Wearing black cycling tops

lismore7

Have the opportunaity of getting one the Altura Varium Softshell cycling jackets for €50 (not easy task) but it's in black....
As I'm a road cyclist, wearing a black top worries me, as it's obviously not very hi vis!!
Wondering should I pass on this good deal or not?
Anyone else cycle in black top halves?

seamus

I wear black all the time, it's not an issue.

High vis provides no benefit during the day and at night you should have lights on. So don't worry about what you're wearing.

Seweryn

lismore7 wrote: »

Have the opportunaity of getting one the Altura Varium Softshell cycling jackets for €50 (not easy task) but it's in black....
As I'm a road cyclist, wearing a black top worries me, as it's obviously not very hi vis!!
Wondering should I pass on this good deal or not?
Anyone else cycle in black top halves?

If you commute in the winter (i.e. when is dark outside) in this jacket, it doesn't matter assuming you have good lights.

hmmm

As a car driver, anything you can do to make yourself more visible is a good thing. Particularly when it is wet, or when a cyclist is wearing clothes that blend in with the background it can be difficult to see you. Black is a hard colour to spot, particularly in fading light in towns or on the open road.

rollingscone

The jacket I have with best night time visibility is black but has really well placed and effective portions.

On bright days or at night a black jersey/jacket should be fine as reflective strips/piping and your bike's lights are what will be visible.

Common sense applies, if it's a dull day or twilight wear one of your brighter jerseys.

Chips Lovell

Wouldn't bother me. Virtually all of the non-club gear I have these days is black.

If a motorist isn't going to see your lights, your jacket is hardly going to make a difference. If it did, the reflective piping is the first thing that would be seen, not the jacket's colour.

De Bhál

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Wouldn't bother me. Virtually all of the non-club gear I have these days is black.

If a motorist isn't going to see your lights, your jacket is hardly going to make a difference. If it did, the reflective piping is the first thing that would be seen, not the jacket's colour.

This is true on country roads where there are no other lights but in a city environment where there lights flashing and blinking all over the place it makes no harm to make yourself that bit more visible with some bright clothing.

The problem with telling someone a light is fine and is enough is they will then stick a €10 blinky thing under their saddle and wear all black clothing thinking they're dandy.Well they're not.
I drive through Dublin regurlarly and on a wet winters day cyclists with a bit of bright clothing stand out a bit. Lights alone can somethimes not be enough as they be swallowed up.
That's my view on thinigs and I know quite a few here would disagree with me.

rollingscone

De Bhál wrote: »

This is true on country roads where there are no other lights but in a city environment where there lights flashing and blinking all over the place it makes no harm to make yourself that bit more visible with some bright clothing.

The problem with telling someone a light is fine and is enough is they will then stick a €10 blinky thing under their saddle and wear all black clothing thinking they're dandy.Well they're not.
I drive through Dublin regurlarly and on a wet winters day cyclists with a bit of bright clothing stand out a bit. Lights alone can somethimes not be enough as they be swallowed up.
That's my view on thinigs and I know quite a few here would disagree with me.

That ignores the point people have made about reflective surfaces. Also, it has already been stated that during darker daytime brighter is better.

Chips Lovell

I cycle and drive in Dublin.

My advice to anyone with inadequate lights would be to get better lights.

ragazzo

De Bhál wrote: »

This is true on country roads where there are no other lights but in a city environment where there lights flashing and blinking all over the place it makes no harm to make yourself that bit more visible with some bright clothing.

The problem with telling someone a light is fine and is enough is they will then stick a €10 blinky thing under their saddle and wear all black clothing thinking they're dandy.Well they're not.
I drive through Dublin regurlarly and on a wet winters day cyclists with a bit of bright clothing stand out a bit. Lights alone can somethimes not be enough as they be swallowed up.
That's my view on thinigs and I know quite a few here would disagree with me.

The colour of a jacket is seemingly irrelevant when it comes to driver safety issues.
Many people believe that a bright kit or hi vis is life saving equipment and that all motorists will spot you provided you wear this type of clothing.

