Steering [not centering]

aldeniro

Hi there,
I'm having issues with my car not self centering. My garage is trying to tell me not all cars do this and not to be worried. From research it looks like all cars should centralise irrespective of transmission? In honesty don't know much about car mechanics. Can one of ye guys give me here opinions .

Ta
Al D

Situation

aldeniro wrote: »

Hi there,
I'm having issues with my car not self centering. My garage is trying to tell me not all cars do this and not to be worried. From research it looks like all cars should centralise irrespective of transmission? In honesty don't know much about car mechanics. Can one of ye guys give me here opinions .

Ta
Al D

I think you need a new mechanic, what car are you driving?

aldeniro

Hi
So am I right in saying it should self centralise? Its a 2009 Passat TDI. Its the garage where I bought it from, have not asked my mechanic.

Situation

aldeniro wrote: »

Hi
So am I right in saying it should self centralise? Its a 2009 Passat TDI. Its the garage where I bought it from, have not asked my mechanic.[/


It should not pull left or right, you need to get the tracking done most tire companys can do this for you.

Sorry just realized do you mean when you turn and then accelerate and let the steering wheel go it does not straighten

aldeniro

Hi

Its not centering post maneouver. They did tracking...greasing of the shaft and then replaced boll joints plus column. They now saying that they are saying , the lack of centerings is "just one of those things" and its common.

Just wanted to ask does anyone in if this is true or should I insist on further investigation?

Situation

aldeniro wrote: »

Hi

Its not centering post maneouver. They did tracking...greasing of the shaft and then replaced boll joints plus column. They now saying that they are saying , the lack of centerings is "just one of those things" and its common.

Just wanted to ask does anyone in if this is true or should I insist on further investigation?

It doesnt sound right maybe someone with a passat on here can confirm, are they original wheels on it,

Greyfoot

Different models have different factory caster values. Mercedes famous for its steering wheel straightening out like a boss after cornering.

aldeniro

Yup original wheels. From researching online, was looking at caster angles and other bits of steering related research. Couple of mates of mine are saying that self centerings should occur normally and that for a car not to self centralise points to something else wrong with the car. Can anyone say definitively that all cars should self centralise post manoever? Or are they correct when they said its basically one of those things that I have to live with?

Greyfoot

Self centering depends on tyre, rim size, power steering setup, suspension components and wheel alignment, most notably positive caster angle, but think of it all of the above combinations. A slight change here and there would make a difference, example thicker sway bar with a wider rim etc, that`s why I told you different models behave differently.

At some degree all cars steering wheel should self center post cornering but its a complex equation. If you noticed decreased self centering, unusual behavior and/or noises get the alignment, tires and suspension checked out.

EDIT> A Merc for example is rwd, it will push its nose out of a corner, positive caster will pull the steering out of your hands more easier than your fwd Passat due to different handling characteristic and affecting forces.

mickdw

Of course it should always be wanting to return to the straight ahead when drivng forward at least. Is it the same to the left and to the right?
If you have just bought this, I would have it inspected at a vw dealer. Get a firm diagnosis and go from there with the selling dealer.

aldeniro

Thanks guys. I bought it from a main VW dealer. The have had it in quite a few times and they made the repairs as mentioned above, alignment verified,wheels and rims are ok, lubing the shaft, and last 2 things they did were to replace the steering column and then the lower ball joints. All ade no difference. What they are saying now is that its normal the fact its not returning to center and is one of those things. Its the same if its a right or left manqouver. Should i accept the response or should they really be investigating further?

mickdw

Considering that geometry must be reasonable given the checks carried out, I can only think of something to do with the steering pump / rack.

aldeniro

Thanks Mick. So if its still not self centering, am i within my rights to say to the dealer that it needs to be looked in to further, and that their asertion that its normal or one of those things is unacceptable?

biko

A car is always trying to go straight so if it keeps turning if you let go of the wheel mid-corner something is def up.
You could pump front tyres up to their max (says on the side) and see if that helps. Over-inflated tyres will be more prone to straighten up and camber/toe won't have as much effect.

aldeniro

Hi,
Not centering is post maneover. For example, I take a 90 deg right or left, and watch the wheel feed through mmy hands when going back to a straight line position, it does not centralize - it stays left/right dependand on maneover. Its a good bit off and needs correction. Psi per tyre is correct. Steering feels stiff, but tis like anything you get used to it

Big Nasty

aldeniro wrote: »

What they are saying now is that its normal the fact its not returning to center and is one of those things. Its the same if its a right or left manqouver. Should i accept the response or should they really be investigating further?

