Landlord won't go away!

allandanyways · 16-02-2014 12:49pm #1

Hi all,

I know there's a similar thread up already, but mine is slightly different so please bear with me!

I'm living in rented accommodation, and my lease is up in July. I live with 5 other tenants and it has been fine for the last 7 months - we had good banter and cosy nights in etc and nobody was in anybody's space too much.

One of the tenants is actually my best mate, and the rest of them tend to come and go and are from the country so go home most weekends so it was mostly myself and himself just chilling at the weekends. The house is also 20 minutes from my work and a comfortable enough distance from my parents in Kildare! Essentially, aside from 1 messy housemate and a dodgy double glazing job in the sitting room, it was ideal.

Then, in January, the landlord moved back from Germany as she lost her job and has taken residency back up in her attic room (she lived in the house previously before I had moved in).

In all fairness to her, she's pretty sound. Lifted the non-smoking ban in the lounge as she's a smoker and all but 1 of us in the house smoke, has done a fair bit of maintenance work as she's at home on her own all day but she is literally ALWAYS there. She is always, and I mean ALWAYS (until 2 or 3am in the morning) in the sitting room and the kitchen. She never goes to her own room.

Since she came back in the middle of January, there has not been one single evening that she hasn't been sat in the sitting room, knitting and talking over the television. It's really starting to grate on all of us now, because as tenants, we're entitled to be able to sit in the sitting room and actually watch the television but she insists on talking over it to the point where I'm saving up to buy a smart TV for my room just so I can watch telly in peace. It's also really annoying because we're all paying for Sky Digital but unless you get up at 6am before she does, you can't actually watch the bloody tv without her stupid running commentary.

We all work long hours (except her) and the idea of just chilling in front of the TV when we come in from work is a saving grace. I know this sounds so petty but myself and my friend are really into our TV shows, and say on Wednesday, that new series Fleming was starting. We even warned her beforehand that we were really into this (I fancy the a*rse off Dominic Cooper, and my friend loves Ian Fleming) and we didn't want to chat while it was on. We got about 7 minutes of silence and then she starts a running commentary!

I know it's her house, and she's relatively sound in most other aspects, but it's really starting to feel like it's not our space anymore, and that we're living in her house rather than ours. I'm paying a fortune in rent and I'm just wondering if this is a common situation for people with live-in landlords or is there a way that we can tell her that we'd really like to have an evening to ourselves in the lounge?

I do apologise if I'm coming off as a d1ckhead here, it's just the change in dynamic and it's not that we don't like her, but it'd just be lovely to be able to watch a film in the sitting room that we are paying to use on our own! Also, I'm aware the obvious solution is to move out, but it's not a viable option at the moment financially.

Cheers!

snubbleste · 16-02-2014 12:52pm

eh, move out.

Bateman · 16-02-2014 12:54pm

Not just a simple case of having a chat?

ABajaninCork · 16-02-2014 1:03pm

Perhaps the landlady is lonely and looks forward to having company when you get home?

Anyway. Her house. Her rules. If you don't like the set up? Leave!,

GarIT · 16-02-2014 1:08pm

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Perhaps the landlady is lonely and looks forward to having company when you get home?

Anyway. Her house. Her rules. If you don't like the set up? Leave!,

They are paying rent, it's just as much their house as it is hers.

OP do you have a lease? Does it say you are renting a room or the house? If the group of you are renting the house she has no right to be there.

A simple solutions would be to tell her you can't hear the TV or turn it up everytime she talks?

The_Conductor · 16-02-2014 1:09pm

Unfortunately- if you're not happy- as she is an owner occupier- your only option is to leave.

allandanyways · 16-02-2014 1:29pm

snubbleste wrote: »

eh, move out.

I addressed this in my original post. I'm not in a financial position to move out at the moment (no car and don't have enough money for a deposit plus first month's rent)

Bateman wrote: »

Not just a simple case of having a chat?

Have tried dropping hints but she doesn't seem to be picking them up, or is choosing to ignore them.

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Perhaps the landlady is lonely and looks forward to having company when you get home?

Anyway. Her house. Her rules. If you don't like the set up? Leave!,

We had moved in before she moved back in. It's our house as much as it is hers, given I've paid rent for the last 7 months. She has no respect for the dynamic in the house and apparently, for her tenants.

GarIT wrote: »

They are paying rent, it's just as much their house as it is hers.

OP do you have a lease? Does it say you are renting a room or the house? If the group of you are renting the house she has no right to be there.

A simple solutions would be to tell her you can't hear the TV or turn it up everytime she talks?

Thank you. Yes, my lease states in legalese that I am renting room number 4 and also renting the use of the facilities of the house including lounge, kitchen and garden. That's the point I'm trying to make - I'm essentially renting the lounge and can't make use of it! God forbid I had a boyfriend and wanted to watch a DVD or something, cos I guarantee she still wouldn't move.

The_Conductor wrote: »

Unfortunately- if you're not happy- as she is an owner occupier- your only option is to leave.

The advice I'm seeking is that as an owner, who has not lived in the house for 18 months, she has come back in and does not seem to respect that fact that we have a dynamic and a nice little set up that involves watching movies and tv in peace and giving each other space. Surely, if she wants to keep her tenants, she would do her best to make it a nice place to live?

Appreciate the replies folks, thanks. Any further advice welcome.

djimi · 16-02-2014 1:51pm

allandanyways wrote: »

We had moved in before she moved back in. It's our house as much as it is hers, given I've paid rent for the last 7 months. She has no respect for the dynamic in the house and apparently, for her tenants.

