Farm bank

Miname

I was in with my local boi manager today on my fourth visit regarding the farm account (formely with danske). I have three other accounts with this branch. each time i went in they kept asking for more paperwork which i kept getting. The final straw came today when he started asking for proof of my wifes income and to do give a full breakdown of assets and liabilities which were done. Then kept pushing stocking loans on me instead of overdraft facilities (which are rarely used however are very important when they are). And on top of this kept calling me the wrong name, 5 times at least in which each time i corrected him so he didnt really have an excuse. You can imagine how i felt and where i told him to stick it, he thn asked me why i was leaving, anyhows can anyone recommend how they feel about ptsb or Aib, they seem to be my 2 choices ptsb is about 30 mins drive and Aib 7 mins from me.
This needs to be done reasonably fast so any help appreciated.

Dont be daft

Miname wrote: »

I was in with my local boi manager today on my fourth visit regarding the farm account (formely with danske). I have three other accounts with this branch. each time i went in they kept asking for more paperwork which i kept getting. The final straw came today when he started asking for proof of my wifes income and to do give a full breakdown of assets and liabilities which were done. Then kept pushing stocking loans on me instead of overdraft facilities (which are rarely used however are very important when they are). And on top of this kept calling me the wrong name, 5 times at least in which each time i corrected him so he didnt really have an excuse. You can imagine how i felt and where i told him to stick it, he thn asked me why i was leaving, anyhows can anyone recommend how they feel about ptsb or Aib, they seem to be my 2 choices ptsb is about 30 mins drive and Aib 7 mins from me.
This needs to be done reasonably fast so any help appreciated.

Sounds like you fell out with the manager rather than the bank.

I'd recommend AIB but for all I know the manager in your local AIB is a muppet too.

But for what its worth I think the AIB Farm Accounts are well run. Online banking is the biggest thing for me and I like the way the AIB one is set up.

Timmaay

If you have another boi branch close to ya, you could try them and explain that you tried to get an overdraft, and have most the paperwork done, and see if they will get it transferred across. Would save alot of grief. Agreed that it sounds like more a problem with the manager than the bank.

Bellview

Agree with Tim. Had same issue recently so moved all accounts to where old manager is now as he worked with people rather than the hq computer parrot

Bodacious

Dont be daft wrote: »

Sounds like you fell out with the manager rather than the bank.

I'd recommend AIB but for all I know the manager in your local AIB is a muppet too.

But for what its worth I think the AIB Farm Accounts are well run. Online banking is the biggest thing for me and I like the way the AIB one is set up.

I find AIB grand also to be fair to them. but as don't be daft is saying its all about the individual that you are dealing with


aren't all banks making a fortune on interest though.. I got my statement for interest paid in 2013 on a land loan @5.075% first and up o 5.2% in December.. incentive enough to get lump sums together.. sell surplus stock

jimmy G M

Banks prefer to issue stocking loans than overdrafts - eg a €10k bridging loan earns them interest on the €10k untill you repay it, a €10k overdraft only earns them interest for the days you use it and the amount of it you use, and costs you a lot less in interest.

Sounds like this guy is not experienced in his job and so has to keep going back to you for extra bits that are required. Any experienced banker will know what info is generally required required to get a solid application over the line with credit and be able to give you a list day 1. Forgetting your name constantly betrays he is nervous in my view, or extremely unprofessional at the least.

Not knowing the total borrowing figures involved or your personal circumstances etc, but from experience I would have expected that a Banker looking for details of spouse's income would be a reasonably standard request for a lot of credit applications especially if it's a major factor in covering family expenses or loan repayments.

Hope you get sorted out.

sheebadog

Interest rates being quoted here are ridiculous.

Please reference ECB interest rate.

Whether a cow is bulling or if you can graze grass for 4 hours (etc,etc) means nought if you are paying through the h•le for a basic commodity.

Miname

This was only a transfer from danske which involved getting an overdraft facility. He had the last years accounts, i offered him the profit monitor. No monies owed excluding home mortgage which is always on time. The clown didnt even know i had other accounts with them, i thought it would be fairly normal to check for them. This is their fourth manager in the last 5 or 6 years and they just seem to be getting worse. I wanted to get a second signature on the cheque book, when i arrived today they had the account set with both people on the account not just as someone who can write a cheque.

locky76

sheebadog wrote: »

Interest rates being quoted here are ridiculous.

