School Uniforms: Yea or Nea

DazMarz

Well... seeing as how another thread in here started a really spirited debate on the topic of school uniforms, I thought I'd bung this thread up.

So, what say you, the good people of After Hours? Should children wear uniforms to school?

Personally, as someone who flouted the school's rule regarding the uniform (by wearing jeans and runners and never wearing the tie for most of my senior years in school), I feel a school uniform is a bit of a swizz, and could probably be done away with. It has its pro's and its con's, but personally I think it should be done away with.

There is a poll added on it, but it might take a while for it to show up.

Vote "Yea" for the retention of school uniforms and thinking they're a positive thing.

Vote "Nea" for the abolishment of school uniforms and thinking they're a negative thing.

Vote "Atari Jaguar" for real change, and progress and bringing jobs to the people...

justshane

Nea

Yes, no uniforms create a potential problem to keep up with trends/styles when their is no problem at the moment.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

A good idea but a huge rip off!
Schools getting kickbacks from the certain few shops allowed to sell the uniform.
Parents being ripped off big time!

DazMarz

Atari Jaguar

True, it takes pressure off parents/kids for not having to wear the trendiest of the trendy clothes...

but equally, is there not a pressure to buy EVERYTHING with the school crest on it and so on? Stuff that can be extortionate?

Most schools in my local area have certain generic stuff that can be used (shirts, trousers, shoes, etc.). But one school takes the piss. The shirt must be a pale, mint green shirt. Not white or light blue shirts (Dunnes Stores special at €10 for 3 of them). These shirts cost like €30 a pop and are only supplied by one shop. That is piss-taking of the highest order. Of course, many people got around it by sticking a bunch of white shirts into the wash with a green sock and presto. Problem solved.

I think schools care way too much about the uniform too; it's ridiculous how much of teachers' time is wasted by caring what shoes or trousers someone is wearing. Never mind someone getting the head bet off them every day or something. Oh no, trousers and shoes must be proper.

Thankfully, the secondary I went to was a bit more lax on the uniform. Proper stuff was disciplined and less time was spent on irritating kids on not wearing those god-awful trousers or uncomfortable shoes.

Benteke

Nea

Uniforms are the cheaper option, Same clothes for all. If kids were to go casual, A few kids would have the latest fashion accessories that others would not be able to afford and kids would end up getting bullied because of it, Leave it the way it is because the problems would be endless

Cupcake_Crisis

School uniforms are grand. I know personally if I had to try find something to wear to school every day I never would have been on time. My punctuality was shocking as it was.

I do think that girls should have the option of trousers all year round. Skirts were a nightmare in winter. And the whole no make up thing should be scrapped.

anncoates

Yes but generic uniforms would suffice. Just trousers or skirt and a non branded polo shirt. No shirts, ties, crested jumpers, blazers etc.

December2012

Nea

Uniforms all the way.

Much more practical and cheaper in the long run.

biko

Nea

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

A good idea but a huge rip off!
Schools getting kickbacks from the certain few shops allowed to sell the uniform.
Parents being ripped off big time!

To be honest it's reducing cost of clothes (wear and tear) or so my parent friends tell me.

Peregrine

Nea

Yes.

Students can be identified if they're causing trouble on public buses, shops or on the streets. This happens a lot, especially in the cities.
It would avoid all the "I can't wear the same outfit twice a week/month" shite.
It's cheaper than having to buy clothes to keep up with trends.
Some students would dread having to pick what to wear every morning.


But the uniforms out there now are just awful and the parents are getting ripped off for most of it.
"School jackets" are the biggest load of bollox ever. Forcing every student to wear the same jacket, which had a paper thin hood with a piece of string around it, no matter how cold, windy or rainy the weather is is just cruel. My school had a rule where they were the only jackets allowed in the school but they had to be removed in class all year because they were apparently not part of the school uniform..and they cost €60. Fuck off.

shruikan2553

Atari Jaguar

They should either be more generic (no need for a tie either) or just get rid of them. Dont really see the whole bullying thing being an issue. Its must be a warzone when kids are outside of school with all the bullying they must do over clothes.

AgileMyth

It allows the rebels to identify themselves by wearing jeans and runners.

The Backwards Man

Nea

Hell yeah!

I went to school in the backarse of nowhere and even there, there were kids who thought they were Jason Priestley or Shannen Doherty.

My name is URL

Couldn't they just have strict rules of the type of (non uniform) clothes kids were to school? Trends and wealth differences wouldn't be very apparent if it was limited to specific sorts of plain jumpers and so on.

Whenever this debate crops up there are people that seem to assume that some kids are going to go to school dressed like pimps or something.

Plates

Hasn't this topic been discussed to death already? It's as tiresome as threads about bankers, property prices and neknomination.