I, sometimes, drive a very large bright coloured vehicle. It has hi vis stripes and all mandatory lighting arrangements. I utilise some of these lights during daylight hours.

You think that would make me visible to all road users, right?

Unfortunately, I experience more motorists pulling out in front and turning across me than I ever do when I am cycling in a black jersey.

Some people are just really crap, arrogant and totally ignorant drivers regardless of the colour of your kit or the use of your hi vis.
They are probably the same idiots who try to push ahead of you in a queue.

Perhaps it is a character trait but wearing bright coloured clothing will not resolve it.

slap/dash

completely agree with previous posters. i wear black on the regular, but have very reflective material also, and always have strong lights on my bike, even in daytime just in case the weather turns etc.

no amount of visibility will make you fully safe, and theres plenty to be said for just taking the space you need. in fact i have found that that is pretty much the only thing guaranteed to ensure that they see you! for all the 'wrong' reasons of course:)

bottom line, make yourself visible in how you ride, in as courteous a manner as is compatible with your own safety & always always have strong lights.

the constant messages about hi viz, while it may help a little, are more ideological than empirical, and imo are at the service of shifting excess responsibility onto cyclists as if riding safe, reflective gear and strong lights were not already enough on our end to 'justify' our right to be on a road. its mission creep in the guise of safety.
/rant.

hmmm

slap/dash wrote: »

as if riding safe, reflective gear and strong lights were not already enough on our end to 'justify' our right to be on a road

No-ones looking for you to justify you being on the road, it's simple common sense to make yourself as visible as possible. There's always morons in cars, but you're playing the percentage game and reducing the risk that a non-moron won't see you.

It's terrifying in a car to be driving along and come upon a cyclist in stealth mode who is wearing colours that blend into the hedge/background. The same way as we have stealth mode eejits in black cars driving around with no lights in the twilight.

check_six

De Bhál wrote: »

The problem with telling someone a light is fine and is enough is they will then stick a €10 blinky thing under their saddle and wear all black clothing thinking they're dandy.Well they're not.
I drive through Dublin regurlarly and on a wet winters day cyclists with a bit of bright clothing stand out a bit. Lights alone can somethimes not be enough as they be swallowed up.

Use good lights. Accept no substitutes. Dark winter morning? Switch on lights. Twilight? Switch on lights. Night time? Switch on lights.

If a good set of lights cannot be discerned by other road users because "they be swallowed up" then cyclists would be getting hit regularly. Also, the jersey colour is not going to help in any scenario where good lights are not enough to alert people to your presence.

Too many are relying on just a yellow tabard nowadays. Message needs to be modified: Lights and reflectors = good, everything else = window dressing.

Going off on a tangent, I'm surprised how noticable ninja cyclists (no lights, dark face mask, throwing stars maybe) are. You'd think these shadow warriors of the highways would melt into the background more effectively.
I find it amusing when I catch myself cursing them for not having lights when I've spotted them from 100m+ out. (This is not condoning having no lights, just an observation).

Cyclewizard

I wear black no problem especially on weekend rides or out in country during the day. No issues. But i do tend to wear hi viz when commuting now (I didn't used to) basically because I also drive to work in dublin some days and do find high viz easier to spot in my mirrors and that's what kind of convinced me. It's not so much overtaking a cyclist but them coming up on cars stuck in traffic or moving past cars, I do tend to spot them earlier, maybe the hi viz against the more somber car colours etc. Just my experience though!

I'd have thought it has some benefits though as it's used in other sectors and industries were visibility is important?

rollingscone

As has been said always have lights, that said, it's been a very hi-vis plus lights commuting year so far i.e. lots of grey haze

beauf

seamus wrote: »

I wear black all the time, it's not an issue.

High vis provides no benefit during the day and at night you should have lights on. So don't worry about what you're wearing.

high visibility clothing is intended to provide conspicuity of the wearer in any light condition when viewed by operators of vehicles or other mechanized equipment during daylight conditions and under illumination of headlights in the dark.