No its not. She is an owner occupier; you are a licensee. Basically you have as many rights in the house as a guest would have.

allandanyways wrote: »

The advice I'm seeking is that as an owner, who has not lived in the house for 18 months, she has come back in and does not seem to respect that fact that we have a dynamic and a nice little set up that involves watching movies and tv in peace and giving each other space. Surely, if she wants to keep her tenants, she would do her best to make it a nice place to live?

Its her call, but unfortunately in this situation your options are to live in the property under her rules, or find somewhere else to live. Obviously you all sitting down with her and talking about it is the best solution, but its up to her how she wants to play it.

Lifted the non-smoking ban in the lounge as she's a smoker and all but 1 of us in the house smoke

I pity the poor sod who doesnt smoke...

The_Conductor · 16-02-2014 2:03pm

djimi wrote: »

I pity the poor sod who doesnt smoke...

+ 1 million to this.
I don't understand how a non-smoker could possibly live in these circumstances.

whiteandlight · 16-02-2014 2:10pm

You need to establish whether your leases constitute rental of the full house or not. When the owner occupier was not there did someone organise paying the rent or how was it paid?

If it turns out that you are all renting the house as a group with a proper lease then she has no right to be there

If you all have owner occupier agreements then there is absolutely nothing you can do so you will need to move out if this is bothering you

Sikpupi · 16-02-2014 2:15pm

Had a similar problem many years ago - sharing with couple + one other and we spilt bills down by 3 (Girl in Couple paying nothing as technically she not on lease but stayed 4++ nights a week)

They hogged the Kitchen (cooked for themselves and left everything dirty behind them in kitchen and then ate watching TV and hogged that for the night. Especially all the soaps)

One day I put note on TV in morning that I be home at 7pm and that I wanted to watch a Live Match - so all be warned. Came home and they locked into a soap and at 7pm - I ask to change.

Both jumped on me and told me that they 'always' watch the soaps and that they not switching.

So - I waited till other tenant came in and advised that I was withdrawing from paying from the TV rental and TV Licence and the Horizon channel payment. Other tenant said he also withdrawing.

Bought my own TV / DVD combo and rabbit ears and installed same in room and was happy out thereafter. Monies saved went to pints in local pub on match nights. Never a problem thereafter

allandanyways · 16-02-2014 2:15pm

djimi wrote: »

No its not. She is an owner occupier; you are a licensee. Basically you have as many rights in the house as a guest would have.

I hardly think that's true/fair. A guest isn't paying rent/bills. I am. I am paying for use of the house as I specified in my previous post. My lease refers to rental of the room and the communal facilities of the house.

djimi wrote: »

Its her call, but unfortunately in this situation your options are to live in the property under her rules, or find somewhere else to live. Obviously you all sitting down with her and talking about it is the best solution, but its up to her how she wants to play it.

I can appreciate that, thank you. I do think that as a landlord, she would want to keep her tenants who are paying what is really a higher than average rent for the area. One tenant moved out the month after I moved in and it took us 3 months to get someone else to rent the room. It's a hard house to rent so if she wants to keep us and save herself the effort of trying to get new tenants, she would try to keep the house as peaceful and comfortable as possible.

djimi wrote: »

I pity the poor sod who doesnt smoke...

We only smoke in the lounge, and the non smoker basically uses the house to sleep in. They spend most of their time at college/gym/boyfriends. It's always been the way they are and we asked their permission before we started smoking in the lounge and they said that they're never there so it doesn't bother them. I don't want to turn this into a smoker-bashing thread so that's all I'll say on the matter.

djimi · 16-02-2014 2:16pm

Musicmental85 wrote: »

You need to establish whether your leases constitute rental of the full house or not. When the owner occupier was not there did someone organise paying the rent or how was it paid?

If it turns out that you are all renting the house as a group with a proper lease then she has no right to be there

If you all have owner occupier agreements then there is absolutely nothing you can do so you will need to move out if this is bothering you

The OP has stated

Yes, my lease states in legalese that I am renting room number 4 and also renting the use of the facilities of the house including lounge, kitchen and garden.

so it appears that they are renting a room, not the entire property.

They also specify that they are have been granted use of the lounge, kitchen etc, not "exclusive use of", so they really have no arguement here.

The_Conductor · 16-02-2014 2:17pm

It doesn't necessarily have to be an 'owner-occupier' agreement- if the property is let by bedrooms- which isn't uncommon- and one bedroom (the attic in this instance) remained the owners- regardless of whether it was used or not, the owner could return at will to the property.

If the group are renting the property in its entirety, as a group- with a single lease governing the letting- its a different story.

Really depends on how the property was let.

I inferred the owner had kept her own room- from the OP's comments- regarding how she had lived there previously before the OP moved in, but had kept her room, and had now moved back as she had lost her job in Germany (or whereever).

Teyla Emmagan · 16-02-2014 2:20pm

You will have to be way more direct with the 'hints'. As in straight out say 'is it okay if we don't talk when this show is on Deirdre'. Or put up with it and hope she gets a life.

Relaxing the non smoking ban so that she can smoke in the lounge doesn't sound too cool to me I must say! And I'm a smoker. Perhaps if you reinstated it she'd spend less time in there.

Failing that you will be using your TV money as a deposit somewhere else!

djimi · 16-02-2014 2:20pm

allandanyways wrote: »

I hardly think that's true/fair. A guest isn't paying rent/bills. I am. I am paying for use of the house as I specified in my previous post. My lease refers to rental of the room and the communal facilities of the house.

