Storm Damage and Landlord Responsiblity

Dr_Colossus

Situation is as follows, on Wed during the stormy weather the old cast iron eave guttering that was on the front of the two storey house came down. Luckily no one was killed given the weight of it but I had my car in the off street car parking spot on the premises at the front of the house and the guttering came down upon it denting the front wing, scraping the bonnet and bumper and cracking the windscreen. Initial estimates from a few car crash repair garages at the weekend are placing the damage at between €600 and €700 euro as a replacement wing is required given the damage.

So the question is, what are the landlords responsibilities in resolving the situation?

djimi

None as far as I know, unless you can prove somehow that the landlord was in some way negligent (which is very doubtful given the situation with the weather etc). Call Threshold and see what they reckon, but I suspect this falls into the "act of God" category.

Thargor

This is as Act of God as it gets OP.

murphaph

Was the landlord up on the roof loosening a few screws so the guttering fell on your car (during the storm)? If not, then you will have to take it on the chin like a good man, just as you would have had to do if you'd parked in under a tree and a branch fell on it. Sometimes there's nobody to take the blame!

Henry Ford III

Thargor wrote: »

This is as Act of God as it gets OP.

I wouldn't be so sure. See (ii) and (iv) below.

An act of God is an unforeseeable natural phenomenon. Explained by Lord Hobhouse in Transco plc v Stockport Metropolitan Borough Council as describing events;

(i) which involve no human agency
(ii) which is not realistically possible to guard against
(iii) which is due directly and exclusively to natural causes and
(iv) which could not have been prevented by any amount of
foresight plans, and care.

OP says the guttering was old so if it wasn't maintained properly (tricky to prove - look at the brackets and fixings) they may have a grounds to claim.

Dr_Colossus

So what's the point of house insurance when the insurance firm can bail and term any damage it causes to property held on the premises as an "act of god". What would have happened if the archaic guttering had fallen on someone and maimed or killed them, would public liability cover this and if so why not damage to tangible assets?

murphaph wrote: »

Was the landlord up on the roof loosening a few screws so the guttering fell on your car (during the storm)? If not, then you will have to take it on the chin like a good man, just as you would have had to do if you'd parked in under a tree and a branch fell on it. Sometimes there's nobody to take the blame!

My good and obviously smart man, one could also argue as to the maintenance upkeep and safety concerns of archaic guttering and ancient brackets and it's propensity to come crumbling down in high winds. Given the weight of it surely it requires periodic safety checks and at least occasional cleaning to reduce to weight burden?

whippet

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

So what's the point of house insurance when the insurance firm can bail and term any damage it causes to property held on the premises as an "act of god".

House insurance covers plenty of stuff .. maybe just not what you'd like it to retrospectively cover.

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

My good and obviously smart man, one could also argue as to the maintenance upkeep and safety concerns of archaic guttering and ancient brackets and it's propensity to come crumbling down in high winds. Given the weight of it surely it requires periodic safety checks and at least occasional cleaning to reduce to weight burden?

As someone who was living in the house and having visibility of the potential issue with the guttering etc .. did you notify the landlord of the potential problems and did you ensure to park your car far enough away from this potential hazard before it became a problem?

There were trees that have stood for hundreds of years blown over by that storm, there were 40ft lorries blown over ..... unexpected damage occurred during the storm and as such property got damaged.

The landlords insurance will probably cover the damage to his own home and the insurance on your car should cover your damage. That is what insurance is for.

TheDoc

No one's fault here. This is what your car insurance is for, although will probably kick up your premium.

Be careful on that one, especially if your under 26. Sometimes can be better to take the hit to the pocket then go through a claim.

I made a €300 claim on my car insurance last year. I was paying €700, and renewal time went up to 2500. No one could get lower then 2200.

Ended up paying the insurance company the €300 and wiping my claim record, reinstating my no claims and my renewal was €1000( still 300 more which is mental)

With the equalisations going on, insurance companies are balancing it out by hiking premiums at every opportunity. So think long and hard if making a €700 claim wont come back to triple your premium.

Mrs OBumble

This an issue between your car insurance and the landlord, or perhaps the landlord's insurance company.

Unless you choose to not claim, and fight it with the landlord yourself. Good luck with that.

TheDoc

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

This an issue between your car insurance and the landlord, or perhaps the landlord's insurance company.

Unless you choose to not claim, and fight it with the landlord yourself. Good luck with that.