Please reference ECB interest.

I don't understand your point, why reference the ECB rate when the banks aren't using it, their cost of credit is higher than this...
I'm paying 6•75% on a €20k stocking loan...

sheebadog

locky76 wrote: »

I don't understand your point, why reference the ECB rate when the banks aren't using it, their cost of credit is higher than this...
I'm paying 6•75% on a €20k stocking loan...

The banks are making unreal margins off the back of one of the strongest sectors on Ireland. The dearest loan you should is overdraft, because you might not use it all the time. Overdraft should be no more than 3%~3.3%

Stocking loan at 6.75% is insane. The government have to get on this, let's face it they are our banks after all.

Username John

sheebadog wrote: »

The banks are making unreal margins off the back of one of the strongest sectors on Ireland. The dearest loan you should is overdraft, because you might not use it all the time. Overdraft should be no more than 3%~3.3%

Stocking loan at 6.75% is insane. The government have to get on this, let's face it they are our banks after all.

I just checked my account online there and my overdraft interest rate is 14%

Now, this is is just a standard account, maybe you could get this reduced some way.

But it's a long way off from 3.3%

:mad:

sheebadog

As aatter of interest what are 12 or 15yr loans costing ?

With so much dairy expansion going to happen it would be good business to avail of historic low interest.

whitebriar

sheebadog wrote: »

Stocking loan at 6.75% is insane. The government have to get on this, let's face it they are our banks after all.

You obviously know nothing about banking.
The banks are not sourcing the money they lend to you at the ecb rate.They get it at 3 or 4% and lend it on to you with a 100% margin.
This may sound like a whole lot,but the interest on an average sv mortgage or loan would only pay half the average industrial wage and they only get half of that.
It used be less but nowadays, they need that plus 3% to make a profit.

sheebadog

whitebriar wrote: »

You obviously know nothing about banking.
The banks are not sourcing the money they lend to you at the ecb rate.They get it at 3 or 4% and lend it on to you with a 100% margin.
This may sound like a whole lot,but the interest on an average sv mortgage or loan would only pay half the average industrial wage and they only get half of that.
It used be less but nowadays, they need that plus 3% to make a profit.

Teach me.

I was under the (false?) illusion that the only institution that would lend to Irish banks is the ECB.

biddy2013

i am on my third branch of ulster bank, i moved as the farm advisors changed and the new ones where crap. No problem moving at all

Farmer Pudsey

sheebadog wrote: »

The banks are making unreal margins off the back of one of the strongest sectors on Ireland. The dearest loan you should is overdraft, because you might not use it all the time. Overdraft should be no more than 3%~3.3%

Stocking loan at 6.75% is insane. The government have to get on this, let's face it they are our banks after all.

Technically an overdrafi is the deaest, however if you constantly clear it it is often quite cheap. Mine is in the red for 3-4 months now, i have the money to clear in another account however I want the farm to clear it itsel. using an overdraft allows me to extract money out of the farm account ( no point in leaving 10-15K sitting there with no Interest) In general it moves from -5K to +10K. I have an overdraft of 10K but am constantly clearing it. in general it is in overdraft for half the year and in credit for the other half.

whitebriar wrote: »

You obviously know nothing about banking.
The banks are not sourcing the money they lend to you at the ecb rate.They get it at 3 or 4% and lend it on to you with a 100% margin.
This may sound like a whole lot,but the interest on an average sv mortgage or loan would only pay half the average industrial wage and they only get half of that.
It used be less but nowadays, they need that plus 3% to make a profit.

I am not sure do you know too much either. BOI at present to my understanding is accessing money at less than 2% ( most banks are). The Irish banks have stoped competimg for deposits, highest rates are less than 2 gfor deposits except for KBC.

To make a profit the need about 2%, on secured lending and 3-4 on medium term lending. They are price gouging at the moment. Recently enquired about rates for land purchasse, above 300K the rate is 4% or less below 300K the rate is 6%. Irish farmers in general tend not to default ( these are a bank managers words). The real faer in borrowing at these rate is that they are linked to nothing and the question is if ECB rate goes to 3% on 3-4 years time what rate will you be repaying bank 9%???. The reason this is an issue is that it costs about 2K in bank legal fees to set up a loan.

sheebadog

Farmer Pudsey, I agree on overdraft facility. Same here, I don't use it because it is too expensive, even though I do have the facility. Overdraft rate is 3.15%.