It might not be fair but its the law. Paying bills does not give you any more rights to the property; you are not covered by the terms of the Residential Tenancies Act and as such have virtually no rights to the property.

allandanyways wrote: »

I can appreciate that, thank you. I do think that as a landlord, she would want to keep her tenants who are paying what is really a higher than average rent for the area. One tenant moved out the month after I moved in and it took us 3 months to get someone else to rent the room. It's a hard house to rent so if she wants to keep us and save herself the effort of trying to get new tenants, she would try to keep the house as peaceful and comfortable as possible.

In that case you all need to sit her down and discuss this with her. Its not going to be an easy conversation, you are effectively telling her that she is not allowed to use her own house as she wishes to, but if thats how you feel then its a conversation that needs to be had.[/QUOTE]

allandanyways wrote: »

We only smoke in the lounge, and the non smoker basically uses the house to sleep in. They spend most of their time at college/gym/boyfriends. It's always been the way they are and we asked their permission before we started smoking in the lounge and they said that they're never there so it doesn't bother them. I don't want to turn this into a smoker-bashing thread so that's all I'll say on the matter.

Fair enough. As a non-smoker who has been in that situation I think its absolutely disgusting for five people to be smoking in a sitting room under any circumstances, but each to their own and if the non-smoker is not kicking up a fuss then more power to you!

allandanyways · 16-02-2014 2:26pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

+ 1 million to this.
I don't understand how a non-smoker could possibly live in these circumstances.

As I mentioned in last post, the non-smoker is never there and has given her permission. She doesn't use the lounge much so she doesn't care. Again, I don't want to turn this into a smoking vs non smoking thread, so if we can leave it at that please.

Musicmental85 wrote: »

You need to establish whether your leases constitute rental of the full house or not. When the owner occupier was not there did someone organise paying the rent or how was it paid?

If it turns out that you are all renting the house as a group with a proper lease then she has no right to be there

If you all have owner occupier agreements then there is absolutely nothing you can do so you will need to move out if this is bothering you

The lease states that we rent rooms plus the communal areas inc lounge, kitchen and garden. We pay rent directly into the landlord (her partner's) account. There's no owner-occupier clause in the lease, and nothing that refers to that. It states that tenants who pay rent are entitled to use the communal facilities of the house as they please. She owns the house, but doesn't pay rent so it's a bit of an awkward one.

Sikpupi wrote: »

Had a similar problem many years ago - sharing with couple + one other and we spilt bills down by 3 (Girl in Couple paying nothing as technically she not on lease but stayed 4++ nights a week)

They hogged the Kitchen (cooked for themselves and left everything dirty behind them in kitchen and then ate watching TV and hogged that for the night. Especially all the soaps)

One day I put note on TV in morning that I be home at 7pm and that I wanted to watch a Live Match - so all be warned. Came home and they locked into a soap and at 7pm - I ask to change.

Both jumped on me and told me that they 'always' watch the soaps and that they not switching.

So - I waited till other tenant came in and advised that I was withdrawing from paying from the TV rental and TV Licence and the Horizon channel payment. Other tenant said he also withdrawing.

Bought my own TV / DVD combo and rabbit ears and installed same in room and was happy out thereafter. Monies saved went to pints in local pub on match nights. Never a problem thereafter

She doesn't take control of the TV, but the issue is that she is always in the communal areas. As I stated before, if I want to have friends over, I just don't now, because she never leaves the sitting room and involves herself in every damn conversation even when we're talking about stuff that has nothing to do with her/happened years ago. It's not a communal area as such any more, it's us using her living room when it suits her. We used to have great dinner parties and house parties (with all tenants' prior ok obviously) but we can't do that now because she won't let us have any area of the house other than our rooms to ourselves.

I understand how petty this is coming across, but I am just wondering if there is a way of saying to her that we'd like a bit of space to ourselves in the communal areas, or if it's a case that it's her house, so she can do what she wants despite pissing off her tenants to the point where 4 of the 6 of us are considering moving out.

djimi · 16-02-2014 2:34pm

allandanyways wrote: »

The lease states that we rent rooms plus the communal areas inc lounge, kitchen and garden. We pay rent directly into the landlord (her partner's) account. There's no owner-occupier clause in the lease, and nothing that refers to that. It states that tenants who pay rent are entitled to use the communal facilities of the house as they please. She owns the house, but doesn't pay rent so it's a bit of an awkward one.

The point is that you rent a room, not exclusive use of the entire property, and the lease states that you have use of the communal areas, which is not being denied to you. Realistially your issue with the landlord is no different to if any of your current housemates spent all day in the sitting room hogging the TV. Even if the landlord was just another tenant, she is not doing anything wrong by the terms of your lease, and it would be up to you all to sit down with her and sort it out. The fact that she is an owner occupier just makes that conversation a bit harder, as she has the legal power to say to you to either get on with it or find somewhere else to live.

allandanyways · 16-02-2014 2:35pm

djimi wrote: »

The OP has stated

so it appears that they are renting a room, not the entire property.

They also specify that they are have been granted use of the lounge, kitchen etc, not "exclusive use of", so they really have no arguement here.

Yes, we all rent the rooms individually. Apologies for not being clearer on that.

The_Conductor wrote: »

It doesn't necessarily have to be an 'owner-occupier' agreement- if the property is let by bedrooms- which isn't uncommon- and one bedroom (the attic in this instance) remained the owners- regardless of whether it was used or not, the owner could return at will to the property.

If the group are renting the property in its entirety, as a group- with a single lease governing the letting- its a different story.

Really depends on how the property was let.

I inferred the owner had kept her own room- from the OP's comments- regarding how she had lived there previously before the OP moved in, but had kept her room, and had now moved back as she had lost her job in Germany (or whereever).