The reflective strips are the main visibility aids at night. But the bright colors are intended for daylight. Though if you are in the city and under street lights, the bright color can help too.

lismore7 wrote: »

Have the opportunaity of getting one the Altura Varium Softshell cycling jackets for €50 (not easy task) but it's in black....
As I'm a road cyclist, wearing a black top worries me, as it's obviously not very hi vis!!
Wondering should I pass on this good deal or not?
Anyone else cycle in black top halves?

Get a sam browne high visibility belt, very effective at night. But get really decent lights. Thats the main thing. Keep them charged, batteries fresh.

Having a yellow vest, but no reflective strips or decent lights, is not a good idea.

lismore7

Thanks guys....good advice....
I just didn't was to turn down the opportunity of getting this Altura cycle jacket at such a good price, just because of the colour.
I do all my cycling in the country and briefly going through small towns/villages, during good day light hours. So from what most of you are saying is that a black cycle jacket is fine for daytime spins.
Maybe the addition of lights for darker winter spins, wouldn't go amiss? Although I've not yet come across any cyclists round here using lights during the day

Ironlungs

I'm pretty new to the forum, but I have noticed when a discussion like this crops up, there are guys who get defensive about it.

I drive and I cycle. There is no question in my mind, none whatsoever, that bright clothing worn by cyclists makes them more visible - from further away (allowing planning for an overtake manoevre), in mirrors (helps when you're making a turn), be it day or night - though of course reflective piping is an absolute requirement at night regardless of your chosen colour. Of course there are gob****e drivers who wouldn't see a yellow fluorescent landrover with flashing lights and rainbows shooting out of the exhaust - they'd still pull out in front of it. There is nothing we can do about these drivers. But for all other drivers (and pedestrians), it helps to be bright when using the road.

Of course you need lights, that's a separate discussion and not the question asked. I personally wouldn't wear black. Despite the fact that I would look cooler and slimmer. Like another poster, I too spot cyclists no matter what they are wearing, but my radar is constantly on for cyclists. Most drivers who are not cyclists could use a little help for their radars though.

Ironlungs

Double post

dave_o_brien

De Bhál wrote: »

This is true on country roads where there are no other lights but in a city environment where there lights flashing and blinking all over the place it makes no harm to make yourself that bit more visible with some bright clothing.

The problem with telling someone a light is fine and is enough is they will then stick a €10 blinky thing under their saddle and wear all black clothing thinking they're dandy.Well they're not.
I drive through Dublin regurlarly and on a wet winters day cyclists with a bit of bright clothing stand out a bit. Lights alone can somethimes not be enough as they be swallowed up.
That's my view on thinigs and I know quite a few here would disagree with me.

But what happens when the colours you choose to wear blend in to shop fronts, famously colourful Georgian doors, or the colours of other cars? WHat happens when your reflective gear blends in to the reflective surfaces of street signs, warning fixtures, car registrations or glass? How can anyone consider such safety strategies safe?! I commute (by bike, bus and car) daily, and can honestly say I get confused between lights, colours and reflective surfaces so frequently that I am surprised I don't fall down more frequently.

Darkglasses

When I started off I generally wore very bright jackets, less so now. Don't think it makes any difference, you should be clearly visible through both your lights and your road position. Road position is even more underestimated as a safety concern than lights IMO.

monkeyslayer

i had a very serious accident in dublin city center a few weeks back where a car that didnt see me ran thru me... now it could have happened anyway but two things i had done differently that day compared to every other spin was (1) i wore a dark grey jacket for the first time instead of the red one id been wearing for years and (2) i was wearing my high altitude mountaineering sun glasses, and i hardly ever wear sunglasses on the bike. So mayb my own perhipheral vision of the traffic around me and/or my usual sense of safety was
compromised by the colour i was wearing. I dont think wearing the glasses was a mistake, that car was gonna hit me but maybe i wouldv 'sensed' it sooner... and no point in wondering what if id worn the red jacket etc but i do know for certain my next jacket wont be a dark colour.

rollingscone

Ironlungs wrote: »

I'm pretty new to the forum, but I have noticed when a discussion like this crops up, there are guys who get defensive about it.

