Technological University to be forced to close "non-technological" departments?

fricatus

I don't have a link, but I saw a story in the News & Star about how the proposed Technological University will not be allowed to maintain "non-technological" departments.

Anyone else know anything about this? The story mentioned that the TU would not be allowed to have medical, legal or arts departments.

Presumably that means all the legal courses would go, as would the music school (which makes a huge contribution to the musical life of the city). Isn't there a major tourism course and a school of nursing?

This is increasingly looking like a very bum deal for Waterford. :mad:

7upfree

fricatus wrote: »

I don't have a link, but I saw a story in the News & Star about how the proposed Technological University will not be allowed to maintain "non-technological" departments.

Anyone else know anything about this? The story mentioned that the TU would not be allowed to have medical, legal or arts departments.

Presumably that means all the legal courses would go, as would the music school (which makes a huge contribution to the musical life of the city). Isn't there a major tourism course and a school of nursing?

This is increasingly looking like a very bum deal for Waterford. :mad:

The whole thing is ill-conceived and farcical. Not one with the balls to say "let's call it University of Waterford, a la Cork, Limerick and Galway - all cities with their names in their university's title.

Cork and the wider educational "establishment" want to see Waterford kept down at every turn.

neilk32

7upfree wrote: »

Cork and the wider educational "establishment" want to see Waterford kept down at every turn.

I think this is a bit of a conspiracy theory, as somebody attending the college it's simply not good enough.

Ken McCarthy

As a Cork man living and working in Waterford I very much doubt the "Cork and the wider establishment conspiracy theory" and I think it takes away from the very valid case for a Technological University of the South East.

I have not read the article in the News & Star but I have had a quick look at the actual Technological Universities Bill (Link)and nowhere in there (that I could find) is there any requirement to close "non-technological" departments. I suspect that the story may be a journalist deciding the Music, Law or Arts are non-technological and therefore have no place in a TU.

While the proposed merger and multi-campus nature of a South East Technological University may not be to everyone's taste it is a step forward and would be a welcome improvement to the higher education landscape of the region.

tomwaterford

neilk32 wrote: »

I think this is a bit of a conspiracy theory, as somebody attending the college it's simply not good enough.

i've often wondered this...anyone I know geos there says some serious issues with relatively simple things like computers not working etc

I taught myself it was just a sop thrown to Waterford...as government didn't want to be open the can of worms of a lot of ITs wanting to universitys

and if they were the be all to end all in terms of unemployment surly if this was the case limerick wouldn't have a single unemployed person - 3 third level collages there

BBM77

Ken McCarthy wrote: »

...it is a step forward and would be a welcome improvement to the higher education landscape of the region.

Christ sake fella how is this an improvement. Fewer departments, still in the second tier of third level education compared to the other cities and realistically any investment will be in Kilkenny and Wexford because they have the ministers to pull it there. It is nothing more than a name change, and which as is usually the case with government treatment of Waterford, when the details are examined the “improvement” in reality does little to address the problem that is their job to fix. We simply don’t have the political power at present to achieve any gain, two of our TD’s are at the lowest level on the ladder and Deasy is an out-case as far as I can see.

gw80

neilk32 wrote: »

I think this is a bit of a conspiracy theory, as somebody attending the college it's simply not good enough.

"not good enought" due to lack of support maybe?.
That statement kinda backs up the theory,no?
What would it take to be good enough, money is all really and more support from our neighbors,

we are unlucky imo to be stuck between the two biggest citys in the south,
As in, Dublin would consider its catchment area in regards to educational and business wise to stretch as far as wexford and killkenny, and then cork would be pulling from the other direction.

For example, If our airport was to get full backing to take larger planes we would be taking business from Cork and Dublin, and the same with a university, and there,s just too much clout in Dublin (the capitol) and Cork (second city) to let that happen.

So I think its less of a conspiracy theory and more of a strategical business plan, But it is happening

foobally

I read an article, also in the News and Star, possibly the same article that specifically said there would be NO closure of non-technological departments. It's on pg 5 of this weeks News & Star, the spokesperson from the Dept of Education says "It is certainly not intended to be overly prescriptive about the nature of those programmes or to seek the closure of existing programmes in an institution"

My apologies to the braindead moaning rabble, you have to get off your hobby horses and wait for the next imagined slight by the government. But don't worry, someone will make up something soon.

AdMMM

neilk32 wrote: »

I think this is a bit of a conspiracy theory, as somebody attending the college it's simply not good enough.

And how does it does it become a university standard institution? Through more funding, that's how. And why doesn't it get more funding? Because it's not a university.

Endless loop.

7upfree

AdMMM wrote: »

And how does it does it become a university standard institution? Through more funding, that's how. And why doesn't it get more funding? Because it's not a university.

Endless loop.

In one. And a cycle perpetuated by the educational establishment. And as for the brain-dead sheep that cannot see the conspiracy, well there's really no hope. The dogs in the street can see it really.

Digital Society

So what do we do exactly sack all the current lecturers and hire more qualified replacements?

