farm accounts

solorpower

just wondering what people think is a good price to get farm accounts done. i only have a small holding (Job as well) and get an account to do the tax returns. the bill usually come to €1,100 which i think is very dear!

what are others paying?

simx

solorpower wrote: »

just wondering what people think is a good price to get farm accounts done. i only have a small holding (Job as well) and get an account to do the tax returns. the bill usually come to €1,100 which i think is very dear!

what are others paying?

Pm Iakill farm, he's an accountant and should be able to help, €1100 is outrageous IMO

bikes

I pay 550 euro to a large accountancy firm and I am going elsewhere this year at 300 euro

solorpower

sounds like i am paying way too much, think i wll shop around....

hugo29

solorpower wrote: »

just wondering what people think is a good price to get farm accounts done. i only have a small holding (Job as well) and get an account to do the tax returns. the bill usually come to €1,100 which i think is very dear!

what are others paying?

that is a polite way of putting it my friend

300-400 euro

I said

solorpower wrote: »

just wondering what people think is a good price to get farm accounts done. i only have a small holding (Job as well) and get an account to do the tax returns. the bill usually come to €1,100 which i think is very dear!

what are others paying?

You are being rode sideways,pay around€400 here

hugo29

I said wrote: »

You are being rode sideways,pay around€400 here

sideways, how does that work:D

I said

hugo29 wrote: »

sideways, how does that work:D

Solorpowers accountant will show ya for a fee

hugo29

I said wrote: »

Solorpowers accountant will show ya for a fee

would it be tax deductable

lakill Farm

hugo29 wrote: »

would it be tax deductable

classified as land reclaiming

lakill Farm

bikes wrote: »

I pay 550 euro to a large accountancy firm and I am going elsewhere this year at 300 euro

Drop me a PM . Im not to far away

Farmer Pudsey

1100 euro is ver steep for what are usually fairly simple accounts. Not a fan of 300euro accountants either. You have to look at it as a buisness am with one of the big two it costs 650/year inc vat. Advice is good and they know the buisness back to front. Have seen farmers end up with tax problems going to some of the non farming accountants.

Toplink

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

am with one of the big two

Who are the big 2?

lakill Farm

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

1100 euro is ver steep for what are usually fairly simple accounts. Not a fan of 300euro accountants either. You have to look at it as a buisness am with one of the big two it costs 650/year inc vat. Advice is good and they know the buisness back to front. Have seen farmers end up with tax problems going to some of the non farming accountants.

we have some clients on €300 fees. sometimes its all they or the enterprise can afford, and also its us passing on our reduced costs directly to the client.

I would hope we give a more personal and friendly service to the client and at minimum as professional and expertise service

For instance, we are doing work for a farm now where we are €1500 a year cheaper than the previous accountant. WHy did he change accountant, well revenue told the client to change and re write 5 years work.

Less money does not equal less service/knowledge

Farmer Pudsey

lakill Farm wrote: »

we have some clients on €300 fees. sometimes its all they or the enterprise can afford, and also its us passing on our reduced costs directly to the client.

I would hope we give a more personal and friendly service to the client and at minimum as professional and expertise service

For instance, we are doing work for a farm now where we are €1500 a year cheaper than the previous accountant. WHy did he change accountant, well revenue told the client to change and re write 5 years work.

Less money does not equal less service/knowledge

I agree entirely with you Lakill however some farmers get so caught up in price they fail to look at the total package. I also wonder why all this gra for Profit monitors when you pay someone to do the same thing. However how many farmers after they get a copy of the accounts for the year sit down and read same. How many talk to there accounts about investment decisions and tax efficiency.

My own accountant has mentioned that I am one of the few that ask questions of the accounts.