As far as I know ECB rate is 0.25% and they pay 0% for overnight deposit.
Now the ECB is the lender of last resort for Irish banks. Would you lend to them?

It seems to me that Irish banks are flaing borrowers. One poster is paying 14% for overdraft. Maybe it was a typo.

lakill Farm

there all the same to deal with in my eyes. its the person your dealing with is the key

Viewtodiefor

sheebadog wrote: »

Farmer Pudsey, I agree on overdraft facility. Same here, I don't use it because it is too expensive, even though I do have the facility. Overdraft rate is 3.15%.



As far as I know ECB rate is 0.25% and they pay 0% for overnight deposit.
Now the ECB is the lender of last resort for Irish banks. Would you lend to them?

It seems to me that Irish banks are flaing borrowers. One poster is paying 14% for overdraft. Maybe it was a typo.

Maybe bit off topic but

Recently chatted to a mate of mine working in banking and he said they offering car loans at anything up to 13%! Which means they can say to the government they are lending!! But rate is rediculas

Username John

sheebadog wrote: »

Farmer Pudsey, I agree on overdraft facility. Same here, I don't use it because it is too expensive, even though I do have the facility. Overdraft rate is 3.15%.



As far as I know ECB rate is 0.25% and they pay 0% for overnight deposit.
Now the ECB is the lender of last resort for Irish banks. Would you lend to them?

It seems to me that Irish banks are flaing borrowers. One poster is paying 14% for overdraft. Maybe it was a typo.

Hi Sheeba,

14% wasn't a typo. This is on my own current account.

See here it lists 16%
https://m.permanenttsb.ie/whatweoffer/current-accounts/current-account/thenittygritty/

Overdraft rates

The current overdraft rate is 16.3% representative APR (Annual Percentage Rate). This rate is variable and subject to change. Lending Terms and Conditions apply.

blue5000

OP do you get many payments from dept of agri? Reason I ask is that some banks are 'holding' these payments for up to eight days. I'm with aib and last payment took 5 working days from when dept said they transferred money to when it appeared in my account. Don't know how long b of i take.

I suggest to ask around locally, what sort of satisfaction other farmers are getting.

sheebadog

Username John wrote: »

Hi Sheeba,

14% wasn't a typo. This is on my own current account.

See here it lists 16%
https://m.permanenttsb.ie/whatweoffer/current-accounts/current-account/thenittygritty/

Overdraft rates

The current overdraft rate is 16.3% representative APR (Annual Percentage Rate). This rate is variable and subject to change. Lending Terms and Conditions apply.

WOW!!! Thats theft.

locky76

sheebadog wrote: »

Overdraft rate is 3.15%.

who in the name of god is giving you an overdraft rate of 3•15%????

sheebadog

locky76 wrote: »

who in the name of god is giving you an overdraft rate of 3•15%????

Crédit Mutuel.
Crédit Agricole. Both the same rates.
Crédit Mutuel do a very good deal with loan charges. You pay €300 p.a and there are no charges for loan set up, no matter how many or how much.

Lano Lynn

sheebadog wrote: »

Crédit Mutuel.
Crédit Agricole. Both the same rates.
Crédit Mutuel do a very good deal with loan charges. You pay €300 p.a and there are no charges for loan set up, no matter how many or how much.

obiously not the calibre of our pillar bankers:rolleyes:
the banks are setting up for a slaughter here,dairy farmers borrowing heavily with the end of quotas in sights should be very very wary.as the econony 'improves' they are going to reposess more and more houses that the mortgages are not 'preforming' but comming out of negetive equity ,the media will pay less and less attention repossessing farms won't even get a mention

intrest rates are crippling the legal charges and fees are the real rip off and then to have to tolerate the incompetence and lack of proffessionalism detailed in the OP adds insult to injury.This from what are clearly among the stupidest sector on the planet they just have no shame.:mad:

Bodacious

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Technically an overdrafi is the deaest, however if you constantly clear it it is often quite cheap. Mine is in the red for 3-4 months now, i have the money to clear in another account however I want the farm to clear it itsel. using an overdraft allows me to extract money out of the farm account ( no point in leaving 10-15K sitting there with no Interest) In general it moves from -5K to +10K. I have an overdraft of 10K but am constantly clearing it. in general it is in overdraft for half the year and in credit for the other half.



