Celica GT4, bangeromics or banger?

pippip

260bhp (apparently, would want rolling road proof)
Lovely 8000k headlights (first thing I'd alter)
136km (seems too low for a 96 but you never know)

Given description seems well kept and looked after by enthusiastic owner
€1234 (might be a joke price)



http://www.adverts.ie/car/toyota/celica/1996-toyota-celica-for-sale/4880009

fl4pj4ck

I think it belongs in the dreamer's thread

unkel

pippip wrote: »

€1234 (might be a joke price)

Asking price now €3,200. That's a joke price for sure

Dreaheheheming, drea-he-he-ming, dreaheheheming

CianRyan

fl4pj4ck wrote: »

I think it belongs in the dreamer's thread

That says to me you don't know a lot (anything) about Celicas.
The GT4 is a homologation car, it was released along with the Cossie Escort and as good as the ford was, it just wasn't as good as the Toyota.

That thing will put down 260bhp all day and it won't give out.
They're a serious car for people that aren't just drawn to a badge.

"An old Toyota? Oh it must be scrap..."

cadaliac

CianRyan wrote: »

That says to me you don't know a lot (anything) about Celicas.
The GT4 is a homologation car, it was released along with the Cossie Escort and as good as the ford was, it just wasn't as good as the Toyota.

That thing will put down 260bhp all day and it won't give out.
They're a serious car for people that aren't just drawn to a badge.

"An old Toyota? Oh it must be scrap..."

@ €3,200, it belongs in the dreamers thread. Very much so.

CianRyan

cadaliac wrote: »

@ €3,200, it belongs in the dreamers thread. Very much so.

For what reasons? Other than a blind statement and a sheepish attitude.

bear1

The guy can put whatever price he wants for the car.
For me it's expensive and obviously for others, but there are people out there that would view that as a very good price.
It's only worth what someone is willing to pay for it... If he gets that price, well done to him.
Actually the more I think of it, I wonder if he put the price up so that genuine buyers only would call?

cadaliac

CianRyan wrote: »

For what reasons? Other than a blind statement and a sheepish attitude.

What year is the car? You can get a much better fresher car for that money. Anyway, I'm not getting into a pissing contest with you about blind sheep and attitudes. I got flamed before for my own opinions about what should or shouldn't qualify for the bangernomics thread. So, this is my opinion.
You seem to imply that if it's not in line with your opinion, it a blind sheep blah blah blah....
You are a part of the reason I don't post too much here anymore. Before this escalates, I am not having a go at you personally Cain, but people seem get flamed for opinions, which I was guilty of myself at one point. But, nowadays, anything under €2k (which) the Celica isn't btw, or an opinion on cheap cars, the poster gets it, for effectively voicing their opinion. It's not a fun place to post anymore. In my opinion of course.

fl4pj4ck

CianRyan wrote: »

That says to me you don't know a lot (anything) about Celicas.
The GT4 is a homologation car, it was released along with the Cossie Escort and as good as the ford was, it just wasn't as good as the Toyota.

That thing will put down 260bhp all day and it won't give out.
They're a serious car for people that aren't just drawn to a badge.

"An old Toyota? Oh it must be scrap..."

I don't **have** to know much about celicas to see this is not bangernomics

Drummerboy08

CianRyan wrote: »

That says to me you don't know a lot (anything) about Celicas.
The GT4 is a homologation car, it was released along with the Cossie Escort and as good as the ford was, it just wasn't as good as the Toyota.

The GT4 is a good car, and I even considered one as a toy recently but it isnt even on the same page as an Escort Cosworth.

In saying that, I would pay up to 4k for a very good GT4.

EazyD

Without seeing it in person with verified papers and odometer check, no one can say for sure whether it's worth the money or not. If it checks out as described in the OP then it seems reasonable to me.

Personally I'd love one, second only to a Supra of course.

Greyfoot

If the superstrut was done recently its well worth a view, that should be your first question over the phone. They cracking cars, you can have one for a lot less, but they 99% knackered/trashed.

djimi

cadaliac wrote: »

What year is the car? You can get a much better fresher car for that money.

The year is utterly irrelevant to a car like that in fairness. He is asking for €3k and I would be amazed if he doesnt get very close to it (assuming the car is actually clean and in good nick).

JohnBoy26

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

The GT4 is a good car, and I even considered one as a toy recently but it isnt even on the same page as an Escort Cosworth.

In saying that, I would pay up to 4k for a very good GT4.

The gt4 is no where near as far off the escort as you make out, in fact I dont think it was off the escort at all in terms of power.

while Both cars are very similar in terms of performance, the build quality of the Toyota is a good bit better than the escort imo.