I said

Is the OP one of these people that just lands in with the books and doesnt know what their incoming and outgoings are ?

feartuath

Any here with IFAC,they charge over 900 euro and want over 1100 for their recording service
All for a part time farmer with 25 suckler herd and some stores and replacement heifers

biddy2013

i know a lad who was paying 3k a year to his accountant, i said that was crazy, he said ah sure we have dealt with him for years and dont want to change, feck sake you could pay for a good family holiday if he changed

solorpower

Feartuath - is the 900 before vat?

I am with IFAC too but will not be going with them this year with out a major reduction, hard enough earning it in the first palce!

keep going

But just as there are different accountant s there are different clients, do you hand him a bag of receipts and does he do your vat or do you do all the adding up and present him with the overall figures.I pay around 250 to 300 and I get to sit down with him once a year for 2 hours and a few phone calls through the year, he is probably charging 100 an hour but im happy withhim

lakill Farm

biddy2013 wrote: »

i know a lad who was paying 3k a year to his accountant, i said that was crazy, he said ah sure we have dealt with him for years and dont want to change, feck sake you could pay for a good family holiday if he changed

Sounds like the saddle has been attached :rolleyes:

Sam Kade

feartuath wrote: »

Any here with IFAC,they charge over 900 euro and want over 1100 for their recording service
All for a part time farmer with 25 suckler herd and some stores and replacement heifers

I am with ifac 1300 for 4 visits from the recorder who on many occasions skipped every second visit :mad: + returns. 1 visit yearly which is for payment more than advice as he is better than any politician for dodging his way around questions.

hugo29

feartuath wrote: »

Any here with IFAC,they charge over 900 euro and want over 1100 for their recording service
All for a part time farmer with 25 suckler herd and some stores and replacement heifers

very dear at that, i would not be a million miles different to you and i pay 400 euro and i find that dear as I give him spread sheets with records of all outgoings and corresponding cheques, now he does have to sort through receipts but they are all together

lakill Farm

not advertising in anyway (Mods can remove if they feel unjustafied). Some accountants try to make it sound like rock science. Ah few of ye have met me and I hope that will help to clarify in the below been close enough to industry norm

mostly accountancy practice charge €45 for trainee €100 for manager €200/€350 for partner per hour

Anyway split is

1/3 staff salary and costs
1/3 Partners share
1/3 Office admin and overheads

Now the run of the mill part time farmer will take a good trainee 1/1.5days at 7 hours a day (10hours) . so approx €450 add in half hour for manager and fee is approx €500 (inclusive)

Now strip out the element of 1/3 for partner and a fee of €30 per hour by the above 10 hours yours looking at €350 mark (includes €50 for manager)

So €900/€1100 for a lad with 25 suckler cows is nice to have on your books . your paying approx an extra €500 on top of the already €300 directly to the partners BMW fund and golf club membership :rolleyes:.


Part time beef and sheep farmers should have a fee of €350/€600 max

Full time depends on size of industry and across what type areas of farming . A tillage lad is earlier to compile than a diary and there easier again compared to sheep and beef. €500- €1000

Farmer Pudsey

feartuath wrote: »

Any here with IFAC,they charge over 900 euro and want over 1100 for their recording service
All for a part time farmer with 25 suckler herd and some stores and replacement heifers

I am with FDC and it is 650 inc vat. While my accounts are fairly straight forward the do a tax return for two of my kids who are on the farm books as employees.

biddy2013 wrote: »

i know a lad who was paying 3k a year to his accountant, i said that was crazy, he said ah sure we have dealt with him for years and dont want to change, feck sake you could pay for a good family holiday if he changed

Idiot

keep going wrote: »

But just as there are different accountant s there are different clients, do you hand him a bag of receipts and does he do your vat or do you do all the adding up and present him with the overall figures.I pay around 250 to 300 and I get to sit down with him once a year for 2 hours and a few phone calls through the year, he is probably charging 100 an hour but im happy withhim

I sort reciepts in to different group, car, machinery, Co-op account, cash reciepts, vat reclaim reciepts etc. he gets them along wit bank account details. It probarly cost me an extra 150-200 but as it is tax deductable I let it run. Maybe when I retire and have time on my hands I do it then

willfarmerman

Wind up on the wrong side of revenue and see what the definition of big money is. A good accountant is rarely expensive in my view.

delaval

Don't know how people can comment on other people's charges when we don't know how info is presented, how many meetings and more importantly what your accountant is doing for you.