I drive and I cycle. There is no question in my mind, none whatsoever, that bright clothing worn by cyclists makes them more visible - from further away (allowing planning for an overtake manoevre), in mirrors (helps when you're making a turn), be it day or night - though of course reflective piping is an absolute requirement at night regardless of your chosen colour. Of course there are gob****e drivers who wouldn't see a yellow fluorescent landrover with flashing lights and rainbows shooting out of the exhaust - they'd still pull out in front of it. There is nothing we can do about these drivers. But for all other drivers (and pedestrians), it helps to be bright when using the road.

Of course you need lights, that's a separate discussion and not the question asked. I personally wouldn't wear black. Despite the fact that I would look cooler and slimmer. Like another poster, I too spot cyclists no matter what they are wearing, but my radar is constantly on for cyclists. Most drivers who are not cyclists could use a little help for their radars though.

We get defensive because people try and pass on bad advice that often encourages people to put their faith in bad practices and/or makes cycling seem far more dangerous than it is.

Almost everyone here both drives and cycles, the point is that festooning cyclists in fetishised flourescent clothing or mandatory helmets is a way of ignoring real issues, like road position and the importance of the rules of the road.

The constant focus in the English speaking world at least on the vulnerability of cyclists seems counterproductive to me in that failure to treat cycling as an equally valid form of transport undermines what little message of taking responsibility and obeying the law there is.

Instead the general public are subjected to a constant barage of CYCLING IN DANGER which is the one constant you hear from dockheads* to justify their running red lights, footpath cycling and other such crimes against cycledom.



*as in people who coincidentally are terrible cyclists while loving Docks...no swearing here. Move along.

tunney

hmmm wrote: »

As a car driver, anything you can do to make yourself more visible is a good thing. Particularly when it is wet, or when a cyclist is wearing clothes that blend in with the background it can be difficult to see you. Black is a hard colour to spot, particularly in fading light in towns or on the open road.

In the dark what colour is red?

Do you often drive your car at night without the lights on?

"SEE THAT CYCLIST THERE, THE ONE WITH NO HI-VIZ ON, I ALMOST DIDN'T SEE THEM"

Yawn

Ironlungs

rollingscone wrote: »

We get defensive because people try and pass on bad advice that often encourages people to put their faith in bad practices and/or makes cycling seem far more dangerous than it is.

Almost everyone here both drives and cycles, the point is that festooning cyclists in fetishised flourescent clothing or mandatory helmets is a way of ignoring real issues, like road position and the importance of the rules of the road.

The constant focus in the English speaking world at least on the vulnerability of cyclists seems counterproductive to me in that failure to treat cycling as an equally valid form of transport undermines what little message of taking responsibility and obeying the law there is.

Instead the general public are subjected to a constant barage of CYCLING IN DANGER which is the one constant you hear from dockheads* to justify their running red lights, footpath cycling and other such crimes against cycledom.



*as in people who coincidentally are terrible cyclists while loving Docks...no swearing here. Move along.

That is to assume that advice is given in isolation. But when we tell an 'L' driver, make sure and have your headlights on in dusky conditions, we assume that the guy knows that he still needs to wear a seatbelt and occupy a good road position and respect red lights etc. No one is dumb enough to assume that just turning on the lights will keep them safe.

For me, wearing bright clothing is part of the holistic spectrum of what it takes to stay safe on the roads - obviously not enough in isolation, but combined with other factors such as road position and lighting, it helps cyclists to stay safe.

I don't see the need to be defensive (yet anyway, but I'm not too obstinate to change my mind about stuff like this), but to my mind, cycling can be dangerous, especially in urban areas. You share the road with a lot of elements that can kill or maim if it all goes wrong. I have to say that cycling rurally, I have never felt unsafe, and that is where I do the vast majority of my cycling these days. Urban cycling throws up a lot more challenges, for all road users, and can be more dangerous. Advising people to be visible is reasonable advice in my view.

joe50

Ironlungs wrote: »

Of course you need lights, that's a separate discussion and not the question asked. I personally wouldn't wear black.

it patently isn't.. and to suggest that it is directly contradicts your subsequent assertions

Ironlungs wrote: »

For me, wearing bright clothing is part of the holistic spectrum of what it takes to stay safe on the roads - obviously not enough in isolation, but combined with other factors such as road position and lighting, it helps cyclists to stay safe.

cycling isn't inherently more dangerous than other forms of transport.. to suggest that it is is actually quite a harmful line of reasoning..

