Zinsser BIN coming out rough

redser7

Hi, I'm painting my kitchen cabinets and was recommended in the paint shop to use Zinsser BIN for the primer. I've done a couple of doors but found it tricky to work with and the result is pretty rough in places where I've brushed over more than once. Could anyone offer advise? Should I sand? Apply another coat of primer? Any general advice on how to work with stuff wuld be apprciated because the finish is pretty rubbish. I'm a novice at this as you might guess.
I'm using a 2 1/2 inches synthetic brush.
Cheers

ibFoxer

Is it in a blue or red tin?

redser7

Shellac based red tin.

ibFoxer

Yeah the shellac one is a pain in the a$$, the bullseye is a much easier product to deal with. We don't keep the bin in store but i'm familiar enough with the product to know it's not coming out right at all for you-as i recall i ordered osme of this for a customer late last year and it was troublesome enough for him too, although he had smoke damage so different context. What kind of prep work did you do? If you like i can give the rep a shout tomorrow and see if he has any suggestions?

redser7

Thanks a million. I gave them a good clean with sugar soap, plenty of hot water and elbow grease. Pretty confident the surface was ok to work on.
I'm raging because I went in for a water based primer and she recommended this was defo the one to use. Probably is for a pro but I made it clear I'm a no expert.

.Henry Sellers.

Zinsser can be awkward to work with, Usually when I use it or any unmixed paint i'd get the guys in the paint shop to give it a shake up in the machine as it can be lying idle on a shelf for months. You might even find the paint is all lumpy on the bottom and won't mix in, it just takes elbow grease to mix it up or else an electric whisk. Make sure you give the paint a really good stir before using it.

Any rough parts you have on your doors I would guess are rope marks from your brush leaving heavy paint on the surface, just sand them back until you are happy with the surface and re-coat. You need to lay the paint off better rather than just slapping it on. Pick a panel and brush it in, then brush the whole panel horizontally, after this use a light touch and brush out the panel softly vertically. You are just flattening the paint down onto the surface and ensuring there is even coverage.

Alternatively get yourself a sponge roller and paint tray, it'll cut out a lot of brushing and will give you a more even finish if you're new.
Make sure you use a FFP3 face mask using shellac or oil based paints and plenty of ventilation, you can pick them up in your hardware shop for around €10, an FFP3 mask gives you better respiratory protection than a FFP2 or FFP1 mask.

Just take your time and sand between coats, kitchen cabinets are a tedious job and usually cost a bit to get done professionally.

redser7

That's great advise Henry, thanks a lot. Would love to use a roller but they are shaker style so I need a brush. Ill take it handier for sure and try be more precise.
Cheers

ibFoxer

Basically everything .Henry Sellers said. If you have no luck or you feel like the bin isnt doing its job PM me your number and i will contact the rep and see what he says.

.Henry Sellers.

redser7 wrote: »

That's great advise Henry, thanks a lot. Would love to use a roller but they are shaker style so I need a brush. Ill take it handier for sure and try be more precise.
Cheers

You can still use the roller on the shaker style, just use your brush to cut into the corners and between the joints of the timber and when you have the whole panel cut in just use the roller for the flat parts. It may sound more troublesome with the roller and brush but you'll get into a system and become efficient at it the more you paint.

For example when you're painting the doors, remove all handles but put the screw from the handle back into the door to act as a mini handle, you can paint right up to and around the screw ensuring maximum coverage instead of trying to paint around an awkward handle. Leave the doors hanging instead of removing them for when they are being painted, some doors may need to be removed to get full access to paint them.
When painting the doors I'd paint the front of the panel first, open up the door and then paint the back and just leave the door open until it dries.
When your doors are coated, paint the sides of cabinets and kickboards, leave the kickboards until last as you might pick up dirt on the brush from the ground.
I'd normally take off the doors so as to get full access to the surface they close onto. When that "closing" surface is fully finished you can hang the doors and give them a finishing coat. Don't forget to caulk between any gaps you might find along the way too, it'll improve the finish. After about ten minutes just go back and check your work incase you have any runs in the paint, every professional gets runs in their paint its just catching them in time is whats key.