As per above, we rent the rooms individually but have a great group dynamic - chores are all done fairly and individually and paying of bills is never a problem. We're all mates and it was grand beforehand. You could just leave a note on the fridge saying "XXX is coming over this evening and we would like to get a takeaway and watch a film in lounge if that is ok with everyone" and then you'd get texts from everyone saying if it was cool or if they were also having company and we would make arrangements as such. We didn't even have to allude to the fact that we wouldn't want company, as everyone had common sense to know what that meant. Landlord does not understand this.

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

You will have to be way more direct with the 'hints'. As in straight out say 'is it okay if we don't talk when this show is on Deirdre'. Or put up with it and hope she gets a life.

Relaxing the non smoking ban so that she can smoke in the lounge doesn't sound too cool to me I must say! And I'm a smoker. Perhaps if you reinstated it she'd spend less time in there.

Failing that you will be using your TV money as a deposit somewhere else!

It's looking like this might be my option. I'm half thinking of asking for a reduction on my rent because I can't actually use the facilities of the lounge because she insists on talking over the TV and won't let us relax in peace.

allandanyways · 16-02-2014 2:36pm

djimi wrote: »

The point is that you rent a room, not exclusive use of the entire property, and the lease states that you have use of the communal areas, which is not being denied to you. Realistially your issue with the landlord is no different to if any of your current housemates spent all day in the sitting room hogging the TV. Even if the landlord was just another tenant, she is not doing anything wrong by the terms of your lease, and it would be up to you all to sit down with her and sort it out. The fact that she is an owner occupier just makes that conversation a bit harder, as she has the legal power to say to you to either get on with it or find somewhere else to live.

That's fair enough. That's the area I was unclear on and the reason I started this thread. I appreciate the input, and that does make sense. Cheers, man!

Mongfinder General · 16-02-2014 3:11pm

To be honest it sounds like the landlord is making life difficult for you all. I think it's a case of the landlord wanting you all out.

foggy_lad · 16-02-2014 3:15pm

Op it seems like ye are not actual tenants with tenants rights but licensees who have no real rights and can be put out on the street with 24hours notice.

If ye want to have a chat with the owner then I would wait till ye have found possible alternative accommodation because ye can then use that as leverage but I would not expect the owners behaviour to change, sounds like she may be having some type of breakdown.

VeeEmmy · 16-02-2014 3:45pm

From my perspective, your complaints are not petty at all. Was there any indication or past behaviour of which you were aware at the time your tenancy began that there was a possibility or likelihood that the landlord might occupy the attic room? Is it stated in your lease? If not, I'd think it was reasonable on your part never to have thought this situation would arise. I'm assuming it was not expressly provided for in your lease. What about your other housemates' leases?

There is a paragraph in the relevant statute(s) that says, "2. The tenant of a house is, unless otherwise expressly provided for in a lease, entitled to quiet and peaceable enjoyment of the house without the interruption of the landlord or any other person during the term of the tenancy for so long as the tenant pays the rent and observes the terms of the tenancy." (HOUSING (RENT BOOKS) REGULATIONS, 1993. (S.I. No. 146/1993)

There could be amendments to that Statute of which I am unaware, but I think that paragraph is still a central part of the Statutes covering Landlord/Tenant rights and responsibilities.

Who pays for services, i.e., electric, waste collection, gas, TV cable/satellite, etc.? Just wondering. You could do as mentioned above somewhere and terminate the TV feed, etc. unless she shares in the payment for the stuff.

You might contact Threshold to get their thoughts on your situation: http://www.threshold.ie. But it sure sounds to me that your quiet and peaceable enjoyment of the house has been significantly interrupted.

deirdremf · 16-02-2014 3:52pm

allandanyways wrote: »

Thank you. Yes, my lease states in legalese that I am renting room number 4 and also renting the use of the facilities of the house including lounge, kitchen and garden. That's the point I'm trying to make - I'm essentially renting the lounge and can't make use of it! God forbid I had a boyfriend and wanted to watch a DVD or something, cos I guarantee she still wouldn't move.

Looks like a bedsit arrangement, and as such is likely to be illegal.
Get proper legal advice on this point is my suggestion.

Grandpa Hassan · 16-02-2014 4:55pm

deirdremf wrote: »

Looks like a bedsit arrangement, and as such is likely to be illegal.
Get proper legal advice on this point is my suggestion.

How do you come to that conclusion? Sounds like the owner is renting her spare rooms, just like I do in London. The agreement that my housemates have signed with me (it's misleading it call it a lease throughout this thread) includes the use of all communal areas, and sole use of the room. They pay their rent to me. Exactly the same as in the OPs situation.

Banished-she: the clause you describe is not relevant. This is the rent of a room in the LLs house.....not a lease of the property. The legislation does not cover it is outside of PTRB remit

Mrs OBumble · 16-02-2014 7:23pm

OP, with that many people in the house, a 2nd living area would not be unreasonable. Any options for this?

TBH, you would never have guaranteed to have the living room to yourself before, all that's changed is that you have a new and annoying housemate. Risks of the game, I'm afraid.

Ken. · 16-02-2014 7:54pm

You could check out the price locally of renting a room in a house with a landlord living in it and if it's cheaper look for a reduction. You'd need to get the rest of your housemate's to go for it as well and be prepared to move if the landlord says no.

confusticated · 16-02-2014 9:10pm

If ye can't talk to her, is there any chance your current housemates and you could find a new place together? I know you said you can't afford it, but if you're currently paying over the odds in rent, it could be worth it over a couple of months.

