NAMA owned property to be demolished at the cost of 70 jobs.

MadsL

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/popular-dublin-bakery-vows-to-fight-demolition-30007675.html

Not content with the massive exercise in dereliction for profit, and the demolition of The Royal Dublin Hotel before settling planning for the shopping centre, Chartered Land now plan to demolish a thriving business.

What a clusterfuck, enough is enough surely? Is it time to tell Joe O'Reilly's company to go jump in the Liffey?

Gummy Panda

Bar fx buckleys, it's the only good shop on that street. Why a shopping centre when ilac is across from them?

lazygal

I never had a good experience there. Awful, awful service and food was only ok. Sad to see jobs going bug I don't get the appeal of the bakery at all.

Guy:Incognito

So 70 jobs going and 0 being created, yeah op?

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Can't wait to see this fully automated shopping center that'll spring from the ground overnight employing absolutely no one in the process.

Stavros Murphy

Happily, no-one is going to do the demolition work, no-one is going to do the rebuilding and no-one is going to work in the new center. The entire process is going to create 0 jobs, and be done using the powers of Ju-Ju Magic. Best keep the bakery. Sure no way can it move somewhere else - all the staff are concreted in place. And Moore st is so gorgeous anyway, just as it is. Progress, down with that sort of thing.

Gatling

Loose 70 Jobs in a bakery,
Create several hundred construction jobs
Add several hundred retail position's ,
That have been planned long before Nama or the banking crisis ,

Much ado about nothing really

anncoates

I like PB. No doubt they'll set up elsewhere. They'll be able to have their pick of empty premises elsewhere in the city. Might even be a blessing in disguise.

Arthur Beesley

MadsL wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/popular-dublin-bakery-vows-to-fight-demolition-30007675.html

Not content with the massive exercise in dereliction for profit, and the demolition of The Royal Dublin Hotel before settling planning for the shopping centre, Chartered Land now plan to demolish a thriving business.

What a clusterfuck, enough is enough surely? Is it time to tell Joe O'Reilly's company to go jump in the Liffey?

Are they just demolishing it for the sake of it, as per your title?

Any chance they could move? Or is the only location suitable for a bakery in Dublin?

I don't suppose there will be construction jobs or retail jobs.

Arthur Beesley

Down with progress, Joe.

uck51js9zml2yt

There was talk last week of them being offered an alternative location

Valetta

MadsL wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/popular-dublin-bakery-vows-to-fight-demolition-30007675.html

Not content with the massive exercise in dereliction for profit, and the demolition of The Royal Dublin Hotel before settling planning for the shopping centre, Chartered Land now plan to demolish a thriving business.

What a clusterfuck, enough is enough surely? Is it time to tell Joe O'Reilly's company to go jump in the Liffey?

Not true.

They are consistently loss making.

From a subscription based online CRO report...


2012 2011 2010
shareholders' funds(678) (238) (35)

Triangla

Could Paris Bakery not just rent a unit in the new shopping centre?

Surely they can find somewhere to locate a pop up shop between now and then.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

MadsL wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/popular-dublin-bakery-vows-to-fight-demolition-30007675.html

Not content with the massive exercise in dereliction for profit, and the demolition of The Royal Dublin Hotel before settling planning for the shopping centre, Chartered Land now plan to demolish a thriving business.

What a clusterfuck, enough is enough surely? Is it time to tell Joe O'Reilly's company to go jump in the Liffey?

Its not like the building is going to be torn down, and they are not going to get compensated for it. they will be moved to another location. That way everybody wins.

anncoates

Thankfully, anyway, there's a number of other eateries on the street in which to relax after you've bought your smuggled cigarettes and got your stolen phone unlocked.

They moved in after planning permission had been granted and on a relatively short lease. They can't be surprised that the owner wants to progress the plans.

humanji

Weren't they going to have to close for a while anyway, once the restoration of the building next door got underway?

anncoates

Valetta wrote: »

Not true.

They are consistently loss making.

From a subscription based online CRO report...


2012 2011 2010
shareholders' funds(678) (238) (35)

Can''t see the accounts but they're definitely thriving in terms of being busy from what I can see. Maybe, like some businesses, they're still trying to get past start-up costs and whatnot.

That's why a move to somewhere else might actually benefit the business because - even though I like Moore Street - it's probably not to everybody's taste.

Valetta

anncoates wrote: »

Can''t see the accounts but they're definitely thriving in terms of being busy from what I can see. Maybe, like some businesses, they're still trying to get past start-up costs and whatnot.

That's why a move to somewhere else might actually benefit the business because - even though I like Moore Street - it's probably not to everybody's taste.

Fair point.

It does annoy me when the media or vested interests (ISME I'm looking at you) try and sensationalise things when any mention of small businesses in trouble is made.

"The banks are not lending to small businesses".