The Backwards Man

Nea

My name is URL wrote: »

Couldn't they just have strict rules of the type of (non uniform) clothes kids were to school? Trends and wealth differences wouldn't be very apparent if it was limited to specific sorts of plain jumpers and so on.

Whenever this debate crops up there are people that seem to assume that some kids are going to go to school dressed like pimps or something.

I once got threw over a wall into a shuck because I was wearing a burgundy coat Burton. All the cool kids had a Levi jacket.:(

Kids will find a way.

TheDriver

Being in school management, its important to clarify a few things:
1) I don't know of any school getting "kickbacks" from shops. in fact, I barely know who works in these shops
2) costs should be low. shirts, shoes etc should be generic. However having items of clothing that create fashion stakes can be problematic e.g. mini skirts, skin tight pants, nike runners..... etc. Unfortunately people have very wide ranging views on what is appropriate.
3) some schools and their parents want highly expensive uniforms to keep out people who can afford things. That's wrong.
4) practicality must show. Kids themselves will tell you they want uniforms as its much easier and no peer pressure.

nzylo

I think a less expensive uniform would be the best. This year I payed €60 for just the navy jumper with a crest embroided. The quality seems to be worth €30. A solution in my eyes is take away the expensive crests and replace with stripes or something and have the school names initials on it. There is no reason for a bland ordinary jumper to be €60. I wouldnt even pay that for everyday clothes.
Abolishing the uniform could be a way to go but only for senior students i think, as the more mature type would be expected to be less on competitive trends than younger juniors. This thing of a free education has become a joke, with books around €30 each.

The Diabolical Monocle

Nea

Definite Yes. Keep uniforms.

Anything to antagonize hipsters, wiggers, goths, emos, et al. Generally all the little scrotes who think a label is a great victory.

Plus teen girls should always wear school uniforms. (with brief exceptions)
And pigtails.

Nea

School uniforms are great, no competing for the best clobber, no trying to choose what to wear every day, uniform was on the floor handy to just chuck on every morning, into the wash on a Friday evening... cannot imagine what not wearing it would have been like.

We didn't have crests on our uniform - I know my old school does, now, though.

DazMarz

Atari Jaguar

AgileMyth wrote: »

It allows the rebels to identify themselves by wearing jeans and runners.

Me: the 16 year old rebel without a clue...

BetterThanThou

Atari Jaguar

I'd definitely say do away with them. They're uncomfortable and not suitable for all weather. I spent many days in school sweaty as hell, and other days very cold. Any day it was rainy, I had to bring a giant school jacket, which I wasn't even allowed wear during class and had to carry it around all day, the only other option was to cram a small waterproof jacket into my already packed school bag, which the principal would confiscate if he saw, so I had to get outside school grounds before putting it on. And come secondary school, people are unlikely to be teased over their clothes, as there's different styles, and people aren't expected to adhere to the one trendy style. I've worn most of my clothes out of Penney's since around when I started secondary school, and I've been considered very well dressed by most of my peers. And on top of that, school jumpers were absolute crap, at least in my school anyway. Any time I bought a school jumper, within a month it would have at least one rip in it. Plus, when doing subjects like Woodwork/Art/ect, it's likely to get stained, even if you do wear an apron. However, I definitely support restrictions on what people can wear. Some things just aren't appropriate for a school setting, I wouldn't allow the likes of mini skirts and wifebeaters, but I feel other than that, anything else should be fair game.

DoozerT6

Nea

anncoates wrote: »

Yes but generic uniforms would suffice. Just trousers or skirt and a non branded polo shirt. No shirts, ties, crested jumpers, blazers etc.

Yeah, this, pretty much. Schools could sell crests separately that could be stitched or ironed onto jumpers (removable for adding to new jumpers) if they so wished. Parents could then easily kit out a primary school-going child for about €50 total, a bit more for secondary I would guess.

Back when I started secondary school, fadó fadó, I went to a school that had generic jumpers and blouses, but a very specific skirt which was only available in one shop in the town (and yes, it was expensive!!) which our mothers all bought about two sizes too big for us so it would last us through the whole 5 years And in many cases, it did, being of very good quality.

fedor.2.

This thread isn't what I thought it was going to be:(

zcorpian88

Nea

Used to be in the "nea crowd" as the kid in me hated the uniforms I had to wear, but when you think about it wearing the latest style of clothes will be a burden and more costly on parents, kids will be a lot more demanding of what clothes to wear. Wearing the right clothes puts a lot of kids under pressure if they are wanting a different change of clothes everyday to "keep up with the Jones's"

I remember when I was in 3rd year about 8/9 years ago. We had a GAA jersey day and everyone showed up in their Kilkenny jersey, there was a young one, a year under me wearing the cheaper and therefore non official Penney's Kilkenny jersey. The young gone got completely berated over it, it wasn't even funny like how much she was picked on and belittled over it because she didn't have the 40-60 euro O Neills jersey. I can only imagine what it would have been like when you didn't have to wear a uniform at all.