I don't understand why.

Surely the only responsibility here, if any, is going to be the OP, going through his insurance company. If I'm driving by a house in a storm, and a gutter comes crashing into my car. I'm not stomping up to the house owner looking for their details.

It's unfortunately my problem.

I'd imagine the only way this is going elsewhere is if there is a full investigation done on the particle of the house that went airbourne, and to be fair that claim is never getting of the ground.

murphaph

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

My good and obviously smart man, one could also argue as to the maintenance upkeep and safety concerns of archaic guttering and ancient brackets and it's propensity to come crumbling down in high winds. Given the weight of it surely it requires periodic safety checks and at least occasional cleaning to reduce to weight burden?

Did you air your concerns about the stability of the guttering to the landlord? Did you have any such concerns? If not, why would the landlord have any? If so, why did you park your car under said guttering?

Dr_Colossus

murphaph wrote: »

Did you air your concerns about the stability of the guttering to the landlord? Did you have any such concerns? If not, why would the landlord have any? If so, why did you park your car under said guttering?

No and no. Because as his property it's his responsibility to ensure its upkeep and that it is a safe dwelling for its rent paying occupants and that should ensure periodic inspections and replacement of old and potentially dangerous fixtures. As an occupant I'm not expected to mount two storey building to check on fixtures and fittings, I pay enough rent to not have to have such worries. Overall I'm surprised cast iron guttering is still in existence as would have expected most of it to be replaced decades ago. To answer your last question I parked in the only driveway which so happens be be tight up to the front of the house, the alternative would be to park on the busy street which has a Dublin bus spot one door up so not ideal parking on the footpath..

In relation to advice given above that this issue is with my own car insurance, well that's not an option as I don't have comprehensive insurance or windscreen cover. Anyway even if I did it would adversely affect my renewal premium for an act I had no part in.

murphaph

The guttering came down due to the extreme weather. I had a wall blow over onto a motorcycle I owned during similar extreme weather. My insurance paid for the wall, which had stood for 25 years without incident, but I was SOL for the bike, just like you're SOL with your car. It's not pleasant, but there's nobody at fault.

If you want your LL to test every possible thing that could go wrong with your rented property then you'd better be prepared to pay an extraordinary level of rent to cover the landlord's costs.

Mrs OBumble

TheDoc wrote: »

Surely the only responsibility here, if any, is going to be the OP, going through his insurance company. If I'm driving by a house in a storm, and a gutter comes crashing into my car. I'm not stomping up to the house owner looking for their details.

You may not - but your insurance company will quite likely go looking for the owner who caused the problem.

No different really to if another car crashes into yours and the other driver was at fault. Your insurance will definitely pursue the other driver, or their insurance.

oldyouth

Firstly, Acts of God can be insured against and storms are one of the examples. Slightly off topic but house insurance policies exclude damage to own vehicles, so if it had been the landlord's car that was damaged, he couldn't claim on his own house insurance

However, the OP is not the insured person under the landlord's policy, so he must look to the Public Liability aspect if he is to get any compensation.

If the guttering was in a serviceable condition and the landlord was not aware of any maintenance issues that needed attention, then the OP has no redress other than claiming under his own motor policy.

If there were maintenance issues, then the OP could very well succeed in taking an action against the landlord

TheDoc

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

You may not - but your insurance company will quite likely go looking for the owner who caused the problem.

No different really to if another car crashes into yours and the other driver was at fault. Your insurance will definitely pursue the other driver, or their insurance.[/QUOTE]

There is a pretty big difference. There is acknowledgement of liability and admitting cause in a crash. Either party takes claim for the incident, and that draws down who was at fault. If that's in dispute, that's what the Guards get called for (totally lost in this country)

In this instance, there is no one that can accept liability.

I think there is a certain case of cop on required here as well. If someone knocked on my door saying something flew of my house during a storm, damaged their car, and was looking for some liability on my part, they would get a swift **** off and door closed in the face.

To be fair the OP should go get some actual legal counsel rather then seeking opinions on boards. My thoughts would be he needs to go through his motor insurance, as making a claim against a landlord for material coming loose during a storm, would never get of the ground.

For a minimum he would need to organise a number of specialists to survey the property to draw a timeline and investigate if the material that came loose was properly housed and maintained in the first place. 1) That's outrageously expensive to do 2) Probably inconclusive...after a storm...