Faith · 16-02-2014 9:32pm

I think you need to call a house meeting, with all tenants and the landlord, and all discuss the issues. Hints are no good, you all need to be direct in your expectations of your home environment. Statements like "I expect to be able to watch television in peace" or "I expect to be able to have friends to visit without being interrupted by others without invitation". Explain to your LL that her being in the house has changed the dynamic, explain how it's changed, how you'd like it to be and then all of you can see if you can come to a mutual agreement. She probably doesn't realise she's being a pest.

Asking for a rent reduction or something is complete overkill without discussing the issues at hand first, and it won't solve any of the issues.

Eutow · 16-02-2014 9:41pm

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Perhaps the landlady is lonely and looks forward to having company when you get home?

Anyway. Her house. Her rules. If you don't like the set up? Leave!,

And that is why I would not rent a place that has a live-in landlord. If I was you OP I would try and save enough money in order to move elsewhere.

DoozerT6 · 16-02-2014 9:45pm

Faith, if someone spoke to me like that in my own home I would tell them to sling their hook very, very fast. Tenants are easily replaceable now, and she would have no problem replacing all of them.

Diplomacy is the key. And tread carefully. TBH, she sounds like she could be depressed. You don't know how she may react to what you have to say.

fergie199 · 16-02-2014 11:07pm

allandanyways wrote: »

Hi all,

I know there's a similar thread up already, but mine is slightly different so please bear with me!

I'm living in rented accommodation, and my lease is up in July. I live with 5 other tenants and it has been fine for the last 7 months - we had good banter and cosy nights in etc and nobody was in anybody's space too much.

One of the tenants is actually my best mate, and the rest of them tend to come and go and are from the country so go home most weekends so it was mostly myself and himself just chilling at the weekends. The house is also 20 minutes from my work and a comfortable enough distance from my parents in Kildare! Essentially, aside from 1 messy housemate and a dodgy double glazing job in the sitting room, it was ideal.

Then, in January, the landlord moved back from Germany as she lost her job and has taken residency back up in her attic room (she lived in the house previously before I had moved in).

In all fairness to her, she's pretty sound. Lifted the non-smoking ban in the lounge as she's a smoker and all but 1 of us in the house smoke, has done a fair bit of maintenance work as she's at home on her own all day but she is literally ALWAYS there. She is always, and I mean ALWAYS (until 2 or 3am in the morning) in the sitting room and the kitchen. She never goes to her own room.

Since she came back in the middle of January, there has not been one single evening that she hasn't been sat in the sitting room, knitting and talking over the television. It's really starting to grate on all of us now, because as tenants, we're entitled to be able to sit in the sitting room and actually watch the television but she insists on talking over it to the point where I'm saving up to buy a smart TV for my room just so I can watch telly in peace. It's also really annoying because we're all paying for Sky Digital but unless you get up at 6am before she does, you can't actually watch the bloody tv without her stupid running commentary.

We all work long hours (except her) and the idea of just chilling in front of the TV when we come in from work is a saving grace. I know this sounds so petty but myself and my friend are really into our TV shows, and say on Wednesday, that new series Fleming was starting. We even warned her beforehand that we were really into this (I fancy the a*rse off Dominic Cooper, and my friend loves Ian Fleming) and we didn't want to chat while it was on. We got about 7 minutes of silence and then she starts a running commentary!

I know it's her house, and she's relatively sound in most other aspects, but it's really starting to feel like it's not our space anymore, and that we're living in her house rather than ours. I'm paying a fortune in rent and I'm just wondering if this is a common situation for people with live-in landlords or is there a way that we can tell her that we'd really like to have an evening to ourselves in the lounge?

I do apologise if I'm coming off as a d1ckhead here, it's just the change in dynamic and it's not that we don't like her, but it'd just be lovely to be able to watch a film in the sitting room that we are paying to use on our own! Also, I'm aware the obvious solution is to move out, but it's not a viable option at the moment financially.

Cheers!

Hi there.

Under law she has a legal right to be there as it is her home. She can set the rules and take up as much of the sitting room and tv as she wants lol

As a tenant though you are only paying as harsh as it sounds for a roof over your head and to be able to use the utilities and to have them and the property maintained.

I am on your side here don't get me wrong, I thinks its total rudeness that the land lord feels they can just come back an rule to roost regardless of the others that are there.

You only have 3 options which im sure you are aware of the main on already so I wont even bring it up.

Option 2. Would be to put up with it, use the utilities as normal Note; TV is not one of them; and if she gives you any trouble tell her that your paying rent and are entitled to use them. This option doesn't get ur issue resolved and is a more put up and shut up approach.

option 3. Tell her how you and the others feel. It is best not to do this in a confronting style. Best way to approach it is to say something like ''Hey me and the rest would like to discuss something with you at some stage, maybe tomorrow night''
This way it is not going to be a BIG SHOCK to her and both you are her are ready for the confrontation.

Explain to her you feelings regarding the situation and try to settle on a solution, she seems a sound enough girl but also seems to be settled in her ways and believes that its her house end of! so this convo could go either way lol

Finally if all else fails and she is totally un-compromising I would (personally) call into question if she has registered herself as a landlord and is paying tax through the rent that she gets for you and your friends, a simple mention of this to her should she not be a licensed landlord will surly put the ball in your court and if she doesn't want to be investigated for tax fraud she will give you ur share of the tv.

As always thanks for reading

Fergie

The_Morrigan · 16-02-2014 11:57pm

fergie199 wrote: »

Hi there.

Under law she has a legal right to be there as it is her home. She can set the rules and take up as much of the sitting room and tv as she wants lol

As a tenant though you are only paying as harsh as it sounds for a roof over your head and to be able to use the utilities and to have them and the property maintained.