Wibbs

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

The gt4 is no where near as far off the escort as you make out, in fact I dont think it was off the escort at all in terms of power.

while Both cars are very similar in terms of performance, the build quality of the Toyota is a good bit better than the escort imo.

Id agree on both points. Having driven both cars there wouldn't be that much in it at all IMH and both can be further tuned into crazy wild eyed territory. The GT4 felt heavier though, loaded up on bends more than the Ford. The Ford felt more planted to me. Build quality it would be well ahead of the Ford. The latter also suffered greatly from the tin worm. The Cossie will always have it on history, iconography and rarity though and given the choice I'd take Ford Pinto on 'roids any day of the week..

Yer mans car might be worth the money if it's in really good order, with mostly standard parts and not backward baseball capped up too much. Can't be many left these days. It would want to be in really good order mind you, not the all too common "ah well the panels are straight Boss" type "good order". One man's great condition is often another man's break it for spares. The undershot of the floor pan would bear more scrutiny for me. Seems to be a lot of engine oily stuff on one side. It'll stop rust but...

Greyfoot

An ST205 GT4 is a seriously capable machine so is the Ford, they basically in the same class as performance goes, rally wins puts the edge on the GT4.

In everyday driving the Escort had much more problems, while the Celica was always considered fairly reliable except the superstrut meant to rebuilt every odd 60k if memory serves well.

cadaliac

djimi wrote: »

The year is utterly irrelevant to a car like that in fairness. He is asking for €3k and I would be amazed if he doesnt get very close to it (assuming the car is actually clean and in good nick).

He is/was asking €3,200. Not €3000. Yes, fair enough if it is a minter, he will get close, but, as you say, you are assuming.
Age is very relevant, prices reflect this. Fact. So, it's not utterly irrevelent.
It's a small market for such a car.

Northern Monkey

Greyfoot wrote: »

An ST205 GT4 is a seriously capable machine so is the Ford, they basically in the same class as performance goes, rally wins puts the edge on the GT4.

In everyday driving the Escort had much more problems, while the Celica was always considered fairly reliable except the superstrut meant to rebuilt every odd 60k if memory serves well.

More wins for the celica, but not without controversy.

http://crasstalk.com/2011/03/cheatins-still-winnin-the-story-of-toyota-racings-best-cheat-ever/

djimi

cadaliac wrote: »

He is/was asking €3,200. Not €3000. Yes, fair enough if it is a minter, he will get close, but, as you say, you are assuming.
Age is very relevant, prices reflect this. Fact. So, it's not utterly irrevelent.
It's a small market for such a car.

Dont be pedantic ffs.

Age is not relevent; its a Celica GT-Four, not an 18 year old car. Those sort of cars do not depreciate based on age at that stage; only desirablility dictates the price (and condition obviously). If someone wants a GT-Four and if a clean one is hard to come by then they will pay it; its not like its a standard 18 year old car that we are talking about.

Im saying "if" its in good nick then its worth that. Obviously if its a crock then its worth less, but we dont know that from just looking at it. It could be worth the asking price though; thats the point.

CianRyan

As far as cheating in Rally goes, that's the name of the game. Pick apart the rule book for any hole and exploit it.

EazyD

cadaliac wrote: »

He is/was asking €3,200. Not €3000. Yes, fair enough if it is a minter, he will get close, but, as you say, you are assuming.
Age is very relevant, prices reflect this. Fact. So, it's not utterly irrevelent.
It's a small market for such a car.

Rare examples like a GT-4/Cosworth are rarely subject to the age-price trend your suggesting (unless of course they are in rag condition).

fl4pj4ck

CianRyan wrote: »

Someone has to stand up for the cars when idiots spout bull**** pub talk about them.
It brings the forum down, way down.


As far as cheating in Rally goes, that's the name of the game. Pick apart the rule book for any hole and exploit it.

what bull? a simple statement of the fact, this car priced at e3200 far from bangernomics

Mycroft H

I don't rightly know if thats as clean and as un-abused as some people make out. That and the stupid big alloys are putting me off.

Supergurrier

A lot of clueless people in this thread and wannabe trolls.

Its a GT4 offs not a corolla 1.4.

MortGoldman

Lol, really shows some people don't appreciate the pedigree behind some cars.

3k is a very reasonable price for a clean GT4 IMO. A 'fresher' car can be bought indeed, like a newer Clio or something. I know which I'd have

wotzgoingon

Does anyone remember the other GTfour someone posted last week or two weeks ago. I can't find it. I just want to see how much the other cars owner is or was looking for it.

Northern Monkey

CianRyan wrote: »

Someone has to stand up for the cars when idiots spout bull**** pub talk about them.
It brings the forum down, way down.


As far as cheating in Rally goes, that's the name of the game. Pick apart the rule book for any hole and exploit it.