Ironlungs wrote: »

I don't see the need to be defensive (yet anyway, but I'm not too obstinate to change my mind about stuff like this), but to my mind, cycling can be dangerous, especially in urban areas. You share the road with a lot of elements that can kill or maim if it all goes wrong.

the need to be defensive arises when people make false assertions which can lead to unhelpful and disrespectful attitudes toward cyclists.. this affects us all

Ironlungs wrote: »

Advising people to be visible is reasonable advice in my view.

presumably car drivers should also wear high viz so that they can increase their visibility? it's common sense after all

Ironlungs

joe50 wrote: »

it patently isn't.. and to suggest that it is directly contradicts your subsequent assertions



cycling isn't inherently more dangerous than other forms of transport.. to suggest that it is is actually quite a harmful line of reasoning..



the need to be defensive arises when people make false assertions which can lead to unhelpful and disrespectful attitudes toward cyclists.. this affects us all



presumably car drivers should also wear high viz so that they can increase their visibility? it's common sense after all

This is a rather ridiculous post. It sums up exactly what I was referring to with regards to the excessively defensive standpoints.

Where to begin?
The question under discussion in this thread is the colour of a cycling jacket. I already stated that it is presumed that cyclists have the common sense to take a holistic approach to safety, I doubt anyone would assume that the colour of their jacket would be the only measure needed to stay safe. A general road safety discussion would encompass a lot more than that, road position being paramount.

I never once stated or inferred that cycling is a more dangerous way to get around than other means of transport. I stated my own observations on the matter. Are cyclists more vulnerable than other road users? Of course, so they should take some precautions. That's not to say that some lunatic isn't going to run them over anyway, but I already said that.

It is not a false assertion to share one's own personal experience.

To sum up by suggesting that car drivers use high vis? This is from the Neil Francis school of debate. Do I need to argue that car drivers are enclosed in their vehicles, which come with lights and reflectors built in as standard?

Or am I snapping at a bait that only a fool would snap at? The interweb is a curious place.

Stay safe everyone! And regarding your riding fashions - to each their own! (As I stated, I personally wouldn't wear black!*)




*Based on my own personal experiences of driving and what I find to be more/less visible. As explained in other posts above.

petethedrummer

Would an outfit like this be better than a luminous jacket?

rollingscone

petethedrummer wrote: »

Would an outfit like this be better than a luminous jacket?

Team Sky?

lismore7

Is that the new Altura "can you see me now" winter jacket?

rollingscone

Ironlungs wrote: »

This is a rather ridiculous post. It sums up exactly what I was referring to with regards to the excessively defensive standpoints.

Where to begin?
The question under discussion in this thread is the colour of a cycling jacket. I already stated that it is presumed that cyclists have the common sense to take a holistic approach to safety, I doubt anyone would assume that the colour of their jacket would be the only measure needed to stay safe. A general road safety discussion would encompass a lot more than that, road position being paramount.

I never once stated or inferred that cycling is a more dangerous way to get around than other means of transport. I stated my own observations on the matter. Are cyclists more vulnerable than other road users? Of course, so they should take some precautions. That's not to say that some lunatic isn't going to run them over anyway, but I already said that.

It is not a false assertion to share one's own personal experience.

To sum up by suggesting that car drivers use high vis? This is from the Neil Francis school of debate. Do I need to argue that car drivers are enclosed in their vehicles, which come with lights and reflectors built in as standard?

Or am I snapping at a bait that only a fool would snap at? The interweb is a curious place.