What you are saying is that if you turn the wheel to the left / right you have to feed the wheel back in to center position yourself?

Bollox that's normal. :eek:

aldeniro

Big Nasty wrote: »

What you are saying is that if you turn the wheel to the left / right you have to feed the wheel back in to center position yourself?

Bollox that's normal. :eek:

as it it goes back a certin amount itself post maneouver, but fails to centralze fully to straight line - so then i correct it myself to the center line position.

Sorry i dont know the technical bits and am probably not explaining myself well (sorry)

Big Nasty

aldeniro wrote: »

as it it goes back a certin amount itself post maneouver, but fails to centralze fully to straight line - so then i correct it myself to the center line position.

Sorry i dont know the technical bits and am probably not explaining myself well (sorry)

So it does turn back, not just at the rate / extent you would wish? You recently bought this car, right? Some cars have lighter PS than others. Is it possible you came from a car with very light PS to something more heavy?

wonski

aldeniro wrote: »

as it it goes back a certin amount itself post maneouver, but fails to centralze fully to straight line - so then i correct it myself to the center line position.

Sorry i dont know the technical bits and am probably not explaining myself well (sorry)

If it is just an inch off the centre then it "could be" normal. If you have to turn it all the way back then something went terribly wrong at some stage.

biko

Ah ok so it does straighten up, just not all the way?
Tbh, without driving your car I can't say but mine is similar - wheel won't return to dead centre. I have Subaru steering, can use a finger to twist wheel so it's not something I have a problem steering.

If in doubt, have a second Passat mech take a look. They have years of experience with the brand and should know when it feels "right".

Drive some friends' cars and see how they feel like.

mickdw

aldeniro wrote: »

Thanks Mick. So if its still not self centering, am i within my rights to say to the dealer that it needs to be looked in to further, and that their asertion that its normal or one of those things is unacceptable?

I'd love to know how bad is it? Is it unstable on the road at 100 kph or does it snap into bends or anything like that?
Have you driven a similar one. Same age and engine. I would advise you to do that and if yours is different, demand its fixed.
Im not sure if some versions of the Passat got more advanced power steering that varies the level of assistance depending on speed etc but that might be worth asking. I know on audi models that were fitted with the more advanced setup, it is possible to make the steering very light or very heavy by playing with vcds (diagnostic computer).

aldeniro

Hi,
Nope not the power steering (have driven right dogs in the past so can compare). Its not the rate of returning to center. Its that it stops centralising at a certain point post maneover and only a correction by myself takes the cebtral line again

aldeniro

mickdw wrote: »

I'd love to know how bad is it? Is it unstable on the road at 100 kph or does it snap into bends or anything like that?
Have you driven a similar one. Same age and engine. I would advise you to do that and if yours is different, demand its fixed.
Im not sure if some versions of the Passat got more advanced power steering that varies the level of assistance depending on speed etc but that might be worth asking. I know on audi models that were fitted with the more advanced setup, it is possible to make the steering very light or very heavy by playing with vcds (diagnostic computer).

No issues ith stability at 100/120kph at all - id say its about 3/4 inches of center post maneover

Big Nasty

aldeniro wrote: »

Hi,
Nope not the power steering (have driven right dogs in the past so can compare). Its not the rate of returning to center. Its that it stops centralising at a certain point post maneover and only a correction by myself takes the cebtral line again

How many degrees from centre would you say it stops and is the position roughly the same all the time? E.g. 10' to the left of centre?

aldeniro

Thanks Mick - ill defo go looking for same year ect and compare - good idea

aldeniro

Big Nasty wrote: »

How many degrees from centre would you say it stops and is the position roughly the same all the time? E.g. 10' to the left of centre?