I'm a huge fan of the GT4 (toyed with buying a sainz edition a few years ago) but it wasn't exploiting a hole in the rule book, it was out and out cheating.

wotzgoingon

I found the other GTfour and it is more resonably priced.
http://www.adverts.ie/car/toyota/celica/1995-toyota-celica-gt4-for-sale/4730506

power pants

wotzgoingon wrote: »

I found the other GTfour and it is more resonably priced.
http://www.adverts.ie/car/toyota/celica/1995-toyota-celica-gt4-for-sale/4730506

good finding;)

Mycroft H

wotzgoingon wrote: »

I found the other GTfour and it is more resonably priced.
http://www.adverts.ie/car/toyota/celica/1995-toyota-celica-gt4-for-sale/4730506

Much better. Nicer colour too

Alanstrainor

Thread cleaned up. Any more trolling from the those posters and bans will be given.

YbFocus

I think its amazing how little money these go for and any kind of condition escort goes for multiples more!
I'd pick that over a Cosworth at that price!

Stavros Murphy

YbFocus wrote: »

I think its amazing how little money these go for and any kind of condition escort goes for multiples more!
I'd pick that over a Cosworth at that price!

I have the 2l version, almost identical car, but not a Gt4. Brilliant, brilliant cars IMO and worth whatever you need to give to get one. Undervalued, underrated, over-delivering future classics - if that was a rot-box MG with a wheeze box engine, everyone would be saying how cheap it was.

cadaliac

djimi wrote: »

The year is utterly irrelevant to a car like that in fairness. He is asking for €3k and I would be amazed if he doesnt get very close to it (assuming the car is actually clean and in good nick).

Re-read my post. I agreed that they would get close to that money.
Age is not irrelevant.

djimi

cadaliac wrote: »

Re-read my post. I agreed that they would get close to that money.
Age is not irrelevant.

My point about its age is that it doesnt exactly matter if its 18 years old or 15 or 20; chances are the price is not going to be much different, and the price is not a reflection of age, but rather the car itself, its condition and how many like it are available on the market.

Wibbs

Mycroft H wrote: »

Much better. Nicer colour too

+1 M. Looks to be in the sort of condition that would appeal more to a collector type too. Mostly original and we get to see the interior and more of the car overall.

YbFocus wrote: »

I think its amazing how little money these go for and any kind of condition escort goes for multiples more!

Rarity would be a big part of that Y. Cossies were never really that common. The Japanese stuff tends to be more common on our roads, or was, so there is more the perception of easy to get. The joke is there are probably fewer all original concours quality GT4's stored in sheds than there are Escort Cosworths.

The Jap stuff also suffers from the boyracer imported "starlets" label, which colours the whole market, so that drops the price. Sportier cars tend to go through a trajectory from new. Highly valued then depreciate in the secondhand market and finally they reach a point where young lads and lasses can afford them. When they reach that level they usually tend to be personalised more, crash more and are usually run ragged by the end. The Irish boom coincided with this level(as did the massive rise of JDM imports), where younger folks could buy, tax and insure even crazy yokes. When cossies were around is was usually middle aged farts like me that could afford to drive them(and even then) Then finally you end up in the "broken for parts" level where it makes more economical sense.

There can be a final level reached. Where certain cars were considered common, in numbers and label, disappear from the road, sometimes people can go "eh hang on" about certain iconic models and then can find it damned hard to find a good un and prices go up for unmolested examples.

That said IMHO that's less likely for the Irish market as a general rule. We've far less of a classic car culture here, compared to the UK say. Sure there is a very vibrant community here but as an overal thing in Irish car thinking, there is a lot of the element of "sure it's an old yoke, why would you want that" going on. There are prices differences here compared to the UK for certain JDM stuff and I think that's a reflection of that(and their much larger population).

The market makes such a diff. EG my car, Honda teg type R, I'd be blessed to get 3 or 4 grand for it here and likely much less, but I'd get that in the UK. Broken for bits I'd get more for it in the UK too. If I could legally import it to the US of A(sadly you can't) a JDM R fully road legal and titled would net more like 15 thousand dollars. 10-12 K is an average price for a USDM R in the market and there's a culture of rebuilding them from wrecked or stolen chassis and spending big money to do so. I PM'd a Californian dude I know on forums over there and linked him some examples from donedeal here and I could hear his jaw drop from across the planet. Hell I can see a day when Japanese enthusiasts will be looking to overseas where their classics went back in the day(prices are already rising there for good examples of 90's fancy stuff).


TL;DR? IMHO that white one is a beaut and a helluva lot of car at that money and if you can afford to run it, then it would be a bloody bargain, cos one day there'll be very few and any left will be pricey.

cadaliac

djimi wrote: »

My point about its age is that it doesnt exactly matter if its 18 years old or 15 or 20; chances are the price is not going to be much different, and the price is not a reflection of age, but rather the car itself, its condition and how many like it are available on the market.