Well, yes they are. But to viable businesses, not loss making ones who are looking to the banks to keep them afloat.

A busy business means nothing if they are not making a profit.

Given that the owner seems to owe money to NAMA we should be encouraging the redevelopment to help the recovery of the money owed.

Robbo

Valetta wrote: »

Not true.

They are consistently loss making.

From a subscription based online CRO report...


2012 2011 2010
shareholders' funds(678) (238) (35)

They were also in a bit of bother with their accountants trying to wind the company up last year. Source and further info on figures.

Personally, I love the food their but can't stand the service and cramped conditions. It would benefit from a modern building.

Also, I know we all like a good sensational thread title but can we not just have "5 Year Commercial Lease to end, not be renewed"?

MadsL

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So 70 jobs going and 0 being created, yeah op?

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Can't wait to see this fully automated shopping center that'll spring from the ground overnight employing absolutely no one in the process.

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Happily, no-one is going to do the demolition work, no-one is going to do the rebuilding and no-one is going to work in the new center. The entire process is going to create 0 jobs, and be done using the powers of Ju-Ju Magic. Best keep the bakery. Sure no way can it move somewhere else - all the staff are concreted in place. And Moore st is so gorgeous anyway, just as it is. Progress, down with that sort of thing.

Gatling wrote: »

Loose 70 Jobs in a bakery,
Create several hundred construction jobs
Add several hundred retail position's ,
That have been planned long before Nama or the banking crisis ,

Much ado about nothing really

How many real jobs (other than a bloke driving a wrecking ball) did the demolition of the Royal Dublin Hotel in 2009 create?? Chartered Land (aka Joe O'Reilly) are one of NAMA's greatest debtors. They haven't created jobs, they have had a fairly significant hand in destroying Ireland's prosperity.

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

Down with progress, Joe.

The history of the Moore Street development is a exercise in huge levels of corruption, dereliction for profit and outright lies told to leaseholders. Why is Moore St such a kip, because developers have been driving standards down since 1998 as they know the value of the land.

Short term rents equals an excuse for 'redevelopement and progress'.

Included in that progress is scant regard for the place that Moore Street plays in the birth of the Irish nation, a place in history that should be celebrated and protected, not dumped on with a temple to crass commercialism and failed greed.

Deleted User wrote: »

They moved in after planning permission had been granted and on a relatively short lease. They can't be surprised that the owner wants to progress the plans.

The owner is 49% The Irish State. NAMA.

Deleted User wrote: »

Given that the owner seems to owe money to NAMA we should be encouraging the redevelopment to help the recovery of the money owed.

'Seems to owe money' is an understament. Try €3 billion! And now the owner IS NAMA.

I cannot see why O'Connell Street needs a shopping centre, in a recession with no flagship anchor tenant. 100s of units that will lie empty or create and even bigger set of hair extension shops and mobile unlocking shops.

I'm baffled that people appear to have learnt nothing from the greed of these Golden Circle developers.

I await the inevitable double dip false recovery bubble in Ireland over the next 5 years.

Guy:Incognito

MadsL wrote: »

The history of the Moore Street development is a exercise in huge levels of corruption, dereliction for profit and outright lies told to leaseholders. Why is Moore St such a kip, because developers have been driving standards down since 1998 as they know the value of the land.
.

The value of the land as what? Development maybe? What profit lies in dereliction without eventual development? Cos here we are at the development stage.

At the end of the day, the person or company that owns the land calls the shots, as it should be. If they want a bakery out then once any legally binding agreements (rents and the like) are no more legally binding or can be bought out, then its bye bye time.

MadsL wrote: »

I cannot see why O'Connell Street needs a shopping centre, in a recession with no flagship anchor tenant. 100s of units that will lie empty or create and even bigger set of hair extension shops and mobile unlocking shops.
.

Yeah, **** future planning, lets wait till we need the space next week, sure we can throw the buildings up in a few days.

if a nice new shiney shopping centre is left empty then the grimey ****hole that's there now hasn't much hope anyway. Just because something is old doesn't mean it necessarily should be protected forever. Theres plenty of rundown old ****holes full of junkies and squatters that cant get sorted because of stupid preservation orders like the house next door to me that I eventually had to take action myself and chuck them out and board up.

MadsL

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The value of the land as what? Development maybe? What profit lies in dereliction without eventual development? Cos here we are at the development stage.

The point is that the dereliction was caused, and whilst plenty of people have called DCC and Chartered Land out on the dodgy deals and CPOs that were handed over to CL down the years, all with lies being told to councillors that they would lose their own homes in a lawsuit if they voted against it. The sheer scale of the corruption and hubris (€3 billion owed!) is staggering.

And yet here we are in 2014 with the same people clinging to this deal, supported by the State (€200k a year I think), debts unimportant, no criminal charges brought against a member of the Anglo Golden Circle, business as usual.