Stay safe everyone! And regarding your riding fashions - to each their own! (As I stated, I personally wouldn't wear black!*)




*Based on my own personal experiences of driving and what I find to be more/less visible. As explained in other posts above.

1. Anyone who disagrees with you is "Defensive" and therefore counterfactual.

2. You're stating that your personal experiences are the basis for your argument yet treating your argument as if it's factually superior.

Ironlungs

rollingscone wrote: »

1. Anyone who disagrees with you is "Defensive" and therefore counterfactual.

2. You're stating that your personal experiences are the basis for your argument yet treating your argument as if it's factually superior.

Rollingscone, I don't know how you can come to that conclusion by reading my posts. I've made it pretty clear that the fact that I can see bright things more easily than dark things is my humble opinion based on personal experience.

I can see that this is a raw nerve with some. Quite strange really, but so be it.

bobcranfret

Ironlungs wrote: »

Rollingscone, I don't know how you can come to that conclusion by reading my posts. I've made it pretty clear that the fact that I can see bright things more easily than dark things is my humble opinion based on personal experience.

I can see that this is a raw nerve with some. Quite strange really, but so be it.

My favourite cycling jersey is black, so I wear it a lot. But I have to agree with Ironlungs: my experience has been that if I am driving during the day along a country road, I will see a cyclist wearing a brighter-coloured jersey from a greater distance than a cyclist wearing a darker jersey. I'm not drawing any conclusions. Just my experience.

Harrybelafonte

hmmm wrote: »

No-ones looking for you to justify you being on the road, it's simple common sense to make yourself as visible as possible. There's always morons in cars, but you're playing the percentage game and reducing the risk that a non-moron won't see you.

It's terrifying in a car to be driving along and come upon a cyclist in stealth mode who is wearing colours that blend into the hedge/background. The same way as we have stealth mode eejits in black cars driving around with no lights in the twilight.

There is no such thing.

CramCycle

Ironlungs wrote: »

I've made it pretty clear that the fact that I can see bright things more easily than dark things is my humble opinion based on personal experience.

In my experience, at night, a ninja cyclist can be wearing shocking pink, but if it has no reflective properties then it is no more visible with my dims on than a black jacket. Driving the other night, the only reason I seen two people outside UCD is the reflectors on their pedals, not the reasonably bright yellow or grey jacket that they were wearing. I seen them with about 25metres as the street lamps were not on this stretch of the Goatstown/Clonskeagh road. If they had lights I would have seen them with 100metres, if they had high vis, my lights were on dim so I may have caught light from a street lamp but they were all gone at the time. So in all honesty, barring the county council can guarantee no lights will fail in future and that when people say bright colour jacket they mean any colour with high quality reflective strips, then IMHO, the colour of a jacket makes sweet **** all difference. A good set of lights overcomes all of these issues though.

Chips Lovell

petethedrummer wrote: »

Would an outfit like this be better than a luminous jacket?

Given how visible it would make you, you'd be a fool not to wear it.

irishmotorist

OP, personally, I wouldn't get a black jacket - particularly for this time of year, but not only. This is a divisive subject (as you can see from above), but IMO, if you are wearing a bright top, (e.g. bright Yellow), you are more visible. It's a more conspicuous colour that is less likely to be lost against a city background.

Of course you should have lights, but it's down to your own judgement if you think you should supplement that.

jimmycrackcorm

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I cycle and drive in Dublin.

My advice to anyone with inadequate lights would be to get better lights.

I drove on to a roundabout and almost hit a cyclist on it one dark evening as he was wearing dark clothing. Better lights do not help from a side view.

Chips Lovell

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Better lights do not help from a side view.

If you can't see bike lights from the side, they're very poor.

tomasrojo

The Wikipedia page on High Visibility Clothing says that a study showed cyclists were more visible from further away but the study didn't address whether this resulted in fewer collisions. Other studies don't show any measurable benefit to hi-viz in this second respect.