F**k I didn't even have a jersey that day, I came in wearing the uniform, nothing said to me for some reason.

I do agree that uniforms are a rip off though. 100 euro and upwards to freeze and itch yourself to death.

timthumbni

Nea

Yes to uniforms. Kids are so picky about their clothes these days and having a standard uniform makes things less of a hassle. No arguments as they know what they have to wear.

I certainly don't agree with some of the prices but better than having to keep with The fashion if wearing their own clothes each day. Anyway why is this even a debate. I didn't realise that there were any schools that didn't have a uniform these days.

MadsL

Nea

Voted yes, but I do think the uniforms need modernising. Girls should be allowed to wear trousers and a decent hard wearing coat, plus hoodie, plus T shirt in the school colours would be better.

I had the joys of the polyester blazer - what a crap idea that was - classful of 14 year old armpits under synthetic material sitting in direct sunlight. Whoa.

Eileen Down

I prefer a nurse's uniform myself or from time to time a naughty nun but if my wife fancies wearing a school uniform, I'm not going to object.

MadsL

Nea

Thread is topical.

http://www.education.ie/en/Press-Events/Press-Releases/2013-Press-Releases/PR2013-12-09.html

Schools are today (9th December) being sent a ballot paper to issue to parents on school uniforms. The survey, which was developed in consultation with the education partners, asks two main questions:
- Do parents want their school to have a uniform?
- And if so, whether they want generic or bespoke uniforms?
The first question aims to simply ascertain if parents want their school to have a uniform. While the second question aims to identify if parents want to see changes to uniform policy which could reduce costs and make uniforms more affordable.
Schools are being asked to send the surveys to parents by February to allow Boards of Management the time to consider the results and to make any changes warranted by September next.

-


Anyone got this yet?

Amirani

Atari Jaguar

I voted no, but I think some standardisation of clothing is a good thing. Just set the dress code as a shirt, trousers and shoes. None of the horrible, furry and overpriced jumpers. No need for ties either, they're becoming less common in all aspects of life, why keep them in schools?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Atari Jaguar

No, the damn thigns are utterly pointless.

They do NOT do any of the things that the pro camp seems to love (keep brand-competition out of the playground, give kids a sense of school pride (:D), etc.)

I have yet to hear ONE good argument in favour of uniforms that a flexible dress code could not be an equal if not better solution.

Ruu

Yes to uniforms, we were the only school in the area with uniforms. I always thought it reflected better when we went away on trips or whatever. Generic is fine, nothing fancy.

There was only one shop to get the uniform when I was in school and was pricey enough for a blue shirt, navy trousers and navy geansai in primary school.

Midway through secondary school, they decided to change the grey top to maroon (had to have a school crest as well) and people in 5th and 6th year had to change as well. Girls were (and still are) allowed wear trousers after some protesting drummed up by one pupil.

MadsL

Nea

NiallSparky wrote: »

I voted no, but I think some standardisation of clothing is a good thing. Just set the dress code as a shirt, trousers and shoes.

Do you want this, beause that is how you get that.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Atari Jaguar

TheDriver wrote: »

4) practicality must show. Kids themselves will tell you they want uniforms as its much easier and no peer pressure.

Yet to meet one. On the other hand, I know hundreds who hate shirts and ties.

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

Anything to antagonize hipsters, wiggers, goths, emos, et al. Generally all the little scrotes who think a label is a great victory.

In other words "no self-expression"?!"

Deleted User wrote: »

School uniforms are great, no competing for the best clobber, no trying to choose what to wear every day, uniform was on the floor handy to just chuck on every morning, into the wash on a Friday evening... cannot imagine what not wearing it would have been like.

We didn't have crests on our uniform - I know my old school does, now, though.

Yeah, that really works. Kids have absolutely no sense of competition these days when it coems to clothes.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Atari Jaguar

MadsL wrote: »

Do you want this, beause that is how you get that.

How the hell is that a dress code...?

MadsL

Nea

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

How the hell is that a dress code...?

But Miss! I am wearing "shoes, trousers and a shirt".

Trust me, I was a teacher.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Atari Jaguar

MadsL wrote: »

But Miss! I am wearing "shoes, trousers and a shirt".

Trust me, I was a teacher.

Miss? Who the **** are you calling "Miss"?!

Greenmachine

Never saw any benefit in school uniforms. The price of crested jumper in my secondary school were ridiculously expensive £60 or so this was in 1997. Generic jumpers at that point could be got for little more than £10. Even then I was convinced of the school operating a kickback scheme from the one designated clothes shop selling the crested jumpers.