All this on one of the most significant sites of the Rising, the site of the surrender, with less than two years before the Centenary celebrations.

I feel physically sick at the thought of people describing allowing these people to proceed in their plans as "progress". Ugggh.

At the end of the day, the person or company that owns the land calls the shots, as it should be. If they want a bakery out then once any legally binding agreements (rents and the like) are no more legally binding or can be bought out, then its bye bye time.

The Irish People own the land now, efectively, through NAMA.

Guy:Incognito

MadsL wrote: »

T



The Irish People own the land now, efectively, through NAMA.

And Irish people, through NAMA, are getting a nice shiney shopping centre that they like.

SimonQuinlank

That whole area of Moore Street,Parnell Street,the adjacent laneways and the old Carlton Cinema site on Upper O'Connell Street badly need the regeneration.

Valetta

I note the opening post has been amended.

Maybe the tactic of pulling at the heartstrings by bringing in the red herring of the "viable business" didn't work.

MadsL

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Yeah, **** future planning, lets wait till we need the space next week, sure we can throw the buildings up in a few days.

Planning, planning???!!?? If you had any clue as to the clusterfuck this development has been all the way back to 1998, the insane plans to 'slide' the Carlton cinema along OCS, the corruption and sheer scale of the mismanagement of this by DCC you would not use the word planning.

if a nice new shiney shopping centre is left empty then the grimey ****hole that's there now hasn't much hope anyway. Just because something is old doesn't mean it necessarily should be protected forever. Theres plenty of rundown old ****holes full of junkies and squatters that cant get sorted because of stupid preservation orders like the house next door to me that I eventually had to take action myself and chuck them out and board up.

You are aware that much of the street is not just 'old' but is in fact a National Monument? Does that mean nothing?

MadsL

Valetta wrote: »

I note the opening post has been amended.

Maybe the tactic of pulling at the heartstrings by bringing in the red herring of the "viable business" didn't work.

No it hasn't. Not by me (the OP) anyway. What do you feel has changed in the OP??

SimonQuinlank wrote: »

That whole area of Moore Street,Parnell Street,the adjacent laneways and the old Carlton Cinema site on Upper O'Connell Street badly need the regeneration.

No-one doubts that. A good question is however how a former member of the Gardai manages to run a public casino and slot machine arcade in full view.

MadsL

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

And Irish people, through NAMA, are getting a nice shiney shopping centre that they like.

Nauseating attitude.

Reward those that bankrupt you, fuck those that died for you.

Astonishing.

MadsL

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/04/01/staying-in-tonight-3/

Striking paragraph here about how CL were given €250k by NAMA to gain ministerial consent.

So in 2007, the State declared 14-17, Moore St a national monument and four years later, in 2011, the State paid €250,000 towards an application for consent to demolish a national monument.

The Diabolical Monocle

Place needs to be renovated one way or the other.
Museum, shopping center, one giant bakery, jobs or not.

Fvcking dump. Looks like it belongs in the slums of Delhi.

MadsL

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

Place needs to be renovated one way or the other.
Museum, shopping center, one giant bakery, jobs or not.

Fvcking dump. Looks like it belongs in the slums of Delhi.

It is meant to. So that you agree to development at any cost.

Dereliction by design, all over Dublin in the 'boom'.

The Diabolical Monocle

MadsL wrote: »

It is meant to. So that you agree to development at any cost.

Dereliction by design, all over Dublin in the 'boom'.

lol - a needlessly filthy street is a good thing now ??

suicide_circus

went to that paris bakery twice. we were treated like muck and the food wasn't that impressive.

MadsL

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

lol - a needlessly filthy street is a good thing now ??

You totally missed what I said.

A common 2000s era tactic was to buy up properties and shop leases, kick out the long term decent businesses, let the shops to low quality short term tenants, drive down the tone of the area, do no maintenance, let the roofs leak, let the place rot. Ideally get it demolished as it was unsafe.

Lash in a 'masterplan' for redevelopment and 'regeneration' of the area.

The area would not need 'regeneration' had you not destroyed it, but you gain popular support because 'something is better than nothing' and 'it will bring jobs'.

Have we learned nothing?

MadsL

suicide_circus wrote: »

went to that paris bakery twice. we were treated like muck and the food wasn't that impressive.

We should knock it on principle then. How very dare they.

oppenheimer1

MadsL wrote: »

You totally missed what I said.

A common 2000s era tactic was to buy up properties and shop leases, kick out the long term decent businesses, let the shops to low quality short term tenants, drive down the tone of the area, do no maintenance, let the roofs leak, let the place rot. Ideally get it demolished as it was unsafe.

Lash in a 'masterplan' for redevelopment and 'regeneration' of the area.

The area would not need 'regeneration' had you not destroyed it, but you gain popular support because 'something is better than nothing' and 'it will bring jobs'.