Explain exactly how it will become a university just by throwing money at it.

redtelephone

Digital Society wrote: »

So what do we do exactly sack all the current lecturers and hire more qualified replacements?

Explain exactly how it will become a university just by throwing money at it.

It needs 45% of staff to have PhD qualifications to be a university according to the Technological Universities Bill, at present it's only 25% who have PhD. Also, WIT cannot become a university on its own, it has to merge with Carlow IT before they both apply for university status, that's why it can't be called Waterford University. The university will be shared with Carlow.

Gardner

i wonder what mary roche and ciara conway are saying now.....

2 of the biggest frauds to be seen in waterford

Hijpo

Gardner wrote: »

i wonder what mary roche and ciara conway are saying now.....

2 of the biggest frauds to be seen in waterford

The only time youll see them saying anything about Waterford is when something happens they tend to have a column in the paper "welcoming the decision" as opposed to actually having any input or pull in getting anything.

Now, a photo opportunity? Conway would be there in a flash, excuse the pun.

neilk32

Digital Society wrote: »

So what do we do exactly sack all the current lecturers and hire more qualified replacements?

Explain exactly how it will become a university just by throwing money at it.

This is exactly the problem. They have lecturers who are there for 20 years who have no knowledge of how to teach and their entire modules are forged from online tutorials with a WIT logo slapped at the top.

They need a complete revamp of the staff.

Musicman2000

neilk32 wrote: »

This is exactly the problem. They have lecturers who are there for 20 years who have no knowledge of how to teach and their entire modules are forged from online tutorials with a WIT logo slapped at the top.

They need a complete revamp of the staff.

Agree 100% with Neill. I’m completing a degree and on work experience at the moment. I’ve learned more in work experience than I did in the last 2 - 3 years. Its shocking that half the modules I have completed will be of no help to me what so ever in the industry really frustrating after paying thousands for a piece of paper that is probably going to be worth nothing to me.

O Riain

Musicman2000 wrote: »

Agree 100% with Neill. I’m completing a degree and on work experience at the moment. I’ve learned more in work experience than I did in the last 2 - 3 years. Its shocking that half the modules I have completed will be of no help to me what so ever in the industry really frustrating after paying thousands for a piece of paper that is probably going to be worth nothing to me.

As is the case with every college course ever. Not unique to W.I.T.

Musicman2000

O Riain wrote: »

As is the case with every college course ever. Not unique to W.I.T.

Oh exactly not just W.I.T. It would make sense if colleges and companies sat down together and designed courses that are useful to the student and the companies themselves. Not just something slapped together by some academic that has never worked in the real world and has had their head stuck in a book all their lives. As I mentioned above the Manager over myself said he would rather take someone with 5 years experience than some graduate out of college. It says it all really.

Max Powers

O Riain wrote: »

As is the case with every college course ever. Not unique to W.I.T.

so true. I have been to 3 different 3rd level colleges and its the same in all of them. no substitute for real world experience

redtelephone

Musicman2000 wrote: »

Oh exactly not just W.I.T. It would make sense if colleges and companies sat down together and designed courses that are useful to the student and the companies themselves. Not just something slapped together by some academic that has never worked in the real world and has had their head stuck in a book all their lives. As I mentioned above the Manager over myself said he would rather take someone with 5 years experience than some graduate out of college. It says it all really.

Do you mean companies should just organise training courses? Surely that would work only in a limited way?

Musicman2000

redtelephone wrote: »

Do you mean companies should just organise training courses? Surely that would work only in a limited way?

No not organize them that would be down to the third level institute but have an input on course material, modules etc. that are going to be useful to the student in the industry.

Hijpo

Should be looked at now with this technology park that frisby supposedly has in the pipeline for the old glass factory.

Digital Society

Musicman2000 wrote: »

No not organize them that would be down to the third level institute but have an input on course material, modules etc. that are going to be useful to the student in the industry.

But then your just being trained as some kind of Company brainwashed robot.

Its virtually impossible to train 400 IT people for the same type of job and expect them to just walk into said job. Do you not think a company will just pay peanuts as the person is capable of nothing else and there's 399 to replace him?

All the modules have use in some jobs. What you dont think is useful for you could have been really useful for someone else and vice versa.

Definitely could do with an overhaul but thats just not feasible.

7upfree

neilk32 wrote: »

I think this is a bit of a conspiracy theory, as somebody attending the college it's simply not good enough.

When Waterford people look for equality it's a conspiracy theory. But when other cities do it then it's classed as protest. Micheal Martin and CIT come to mind during the "upgrading" of WRTC to IT status.

Musicman2000

Digital Society wrote: »

But then your just being trained as some kind of Company brainwashed robot.

Its virtually impossible to train 400 IT people for the same type of job and expect them to just walk into said job. Do you not think a company will just pay peanuts as the person is capable of nothing else and there's 399 to replace him?

All the modules have use in some jobs. What you dont think is useful for you could have been really useful for someone else and vice versa.

Definitely could do with an overhaul but thats just not feasible.

Some kind of brainwashed robot?:) At the end of the day you are going threw college to be trained as a brain washed robot. The best experience you will ever get is on the job I’ve being there. At the moment the majority of IT courses in WIT are all programming based in some format or another so that would be 400 IT based programmers, which companies are crying out for.

