isn't right by a mile (apparently boiled ham has no protein!).

Breakfast has been weighed and calculated by the values given on the packages. Milk is slimline stuff and she barely uses any of it.
Soup is usually homemade - just stock and veg - or if shop bought, it's fresh stuff and each half-pot (which is all she'd have) is about 125 calories. Plus, the brown bread and peanut butter is most certainly not 500 calories. Again, weighed the bread and calculated calories by nutritional values on pack and measured out the peanut butter (1tsp between the 2 slices).

Maybe the myfitnesspal will shed light on the matter, but even if it doesn't it's something she can print out and make a doctor look at when they inevitably claim she's just not counting the calories correctly or fooling herself!

Will suggest to her the idea of chicken slices with the soup.

Thanks for the help. Sorry if I'm coming across a bit cranky, I do appreciate the advice. Also (hope she doesn't see this) her weight is 68kg and she's just over 5'6, hence in the healthy range but only just. This time last year she was 64kg and had been eating a lot more and maintaining that weight for years, then all of a sudden lbs just appear and keep on appearing no matter how much she increases her activity (80 minute hill walk if she doesn't go to the gym) and decreasing her food intake to pretty much kid portions.

Alf Veedersane

miss no stars wrote: »

Will have to build up a database of food on it though, some of what I've seen on it isn't right by a mile (apparently boiled ham has no protein!)

If you just put in 'boiled ham' a lot of options come up. Check that the option you pick looks right. I just picked a generic slice of deli boiled ham and it came in at 8g of protein.
Just worth noting that some options might be put in incorrectly. Fell foul of that at the start myself.

miss no stars

Yeah it's a bit annoying. Sitting here plugging in nutritional info for everything cos I just don't trust it :P

Alf Veedersane

I wouldn't go to that extent. Just look at what's in their database already. 99% of the stuff I've ever used has checked out.

Orla K

The best thing she can do is eat real food, this is even more important if she has a thyroid problem. This will mean no musli most are full of crap, no skimmed milk overly processed, watch the ingredients in the peanut butter actually peanuts and almonds can reduce thyroid functioning so take in a minimal amount of them a great nut for thyroid are Brazil nuts. Bread and gluten would have to go if its an autoimmune form of thyroid problem then it can cause problems and with other close relatives its likely. I can't remember what else their was in the diet but its also important to not eat to little as this can down regulate thyroid functioning.

I will end in saying that I think a good course of action would be to follow other advice here if that doesn't work then print out the the diet and go to the doctor. Try your best to get a full thyroid panel including ft3 and thyroid antibodies. It will be likely that even if the doctor requests them that the lab won't do then if the tsh is 'in range' or if its not an endo requesting. Another thing to have the doctor check is for nodules. But you probably know most of that. If all else fails or if the thyroid hormones are out follow my advice and see where it gets you. Also have a look at stop the thyroid madness. Get a copy of your lab results and have a look at the numbers yourself because there's optimal and then there's in range.

trishasaffron

this thread caught my eye because I too am a 50+ woman who is finding it increasingly difficult to keep my weight at manageable levels without reducing my diet to impracticable levels. I'd love to think there is a magic bullet somewhere in the thyroid/hormones mix but in reality I think its the boring equation of calories+activity. I've only lost weight by a rigid and unsustainable reduction of intake including avoidance of all alcohol that severely affected other areas of my life. So my formula is to try and keep below 600 calories for breakfast and lunch combined and then enjoy my evenings with about 1000 calories in play for socialising over food and wine - I never snack or drink fizzy drinks - cal free or not. I try for an average of 1 hour brisk walking a day and one day of hiking ( I would and used to do more but back and knee problem hinder that).

Here is a link to a guardian article which basically says we under report calories and over report exercise - sounds familiar
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/reality-check/2014/feb/26/why--overweight