OAD scour

Reggie.

I moved calves onto OAD feeding. Im giving them 3 litres each and since i started two days ago 4 of the 6 developed a scour. They were getting 2 litres each twice a day for a few days till i moved to OAD. Should i just ease off the powder in the milk for a few days? Currently mixing it at 600g of powder per 3 litres

theaceofspies

600g sounds a bit high for powder content - is the scour white in colour? If so it's probably nutrional scour and this might indeed be the cause of the problem. Best to re-check the directions on the milk replacer bag.

bbam

I'd agree recheck the mix. Ensure your mixing it thoroughly and at the correct temperature.

Silly question, is the milk replacer definitely suitable for OAD

I wouldn't be a fan of OAD but you need to understand the theory. Unless I've got it all wrong.
The milk should form a crud in the stomach that the calf feeds of. If this isn't happening they will scour.


Here's an example.
There is a big difference in;
adding 600g to 3litres hot water
OR
Add 600g to hot water to make 3litres

The difference can be up to 15% variance in concentration and would be sufficient to stop the crud forming or leave a calf struggling to digest it. It's the most commonly overlooked mistake in milk replacer usage.

Reggie.

theaceofspies wrote: »

600g sounds a bit high for powder content - is the scour white in colour? If so it's probably nutrional scour and this might indeed be the cause of the problem. Best to re-check the directions on the milk replacer bag.

Yeah its whiteish and even a bit of it is yellow. Might just pull back on the powder a bit

Greengrass1

I started OAD this year. Twice a day until two weeks of age then skip the evening feed next morning they get 2l each and 500g off milk powder. Works out at nearly 2.5l I leave them at that for a few days and then I up it buy one scoup every two days.
Works well and have no scours.
I find if they are eating any meal at all they tend not to get scours

Reggie.

bbam wrote: »

I'd agree recheck the mix. Ensure your mixing it thoroughly and at the correct temperature.

Silly question, is the milk replacer definitely suitable for OAD

I wouldn't be a fan of OAD but you need to understand the theory. Unless I've got it all wrong.
The milk should form a crud in the stomach that the calf feeds of. If this isn't happening they will scour.


Here's an example.
There is a big difference in;
adding 600g to 3litres hot water
OR
Add 600g to hot water to make 3litres

The difference can be up to 15% variance in concentration and would be sufficient to stop the crud forming or leave a calf struggling to digest it. It's the most commonly overlooked mistake in milk replacer usage.

Good point

lakill Farm

call the vet but a drop of bimastat might just sort them out

bbam

In itself a bit of nutritional scour (if thats what this is) is no real harm, change of feeding routine or feed type can cause it..

However, its what you could class a "gateway" condition in that if it goes on too long it weakens the calf and their digestion system and leave the susceptible to many other organisms which are far more sinister.. Pneumonia and coccidosis in particular will move in on a weakened calf.. Watch them tight !!

Might be worth taking their temperatures to ensure there's nothing else going on in the background..

Reggie.

bbam wrote: »

In itself a bit of nutritional scour (if thats what this is) is no real harm, change of feeding routine or feed type can cause it..

However, its what you could class a "gateway" condition in that if it goes on too long it weakens the calf and their digestion system and leave the susceptible to many other organisms which are far more sinister.. Pneumonia and coccidosis in particular will move in on a weakened calf.. Watch them tight !!

Might be worth taking their temperatures to ensure there's nothing else going on in the background..

they were fine before yesterday when i moved to once a day and only noticed it this morning so has to be the extra milk

Reggie.

lakill Farm wrote: »

call the vet but a drop of bimastat might just sort them out

ah ill give them the scour tablet and that should sort them but rather hold off as i want to see will it go by itself i.e i get the mix right as i dont want to be guessing if it was the mix or the tablet that stopped the scour

Reggie.

bbam wrote: »

In itself a bit of nutritional scour (if thats what this is) is no real harm, change of feeding routine or feed type can cause it..

However, its what you could class a "gateway" condition in that if it goes on too long it weakens the calf and their digestion system and leave the susceptible to many other organisms which are far more sinister.. Pneumonia and coccidosis in particular will move in on a weakened calf.. Watch them tight !!

Might be worth taking their temperatures to ensure there's nothing else going on in the background..

should be ok as they are in a good shed, if no clear up in day or two ill just give them the scour tablet and return to twice a day feeding.

Reggie.

Scours seems to be clearing up itself. Fed this morning as per green grass and seems to doing ok so far. Also noticed that the calves seem more interested in the meal and hay since two days ago

bbam

I would sometimes feed some kaolin powder for scour.. I've mixed 2 or 3 heaped tablespoon in a large carton of natural youghert with warm water and down the gullet !!
Culture in the youghert helps the stomach/digestion and the kaolin powder is the binding agent in all the scour tablets, just cheaper.

