Bought from NI, not vrt'd, now wants to sell.

debabyjesus

Long story short, a friend bought a used car from NI with intentions of registering and vrt it here, change of circumstance occurred and now he wants to sell it. He has the NI V5C but he's not sure where he stands on selling it. He bought it off a dealer and the V5C still has the original owners name on it. There is however a section where the original owner has signed it over to the dealer. One section of the form is missing, either 8,9 or 10 I can't remember.

The section for export has not been filled out at all. Its quite a confusing form and maybe some of you know the in's and out's of the V5C.

Basically he'd like to know where he stands on selling it, either to someone in the south who will register it here or back into NI altogether. It's still on NI plates of course but has it been exported from NI, its not very clear on the form. The dealer won't be taking it back so thats not an option.

I presume he can just stick it on DD and sell to anyone who wants it, north or south?

Any info/opinion appreciated.

Sobanek

It's illegal to sell a foreign reg car in the South as far as I know...

colm_mcm

There is a certain time from when you bring the car in whereafter you have to either register it or export it.

debabyjesus

The car has been in the country about 4 months, personal circumstances have delayed dealing with it until now.

So a ROI resident can't legally sell an NI reg to a ROI resident in the south, I presume he can sell it to an NI resident from the south? I know its a bit of a kerfuffle but again any advice is welcome.

ION08

Advice? Its not rocket science, Just stick it on DoneDeal.

Give v5 to new owner and let them vrt it. Simple

debabyjesus

ION08 wrote: »

Advice? Its not rocket science, Just stick it on DoneDeal.

Give v5 to new owner and let them vrt it. Simple

Grand so, thanks for that.

PauloMN

Note that your friend might not get the same interest in the car if it's not VRT'd, effectively he'd be cutting a chunk of people out of his potential market, because a used car not VRT'd just reeks of chancer to a lot of people.

My own advice would be for your friend to VRT the car and then put it up for sale.

Note that if your friend doesn't VRT the car and someone does buy it, they'll need proof of when the car was imported here in addition to the V5. The NCT centre will look for a sales receipt, invoice or some other proof of the import date. This could get tricky as those items (if your friend still has them) will be in your friends name, rather than the new owner. Also, the new owner will be liable for the VRT as of when he buys the car, but also the 4 month period the car was in Ireland.

corktina

PauloMN wrote: »

Note that your friend might not get the same interest in the car if it's not VRT'd, effectively he'd be cutting a chunk of people out of his potential market, because a used car not VRT'd just reeks of chancer to a lot of people.

My own advice would be for your friend to VRT the car and then put it up for sale.

Note that if your friend doesn't VRT the car and someone does buy it, they'll need proof of when the car was imported here in addition to the V5. The NCT centre will look for a sales receipt, invoice or some other proof of the import date. This could get tricky as those items (if your friend still has them) will be in your friends name, rather than the new owner. Also, the new owner will be liable for the VRT as of when he buys the car, but also the 4 month period the car was in Ireland.

don't go jumping at the advice that suits you, the advice quoted here is sound.Selling it as it is is not wise although he may get away with it

ION08

PauloMN wrote: »

Note that your friend might not get the same interest in the car if it's not VRT'd, effectively he'd be cutting a chunk of people out of his potential market, because a used car not VRT'd just reeks of chancer to a lot of people.

My own advice would be for your friend to VRT the car and then put it up for sale.

Note that if your friend doesn't VRT the car and someone does buy it, they'll need proof of when the car was imported here in addition to the V5. The NCT centre will look for a sales receipt, invoice or some other proof of the import date. This could get tricky as those items (if your friend still has them) will be in your friends name, rather than the new owner. Also, the new owner will be liable for the VRT as of when he buys the car, but also the 4 month period the car was in Ireland.

corktina wrote: »

don't go jumping at the advice that suits you, the advice quoted here is sound.Selling it as it is is not wise although he may get away with it

To be fair, I think a freshly VRT'd 08-D-129658745 plated car reeks just as much of "chancer" as selling it on UK plates does.

If a car really caught my eye, I would muuuuch rather buy it on a UK plate and VRT it myself, be the first Irish owner, and register it in the county of my choice, as opposed to buying one that has been freshly VRT'd by someone else.

As regards to the NCT Centre looking for a "sales receipt" I personally imported my own car from the UK, bought it over there privately so no receipt. When I went to VRT it the nice lady threw me an A$ paper and a pen and told me to "re-create" a "sales receipt" .... I, John Doe, purchased the following car on the following date for the following amount of money - DONE!!! :rolleyes:

At the end of the day its a €5'er to throw it up on DoneDeal, so give that a shot first before you go running around to VRT centres. Reasonable logic, no?

PauloMN

ION08 wrote: »

To be fair, I think a freshly VRT'd 08-D-129658745 plated car reeks just as much of "chancer" as selling it on UK plates does.

Matter of opinion really. Cars for sale here are supposed to be VRT'd, regardless of who is selling them. I'm sure a lot of people would be put off by having to VRT a car which was imported by someone else.