I am on your side here don't get me wrong, I thinks its total rudeness that the land lord feels they can just come back an rule to roost regardless of the others that are there.

You only have 3 options which im sure you are aware of the main on already so I wont even bring it up.

Option 2. Would be to put up with it, use the utilities as normal Note; TV is not one of them; and if she gives you any trouble tell her that your paying rent and are entitled to use them. This option doesn't get ur issue resolved and is a more put up and shut up approach.

option 3. Tell her how you and the others feel. It is best not to do this in a confronting style. Best way to approach it is to say something like ''Hey me and the rest would like to discuss something with you at some stage, maybe tomorrow night''
This way it is not going to be a BIG SHOCK to her and both you are her are ready for the confrontation.

Explain to her you feelings regarding the situation and try to settle on a solution, she seems a sound enough girl but also seems to be settled in her ways and believes that its her house end of! so this convo could go either way lol

Finally if all else fails and she is totally un-compromising I would (personally) call into question if she has registered herself as a landlord and is paying tax through the rent that she gets for you and your friends, a simple mention of this to her should she not be a licensed landlord will surly put the ball in your court and if she doesn't want to be investigated for tax fraud she will give you ur share of the tv.

As always thanks for reading

Fergie

The bolded bit doesn't apply if it's an owner occupier/rent a room scheme. She only has to declare the income with revenue, she doesn't have to be registered as a landlord.

the_syco · 17-02-2014 12:05am

Check with your current housemates if they'd prefer living in a house without the landlady, and if so, check your locality for a house to rent (ensure it's a house this time, not per-room), and let the landlady know that since she came back home, no-one can relax in the house, and thus you'd like to move, without the loss of your deposit, and see what she says?

LynnGrace · 17-02-2014 12:05am

OP, you are not in the slightest bit petty. My house/flat sharing days are over, but I know exactly what you mean. It's a difficult situation. I hope that at the very least, she pays her share of the utility bills.
If, overall, you think she is sound enough, and I know you have said financially, it suits you to stay put, it might be worth suggesting some kind of house rules, making it seem as if it's not just directed at her, IYKWIM. From what you say, she won't take hints, so it needs to be sorted out a bit more plainly. However, the last thing you want is someone taking a huff, for example, and slamming and crashing around the place, and generally making life difficult.
Someone else suggested a second living/ common area, would that be an angle you could take? Otherwise, as you said, you did have a good setup previously, whereby you asked one another to work around when one person had guests etc, could you try to get this back up and running, and be explicit in saying 'can we agree xyz re guests, tv etc'.
If all else fails, maybe a few of you could get together and find another place, not ideal, I know, but, personally, the thought of not being able to relax, and have a bit of comfort, when you get home, would drive me mad!
Best of luck OP.

foggy_lad · 17-02-2014 12:09am

LynnGrace wrote: »

OP, you are not in the slightest bit petty. My house/flat sharing days are over, but I know exactly what you mean. It's a difficult situation. I hope that at the very least, she pays her share of the utility bills.
If, overall, you think she is sound enough, and I know you have said financially, it suits you to stay put, it might be worth suggesting some kind of house rules, making it seem as if it's not just directed at her, IYKWIM. From what you say, she won't take hints, so it needs to be sorted out a bit more plainly. However, the last thing you want is someone taking a huff, for example, and slamming and crashing around the place, and generally making life difficult.
Someone else suggested a second living/ common area, would that be an angle you could take? Otherwise, as you said, you did have a good setup previously, whereby you asked one another to work around when one person had guests etc, could you try to get this back up and running, and be explicit in saying 'can we agree xyz re guests, tv etc'.
If all else fails, maybe a few of you could get together and find another place, not ideal, I know, but, personally, the thought of not being able to relax, and have a bit of comfort, when you get home, would drive me mad!
Best of luck OP.

Also the op must consider that the owner could lock them all out and throw their stuff out on the street if they consider the op and others as licensees rather than tenants!

the_syco · 17-02-2014 8:41am

foggy_lad wrote: »

Also the op must consider that the owner could lock them all out and throw their stuff out on the street if they consider the op and others as licensees rather than tenants!

The OP would need to check with a solicitor on their tenancy type, imo. Can a tenancy transfer from rent-a-room to owner occupier mid-lease?

If the above is clarified, it'd swing both ways, and the OP could move out at a moments notice to a new place, and get her deposit back.

makeorbrake · 17-02-2014 9:58am

I'm going to run with the assumption right now this is a 'rent-a-room' scheme scenario until someone comes back and confirms otherwise.

On that basis, there seems to be nothing wrong whatsoever with what the owner/landlord has done!

You've confirmed that she's 'sound' and has not in any way denied access to anything in the house to you. You do say that she's 'there all the time'. On that, firstly any one of you is entitled to 'be there all the time' if you so choose. I accept that this may be frustrating - and it may have destroyed the cosy setup you had before - but it's the reality - you have to accept it. Especially so, if she's not working. Anyone who is not working is likely to spend much more time in their own home! Think about it.

I do see the frustration re. use of the living room and watching tv - but it is what it is. What would you have her do? Move out of her own home? Someone talking over what you're watching does sound frustrating but on the flip side, it sounds like she's not doing it in a spiteful way from what you describe - it's just a very annoying character idiosyncrasy.
You mention that previously on the weekend, you shared the house with your best friend. You can't expect things to be so cosy and for what is a new person in the house that you hadn't shared with before to be the very same (although I understand how this might be frustrating...but that's all it is at worst, frustration).