I am not sure do you know too much either. BOI at present to my understanding is accessing money at less than 2% ( most banks are). The Irish banks have stoped competimg for deposits, highest rates are less than 2 gfor deposits except for KBC.

To make a profit the need about 2%, on secured lending and 3-4 on medium term lending. They are price gouging at the moment. Recently enquired about rates for land purchasse, above 300K the rate is 4% or less below 300K the rate is 6%. Irish farmers in general tend not to default ( these are a bank managers words). The real faer in borrowing at these rate is that they are linked to nothing and the question is if ECB rate goes to 3% on 3-4 years time what rate will you be repaying bank 9%???. The reason this is an issue is that it costs about 2K in bank legal fees to set up a loan.

so im not getting ass raped @5.2%?

loveta

Moved from danske bank in 2011 had to move all loans two which i had at a pretty good rate, costed me a couple of grand on legal fees, ect ect went to ulster under a deal agreed brokered with by our purchasing group which is a flat rate over COF on all loans be it car land over draft and the only way we got that deal is we played them at there own game we had strength in numbers and we bullied them, banks jobs is to make money and why would they not charge what ever they can get away with "if they can get away with it"

locky76

Fair play Sheebadog, how do I join either of these banks to avail of this fine rate?

sheebadog wrote: »

Crédit Mutuel.
Crédit Agricole. Both the same rates.
Crédit Mutuel do a very good deal with loan charges. You pay €300 p.a and there are no charges for loan set up, no matter how many or how much.

Sam Kade

lakill Farm wrote: »

there all the same to deal with in my eyes. its the person your dealing with is the key

I went into my local AIB bank last week for a loan. When I asked for the woman over my account I was told that was all changed now, you have to ring the Naas branch to get a loan where ever you are in the country :mad:

sheebadog

Working on a project at the minute, buying a bit of land, and the cost of borrowing is coming in at 3.03% fixed for 12 years. May get it at less negotiations ongoing.

Why are ye not fixing money with cost at historic lows? I know it's more expensive but you know exactly where you stand and rates will have to rise sometime in the future.

Farmer Pudsey

Bodacious wrote: »

so im not getting ass raped @5.2%?

I was only enquiring and i told the person I was asking that I would not borrow at those rates.

sheebadog wrote: »

Working on a project at the minute, buying a bit of land, and the cost of borrowing is coming in at 3.03% fixed for 12 years. May get it at less negotiations ongoing.

Why are ye not fixing money with cost at historic lows? I know it's more expensive but you know exactly where you stand and rates will have to rise sometime in the future.

If I got a fixed rate like that, I would be atking it. No such rates available in Irish market at present.

sheebadog

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I was only enquiring and i told the person I was asking that I would not borrow at those rates.



If I got a fixed rate like that, I would be atking it. No such rates available in Irish market at present.

Variable rate is considerably less and very tempting but when rates rise I don't want to be in a weak position trying to refinance.

Farmer Pudsey

sheebadog wrote: »

Variable rate is considerably less and very tempting but when rates rise I don't want to be in a weak position trying to refinance.

It would want to be 1.5% less to even think about a gamble. 3% is a great rate for 12 years. I have money borrowed for 10 years now variable 1.5 over Eu interbank rate. it has averaged around 4% over the term. I wonder would credit Mutual lend in Ireland:)

sheebadog

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

It would want to be 1.5% less to even think about a gamble. 3% is a great rate for 12 years. I have money borrowed for 10 years now variable 1.5 over Eu interbank rate. it has averaged around 4% over the term. I wonder would credit Mutual lend in Ireland:)

Agree.

jimmy G M

sheebadog wrote: »

Working on a project at the minute, buying a bit of land, and the cost of borrowing is coming in at 3.03% fixed for 12 years. May get it at less negotiations ongoing.

Why are ye not fixing money with cost at historic lows? I know it's more expensive but you know exactly where you stand and rates will have to rise sometime in the future.