Paddy Cow

Atari Jaguar

How many people went to a school with no uniform? I didn't wear one in either primary or secondary and was never bullied for my clothes or had any problems getting dressed in the mornings.

MadsL

Nea

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Miss? Who the **** are you calling "Miss"?!

So, sorry. I clearly should have said "Your Royal Highness"

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Atari Jaguar

MadsL wrote: »

So, sorry. I clearly should have said "Your Royal Highness"

That's more like it, you little urchin! Uniforms clearly doing an ineffective job on you!

Crea

School uniforms are great for parents so at that end i'm all for them.

FizzleSticks

Nea

This post has been deleted.

DazMarz

Atari Jaguar

There was unholy murder in my secondary school about girls not being allowed wear trousers. I thought it was stupid and was fully supportive of letting them not freeze to death in skirts in the middle of winter. Even though the flimsy grey school slacks were useless in winter (hence my eschewing of the slacks in favour of warmer and sturdier jeans), they're a damn sight better than skirts!!!

I would agree with what a lot of people say: generic uniform. Nothing fancy. Shirt, slacks, normal shoes. No crests, no unnecessary bollocks and cheap and cheerful. I'm thinking along the lines of Homer Simpson (plain shirt, jeans, shoes), Hal from Malcolm In The Middle (shirt, tie, slacks) or D-FENS from Falling Down (short-sleeved white shirt, tie, slacks, GI Joe Boots, pump action shotgun... damn, not that much).

There's no need for fancy school uniforms (except for in posh private schools where the parents can afford to send their kids to school in blazers and all that nonsense). If a school insists on uniforms, something practical, comfortable and affordable is the way to go. Which pretty much nixes all current useless school uniforms in Ireland.

orangesoda

Nea

Aye they should without a doubt as it would just lead to more bullying, though you used to get abuse if you buttoned your top shirt button and tucked in your shirt neatly

thelad95

People can argue about how uncomfortable or awful looking uniforms are and they truly are but they are a necessary evil. As a young person today your clothes say so much about you. Are you poor/well-off, a 'goth/emo' type, a 'skanger' or one of those stupid boyband impersonators with your purple skinny jeans and A&F hoody. Also, especially in girls schools you would need to wear a different outfit every day. I don't believe in so-called studies that say students wearing uniform perform better in school. There is no way there is correlation between the two. But with all the pressure above bullying would inevitably increase.

A lot of people here are slating blazers but in all honesty they are so much more respectable than those grandfather jumpers. I don't think they would be practical on younger kids though.

As for people calling for generic uniforms, while I think a lot of schools are up their own arse with their awful bespoke designs, bringing in generic uniforms would be the first step towards abolishing uniform altogether

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Atari Jaguar

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

Definite Yes. Keep uniforms.

Anything to antagonize hipsters, wiggers, goths, emos, et al. Generally all the little scrotes who think a label is a great victory.

Plus teen girls should always wear school uniforms. (with brief exceptions)
And pigtails.

i actually hadn't considered the jailbait angle. changing my vote to yes

Conchir

Nea

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I have yet to hear ONE good argument in favour of uniforms that a flexible dress code could not be an equal if not better solution.

Students themselves (except the fight the power, school can't tell me what to do camp) tend to want uniforms. Always thought that was a decent argument for them

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Atari Jaguar

Conchir wrote: »

Students themselves (except the fight the power, school can't tell me what to do camp) tend to want uniforms. Always thought that was a decent argument for them

As I said earlier, I've never met one that liked uniforms, and that include when I was growing up myself. Dress codes, yes - no probelm there - but not uniforms. Kids tend not to like shirts and ties.

Also, there aren;t that many "fight the power" type kids - just the out-and-out messers. They type ypu portray is more of a universtiy/college ideal.

GalwayGuy2

Nea

Being in school management, its important to clarify a few things:
1) I don't know of any school getting "kickbacks" from shops. in fact, I barely know who works in these shops
2) costs should be low. shirts, shoes etc should be generic. However having items of clothing that create fashion stakes can be problematic e.g. mini skirts, skin tight pants, nike runners..... etc. Unfortunately people have very wide ranging views on what is appropriate.
3) some schools and their parents want highly expensive uniforms to keep out people who can afford things. That's wrong.
4) practicality must show. Kids themselves will tell you they want uniforms as its much easier and no peer pressur

Hmmm, I doubt anybody gets kickbacks, but I'd say the school is artificially boosting a freinds stores sales.

The only place where we could buy uniforms was in the local village. Close to 60 euro and made in china:rolleyes:

osarusan

I will vote yes if the poll is amended to say Japanese school uniforms.