The planning is what I pay for and am delighted that my accountant has no farming background so its business planning that gets done!!

He does his job and I do mine

biddy2013

delaval wrote: »

Don't know how people can comment on other people's charges when we don't know how info is presented, how many meetings and more importantly what your accountant is doing for you.

The planning is what I pay for and am delighted that my accountant has no farming background so its business planning that gets done!!

He does his job and I do mine

the lad who was paying 3k had no payslips to be done. Straight forward accounts I quizzed him on it

solorpower

well i get to meet with him once a year to run through the acounts which would be skimpy at best,
no advice given unless i drag it out of him,
i give him he all the paper statements and a spread sheet with the reason behind each transaction.
for the I pay >€1,100,

i will shop around to see what better offer i can get,

looking forward to paying less this year!

LivInt20

lakill Farm wrote: »

not advertising in anyway (Mods can remove if they feel unjustafied). Some accountants try to make it sound like rock science. Ah few of ye have met me and I hope that will help to clarify in the below been close enough to industry norm

mostly accountancy practice charge €45 for trainee €100 for manager €200/€350 for partner per hour

Anyway split is

1/3 staff salary and costs
1/3 Partners share
1/3 Office admin and overheads

Now the run of the mill part time farmer will take a good trainee 1/1.5days at 7 hours a day (10hours) . so approx €450 add in half hour for manager and fee is approx €500 (inclusive)

Now strip out the element of 1/3 for partner and a fee of €30 per hour by the above 10 hours yours looking at €350 mark (includes €50 for manager)

So €900/€1100 for a lad with 25 suckler cows is nice to have on your books . your paying approx an extra €500 on top of the already €300 directly to the partners BMW fund and golf club membership :rolleyes:.


Part time beef and sheep farmers should have a fee of €350/€600 max

Full time depends on size of industry and across what type areas of farming . A tillage lad is earlier to compile than a diary and there easier again compared to sheep and beef. €500- €1000

LARKHILL you are constantly advertising on Boards.

Stationmaster

I'd have a good few farmers on the books myself and I'd agree with lakill here in relation to the fee for the part-time farmer who is working elsewhere - no way should it be over €550/600. It's very hard to give an idea as to how much a fee for the full time farmer should be because the difference in each job can be massive.

For example, you could have 2 farmers with the exact same stock levels,turnover etc. Farmer 1 keeps no records and around 2 weeks before the income tax deadline will arrive in with a plastic bag/shoebox with everything fired into it. After you go through it half the bank statements are missing, cheque stubs aren't filled in etc and it's a nightmare to try and finalise.

Farmer 2 though keeps an up to date excel system going on a monthly basis which he emails into you along with his bank statements, sales statements etc. You could have his accounts ready in the middle of Jan nearly because you have all the info easily accessible.

Then the two lads meet and Farmer 1 can't believe how he's been charged way more than Farmer 2 and comes on boards.ie to vent!!!

TITANIUM.

Does anyone here pay preliminary tax?
To the lads in the know: what's the benefit of it? Cheers

willfarmerman

I pay it.. I thought it was the norm.

Farmer Pudsey

willfarmerman wrote: »

I pay it.. I thought it was the norm.