Unbelievable - at that rate you are borrowing money at a lower rate than the Irish state - Irish Govt 10 year bond rate is circa 3.27%.

You're in France right? We've a long way to go here to get our Banks "fixed" and lending at reasonable rates here again. Right now in Ireland, anyone getting term finance at around about 3% over the banks cost of funds is getting a good deal ie around 5 - 5.5%. Even rates for homeloans are around about 4.5 to 5% variable.

OP, Irish Banks cannot borrow on the markets at close to ECB rates as the market charges a risk premium before they will lend to broken banks in a poorly rated economy. So the cost of funds to Irish Banks is probably around 2% as Pudsey said earlier. They add a margin of say 3% on top of that and that's what they lend at for decent sized business to good operators. Smaller, riskier loans get priced higher and it definitely pays to negotiate as hard as possible, as banks are out there to make money for themselves and if you don't ask you don't get.

Price isn't everything however, service, availability of credit, speed of response, someone who understands the business etc, are v important too. What you are looking for is somewhere you get a reasonable deal on everything.

If moving I would tend to move my account to a Branch or Bank in a good sized town with a good farming hinterland. With rationalisation Banks are tending to cluster offices - a main branch and a number of smaller satellite offices reporting in and the more experienced lenders tend to be in these main branches. You have a better chance of a decent service from these main branches, sometimes called Business & Agri centres. Maybe ask a few other farmers whom you regard well how they get on with their bank etc?

sheebadog

jimmy G M wrote: »

Unbelievable - at that rate you are borrowing money at a lower rate than the Irish state - Irish Govt 10 year bond rate is circa 3.27%.

You're in France right? We've a long way to go here to get our Banks "fixed" and lending at reasonable rates here again. Right now in Ireland, anyone getting term finance at around about 3% over the banks cost of funds is getting a good deal ie around 5 - 5.5%. Even rates for homeloans are around about 4.5 to 5% variable.

OP, Irish Banks cannot borrow on the markets at close to ECB rates as the market charges a risk premium before they will lend to broken banks in a poorly rated economy. So the cost of funds to Irish Banks is probably around 2% as Pudsey said earlier. They add a margin of say 3% on top of that and that's what they lend at for decent sized business to good operators. Smaller, riskier loans get priced higher and it definitely pays to negotiate as hard as possible, as banks are out there to make money for themselves and if you don't ask you don't get.

Price isn't everything however, service, availability of credit, speed of response, someone who understands the business etc, are v important too. What you are looking for is somewhere you get a reasonable deal on everything.

If moving I would tend to move my account to a Branch or Bank in a good sized town with a good farming hinterland. With rationalisation Banks are tending to cluster offices - a main branch and a number of smaller satellite offices reporting in and the more experienced lenders tend to be in these main branches. You have a better chance of a decent service from these main branches, sometimes called Business & Agri centres. Maybe ask a few other farmers whom you regard well how they get on with their bank etc?

Are you sure that Irish banks are able to source money in the markets?
Their share values don't reflect this.

Farmer Pudsey

sheebadog wrote: »

Are you sure that Irish banks are able to source money in the markets?
Their share values don't reflect this.

There share price reflects the share dilution in the last few years. AIB is 99.5% state owned. It paper value is in excess of 70 billion however it is not worth that. However as only 0.5% is on float it effects it share price and overvalues it. BOI share have been diluted by two rights issues, also the government sold part of it stake holding to an global investment fund. It book value is about 13 billion and is the most stable of the banks. In real terms it is preforming well in the stock exchange and seems to have good investment backing.

blue5000

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

There share price reflects the share dilution in the last few years. AIB is 99.5% state owned. It paper value is in excess of 70 billion however it is not worth that. However as only 0.5% is on float it effects it share price and overvalues it. BOI share have been diluted by two rights issues, also the government sold part of it stake holding to an global investment fund. It book value is about 13 billion and is the most stable of the banks. In real terms it is preforming well in the stock exchange and seems to have good investment backing.

I think aib is being geared up to be sold off to a similiar 'global investment fund' (read chinese) too. I think there is potential for us asset rich farmers to group together and start looking outside Ireland for finance.