Railway workers wearing hi-viz resulted in a measurable drop in injury, probably because the speeds are high and the sightlines are good, so seeing a very unexpected pedestrian in the far distance is possible and important. Not so applicable to winding roads (poor sightlines) or cities (lower speed means stopping distance and therefore critical time to observe and stop are lower).

tomasrojo

Hi-viz doesn't help much either in the catr joining the roundabout scenario, as your headlights are pointing left, away from the cyclist.

Wrist lights do help here. Or opre powerful lights that illuminate the road.

CramCycle

My light lights up the road like a headlamp, even if I was invisible, you would see my light, even from behind (although I have decent rear lights as well)

beauf

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

If you can't see bike lights from the side, they're very poor.

A lot of bike lights don't show light to the side. They are very directional.

Worth checking can they be seen from side on.

beauf

tomasrojo wrote: »

The Wikipedia page on High Visibility Clothing says that a study showed cyclists were more visible from further away but the study didn't address whether this resulted in fewer collisions. Other studies don't show any measurable benefit to hi-viz in this second respect.

Railway workers wearing hi-viz resulted in a measurable drop in injury, probably because the speeds are high and the sightlines are good, so seeing a very unexpected pedestrian in the far distance is possible and important. Not so applicable to winding roads (poor sightlines) or cities (lower speed means stopping distance and therefore critical time to observe and stop are lower).

I think its worth quoting.

A Cochrane Systematic Review of research evidence for the effectiveness of visibility aids (fluorescent and retroreflective clothing and equipment) was carried out by Kwan and Mapstone in 2006.[6] The authors found 42 studies which collectively suggested that fluorescent clothing could increase the distance at which drivers could detect and then recognise, cyclists in daylight conditions. The same review found evidence that retro-reflective materials worn by cyclists at night had a similar effect on driver perceptions. At that time there were no studies published that had actually demonstrated an association with reduced collision crashes for bicyclists wearing fluorescent or retroreflective visibility aids whilst on public roads.

An 2009 Australian study of drivers trying to see stationary cyclists on a closed circuit found that fluorescent vests (without retro-reflective stripes) were not a significant improvement on black clothing at night, and that retro-reflective strips were more effective when attached to knees and ankles than on a more or less static jacket.[7]

A 2012 British case-control study showed a non-significant increase in the odds of a crash for users of reflective conspicuity aids whilst cycling. [8]
In 2014 a further case-control study conducted in Canada reported a decrease in the odds of a collision with a motor vehicle when wearing 'light' (not specifically fluorescent) coloured clothing in daylight but an increase in the odds of a collision for cyclists using fluorescent clothing (and lights) at night. The number of conspicuity aids used was positively associated with an increase in collision crash odds but a non-significant reduction in the likelihood of hospitalisation. [9] These results show a large safety effect in simulated or experimental conditions but little if any benefit of conspicuity aids use in observations of actual utility cyclists. This apparent contradiction may arise because of a form of risk compensation. Cyclists using conspicuity aids might be overestimating the level of protection conspicuity aids actually confer when used whilst cycling in traffic.

Personally I like to to be bright when I'm cycling. In the winter at night, and I've I've got my black jersey on I prefer to throw my yellow jack over it. In the summer I probably won't bother. But having been knocked off in the past when in hi viz and with 4 bright lights on the bike, on a brightly lit street, I always assume no one can see me regardless of what gear I have.

If someones not looking, or staring into space or preoccupied. They won't see you anyway.

Chips Lovell

beauf wrote: »

A lot of bike lights don't show light to the side.

Yup. Plenty of people riding around with completely useless lights.

beauf

Both of my front lights are 3w cree's only one though has some marginal side windows. Great lights. Flawed but far from useless. Was thinking of some led's on the spokes.

bicycleuniverse.info posts these statistics:

Cyclist fatalities occurred more frequently in urban areas (66%), at nonintersection locations (67%), between the hours of 5 p.m. and 9 p.m. (30%), and during the months of June, July, and August (36%). (NHTSA, 2004)

In 1999, 39% of deaths on bicycles nationwide occurred between 6 p.m. and midnight.