Yes I agree with you, but age is still relevant. To say age is utter irrelevant is simply not true.

EazyD

cadaliac wrote: »

Yes I agree with you, but age is still relevant. To say age is utter irrelevant is simply not true.

It is of minimal relevance though tbh, Mileage, condition/history would be the highest on a buyers list

Drummerboy08

wotzgoingon wrote: »

I found the other GTfour and it is more resonably priced.
http://www.adverts.ie/car/toyota/celica/1995-toyota-celica-gt4-for-sale/4730506

Just on this, I'd be willing to bet that there's at least another €1000 to be spent on that car once you go digging. Suspension/brakes/bushings etc.

A properly looked after car can be bought for around 3/3.5k.

I'd rather haggle over this original looking car -
http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/totally-original-and-unabused-gt4-celica/6206176

Soarer

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Just on this, I'd be willing to bet that there's at least another €1000 to be spent on that car once you go digging. Suspension/brakes/bushings etc.

A properly looked after car can be bought for around 3/3.5k.

I'd rather haggle over this original looking car -
http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/totally-original-and-unabused-gt4-celica/6206176

That's fap-tastic.

Interesting claim that it's never been over 100kph.

Stroke My Trout

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

I have the 2l version, almost identical car, but not a Gt4. Brilliant, brilliant cars IMO and worth whatever you need to give to get one. Undervalued, underrated, over-delivering future classics - if that was a rot-box MG with a wheeze box engine, everyone would be saying how cheap it was.

My nephews had 3 94-97 (2 1.8s and a 2l) over the last couple of years (sold all when offered by friends for small profit / when he fancied a change) and they've been so much cheaper than corollas, not much less economical, really so solid and still relevant to drive. Each one was bought for less than €600 with test, and in some cases tax. All so cheap because people believe their old and sure the tax is scandalous boy......crazy stuff, but a great place to, at least buy great cars cheaply (less said about running them, the better;))

Drummerboy08

Soarer wrote: »

That's fap-tastic.

Interesting claim that it's never been over 100kph.

Yeah, I'd have to take that with a pinch of salt to be fair.

PADRAIC.M

What a absolute pig of a car to do a clutch on btw,I cried....

CianRyan

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Just on this, I'd be willing to bet that there's at least another €1000 to be spent on that car once you go digging. Suspension/brakes/bushings etc.

A properly looked after car can be bought for around 3/3.5k.

I'd rather haggle over this original looking car -
http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/totally-original-and-unabused-gt4-celica/6206176

Wow that's beautiful.
That roof spoiler is just doing wonders for me.

Definitely agree about that 100kph claim, what utter ****e.

Stavros Murphy

CianRyan wrote: »

Wow that's beautiful.
That roof spoiler is just doing wonders for me.

Definitely agree about that 100kph claim, what utter ****e.

Clean car. Worth every penny. Will need a zero added in ten years time.

wotzgoingon

CianRyan wrote: »

Wow that's beautiful.
That roof spoiler is just doing wonders for me.

Definitely agree about that 100kph claim, what utter ****e.

If he is willing to lie about 100kph, all the other stuff he said could be bull**** as well. He really should have left that comment out. It is a nice clean car though.

Stavros Murphy

wotzgoingon wrote: »

If he is willing to lie about 100kph, all the other stuff he said could be bull**** as well. He really should have left that comment out. It is a nice clean car though.

My wife has a car. I can categorically guarantee it has never seen the far side of 100kph, ever. It isn't that wild a claim. She thinks 80 is absolutely ragging the guts out of it and verging on dangerous. Makes following her anywhere fairly dull tbh.

wotzgoingon

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

My wife has a car. I can categorically guarantee it has never seen the far side of 100kph, ever. It isn't that wild a claim. She thinks 80 is absolutely ragging the guts out of it and verging on dangerous. Makes following her anywhere fairly dull tbh.

Maybe but who buys a GTfour and never done the 120kph or more on motorway.

pablo128

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

My wife has a car. I can categorically guarantee it has never seen the far side of 100kph, ever. It isn't that wild a claim. She thinks 80 is absolutely ragging the guts out of it and verging on dangerous. Makes following her anywhere fairly dull tbh.

I doubt very much if it's a rally bred 4wd turbo charged fire breathing flame spitting beast though? No offence like!:)

Supergurrier

wotzgoingon wrote: »

Maybe but who buys a GTfour and never done the 120kph or more on motorway.

It's a windscreen repair place selling it

Stavros Murphy

wotzgoingon wrote: »

Maybe but who buys a GTfour and never done the 120kph or more on motorway.

Auld fellas. Like me..my kids always ask wtf I bother having a skyline for when I drive it like a granny...