Farmer Pudsey

blue5000 wrote: »

I think aib is being geared up to be sold off to a similiar 'global investment fund' (read chinese) too. I think there is potential for us asset rich farmers to group together and start looking outside Ireland for finance.

We had one it was called ACC bank. looking back at it was the Givernment for short term gain selling ACC and ICC. With the demise of these and the Building societ sector we are now left with the Big two, PTSB and the credit union for finnance.

The price gouging of the big two may well allow the CU sector a chance to move into the Agri-sector. Even a senior bank amnager stated in the last week that more competition was neede in the sector.

Definately a few new entrants are neede to reduce Interest rates to the buisness and agri sector

Timmaay

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

We had one it was called ACC bank. looking back at it was the Givernment for short term gain selling ACC and ICC. With the demise of these and the Building societ sector we are now left with the Big two, PTSB and the credit union for finnance.

The price gouging of the big two may well allow the CU sector a chance to move into the Agri-sector. Even a senior bank amnager stated in the last week that more competition was neede in the sector.

Definately a few new entrants are neede to reduce Interest rates to the buisness and agri sector

Are the CUs not horrendously experience for credit?

Farmer Pudsey

Timmaay wrote: »

Are the CUs not horrendously experience for credit?

I think you mean expensive. Up to now I would have taught so. But the Banks rates are so uncompeditive at present and the CU have access to huge amounts of cash that they may be able to compete with the said banks. The bigges issue is if you have to have substancial cash on deposit to access and hold onto a loan.

loveta

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I think you mean expensive. Up to now I would have taught so. But the Banks rates are so uncompeditive at present and the CU have access to huge amounts of cash that they may be able to compete with the said banks. The bigges issue is if you have to have substancial cash on deposit to access and hold onto a loan.

Credit union is 9.9% or I think 4.5 if you don't borrow more than you have in the account. Either rates are ridiculous. Banks are competitive but you have to be able for them.

blue5000

Thanks sheebadog, that's my 1000th thanks;)

sheebadog

blue5000 wrote: »

Thanks sheebadog, that's my 1000th thanks;)

You're welcome.

munkus

Username John wrote: »

I just checked my account online there and my overdraft interest rate is 14%

Now, this is is just a standard account, maybe you could get this reduced some way.

But it's a long way off from 3.3%

:mad:

Why are you using a personal account for farming? You'd get a business account from BOI with a rate of 8 - 9 % overdraft.

keep going

munkus wrote: »

Why are you using a personal account for farming? You'd get a business account from BOI with a rate of 8 - 9 % overdraft.

I have personal account for farming, all you have to do is NEVER use the overdraft and you havefree banking with tsb

munkus

keep going wrote: »

I have personal account for farming, all you have to do is NEVER use the overdraft and you havefree banking with tsb

Good man, all overdrafts are 0% if you don't use them. The last few post have been comparing interest rates.

Farmer Pudsey

loveta wrote: »

Credit union is 9.9% or I think 4.5 if you don't borrow more than you have in the account. Either rates are ridiculous. Banks are competitive but you have to be able for them.

Different credit unions are giving different rates. I think some give rebates at end of year so for instance machinery loans might often cost 7% or less hard to access that type of money from banks for less than 9ish%

4.5% for a land loan would be fairly compeditive in the present envoirment.

loveta

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Different credit unions are giving different rates. I think some give rebates at end of year so for instance machinery loans might often cost 7% or less hard to access that type of money from banks for less than 9ish%

4.5% for a land loan would be fairly compeditive in the present envoirment.

Plenty of deals being done with banks for all sorts of loans for way way lower than 4.5% in fact i would class 4.5% a total rip off in these present times, they will move heaven and earth not to give you these rates unless you can play them at there own games and play hard ball with them

Milked out

Anyone in Glanbia know if they are going ahead trying to organise finance for farmers, read an article in the journal mentioning something along those lines?

restive

I had intended to build a slatted tank in the autumn of 2015. I had intended to finance this by slaughtering 24 cattle in September 2015. I get a stocking loan annually from Bank of Ireland and currently have one to pay off on 1 December 2014, this loan will be paid for in full as it falls due.

I was thinking of approaching the bank now and asking for €25,000 for an 18 month loan to be paid of September 2015. That way I could have the slats down before next winter.

What do you think my chances of success are?