Greengrass1

bbam wrote: »

I would sometimes feed some kaolin powder for scour.. I've mixed 2 or 3 heaped tablespoon in a large carton of natural youghert with warm water and down the gullet !!
Culture in the youghert helps the stomach/digestion and the kaolin powder is the binding agent in all the scour tablets, just cheaper.

I feed a higher concentrate of it than that 2.5 spoon fulls in 60ml dosing syringe.
Clears them up in a day.

Reggie.

bbam wrote: »

I would sometimes feed some kaolin powder for scour.. I've mixed 2 or 3 heaped tablespoon in a large carton of natural youghert with warm water and down the gullet !!
Culture in the youghert helps the stomach/digestion and the kaolin powder is the binding agent in all the scour tablets, just cheaper.

Where would ya get the powder

Greengrass1

Reggie. wrote: »

Where would ya get the powder

Any local Agri chemists to ye?
We have a local one here. Has a load of old cures for animals and new ones.
Think greggcare have some also

Reggie.

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Any local Agri chemists to ye?
We have a local one here. Has a load of old cures for animals and new ones.
Think greggcare have some also

Just a vet store, maybe they might stock it

bbam

Reggie. wrote: »

Where would ya get the powder

Yea..
We get it in local chemist, the one that has always dealt in animal remidies rather than the other chemist that deals in nothing only perfume and other tat :rolleyes:

O2b

bbam wrote: »

I would sometimes feed some kaolin powder for scour.. I've mixed 2 or 3 heaped tablespoon in a large carton of natural youghert with warm water and down the gullet !!
Culture in the youghert helps the stomach/digestion and the kaolin powder is the binding agent in all the scour tablets, just cheaper.

How do you feed the yougurt, Dosing syringe i presume seems as ur mixing with water?

How often would you give that to them?

bbam

O2b wrote: »

How do you feed the yougurt, Dosing syringe i presume seems as ur mixing with water?

How often would you give that to them?

Couple times a day.
In bottle with teat

Dunedin

bbam wrote: »

Silly question, is the milk replacer definitely suitable for OAD

I wouldn't be a fan of OAD but you need to understand the theory.

a few questions on this:

I am using Maverick - is this suitable for OAD?

What age can you move to OAD?

Why are you not a fan of OAD and what is the theory?

_Brian

Dunedin wrote: »

a few questions on this:

I am using Maverick - is this suitable for OAD?

What age can you move to OAD?

Why are you not a fan of OAD and what is the theory?

Its only suitable if the bag state clearly that it is.. Check the back of the bag.

Maybe I'm too old school but the OAD is just too far away from natural feeding..

OAD works on the idea that the milk consumed will form a crud of milk in the stomach which the calf feed of for the remaining of the 24 hours.

Now, seeing the problems that lads have mixing milk properly I'd be worried about the crud forming properly.

I quoted an example before, take the difference in these instructions..

1. Add powder to water to make up 2L of milk.
2. Add powder to 2L of water.

These are very different instructions and if you mix up the instructions you'll be maybe 10-12% wrong in the concentration of the mix, for OAD this may mean the crud not forming properly.


Also, you're going to need to be seeing calves more than once a day anyway and if you have a decent set up its just as handy to make feed the second time. Now, I find its handier to see a sick/poorly calf at feeding time as they won't be as lively to the trough or just not feed properly. For us we can feed maybe 20 calves in about 15 minutes, and thats with a fairly amature setup. (no calves this year for "other" reasons)

ganmo

_Brian wrote: »

Its only suitable if the bag state clearly that it is.. Check the back of the bag.

Maybe I'm too old school but the OAD is just too far away from natural feeding..
Natural feeding is calf getting fed 12(+-4)times from the cow

OAD works on the idea that the milk consumed will form a crud of milk in the stomach which the calf feed of for the remaining of the 24 hours.

Now, seeing the problems that lads have mixing milk properly I'd be worried about the crud forming properly.

I quoted an example before, take the difference in these instructions..

1. Add powder to water to make up 2L of milk.
2. Add powder to 2L of water.

These are very different instructions and if you mix up the instructions you'll be maybe 10-12% wrong in the concentration of the mix, for OAD this may mean the crud not forming properly.


Also, you're going to need to be seeing calves more than once a day anyway and if you have a decent set up its just as handy to make feed the second time. Now, I find its handier to see a sick/poorly calf at feeding time as they won't be as lively to the trough or just not feed properly. For us we can feed maybe 20 calves in about 15 minutes, and thats with a fairly amature setup. (no calves this year for "other" reasons)

My point is that feeding twice is already fairly far from natural

I'd always spot poor animals when they're relaxed(or more when the rest of the pen is relaxed) easier to spot the heavy breather etc