It is the norm as a sole trader you are suppose to calculate your tax and pay a portion early in the year / Failure to do so will incurr penalties.

relax carry on

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Does anyone here pay preliminary tax?
To the lads in the know: what's the benefit of it? Cheers

The benefit of it is you are obeying the rules to stay tax compliant.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/it70.html

Miname

I took over looking after the farm a few years back. My dad was paying between 1200 and 1400 per year for what i classified as relatively easy accounts, everything would go to him in batches per month as in each month, it wwouldnt be sorted to incomings, outgoings, etc, but it would go grouped. Dad was with him around 20 years and like that was scared to move as he thought it would be too much hassle.
I moved to a 550 accountant per year and we had serious work trying to bring up the stock values and such without incurring a huge tax bill. the last accountant hadnt increased the values and even claimed back vat and such on a lot of the building works, we also had to chase him to get taxes filed that werent done but all had been supplied. The 550 lad has 13 done already and sat down and done the profit monitor out with me, ive been with them 5 or 6 times getting bits done that the other fella wouldnt even do.
Just because your paying big money doesnt mean your getting a good service.
A friend of mine was looking for an accountant and wanted someone from a farming background and i suggested lakill, he went with him any way and is delighted if the current lad completly f's up i'll be moving too. He reckons its a huge advantage to have someone with a knowledge of how a farm works, and no i'm not related or ever even met lakill.

Reggie.

Miname wrote: »

I took over looking after the farm a few years back. My dad was paying between 1200 and 1400 per year for what i classified as relatively easy accounts, everything would go to him in batches per month as in each month, it wwouldnt be sorted to incomings, outgoings, etc, but it would go grouped. Dad was with him around 20 years and like that was scared to move as he thought it would be too much hassle.
I moved to a 550 accountant per year and we had serious work trying to bring up the stock values and such without incurring a huge tax bill. the last accountant hadnt increased the values and even claimed back vat and such on a lot of the building works, we also had to chase him to get taxes filed that werent done but all had been supplied. The 550 lad has 13 done already and sat down and done the profit monitor out with me, ive been with them 5 or 6 times getting bits done that the other fella wouldnt even do.
Just because your paying big money doesnt mean your getting a good service.
A friend of mine was looking for an accountant and wanted someone from a farming background and i suggested lakill, he went with him any way and is delighted if the current lad completly f's up i'll be moving too. He reckons its a huge advantage to have someone with a knowledge of how a farm works, and no i'm not related or ever even met lakill.

Your better off :P

td5man

Reggie. wrote: »

[/B]
Your better off :P

+1 ;-)

Reggie.

td5man wrote: »

+1 ;-)

I'm gonna stop now

delaval

Miname wrote: »

I took over looking after the farm a few years back. My dad was paying between 1200 and 1400 per year for what i classified as relatively easy accounts, everything would go to him in batches per month as in each month, it wwouldnt be sorted to incomings, outgoings, etc, but it would go grouped. Dad was with him around 20 years and like that was scared to move as he thought it would be too much hassle.
I moved to a 550 accountant per year and we had serious work trying to bring up the stock values and such without incurring a huge tax bill. the last accountant hadnt increased the values and even claimed back vat and such on a lot of the building works, we also had to chase him to get taxes filed that werent done but all had been supplied. The 550 lad has 13 done already and sat down and done the profit monitor out with me, ive been with them 5 or 6 times getting bits done that the other fella wouldnt even do.
Just because your paying big money doesnt mean your getting a good service.
A friend of mine was looking for an accountant and wanted someone from a farming background and i suggested lakill, he went with him any way and is delighted if the current lad completly f's up i'll be moving too. He reckons its a huge advantage to have someone with a knowledge of how a farm works, and no i'm not related or ever even met lakill.

How does this matter, you're the farmer and he's the accountant?
A few have said this, am I missing something? My guy knows sfa about farming but is really good at planning and of course doing the accounts which isn't exactly rocket science as they are guided by Revenue.

Farmer Pudsey

delaval wrote: »

How does this matter, you're the farmer and he's the accountant?
A few have said this, am I missing something? My guy knows sfa about farming but is really good at planning and of course doing the accounts which isn't exactly rocket science as they are guided by Revenue.

Maybe when you have a larger operation it is not as critical as most are out and out business decisions. But when a small sole trader a accountant that understand this type of business is critical. It is not so much that he is aware of farming but is aware of the vaguries of same. He will be aware issue that effect profitability, will be aware of interest rates and may point you in the right direction in the efficent use of excess cash.