Maybe approx 20-30 - and roughly same correction needed most times? and corrected at that point

Big Nasty

aldeniro wrote: »

Maybe approx 20-30? and corrected at that point

To the left or right and always to the same point?

aldeniro

Big Nasty wrote: »

To the left or right and always to the same point?

either left or right hand turning is approx the same

mathepac

Big Nasty wrote: »

What you are saying is that if you turn the wheel to the left / right you have to feed the wheel back in to center position yourself? ...

Sounds to me as if when the road-wheels point straight ahead, the steering wheel is off-centre.

Greyfoot

Also considering the "dead" play on the steering wheel, you also need to correct the tyre direction as well, aka the car won`t straighten out fully or just the steering wheel?

Big Nasty

aldeniro wrote: »

either left or right hand turning is approx the same

What I'm asking is does it always return to the same position, e.g. 10' left of centre.

hi5

you may need more 'toe in'.
The more toe in you have the more it will self centre.

Big Nasty

mathepac wrote: »

Sounds to me as if when the road-wheels point straight ahead, the steering wheel is off-centre.

Ya don't say!?! :eek:

slimjimmc

aldeniro wrote: »

Hi

Its not centering post maneouver. They did tracking...greasing of the shaft and then replaced boll joints plus column. They now saying that they are saying , the lack of centerings is "just one of those things" and its common.

Just wanted to ask does anyone in if this is true or should I insist on further investigation?

He talking through his hat.

I've never had nor ever drove a car that didn't self-centre and no manufacturer would ever be allowed to put a passenger car on the roads of Europe with steering that's not designed to self-centre EC 183/2011

5 | Directive 70/311/EEC (Steering effort) | Mechanical systems(a)The steering mechanism shall be built as to self-centre. In order to check compliance with this provision, a test shall be conducted in accordance with points 5.1.2 and 5.2.1 of Annex I to Directive 70/311/EEC.(b)The failure of the power steering equipment shall not lead to a complete loss of control of the vehicle.Complex electronic vehicle control system ("Drive-by wire" devices)Complex electronic control system shall be permitted only if they comply with Annex 6 to UNECE Regulation No 79.

aldeniro

Cheers Slim Jim, that exactly the detail I was looking to read!

swarlb

slimjimmc wrote: »

He talking through his hat.

I've never had nor ever drove a car that didn't self-centre and no manufacturer would ever be allowed to put a passenger car on the roads of Europe with steering that's not designed to self-centre EC 183/2011

There is an exception to every rule, and in this case more than one. Many, many cars did not 'self centre', and were never designed to do so, certainly not in the way a 'modern' car does.
If you like, I'll let you drive one of mine, then you can see for yourself. PM for details.

aldeniro

I think that link and detail supports any request that i need to make to the garage, who say its normal ??

slimjimmc

aldeniro wrote: »

I think that link and detail supports any request that i need to make to the garage, who say its normal ??

I've looked deeper into the test criteria 70/311/EC (PDF) and to pass the requirement the car must be able to leave a 50m radius curve at a tangent while fully laden and driven at 50km/h.

It might not be the news you were looking for

toyotaavensis

OP there is a lad who posts here who is a vw specialist called George Dalton. He has some good advice in his posts, might be worth PM ing him

aldeniro

Thanks for that...will do

Thoie

aldeniro wrote: »

Thanks guys. I bought it from a main VW dealer.
...
What they are saying now is that its normal the fact its not returning to center and is one of those things. Its the same if its a right or left manqouver. Should i accept the response or should they really be investigating further?

If it's a main dealer, I'd ask to take a few of their other cars out for a drive and see if they all do that. If they have a similar model (and try a different model as well), it should be pretty obvious if it's a feature or a bug.

aldeniro

I drove 2 today...a mates and his mates. They cantralize more or less dead center after a maneuver. Im convinced now there is defo something still amiss and I think the garage has spent X amount, and are now trying to fob me off by saying alls ok with car?