I don’t agree with you on all modules will be useful, some maybe but other modules are a complete and utter waste of time they are just in place to fill time. When other useful modules could be thought.

But I do agree a serious overhaul is needed if it is to become a Technical University.

Max Powers

noticed a couple of headlines from govt heads such as Kenny and R. Quinn (see WLR news page today) saying things like - 'not happy with speed of Tech Uni of SE progress' or ' its up to WIT and Carlow'.....anyone have an insight into how merger and application process is actually going. Not hearing much and in the vacuum you fear others are going to be first to achieve it. Are they working well together etc etc???

BBM77

Max Powers wrote: »

noticed a couple of headlines from govt heads such as Kenny and R. Quinn (see WLR news page today) saying things like - 'not happy with speed of Tech Uni of SE progress' or ' its up to WIT and Carlow'.....anyone have an insight into how merger and application process is actually going. Not hearing much and in the vacuum you fear others are going to be first to achieve it. Are they working well together etc etc???

Quite frankly I’d be happier if the whole merger fell apart. Its turned into the usual removing things is progress that Waterford gets from the government. Alaa moving the IDA regional headquarters to Cork and as we can all see years later that's turned out wonderfully.

The News and Stars Phoenix column made a great point lately. At the same time as millions is being spent to put DIT on one campus they are going to split WIT into god knows how many parts not even in the same city.

fricatus

BBM77 wrote: »

The News and Stars Phoenix column made a great point lately. At the same time as millions is being spent to put DIT on one campus they are going to split WIT into god knows how many parts not even in the same city.

I also read an article some time ago that said that small multi-campus universities underperformed on a lot of metrics compared to similar-sized unis located on a single campus. No idea where I read it though, so I can't provide a link.

Make no mistake: the government are not doing this because it's international best practice - they're doing it because it makes sense from someone's point of view politically, be that the existing universities, Phil Hogan, or whoever else we might suspect of skullduggery!

If it made so much sense, then why aren't Maynooth and DCU merging?

comeraghs

There should be a major push right noe for WIT to be upgraded and Carlow can join when they reach that level.

This must happen before the next election. It should be the first act of the new City & County council to demand it.

Sully

Max Powers wrote: »

noticed a couple of headlines from govt heads such as Kenny and R. Quinn (see WLR news page today) saying things like - 'not happy with speed of Tech Uni of SE progress' or ' its up to WIT and Carlow'.....anyone have an insight into how merger and application process is actually going. Not hearing much and in the vacuum you fear others are going to be first to achieve it. Are they working well together etc etc???

Was told a few years back from the Student Union at the time that issues were with both colleges and that's holding things up

Doylers

Musicman2000 wrote: »

Some kind of brainwashed robot?:) At the end of the day you are going threw college to be trained as a brain washed robot. The best experience you will ever get is on the job I’ve being there. At the moment the majority of IT courses in WIT are all programming based in some format or another so that would be 400 IT based programmers, which companies are crying out for.

I don’t agree with you on all modules will be useful, some maybe but other modules are a complete and utter waste of time they are just in place to fill time. When other useful modules could be thought.

But I do agree a serious overhaul is needed if it is to become a Technical University.

In a WIT course at the minute, I can guarantee next week 75% of my class will fail programming when the results come out. The place needs a massive shake up IMO from modules being very course specific to having decent lecturers not just someone who they can get when needed

fiachr_a

Doylers wrote: »

In a WIT course at the minute, I can guarantee next week 75% of my class will fail programming when the results come out. The place needs a massive shake up IMO from modules being very course specific to having decent lecturers not just someone who they can get when needed

If they fail then they're not suited to this area of IT. Programming can be self-taught and courses can only do some of the work. Some graduates with philosophy degrees would make better software developers than most students on these Mickey Mouse IT courses.

Doylers

fiachr_a wrote: »

If they fail then they're not suited to this area of IT. Programming can be self-taught and courses can only do some of the work. Some graduates with philosophy degrees would make better software developers than most students on these Mickey Mouse IT courses.

Agree completely with you some people are programmers some are not I think its a very specific type of person you need to be. Sadly however subjects at least in my course(forensics) are not optional(until 4th year) so were forced to try be programmers when were not.

b0ardsUser

Doylers wrote: »

In a WIT course at the minute, I can guarantee next week 75% of my class will fail programming when the results come out. The place needs a massive shake up IMO from modules being very course specific to having decent lecturers not just someone who they can get when needed

The remaining 25% will pass because they learned the material. I don't believe WIT needs a massive shakeup, there are some fantastic lecturers in the Computer and Science department who are suited for the modules taught.

Doylers wrote: »

Agree completely with you some people are programmers some are not I think its a very specific type of person you need to be. Sadly however subjects at least in my course(forensics) are not optional(until 4th year) so were forced to try be programmers when were not.

I'm assuming you're talking about the course BSc Hons in Computer Forensics and Security? If so, I think it's crazy you expect to go through that course without the need for learning programming.