You've identified that the dynamic in the house has changed. Again, that is what it is - she's the owner - that's not her fault. You've also identified that you moving out (as she simply cant!) is the solution. Given that you can't achieve that, all thats left is a mixture of accepting your current set of circumstances and possibly discussing a few things.

One other option is that you suggest that you now subscribe to sky multiroom - given that she's home a lot - and you have different programming tastes.

Mrs OBumble · 17-02-2014 10:09am

Faith wrote: »

...you all need to be direct in your expectations of your home environment. Statements like "I expect to be able to watch television in peace" or "I expect to be able to have friends to visit without being interrupted by others without invitation".

There are seven people living in the house. It is totally unrealistic for aoyone to be able to expect to have exclusive use of the living room at any time.

In sucn an environment, the place where you can have freinds visit or watch TV uninterrupted uninterrupted is your room. Unless the house-owner is invading that, then the OP's only issue is that s/he doesn't like the way the house-share has changed, and it's an issue for PI not A&P.

allandanyways · 17-02-2014 12:29pm

Hi all,

Many thanks for your replies, they have all been of great assistance with the issue.

I've only lived with a partner or with family previously so I'm not entirely familiar with the entitlements/privileges of sharing with a landlord.

I was under the impression (perhaps falsely) that landlords who live in the house should respect the space of their tenants and at least spend a certain amount of time in their rooms to allow fair usage of the common areas of the house. I would not consider her 18 hour residences of the sitting room to be fair usage for all.

I think it's possibly a case of we had it great and now this is the reality.

Since starting this thread yesterday, I vented my frustrations with 2 of my housemates, and it has since emerged that she is not paying any bills, and more importantly, is stealing (albeit small) things from her tenants.

It started with the fact that she never, ever buys milk/butter etc and I noticed that the 2L milk I bought at the start of the week was gone by Wednesday with only 2 of us using it for tea since Sunday. I also left my cigarettes on the kitchen table and went up to have a shower and came back down and there were 3 missing and she was the only one downstairs. She's also robbed small things like washing powder, and has gone directly into people's individual presses and robbed pasta/rice/chicken etc. So not only is she making it uncomfortable to avail of the common areas of the house, she's also scabbing off all of us.

After some thought and consideration, and looking at the situation from the outside (thanks to all contributors on this thread), I really am going to have to look at moving out.

Nothing that she's doing is especially illegal, but it's not making for a pleasant living situation. I must have been living in a dream world, but if I were a landlord, I would want to keep my tenants, especially if they had been in the house before me and been no trouble. She moved back and has upset the whole house dynamic and isn't giving us any space at all.

Grolschevik · 17-02-2014 12:38pm

the_syco wrote: »

The OP would need to check with a solicitor on their tenancy type, imo. Can a tenancy transfer from rent-a-room to owner occupier mid-lease?

If the above is clarified, it'd swing both ways, and the OP could move out at a moments notice to a new place, and get her deposit back.

Yes. It looks weird.

The way the lease seems to have been originally worded is like a rent-a-room scheme with an owner occupier. Except the owner was resident in another country. Which is outside the terms of that scheme. So essentially, it was a house share.

Who collected and paid her taxes for her? The partner into whose account rent is paid?

And she has recently returned. Can a de facto house share situation morph overnight into an owner-occupier rent-out-rooms one?

In these circumstances, I really would doubt that the landlord has been fully complying with the rules for the rent-a-room scheme, or her tax liabilities.

None of this is relevant, of course, unless you want to report her.

However, she's unemployed now. Does she have the cash to return deposits if some tenants move out?

makeorbrake · 17-02-2014 12:38pm

allandanyways wrote: »

I was under the impression (perhaps falsely) that landlords who live in the house should respect the space of their tenants and at least spend a certain amount of time in their rooms to allow fair usage of the common areas of the house. I would not consider her 18 hour residences of the sitting room to be fair usage for all.

I don't think that should be an expectation of her or any other house occupant. If she's not working, then it stands to reason that she will be around more. That would be true whether it be home owner or lodger/tenant.

allandanyways wrote: »

I think it's possibly a case of we had it great and now this is the reality.

Yeah, seems that way.

allandanyways wrote: »

Since starting this thread yesterday, I vented my frustrations with 2 of my housemates, and it has since emerged that she is not paying any bills, and more importantly, is stealing (albeit small) things from her tenants.

It started with the fact that she never, ever buys milk/butter etc and I noticed that the 2L milk I bought at the start of the week was gone by Wednesday with only 2 of us using it for tea since Sunday. I also left my cigarettes on the kitchen table and went up to have a shower and came back down and there were 3 missing and she was the only one downstairs. She's also robbed small things like washing powder, and has gone directly into people's individual presses and robbed pasta/rice/chicken etc. So not only is she making it uncomfortable to avail of the common areas of the house, she's also scabbing off all of us.

Not paying bills and scabbing off everyone is a whole different ball game. I guess you could have a discussion about that. Personally, I don't think that should ever have to be a subject for discussion. Keep your belongings to yourself and bide your time. Make moving out your objective - and do so at the first opportunity ....although don't act impulsively. You don't want to end up with a similar set of circumstances once more. ;-)

Grandpa Hassan · 17-02-2014 12:38pm

Yup, I think you just need to move out of there. You don't have to give any notice, other than obviously staying there for the amount of time that you have already paid for, and an amount of time equal to the deposit if you think she is going to keep it.