Although in a much different latitude, the city of Edgewater, FL posts these interesting facts:

Nearly 60 per cent of all adult fatal bicycle accidents in Florida occur during twilight and night hours although less than three percent of bicycle use takes place at that time.

Many factors compound the danger of riding at night, such as:

-Motorists driving under the influence of drugs/alcohol.

-Motorist’s ability to see what is ahead is limited to the area illuminated by headlights. Visibility is further reduced by the glare from lights of oncoming vehicles.

USA specific. So not directly applicable to us.

Macy0161

As someone who is red/green colour blind, some of the "hi vis" stuff isn't that effective - I'd see a black on green easier than, for example, orange and green. I go for lights, and reflective bands on my ankles and arms, before I'd go full on hi-vis jacket tbh.

Hi vis jacket in the city, when motorised vehicles are on dipped lights, doesn't seem such an edition to me. Ankle bands are more in the drivers eyeline. In the country a jacket may be more visible, but then your lights would stand out anyway (plus any other reflective material).

All reflective material isn't created equally either. My anecdotal evidence of the lidl/ aldi bands that they sell a couple times a year is that they're pretty good (accidentally left one on a windsow sill outside our rural house - could see it from about 200 yards+ as I came around the corner).

Junior

Wear what you want, just f*ckin cycle your bike.

doozerie

Clothing colour is not unlike the topic of helmets in that it distracts from worthwhile topics that are really important. Wear what you want, helmet or not, whatever colour you choose, but it’s all secondary (if even that) to awareness and common sense when cycling. Nothing comes close to good lights for making you visible at night, or in murky weather, but even they won’t keep you safe if you ride in a way that puts you in danger (cutting up the inside of a left turning vehicle, riding obliviously in the blind spot of a vehicle, running a red light and weaving between crossing traffic, etc.). Ride sensibly, which includes using good lights at night, everything else is just window dressing.

Incidentally, I wore a red top when cycling to work this morning. I’d consider it quite visible in daylight. I’ll be wearing it again when I cycle home. Being red, its visibility at night time is poor. Some people would have you believe that I should keep a different cycling wardrobe just for my journey home in the dark. Or they might suggest that I just replace my red top with something hi-vis, in other words replace my extremely comfortable and functional merino top with a bright yellow bin-liner. I’ll take my chances with my current top, thanks. Similarly, if it rains, some people will presumably fret over the fact that I’ll be donning an outer shell of black eVent waterproof trousers, and partly black GoreTex rain jacket. They’d presumably prefer that I use non-breathable boil-in-the-bag layers there too.

There are many reasons that people choose to wear non- hi-viz or non- bright colours on the bike, and at least one of those may be the very practical issue that *functional* cycling clothing is often simply not available in those colours. There are lots of very good reasons why I will not replace all of my cycling kit with eye-searing alternatives, but I probably couldn’t even if I wanted to.

Wishbone Ash

Ironlungs wrote: »

... there are guys who get defensive about it.

I drive and I cycle. There is no question in my mind, none whatsoever, that bright clothing worn by cyclists makes them more visible - from further away (allowing planning for an overtake manoevre), in mirrors (helps when you're making a turn), be it day or night .....

It looks like I'm going to "get defensive" but two points:

1. Whether behind or meeting a cyclist, good lights are way more visible than a hi-viz jacket. Good lights, front or rear, can be seen up to a kilometer away. A hi-viz jacket won't be seen until much closer.

2. If you can spot a hi-viz jacket in the rear view mirror at night it simply means the cyclist doesn't have effective front lighting.

I cycle and drive also.

mamax

Ironlungs wrote: »

I drive and I cycle. There is no question in my mind, none whatsoever, that bright clothing worn by cyclists makes them more visible - from further away (allowing planning for an overtake manoevre)

But for all other drivers (and pedestrians), it helps to be bright when using the road.

Like another poster, I too spot cyclists no matter what they are wearing, but my radar is constantly on for cyclists. Most drivers who are not cyclists could use a little help for their radars though.

I just quoted bits of your post as these are my feelings exactly

And note: the op does most of his cycling in the country in daytime so where is the need to discuss lights in this thread