I know the above sound laborious and it is but just keep at it and you'll get through it, Cabinets are a pain but when done right you'll be grateful instead of shelving out for a new kitchen. Best of luck with it.

redser7

Thanks again folks, all very helpful!

karlitob

Hey redder,
Wondering how it worked out for you? Any before and after pics. I have laminate doors to paint, some ikea furniture, bathroom cabinets etc. I wondered would the Zinsser BIN be too hard to work with and would any other to their products be better such as the Bulls Eye 1-2-3 which I think is water based or indeed any other product other than zinsser. Thanks.

redser7

Hi haven't got photos but it turned out great, often get comments on it.
Took a while to get the hang of the BIN primer. Most important thing is to apply it quick, lay it off and dont go over it again. It dries so fast that if you brush over it again in a couple of minutes it will 'lift' on you. Sand it smooth with a sanding sponge when dry.
Having said that I used water based colour trend primer on later jobs because BIN is so expensive. Much much easier to work with, dries quick but not super quick. Brushes clean up easier too and it's cheaper. I won't be using BIN again as a DIY person.

karlitob

redser7 wrote: »

Hi haven't got photos but it turned out great, often get comments on it.
Took a while to get the hang of the BIN primer. Most important thing is to apply it quick, lay it off and dont go over it again. It dries so fast that if you brush over it again in a couple of minutes it will 'lift' on you. Sand it smooth with a sanding sponge when dry.
Having said that I used water based colour trend primer on later jobs because BIN is so expensive. Much much easier to work with, dries quick but not super quick. Brushes clean up easier too and it's cheaper. I won't be using BIN again as a DIY person.

Thanks for that. Appreciate the input. I am planning to paint my windows/doors out the back - very old pvc (I think) so I'd need the BIN for that. But if I can get away with a cheaper primer for what is a cheap product I think I will.
Thanks again

Big Cheese

I painted my shaker style kitchen using a 4" foam roller, this gets into grooves etc then use brush on any bits u cant get with roller. Don't over apply, sand between coats always.

Big Cheese

karlitob wrote:

Thanks for that. Appreciate the input. I am planning to paint my windows/doors out the back - very old pvc (I think) so I'd need the BIN for that. But if I can get away with a cheaper primer for what is a cheap product I think I will. Thanks again

Do not use BIN for pvc. Clean the pvc with meths then give it a coat of Bullseye 123 plus or use Owatrol ESP.

karlitob

Big Cheese wrote: »

Do not use BIN for pvc. Clean the pvc with meths then give it a coat of Bullseye 123 plus or use Owatrol ESP.

Ah, really? I was led to believe that bullseye 123 as a water based isn't sufficient for external elements? I think I have more aluminium than plc actually - I have both around the house and put down the incorrect one earlier.
Thanks again.

oisinbutler

karlitob wrote: »

Ah, really? I was led to believe that bullseye 123 as a water based isn't sufficient for external elements? I think I have more aluminium than plc actually - I have both around the house and put down the incorrect one earlier.
Thanks again.

Bullseye 123 plus doesn’t cut the mustard and I wouldn't use regular 123. If it's more aluminium that you have then use an aluminium primer. Give the surface a good rub Down with some wire wool first then dust off and wipe everything down with methalated spirits, not white spirits.

karlitob

oisinbutler wrote: »

Bullseye 123 plus doesn’t cut the mustard and I wouldn't use regular 123. If it's more aluminium that you have then use an aluminium primer. Give the surface a good rub Down with some wire wool first then dust off and wipe everything down with methalated spirits, not white spirits.

Hi Oisin
Thanks for the advice - spotted your website - love your work. Any suggestions for the aluminium primer. I was thinking it would be better to mask up the window/surround and spray painting to ensure better coverage. Any experience with spray painting - would those aldi deals suffice.
Thanks

oisinbutler

karlitob wrote: »

Hi Oisin
Thanks for the advice - spotted your website - love your work. Any suggestions for the aluminium primer. I was thinking it would be better to mask up the window/surround and spray painting to ensure better coverage. Any experience with spray painting - would those aldi deals suffice.
Thanks

Thanks Karlitob. Plenty of experience with spray painting. I wouldn't bother in this situation though, you'll spend more time masking up, mixing paint, setting up the paint sprayer then putting it all away again and cleaning up. If you are painting over aluminum windows then then give them a rub down with some wet & dry paper, give them a good dusting then wipe down with methalated spirits. The mets will help clean down the windows and unlike white spirits they won't leave any residue. For priming you should use an etch primer. There are different brands and some all in one etch primer and finish. If you go to a paint shop, not woodies etc, a decent paint shop then they should be able to recommend a good etch primer.
You can mask up the windows with some low tack painters tape, it's easier to remove when the jobs done.
couple of things to watch out for, make sure the temperature of the surface isn't too hot or cold, the temperature can interfere with the paint curing and generally under mine the whole job.
instead of putting the paint on heavy, put on several thin coats and really spread it out. This will help drying and curing and in the long run will give you a better finish.

I have seen those Aldi sprayers, might be good for spraying garden fence panels or a shed. Wouldn't use it for windows.

karlitob

Excellent advice - thank you.