It is no different than having those problems with another housemate. She has no more obligation to respect your space and allow you a fair time with the TV remote as any other housemate does. Except in this case, she isn't going to be the one leaving

Unfortunately you just get people who are d*cks. LLs and tenants both. Not all live-in LLs who rent a spare room behave like that. And you are just as likely to get a fellow tenant who does

The Spider · 17-02-2014 1:21pm

This always happens, take my advice and get a new place, I spent many years renting with strangers and not so strangers, sooner or later a situation like this arises. If the house isn't particularly large it really gets in your face.

Years ago had a similar situation was renting a room in a fantastic large redbrick on the coast in Dublin, with three others including the landlord, all the rooms were en-suite and all were wired for tv, and everyone had their own tv, so never any issues in that regard. We had a huge back garden and used to have marquee parties it was fantastic and the landlors was a really cool guy.

However landlord decided to move in with his missus, and we had to get someone else in, a friend recomended this guy to the landlord and he took over the landlords room.

Dynamic completely changed, the guy was a bit odd and hard to get on with, we tried bringing him out for pints etc, but eventually it was too much like hard work, in this guys case it wasn't the living room we could have lived with that as we all had our own tv's.

Nope he took over the kitchen, the kitchen was great huge and a big wooden table at the bottom of it, but this guy night after night sat in the kitchen reading his book at the table not speaking to anyone, it made it so that you didn't want to go into the kitchen after work as it was so awkward.

I remember one of my house mates stopping me in the hall and asking "Is he in the kitchen? I can't eat another bloody take away because I can't use the kitchen with him out there!"

Like I say not always the landlord, and it's weird the way these type of people will find the room that'll cause the most grief to use all the time, he could've read that book anywhere, but he chose the room everyone wanted to use after work, or have dinner with their missus etc.

I could go on about others over the years, but like I say the only solution is to find your own place.

louloumc89 · 17-02-2014 4:35pm

It's hard to find a good dynamic in a house share. I would say the landlord side of things makes it that bit more difficult for you, but your main problem is like with any house share...there's always going to be a messy/scabby/annoying housemate. At least you said she seems sound, so that's good. I think things have just changed for you personally. Paying rent for 7 months doesn't make it just as much your house as hers. She's the one paying house taxes, insurance etc, and more than likely a hefty mortgage on top of that. Just move out if you don't like the new dynamic, but honestly unless you're moving with your previous crew that you know you can live with, then you probably are going to face similar problems.

_Kaiser_ · 17-02-2014 7:31pm

OP as already mentioned I think you're best/only real option is to move out at this stage - maybe you could all get another place together?

Side note - Who says that rentals are stacked in favour of the tenant? Here ya have a owner who's shown up out of the blue, is stealing from her tenants, and yet they are the ones now who have to move?! Yes.. tenant-favoured indeed!

Hope you get sorted either way OP!

MouseTail · 17-02-2014 7:56pm

This is not a tenancy though, tenants rented under rent a room scheme. This scheme was brought in to alleviate the last rental crisis, you would never get people willing to rent out rooms in their PPR if the same regulations and rights applied as to normal tenancies.

athtrasna · 17-02-2014 8:07pm

MouseTail wrote: »

This is not a tenancy though, tenants rented under rent a room scheme. This scheme was brought in to alleviate the last rental crisis, you would never get people willing to rent out rooms in their PPR if the same regulations and rights applied as to normal tenancies.

The point is that the OP and housemates did not move into a rent a room scheme, which only applies when the landlord resides in the house. As another poster pointed out, the tenants rented their rooms in the house when it most definitely was not a rent a room scenario, that can't just change retrospectively.

The_Morrigan · 17-02-2014 8:11pm

OP I'm curious - was the landlords room occupied or empty while she was in Germany?

SeanSouth · 18-02-2014 1:45am

It seems to me that the OP has a house share budget but wants all the convenience and facility of sole occupation.

You're sharing a house with others. You have your own room and you share some common rooms with all other residents. Its exactly what it says on the tin. These room mates are your new "family". You cant expect them to "disappear" or "shut up" just to suit your whim or mood or to facilitate your visitors.

Each person sharing the house is entitled to be present in any of the shared rooms at any time. Your landlord house mate has not prevented you from using any of the shared facilities. Your irritation and complaint is that you don't want her there all the time. You don't like her commentary. You don't like her choice of TV, you don't like her company etc etc. Your problem is that this is actually what you have signed up for and she is doing absolutely nothing wrong. I don't think you can expect to be hosting friends in this type of accommodation. Its not really included in the price. Yes it might be more comfortable for you if she wasn't there all the time but unfortunately that's just how it is.

I sense that your main grievance is that it was better before the landlord returned from Germany and you'd prefer if it remained that way.

Shared houses are cheap and cheap for a reason. In exchange for a cheap accommodation you need to put up with living with strangers, that you don't necessarily like.

If you want more privacy, get yourself an apartment. It will cost you more.If you don't want to spend more, you'd be better off trying to get along with your house mates instead of issuing ultimatums or calling house meeting or any of that other nonsense that has been suggested here. You could move out but it may not be any better in the next place. In fact what you have described here is probably quite typical, quite average for this type of housing arrangement.

Eutow · 18-02-2014 1:54am

SeanSouth wrote: »

If you want more privacy, get yourself an apartment. It will cost you more.If you don't want to spend more, you'd be better off trying to get along with your house mates instead of issuing ultimatums or calling house meeting or any of that other nonsense

The OP in a later post mentioned that the landlord is now taking other people's food and cigs without asking, so that alone calls for a meeting. The landlord is also not contributing any money towards payment of the utilities. The landlord is using electricity, heating, the t.v. and the internet, so should contribute. I would be pissed off coming home after a long day at work and finding out that the food I planned to cook had been taken by somebody else.

Landlord won't go away!

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