Have we learned nothing?

What do you suggest they do to Moore St now that the deterioration has already happened. Moore St was a kip long before chartered land ever came about

The Diabolical Monocle

MadsL wrote: »

You totally missed what I said.

A common 2000s era tactic was to buy up properties and shop leases, kick out the long term decent businesses, let the shops to low quality short term tenants, drive down the tone of the area, do no maintenance, let the roofs leak, let the place rot. Ideally get it demolished as it was unsafe.

Lash in a 'masterplan' for redevelopment and 'regeneration' of the area.

The area would not need 'regeneration' had you not destroyed it, but you gain popular support because 'something is better than nothing' and 'it will bring jobs'.

Have we learned nothing?

Whatever the nasty tactics being used are, they're nothing to do with my initial post.

That place looks like a shthole.

Fight it out for a solution or find a compromise ...whatever the end result the fvcking place needs to be cleaned up. Fast.

MadsL

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

Whatever the nasty tactics being used are, they're nothing to do with my initial post.

That place looks like a shthole.

Fight it out for a solution or find a compromise ...whatever the end result the fvcking place needs to be cleaned up. Fast.

Here's the museum proposal from relatives of the 1916 participants, including a proposal for the frontages of Moore St.
http://1916rebellionmuseum.com/

As they point out there are 776 days to the Centenary, yet the State and DCC seem content to leave the restoration in the hands of grubby profiteers.

Imagine the Texans doing this to the Alamo, the Americans to Gettysburg or the Scots to Culloden. Unthinkable.

MadsL

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

What do you suggest they do to Moore St now that the deterioration has already happened. Moore St was a kip long before chartered land ever came about

http://1916rebellionmuseum.com/

And before Chartered Land, another developer was at the same tactics - back to 1998.

Stavros Murphy

MadsL wrote: »

How many real jobs (other than a bloke driving a wrecking ball) did the demolition of the Royal Dublin Hotel in 2009 create?? Chartered Land (aka Joe O'Reilly) are one of NAMA's greatest debtors. They haven't created jobs, they have had a fairly significant hand in destroying Ireland's prosperity.

I'm baffled that people appear to have learnt nothing from the greed of these Golden Circle developers.

I await the inevitable double dip false recovery bubble in Ireland over the next 5 years.

One of the bosses of Chartered Land is a long standing mate of mine, a dreadfully decent man who lives in a small house and has a modest lifestyle. Always did. And he has created work for thousands over the years as well as paying millions in tax. How much does Dundrum generate?? Or the Grand canal theatre?? Or the Pavillions?? And they're paying back their loans. They've worked with Nama from day one to service their debts. You mouth off on the internet, having created jack-sh1t zero in your life apart from red-tape and money for your own pocket.

Hootanany

How many Subbies did he screw?

MadsL

Trailer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdWKp3RAUTU

Documentary revealing the corruption surrounding the development

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cx0Kah7dE80

Stavros Murphy

Hootanany wrote: »

How many Subbies did he screw?

No idea. Never screwed me, that's the subbie I look out for. Devil take the hindmost for the rest. That's Construction, always was, always will be. It's a rough old game, you need to be a big boy to play it.

MadsL

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

No idea. Never screwed me, that's the subbie I look out for. Devil take the hindmost for the rest. That's Construction, always was, always will be. It's a rough old game, you need to be a big boy to play it.

Watch the documentary above and then come back to me on how CL are saviours of the Irish nation.

Hootanany

But he's your mate that's a bit different isn't it?

Stavros Murphy

MadsL wrote: »

Watch the documentary above and then come back to me on how CL are saviours of the Irish nation.

Never said they were. I said one of CLs bosses is a mate and a decent person. That's just my personal position, like it or not. He gave me my break and put me on my way. You slag ahead, that's your right as a keyboard warrior. To me, they're one of the soundest companies going. Note the "to me" bit, it's relevant. Others may well hate them. That's their business. You think what you like, not two sh1ts will I give.

MadsL

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Never said they were. I said one of CLs bosses is a mate and a decent person. That's just my personal position, like it or not. He gave me my break and put me on my way. You slag ahead, that's your right as a keyboard warrior. To me, they're one of the soundest companies going. Note the "to me" bit, it's relevant. Others may well hate them. That's their business. You think what you like, not two sh1ts will I give.

Are you prepared to watch the documentary? Or are your eyes shut tight?

Stavros Murphy

MadsL wrote: »

Are you prepared to watch the documentary? Or are your eyes shut tight?

It can be a necessarily rough business sometimes. There you go. What do you want? A round of applause for noticing? Shy bairns get nowt.

blackdog2

Lets throw more shops into an area full of shops with shopping centre's around within metres. Fantastic. Redevelopment would be nice, but maybe not into this.