ION08 wrote: »

If a car really caught my eye, I would muuuuch rather buy it on a UK plate and VRT it myself, be the first Irish owner, and register it in the county of my choice, as opposed to buying one that has been freshly VRT'd by someone else.

I would too, so long as the car was still in the UK i.e. I was the one importing it! But in the OP's situation, a private buyer would probably just buy a car themselves up north/in the UK, rather than having to VRT a car imported by someone else.

ION08 wrote: »

As regards to the NCT Centre looking for a "sales receipt" I personally imported my own car from the UK, bought it over there privately so no receipt. When I went to VRT it the nice lady threw me an A$ paper and a pen and told me to "re-create" a "sales receipt" .... I, John Doe, purchased the following car on the following date for the following amount of money - DONE!!! :rolleyes:

You situation was different, and I suppose that would have been evident to the NCT centre from your V5. Yours was a private sale, so no official receipt available, and you were the person who imported it. The OP's was a dealer sale, exported from the UK 4 months ago, and the buyer would not be the person who imported it. It could get messy is all I am saying, and it would certainly put some buyers off.

ION08 wrote: »

At the end of the day its a €5'er to throw it up on DoneDeal, so give that a shot first before you go running around to VRT centres. Reasonable logic, no?

That's up to the OP I guess, but like you've given your advice, I'm giving mine that (technically) what the OP proposes doing is not allowed.

Marcusm

Sobanek wrote: »

It's illegal to sell a foreign reg car in the South as far as I know...

debabyjesus wrote: »

The car has been in the country about 4 months, personal circumstances have delayed dealing with it until now.

So a ROI resident can't legally sell an NI reg to a ROI resident in the south, I presume he can sell it to an NI resident from the south? I know its a bit of a kerfuffle but again any advice is welcome.

There is no illegality involved int he act of selling a foreign registered car in Ireland. It is unlawful for an Irish resident car to drive a foreign registered car on Irish roads (with minor exceptions irrelevant to this case) and it is unlwful not to register a newly imported car within a particular time period (7 days to make appt, 30 days to complete process) but the act of selling is not unlawful.

I find it hard to see how easy it wil be, however, to sell the car as the vendor is not the registered owner and, while a check can be undertaken, any purchaser will be wary. Equally, any purchaser will have to absorb the penalties, fines etc for late registration of the car post importation.

Selling it into NI will be no easier given that a letter will have been sent to DVLA (NI) noting it's export and it may (effectively) need to undergo an importation and reregistration process - the continued existence of the old NI plates will not be definitive.

slimjimmc

But isn't it illegal to deliver (give possession) it to anyone other than an "Authorised Person" i.e. specifically authorised by Revenue, whether that involves an exchange of money or otherwise. It's also illegal to be in possession or in charge even if it's kept off the road.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1992/en/act/pub/0009/sec0139.html

(3) It shall be an offence under this subsection for a person, in respect of a vehicle in the State—
(a) to be in possession of the vehicle if it is unregistered unless he is an authorised person or the vehicle is the subject of an exemption under section 135 for the time being in force and the vehicle is being used in accordance with any conditions, restrictions or limitations referred to in section 135 ,
(b) if the vehicle is the subject of an exemption under section 134 , to be in possession of the vehicle other than in accordance with any conditions, restrictions or limitations referred to in section 134 ,
(c) to issue or to be in possession of a document which purports to be, but is not, a certificate,
(d) to fail to pay any vehicle registration tax due by him,
(e) if the vehicle is an unregistered vehicle or a converted vehicle, to fail to account for it in accordance with section 137 , or
(f) if the vehicle is an unregistered vehicle or a converted vehicle in relation to which particulars of the conversion have not been declared in accordance with section 131 or a converted vehicle in relation to which particulars of the conversion have been so declared but vehicle registration tax has not been paid on the declaration, to deliver the vehicle to a person other than an authorised person.

OP, any chance your friend can get it back across the border and sell it to dealer in NI, obviously any dealer will be looking for a large discount but I think anyone looking at that car will know your friend is between a rock and a hard place so he should expect to lose his shirt on any transaction, unless it's something really exclusive.

Marcusm

slimjimmc wrote: »

But isn't it illegal to deliver (give possession) it to anyone other than an "Authorised Person" i.e. specifically authorised by Revenue, whether that involves an exchange of money or otherwise. It's also illegal to be in possession or in charge even if it's kept off the road.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1992/en/act/pub/0009/sec0139.html


OP, any chance your friend can get it back across the border and sell it to dealer in NI, obviously any dealer will be looking for a large discount but I think anyone looking at that car will know your friend is between a rock and a hard place so he should expect to lose his shirt on any transaction, unless it's something really exclusive.

Section 139 has been updated many times since first introduced; the current operative text is outlined below. I do not believe that there is a delivery related offence. The offence is a possessory one and is qualified by section 131 excluding vehicles whose details have been provided to Revenue. I cannot imagine anyone buying this car who did not make an immediate notification of same to Revenue which whitewashes the possession for them.

In the circumstances, I'd want a very heavy discount irrespective of which side of the border I was buying the car.