There are a lot of poorish accountants out there just like there are poorish farmers, plumbers accountants etc. I would not expect an accountant to give me farming advice but we all need him to be aware of all reliefs and of what agri lending is available

lakill Farm

delaval wrote: »

How does this matter, you're the farmer and he's the accountant?
A few have said this, am I missing something? My guy knows sfa about farming but is really good at planning and of course doing the accounts which isn't exactly rocket science as they are guided by Revenue.

Id can be a benefit but it shouldnt matter to much.

Where it becomes a bonus is when the client is new to farming or moving from another accountant who wasnt giving good service or advice.

Recently out with a client who had a revenue auditor out on farm inspection clarifying vat refunds on a VAT 58 . Anyway the auditor wanted a full farm walk to check fencing and drainage and check new sheds etc, even after getting pictures. So I piped up and told them they had to follow the biosecurity guidelines of Bord Bia. So said offical arrived and I put on the disposable overalls, and gloves and hairnet and hood and the revenue lad says, ah thats fine and drives off. SOmething small but it worked

Reggie.

lakill Farm wrote: »

Id can be a benefit but it shouldnt matter to much.

Where it becomes a bonus is when the client is new to farming or moving from another accountant who wasnt giving good service or advice.

Recently out with a client who had a revenue auditor out on farm inspection clarifying vat refunds on a VAT 58 . Anyway the auditor wanted a full farm walk to check fencing and drainage and check new sheds etc, even after getting pictures. So I piped up and told them they had to follow the biosecurity guidelines of Bord Bia. So said offical arrived and I put on the disposable overalls, and gloves and hairnet and hood and the revenue lad says, ah thats fine and drives off. SOmething small but it worked

Nice job...... But what was the hair net for :pac:

Farmer Pudsey

lakill Farm wrote: »

Id can be a benefit but it shouldnt matter to much.

Where it becomes a bonus is when the client is new to farming or moving from another accountant who wasnt giving good service or advice.

Recently out with a client who had a revenue auditor out on farm inspection clarifying vat refunds on a VAT 58 . Anyway the auditor wanted a full farm walk to check fencing and drainage and check new sheds etc, even after getting pictures. So I piped up and told them they had to follow the biosecurity guidelines of Bord Bia. So said offical arrived and I put on the disposable overalls, and gloves and hairnet and hood and the revenue lad says, ah thats fine and drives off. SOmething small but it worked

Nothing like playing them at there own game

Reggie. wrote: »

Nice job...... But what was the hair net for :pac:

To stop hair falling into a drain it might clog it like it clogs the drainplug of a shower:D

Reggie.

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

To stop hair falling into a drain it might clog it like it clogs the drainplug of a shower:D

Ah don't think he would have that problem no more than me self:D

farming93

Whats the story with Macra members getting 300 euro off their first year of IFAC accounts anyone availed of this?

Reggie.

farming93 wrote: »

Whats the story with Macra members getting 300 euro off their first year of IFAC accounts anyone availed of this?

They probably charge ya an extra 300 for the first year to balance it off

farming93

Haha it wouldnt surprise me!

AnFeirmeoir

Keep an excel sheet and have bank statements etc. I'm only at it 18 mths so I haven't had to do a return yet. When should I send details to an accountant now or wait till august or so ?

Farmer Pudsey

AnFeirmeoir wrote: »

Keep an excel sheet and have bank statements etc. I'm only at it 18 mths so I haven't had to do a return yet. When should I send details to an accountant now or wait till august or so ?

I be going to see an accountant now no point in putting it off if you are setting up on the new and are working you may be due a rebate.

Stationmaster

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I be going to see an accountant now no point in putting it off if you are setting up on the new and are working you may be due a rebate.

Yea, no point delaying it. Contact your accountant now. It's generally a quietish time now anyway for accountants so some of them are only delighted to get jobs in early.